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 "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER

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Zamantha
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:52 am

DebS aka Seagull gave me permission to post her findings.
Fresno Bee
Sat. Dec 20 1969
Page 1

'Zodiac": 10 Are Marked For Murder

SAN JOSE (AP)- The Highway Patrol station here reports receiving a telehone call from a man identifying himself as "the Zodiac" and threatening to kill five patrolmen and a family of five by Monday.

Sgt. Robert Rengstorif said he took the call at 10:10 p.m. Friday from a man who told dispatcher Shirley Searcy he was "the Zodiac" and wanted to speak to the man in charge.

Rengstorif quoted the man as saying:
"I am going to kill five of you officers and a family of five between now and Monday."

The patrolman said the call was not recorded and there is no way of knowing who it came from.

A killer who calls himself Zodiac first struck a year ago in Vallejo and has killed a total of five persons.

His last known communication was a month ago in two letters addressed to the San Francisco Chronicle.

I looked for an article about this phone call in the SF Chronicle and the Press Democrat but wasn't able to find one.
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:45 am

Nachtsider wrote:
The handwriting on the July Fairfield letter looks a hell of a lot like that on the April 1978 letter...
Well spotted, Nacht. The 1978 letter also seems pretty close to the Fairfield Dec 69 to me aswell. The word "speaking" is very close IMO, and the way the letters slant sometimes right, sometimes straight. Letter spacing too. ....How ironic if Fairfield got his nemesis "city pig toschi" into trouble with this?

Here's a sample of both (Note: I have increased the contrast on the 69 letter to aid the comparison).
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:47 am

Thanks, Rufus! I'm only using that 'Turn myself in ok' letter for comparison, though - I'm not sure if all those Fairfield letters were prepared by the same person. The writing on the one you posted strikes me as different from that in the one I presented - I know they have similar layout in that they both contain ciphers, but my eyes still draw a different conclusion...
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:55 am

Hi-

Zodiac never, ever to my knowledge sent a Z symbol, either as a signature or embedded in the text of a letter, that was a "12 o'clock" circle like the big one on this letter. His were either "one o'clock" circles (signatures) or "eleven o'clock" circles (embedded in a few letters). I wrote a piece on this in about 2000 or so on Jake's old site.

Just an observation.

He did use some "12 o'clock circles" in the address of the Badlands letter but those were not crossed circles. He was pretty consistent with the elevens and ones.


http://www.zodiackiller.com/Mikado1.html

Embedded circles always open and close to the left of the vertical bar of the cross.


http://www.zodiackiller.com/StineLetter.html

Example of a signature crossed circle at 1 o'clock


http://www.zodiackiller.com/CitizenCard2.html

Oddball 12 o-clock circles on Badlands card.

Mike
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:13 am

Clearly there is something different about the writing in the Fairfield letters than most other Z communication of that time. As the FBI puts it, they see "distortion" and say they were not "written as freely". But they also note matching characteristics and say the Fairfield letters "may have" been prepared by the Zodiac, which is exactly the same langauge the FBI analyst used in regard to the Riverside writing - a lukewarm endorsement. Graysmith wrote these off as copycats.

Was Zodiac in a difficult position when he wrote these letters? Was he traveling in a car, writing on his knee, as opposed to sitting at a desk? Was he intentionally altering his style, as he had done and would do again? Or are these just the work of a very busy and perhaps insane hoaxer?

What leans me towards perhaps being real is something I don't see the critics here or on other boards addressing. If the Fairfield letter is fake, why does the cry for help match what came 13 days later in a confirmed Zodiac letter, the Belli letter, which also asked for help? Just coincidence? Lucky guess?

Also at the time of the Fairfield letters Zodiac had not made a point of threatening police, other than a joke that if cops believed his bus plan they deserved to have "holes in their heads". Both Fairfield letters threaten police - and in the 4/20/70 confirmed Zodiac letter, Z says "there is more glory in killing a cop than a (kid)". And Zodiac later hinted he killed Officer Radetich. Once again, the hoaxer made a lucky guess in predicting Zodiac would explicitly threaten police?

Also, the letter threatens to kill 9 people in Sacramento, and threatens lives of government employees. Two of the next probable Zodiac victims, Hakari and Bennallack, were Sacramento residents, and Bennallack a government employee, a court reporter. So, for a third time, the hoaxer got lucky?

These may well be fake, but I think these issues are serious signs pointing that they could be real, and I have yet to see the critics, here or on other boards, address them.

If the Fairfield/Sacramento letters are real, was Z trying to create a new (false) persona? To make police think he was a Fairfield or Sacramento resident, into astrology, obsessed with killing cops, mentally ill and wanting help (that theme of which was continued in the Belli letter)?

Also good to keep in mind Z had many different styles.




