"ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

Seagull wrote:

I will admit to being curious as to why Katana initially started out with a bang then quit posting all together. Katana made a total of 14 posts at ZK, the last one in Oct. 2008. I have seen Katana's name at the bottom of the index page frequently and recently. I can't really say that I buy Katana's stated employment Occupation: Counterintelligence/Counterespionage on their profile page either. Seems to me if your in that business it's not something you advertise. And too many trolls have played that "cop card" in the past!

Well, those may be some good concerns, but let's give Katana the benefit of the doubt. Anyone that knows him, please invite him here, and we can see what he has to say.

Nachtsider wrote:

As I've pointed out before, I doubt Katana and that anonymous poster are the same person. Katana's a military guy (intelligence, I believe), sounding very confident and unafraid every time he posts. This other individual is scared Morton might come after them; I'd bet money they're female.

I invited Katana to join us here ages ago. He hasn't responded at all.

Nach, just curious, where did you come up with the nickname, MORTON?

I've taken to calling our guy 'Morton Leonard Zumwalt'. It's just a pseudonym I pulled out of my rear end.

At the request of ZODE, I called him today, and we had a conversation that lasted about 90 minutes. Besides Zodiac stuff, we discussed lots of other material including the New York Giants plus trains & railroads... But we did talk Zodiac too, which went as follows:


NOTE: After my last phone conversation with ZODE, he had asked me to mail him material that made people suspicious of him possibly being linked to ZODIAC, so he could review it. I sent him mostly the text of the anonymous email from a fellow student that told the backstory of ZODE, along with the text from the Melvin Belli autobiography that mentions ZODE, and the excerpt from the Graysmith book that mentions ZODE. AsI said, the coversation with ZODE lasted about 90 minutes today. About 20 minutes in, I found myself saying "okay, this guy is not the Zodiac", and then he threw me a curve ball which made me scratch my head once again, and say "hmmmm".

*In the anonymous email that tells of ZODE's backstory, it said that ZODE used to make crow sounds or Bird sounds. ZODE confirmed that he used to do that, and then he did the sound over the phone for me.

*In the anon email, it stated that ZODE masturbated in the school bathroom, a point that ZODE strongly denies.

*In the anon email, it stated that ZODE would write with pencils and print instead of use cursive. ZODE stated that the opposite was true, he hated pencils, and wrote a majority of stuff in pen.

*The anon email mentions ZODE wearing glasses during highschool, a point which ZODE denies, and said he didnt use them until around 1970 after eye surgery. By the way, the anon email said that Zode may not be shown wearing glasses in his yearbook ,or his photo may not be in the yearbook. That is simply not true. I have seen 3 separate photos of him (grades 10-12), and he never had glasses in the photos, nor did it seem as though he avided having his photo taken

*ZODE strongly denies ever writing the word ZODIAC on a blackboard, and also denies ever saying the phrase "this is the zodiac speaking", or drawing weird symbols on the board.

*ZODE denies EVER writing a threatening letter to a female student

*In the yearbook photo that has the word ZODIAC written to the left of his photo, he says he did NOT write that next to his name in the yearbook. He never signed anything ZODIAC although he called himself that

*When I asked him about the little symbol that appeared on the Bates letter that looks like his initials, he said he saw the ML, bot not the Z

*I asked Zode if he had ever seen the movies, THE EXORCIST, BADLANDS, THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, or the MIKADO, and he said NO to all. He did spend 5 minutes talking about his "all time favorite" movie- NORTHSIDE 777 starring Jimmy Stewart.

*ZODE did not know what the phrase "SLAVES IN THE AFTERLIFE" referred to.

We came to the part about Melvin Belli, and this is where it got interesting...the curveball....

*Zode described Belli as fascinating, brilliant, and flamboyant, going on to call him "the king of Torts". When I again brought back up teh Belli-Riverside incident, Zode's story changed a bit from the first time we talked. Zode said that he didnt recall police being there, but that Melvin Belli DID IN FACT come up to him and ask him if he was the Zodiac. Zode states that he cant remember how it was said, or the exact conversation, but he then went on to say that the school had used him to get Belli down there for the seminar. I asked him how he knew that, and he said there was some "talk" about it in the school, again he couldnt recall exact details. He insisted he has never been approached by any cops about any crimes.

*I sent ZODE several photos of people from the Zodiac case....all victims and suspects, everyone from Hartnell & Ferrin, to ALA and Rick Marshall, and the mysterious guy in the photo with Darlene. Out of all the people and names, he said one photo looked like a girl that he used to know named CHERI TEEL. The photo he picked out that looked like CHERI TEEL was CHERI JO BATES. At this time, I again asked him if he had ever been to Riverside City college, and he said NEVER. He also said

*Zode said that he used to read (several years ago, 60's or 70's)magazines called STARTLING DETECTIVE & TRUE DETECTIVE

*Zode said he never wrote any letters to the editors of newspapers, but that he himeself was on the newspaper staff at CAL STATE SAN BERNARDINO

*Didnt know anyone with initials R.H. that may have moved to SF area.

*He reiterated the fact that he has been to SAN FRAN several times from the 1950's to now, but NEVER was there in 1969. ALso states he was NEVER in VALLEJO or NAPA. He did mention a relative that lived in SAN RAFAEL.

*When I mentioned that Kathleeen Johns had lived within 2 miles of him at the time she was attacked, he didnt think it was very interesting, and said he wasnt even sure where that street was. (it is actually right off of the same main road that his street is off of, which was weird since this guy has lived there for almost 50 years)

*Lastly, I asked him what he thought motivated Zodiac. His response was "he was probably fueled by his shortcomings & failures with women, and for the rejections he had to face". In the very next sentence, he compared this possibility to his own failures & short comings with women.

*For all you single ladies out there, ZODE is a NY JETS fan, and loves trains & railroads...he is a LEO

In closing, ZODE denies being Zodiac, and claims no knowledge of who Zodiac was. He says he has never harmed or killed anyone. He seems to think that the person that wrote the anon email with all the so-called "details" of Zode's background, was likely a fellow student that wanted to capitalize and stretch the truth adding details to make things sound interesting. In fact, the writer of the anon email seems to have made some errors in their account, and I feel that the anon email is suspect. Unless we hear from REAL & CONFIRMED classmates of Zode's, I have to say that I cant buy him as being Zodiac. I think most of here would call him a "weird" guy, that in some ways fits the profile of a serial killer, but I dont think he is one.

Great update on this strange guy.

The Belli stuff is still giving me a headache. Morton's opinion on what may have motivated Zodiac to kill seems far more perceptive than somebody claiming total ignorance, and the bit about Cheri is odd. But I have to admit, my interest in him is diminishing, if only slightly at this point in time.

It would help, I believe, to get an idea of what his activities/whereabouts were during dates of Zodiac activity, as well as his occupational history. Do you know if he ever served in the military, morf?

Nachtsider wrote:

The Belli stuff is still giving me a headache. Morton's opinion on what may have motivated Zodiac to kill seems far more perceptive than somebody claiming total ignorance, and the bit about Cheri is odd. But I have to admit, my interest in him is diminishing, if only slightly at this point in time.

It would help, I believe, to get an idea of what his activities/whereabouts were during dates of Zodiac activity, as well as his occupational history. Do you know if he ever served in the military, morf?

He was not in the military. He attended college & law school from the mid 60's to early 70's in southern CA. He has had some jobs in security & as a paralegal. I cant find any public documents that place him in the bay area in 1969, and he denies being there, so I dont know if a link can ever be found.

The Belli stuff is interesting, and he seems to have a fondness for Belli. I was concerned that he changed his story a bit after first saying the Belli/Zodiac thing didnt happen, to saying that it did and he cant remember details of the conversation.

The Cheri thing was interesting too.

I still think he is holding some stuff back, or knows more about Z then he is saying, or his past experiences with being involved in the case. But I dont think he is Z. I would say he is "odd", but that doesnt make him a killer. Maybe he is even bending the truth a little himself to get some attention and feel important.