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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:55 am

I see some similarities between the Fairfield letters and the 1974 Zodiac SLA letter, which is a confirmed Z letter.





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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:59 am

AK Wilks wrote:
.......Also good to keep in mind Z had many different styles.........
Yes AK. We can't say for sure which was Z's writing.

Unless a piece of Stine's shirt was included or suchlike, we could find ways to doubt & debate pretty much any "later" Z communique. To some of us untrained oafs, even the Belli letter would probably look too neat if it wasn't for the shirt swatch.

Good to keep an open mind on Fairfield whether it's Z, another lunatic or just a troublemaking cid. It promotes some healthy debates and may lead to some fresh thinking. ... keep it up, folks.
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:09 pm

Rufus T Firefly wrote:
One possibility I suppose is that Fairfield was the Berryessa copycat . All a copycat needed was the symbol, a hood and the previous crime dates. Admittedly highly speculative.

Idea I thought this to RTF! So, maybe this person did in a sense think he was "Zodiac"--his own Zodiac. (yes highly speculative, but damn interesting)

***

I still say things like this could be why Zodiac finally sent undenibale proof. Stines shirt. He was tired of the bs. He goes on to say he won't tell us anymore, so I don't see this being from Zodiac at all. He was beyong this. But he's going to resort back to this stuff--very "beginner" Nah...(imo)

***

Zodiac was a coward who killed young people. He never killed a cop. Were cops on this new list killed? My guess in no. He didn't like police, that is a given (or at least he wanted us to think that), but if that is who he truly hated, why then didn't he kill cops?

He had to PROVE Stine, yet vaguely hints at the possibility he killed A COP--his greatest nemisis? I think he'd very much rub our noses in that one! But, he didn't admit it outright--in case the real perp was found. He was a coward who killed young people. He could have gone after cops....but he didn't.

No doubt many fake letters were mailed in. Some were better than others. I truly wonder how Zodiac felt about this? I bet good and bad. Takes some of the heat off of him--someone else could have gotten caught and busted for his crimes, but yet angry in the fact that someone was stealing his thunder.
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:27 pm


For tahoe and others who think these Fairfield letters probable or definite fakes, how do you explain this?

Something very interesting I just noticed.

It seems likely either all the Fairfield letters are real, or all are fake.

Look at the 12/20/69 Zodiac letter to Belli:




Now look at the 12/7/69 Zodiac letter from Fairfield:



We know the 12/20/69 letter is real, confirmed handwriting and a bit of the Stine shirt.

So if the Fairfield letters are all fake, from a hoaxer, how is it that the langauge on the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter - "I just need HELP" - matches up so well with the langauge and pose of the 12/20/69 letter - "please HELP me"?

To my knowledge, no Z letter prior to 12/20/69 mentioned him needing "HELP". All prior letters were angry, confident, taunting. So how did the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter know to ask for "HELP", as we know the real Zodiac did just 13 days later?


And there is little doubt that whoever wrote the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter also wrote this 12/16/69 Fairfield letter - both start with "I just", both threaten to kill cops, and the handwriting and symbols seem the same:





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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:29 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
So if the Fairfield letters are all fake, from a hoaxer, how is it that the langauge on the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter - "I just need HELP" - matches up so well with the langauge and pose of the 12/20/69 letter - "please HELP me"?

To my knowledge, no Z letter prior to 12/20/69 mentioned him needing "HELP". All prior letters were angry, confident, taunting. So how did the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter know to ask for "HELP", as we know the real Zodiac did just 13 days later?

And there is little doubt that whoever wrote the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter also wrote this 12/16/69 Fairfield letter - both start with "I just", both threaten to kill cops, and the handwriting and symbols seem the same:[/size]

Didn't the fake Zodiac caller to the Jim Dunbar show ask "for help"? I believe this was in late October of '69...??

Was this 12/7/69 letter published?

Obviously too the 12/7/69 letter has bits of the 340 in it--the cipher begins and ends with the 340. To me this reeks of a copy-cat. But, for those of you who believe this is Zodiac--maybe it's clue for you!

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 "Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple."  ....Dr. Suess
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:38 pm

morf13 wrote:
....Dont get me wrong, the writer of the bleeding knife tried to alter their writing, even the FBI report states that...

Curious as to where morf. I see they mention Qc34 & Qc35 as they "probably contain some distortion". Did I miss those?
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:39 pm

AK = So if the Fairfield letters are all fake, from a hoaxer, how is it that the langauge on the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter - "I just need HELP" - matches up so well with the langauge and pose of the 12/20/69 letter - "please HELP me"?

To my knowledge, no Z letter prior to 12/20/69 mentioned him needing "HELP". All prior letters were angry, confident, taunting. So how did the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter know to ask for "HELP", as we know the real Zodiac did just 13 days later?

And there is little doubt that whoever wrote the 12/7/69 Fairfield letter also wrote this 12/16/69 Fairfield letter - both start with "I just", both threaten to kill cops, and the handwriting and symbols seem the same:

Tahoe Q, AK answers:


Didn't the fake Zodiac caller to the Jim Dunbar show ask "for help"? I believe this was in late October of '69...??GOOD POINT, I DON'T KNOW IF THE CALLER SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR HELP, BUT THAT WAS THE TONE OF THE CALL. PERHAPS BOTH A HOAXER AND THE REAL ZODIAC FOLLOWED UP ON THIS FOR THERE OWN REASONS? MAYBE. BUT I AM STILL STRUCK BY THE MATCHING WORDS AND TONE IN THE 12/7 AND 12/20 LETTERS. THE CALLER WAS EXPOSED AS A FAKE, SO WHY WOULD A HOAXER FOLLOW UP ON THAT? AND HOW WOULD HE KNOW THE REAL ZODIAC WOULD ASK FOR HELP 13 DAYS LATER?

Was this 12/7/69 letter published? DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T THINK SO.

Obviously too the 12/7/69 letter has bits of the 340 in it--the cipher begins and ends with the 340. To me this reeks of a copy-cat. But, for those of you who believe this is Zodiac--maybe it's clue for you!I DID A PROPOSED 12/7 SOLUTION A YEAR AGO, I WILL POST IT IN A SEPERATE SECTION
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:16 pm

Again,has anyone or will anyone place a side by side for the THE ,for example, as compared to the '67 Notes sent to Mr.Bates,RSPD and the newspaper there?
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:23 pm


The numbers of the proposed victims is suspicious to me.  Was whoever wrote this trying to insert a secret number in this message?

There are seven numbers.  Was that someone's telephone number in 1969?

316-8398

It is just missing an area code.

In 1969, the area code for San Francisco and Oakland was 415, San Jose was 408, Vallejo, Napa, and Fairfield was 707, and Sacramento was 916.

I called Sandy and we will check whether or not there actually was any such telephone number for any of these area codes in 1969.

Maybe it could even have been a different area code, not necessarily in California.
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:26 pm

Interesting Ricardo.

Rufus T Firefly pointed out "Zodiac" here says he will kill 38 total - and Zodiac claimed 37 victims in one of his last letters.

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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:29 pm

bruce3 wrote:
Again,has anyone or will anyone place a side by side for the THE ,for example, as compared to the '67 Notes sent to Mr.Bates,RSPD and the newspaper there?



"THE" from "Bates had to die" and "THe" from "Bleeding Knife".
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:30 pm

Ricardo wrote:

The numbers of the proposed victims is suspicious to me.  Was whoever wrote this trying to insert a secret number in this message?

There are seven numbers.  Was that someone's telephone number in 1969?

316-8398

It is just missing an area code.

In 1969, the area code for San Francisco and Oakland was 415, San Jose was 408, Vallejo, Napa, and Fairfield was 707, and Sacramento was 916.

I called Sandy and we will check whether or not there actually was any such telephone number for any of these area codes in 1969.

Maybe it could even have been a different area code, not necessarily in California.

Very interesting. Love to see what you find on that.
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:40 pm

morf13 wrote:
Ricardo wrote:

The numbers of the proposed victims is suspicious to me.  Was whoever wrote this trying to insert a secret number in this message?

There are seven numbers.  Was that someone's telephone number in 1969?

316-8398

It is just missing an area code.

In 1969, the area code for San Francisco and Oakland was 415, San Jose was 408, Vallejo, Napa, and Fairfield was 707, and Sacramento was 916.

I called Sandy and we will check whether or not there actually was any such telephone number for any of these area codes in 1969.

Maybe it could even have been a different area code, not necessarily in California.

Very interesting. Love to see what you find on that.


Prefix (323) 316- is primarily in Los Angeles, California, and includes 2,104 phone numbers. Not sure if this was the case back in the late 60's, sometimes prefixes change.

Phone Area Code and Exchange 310-316 Information:
Type: Landline Carrier: Verizon California Inc.-ca (gte)
County: Los Angeles City: Redondo Beach State: California, CA Zip code: 90277 Timezone: Pacific


Also, this one is interesting if you connect it to the FLT555 card, or the Swindles murders, or Nikki Benedict's murder:

(619)-316-8398 - Phone Numbers in San Diego, CA Area-Code 619 - 316
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:04 pm

Ak47!
ThanX!
In the '67 note to the RS police in "THE RE" the first three letters or THE is closer. FYI


True Detective for August 1971 has a photo of the Ghia car door with 'brown paper covering' the wriitng.All photos of Z's writing before the bleeding knife should be checked to see if a composite Z writing could be known to a forger.This includes detective and men's magazines prior to December 15 1969.