ZODE stated to me that his all time favorite move was CALL NORTHSIDE 777.
Some zyncronicity here, as a film review of the movie ZODIAC compares ZODIAC to CALL NORTHSIDE 777:

"The first of the killer's several cipher letters, filled with exotic-looking and baffling symbols, arrives at the editorial office of The San Francisco Chronicle, and it's here that Fincher's narrative begins in earnest. Zodiac uses the killer's letters as a medium to do something that's rarely been contemplated in American movies, even in the cinema of Sam Fuller—aligning journalists and cops in a common quest, albeit each necessarily deploying a different method. Henry Hathaway manages something of this sort in his elegant 1948 crime drama, Call Northside 777, where, as in Zodiac, the newspaperman (James Stewart) becomes drawn into finding the real killer as he writes his stories. In Northside, the newspaperman's nemesis is the Chicago P.D. and its culture of corruption, with the film concluding that only honest journalism can seek and find the truth. Fincher wants nothing to do with such palliatives. The men behind the desks at the paper (Jake Gyllenhaal's eager, curious editorial cartoonist Robert Graysmith; Robert Downey Jr.'s blithe crime-beat hipster Paul Avery; the police department Mark Ruffalo's dogged Inspector David Toschi; and Anthony Edwards's calmer and suitably named Inspector Bill Armstrong) are blue-collar, pencil-behind-the-ear working guys who arrive at their jobs ready to put in a full eight, ten, or twelve hours. It's their work ethic that makes them allies, and further, it's an alliance borne out of the film's patiently developed observation that the gathering of information doesn't necessarily lead to knowledge; rather, knowledge is realized only from the manner in which the information is gathered."

Forgot to mention, Zode stated that in the late 60s, there was a store in the Riverside/San Bernardino area called THE ZODIAC that sold horoscope type stuff.

I forgot that Graysmith also wrote about ZODE in his sequal, ZODIAC UNMASKED, providing a few more details.
http://books.google.com/books?id=EdBQ9jvHU80C&pg=PT291&dq=%22felt+the+zodiac+may+have+indeed%22&hl=en&ei=S-ayTbKnO4jQsAO-pN3jCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Scroll down to SUNDAY JUNE 8, 1971..(this date should be January 1971 I believe). What I dont get is how they wanted Belli to hear ZODE's voice to see if he was the caller to Belli. By this time, they already knew that the caller to the Dunbar show was NOT zodiac. So was there a 2nd call to Belli?

Graysmith likes to peddle the idea that the very first call made to the Jim Dunbar show the night Belli was there was someone other than Eric Weil. Who knows if that's true.

Nachtsider wrote:

Graysmith likes to peddle the idea that the very first call made to the Jim Dunbar show the night Belli was there was someone other than Eric Weil. Who knows if that's true.

Do you mean that two different callers spoke with Belli on the air?

That's what he was implying. Again, I have no way of knowing if it was true (leaning towards 'not', in light of his track record).

Nachtsider wrote:

That's what he was implying. Again, I have no way of knowing if it was true (leaning towards 'not', in light of his track record).

I seem to recall a youtube video or something, or a recording of the show when the caller(s) called in. Maybe we could listen and see if it sounds like two different people.

Maybe he is referring to the call to the Oakland PD that precipitated the Dunbar Show calls???

Nachtsider wrote:

Graysmith likes to peddle the idea that the very first call made to the Jim Dunbar show the night Belli was there was someone other than Eric Weil. Who knows if that's true.

He is not the only one who feels that way. I watched that show while living in Napa a few blooks from where the calls were made. I have to say that it could very well have been thee Zodiac. He could have made all those calls, and there were many short calls. It took a lot of change to make so many long distance calls. For all we know he could have seen someone standing close by ,and gave him some change to make a few calls to anyone else. That guy could have been Eric Weil ? Zodiac wasn't stupid, he knew how to get around things and not get caught.
How many mental patients would know that the calls could be traced if you talked too long ? I am very sure the Zodiac knew that. And how many of them would have that much change on them ? I think its a good possibility that the Zodiac planned out the whole thing, including setting up someone else to take the blame for those calls.