I am saying good work morp' again,but we are all just looking at all angles.I say if the FBI had trouble coming to a conclusion then it is not unusual if we do too!It is needful to get everything Z out there for all to see.You did it!
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:05 pm

bruce3 wrote:
Ak47!
ThanX!
In the '67 note to the RS police in "THE RE" the first three letters or THE is closer. FYI


True Detective for August 1971 has a photo of the Ghia car door with 'brown paper covering' the wriitng.All photos of Z's writing before the bleeding knife should be checked to see if a composite Z writing could be known to a forger.This includes detective and men's magazines prior to December 15 1969.

I am saying good work morp' again,but we are all just looking at all angles.I say if the FBI had trouble coming to a conclusion then it is not unusual if we do too!It is needful to get everything Z out there for all to see.You did it!

AGreed!
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:10 pm

I stumbled across something nobody has found.

I was trying to get more information on what the FBI thought of these Fairfield letters.

I found an FBI file were the analyst says that the Belli letter has matches to the 12/7 and 12/16 Fairfield letters, that compared to pre-December Z letters these three have distortion and were not written as freely, but that they have similar characteristics to other Zodiac letters, and that 'one person may have prepared ALL the threatening letters in this matter.'

A VERY SIGNIFICANT FIND!

The FBI analyst gives the same level of endorsement to the Fairfield letters that he gives to the Belli letter.

Look at pages 64, 65 and 70 here:

http://foia.fbi.gov/zodiac/zodiac3.pdf

Can someone save those and post those pages here?

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:22 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
I stumbled across something nobody has found.

I was trying to get more information on what the FBI thought of these Fairfield letters.

I found an FBI file were the analyst says that the Belli letter has matches to the 12/7 and 12/16 Fairfield letters, that compared to pre-December Z letters these three have distortion and were not written as freely, but that they have similar characteristics to other Zodiac letters, and that 'one person may have prepared ALL the threatening letters in this matter.'

A VERY SIGNIFICANT FIND!

The FBI analyst gives the same level of endorsement to the Fairfield letters that he gives to the Belli letter.

Look at pages 64, 65 and 70 here:

http://foia.fbi.gov/zodiac/zodiac3.pdf

Can someone save those and post those pages here?

Thanks!

But AK, how can this be????

Tom V posted this at his forum:

"Another website is circulating what they want you to believe is some kind of new discovery, the "bleeding knife" letter.
I was who originally posted the "Bleeding knife" letter online; it was back in late December 1998. I obtained it from Lt. Bruton of the San Francisco Police Dept. during a research trip to the Bay Area. What I didn't know was that -- for reasons unknown -- Bruton kept in the same binder copies of all correspondences from anyone claiming to be the Zodiac, authenticated or not.
Bruton copied the contents of the binder for me, but it wasn't until my plane ride home that I noticed the "bleeding knife" letter. At first I thought I had a hell of a scoop, an authenticated Zodiac letter that had never been seen...so I shared it online. I'm sure quite a few of the oldtimers remember it.
Well, the "bleeding knife" letter didn't sit well with me, so I researched further and found it was never authenticated. Then I immediately removed it from Zodiackiller.com. In short, that letter is not an authentic Zodiac correspondence, and is nothing new to the Internet. (I bet that other website could "discover" all sorts of new info if they ever bothered to review what was already available at Zodiackiller.com. What's their next big discovery going to be? The Zodiac Shack?)
The other website wants credit for 12-year-old info. I say let's give it to them
."

Nothing new to the internet?? Raise your hands if you have seen that letter anyplace at anytime before 2 days ago. That would have been all over the place on the net, just like lots of other Z stuff. He said some of his "old-timers" at the site might remember it. I know we have some old-timers here from Tom's site. A search of ZK.com new & archived Zodiac message boards revealed ZERO in the way of Bleeding knife stuff, so what gives? I even went back thru the internet way-back machine.


It's not a competition, and as I said earlier, I dont really care who found it, but at least get the truth out there.



Last edited by morf13 on Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:24 pm

Here ya go!

PG 64:



PG 65:



PG 70:

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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:37 pm

But AK, how can this be????

Smile Laughing Razz bounce cheers lol!

Thanks Tahoe27!

Tom V is Sad

Mike B is Sleep

OK who wants to post these over at ZK and ZKF?

Warning - you will not be too popular if you do.

But the truth is important.
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PostSubject: Re: "THIS STATE IS IN TROUBLE" LETTER   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:41 pm

I am not quite understanding what you are saying here...It looks to me as if they had a QDE look at these and s/he said that these letters could not really be associated with other known Zodiac letter/writing specimens...
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