My take on it is that Z made the initial phone call(s) call to get Belli on air as part of a big publicity stunt but that's as far as his contribution went. We know from all his cards, codes and letters that the guy was a publicity whore who used terror to get attention.

I think that once word got out that there was going to be a special Dunbar show with Zodiac then a certain nutcase (Weil) decided to ring in and pretend he was the Zodiac. The real Z could easily have also called in and said "Hey - I'm the real Z" but let's face it - he had already achieved his goal of getting huge publicity on a TV show, has none other than Melvin Belli talking about him and Z has the added bonus of some other dickhead doing the talking, risking capture and leading the investigation astray. Yet another stroke of luck for the real Z.

Quagmire wrote:

My take on it is that Z made the initial phone call(s) call to get Belli on air as part of a big publicity stunt but that's as far as his contribution went. We know from all his cards, codes and letters that the guy was a publicity whore who used terror to get attention.

I think that once word got out that there was going to be a special Dunbar show with Zodiac then a certain nutcase (Weil) decided to ring in and pretend he was the Zodiac. The real Z could easily have also called in and said "Hey - I'm the real Z" but let's face it - he had already achieved his goal of getting huge publicity on a TV show, has none other than Melvin Belli talking about him and Z has the added bonus of some other dickhead doing the talking, risking capture and leading the investigation astray. Yet another stroke of luck for the real Z.

I agree, I think Z didnt want to take ANY chances of his calls being traced.

I'm sure his involvement in this case is just a whole load of big coincidences but I just keep coming back to this Zode bloke and can't shake him off as a good suspect. So many things about him fit the Z puzzle:

1) He has the links to Southern California where most investigators believe Z started.
2) His initials pretty much match one of the few possibilities of the Bates letter signatures.
3) Was star struck with Melvin Belli and was even one of a small number of people who turned up at the music room in Riverside College to see him.
4) He was not only in the same school but the same year as Pat Hautz who wrote a letter about the Z case alluding to the possibility that she knew Z.
5) He lived a stones throw from Kathy Johns who was seemingly followed up from the San Bernadino area by Z.
6) Was a budding law student who ended up for whatever reason doing security work, etc.
7) His middle name is Lee. Correctly or not this name keeps cropping up as some oddball who seems to have known Darlene Ferrin.

On top of all this he readily admits that he called himself the Zodiac years before the murders started Now surely he has to be somehow involved whether directly or indirectly (ie someone who knew of him took him as inspiration). He also seems to have no problem with spending hours on the phone to a complete stranger 40 years later asking him about his background and possible involvement in the murders!! Also, it's a vague link but I've wondered for a long time if Z writing about the Mikado was a vague hint to his name - perhaps Mike??? This case is littered with coincidences but a guy with strong links to Riverside, Pat Hautz, Belli, Southern California, Kathy Johns whose name fits the Bates signatures, the mysterious Lee and whose nickname in the 60's was Zodiac surely has to have something to do with this case...??

The 3 big things that we don't have are a matching handwriting sample, a description/photo of him around 1969 and a link to the North Bay area around the time of the murders. I think these are the things that we need to try and pin down before he can be eliminated. For starters, do we know his height? For instance, if he's 6'5" I think we could count him out!

Quagmire wrote:

I'm sure his involvement in this case is just a whole load of big coincidences but I just keep coming back to this Zode bloke and can't shake him off as a good suspect. So many things about him fit the Z puzzle:

1) He has the links to Southern California where most investigators believe Z started.
2) His initials pretty much match one of the few possibilities of the Bates letter signatures.
3) Was star struck with Melvin Belli and was even one of a small number of people who turned up at the music room in Riverside College to see him.
4) He was not only in the same school but the same year as Pat Hautz who wrote a letter about the Z case alluding to the possibility that she knew Z.
5) He lived a stones throw from Kathy Johns who was seemingly followed up from the San Bernadino area by Z.
6) Was a budding law student who ended up for whatever reason doing security work, etc.
7) His middle name is Lee. Correctly or not this name keeps cropping up as some oddball who seems to have known Darlene Ferrin.

On top of all this he readily admits that he called himself the Zodiac years before the murders started Now surely he has to be somehow involved whether directly or indirectly (ie someone who knew of him took him as inspiration). He also seems to have no problem with spending hours on the phone to a complete stranger 40 years later asking him about his background and possible involvement in the murders!! Also, it's a vague link but I've wondered for a long time if Z writing about the Mikado was a vague hint to his name - perhaps Mike??? This case is littered with coincidences but a guy with strong links to Riverside, Pat Hautz, Belli, Southern California, Kathy Johns whose name fits the Bates signatures, the mysterious Lee and whose nickname in the 60's was Zodiac surely has to have something to do with this case...??

The 3 big things that we don't have are a matching handwriting sample, a description/photo of him around 1969 and a link to the North Bay area around the time of the murders. I think these are the things that we need to try and pin down before he can be eliminated. For starters, do we know his height? For instance, if he's 6'5" I think we could count him out!

QUAGMIRE, All good points. One other thing about ZODE, he also seemed to fit profile of Z possibly, as far as him being unlucky in the female department. Also, seemed to have menial jobs, no real career. I dont know his height & weight, but I want to say I recall being told he was like 5ft8 or 5ft9. He is certainly an interesting character. The very limited printed writing I have seen of his, does NOT match Zodiac in my opinion.

Update on Katana09.
Sandy & Myself had the opportunity to meet and speak with Katana. I must say it was a very informative day. He proved us with his personal information and his research on Zode. We spent the better part of the day going over Zode and the Z case. Katana gave me permission to post this update.
_____________________________________________________________
First of all, just want to again thank you both for taking the time to meet. Great conversation and exchange and it was good to put faces with the names. Really enjoyed seeing your genuine interest and spirit regarding the Z cases. We truly enjoyed the visit.

Zamantha/Sandy, It is fine with me, if you want to mention to the Board that we had an opportunity to personally meet.

"I wish to express a genuine apology and explanation to all of you regarding my abrupt departure from the ZK web site after my initial posts regarding "A Real Zodiac Unmasked With Connections to CJB". In May 2007, I was informed that I had Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis (IPF), which is also often referred to as the 9/11 disease. In addfition, I was also diagnosed with Pulmonary Hypertension (PH). The bottom line is that IPF patients are given a 2-5 year life expectancy from the time of diagnosis unless an opportunity exists for a possible lung transplant. The PH complicates the IPF, as any excessive stress/anxiety rapidly wears me down and leaves me exhausted. The debilitating nature of IPF didn't really sink in until I decided to make a larger personal comittment to trying to find some justice for the Z victims and their families. As I stated in my very first post, I had come to realize that virtually everyone of the key PDs I had contact with (RPD, SFPD, Vallejo, Solano PD and Solano County Sheriff's Office) were not going to expend any time, money, resources on 40 year old cold cases.

After my first post, I was not prepared for the response it generated. I found myself consumed with way too many questions from board members and I felt a lot of pressure in trying to answer them in a timely/thorough manner. I could not keep up (Lousy/slow typist) and I was becoming overwhelmed with many additional PMs. Trying to figure out who I could trust became very difficult. All of this was taking its toll and my wife had become concerned. I needed to back away from the Board so as to dump all of the unneeded/self imposed stress and anxiety. Althougth I continued to review the board and follow the CJB thread, I avoided the temptation to respond to the many comments being made about my departure from the thread. I fully understood the hard feelings that were expressed, but I didn't have the energy/desire to try and explain myself. Had way too much going on in mind regarding my health and in some ways I was at a very low point. I hope you understatnd and will accept my apology. I do want all of you to know that I have appreciated watching all that you have accomplished in pursuing and learning more about the PHS-Z and recognizing the many "dots" that form over his head and show him to be a strong potential suspect."

Thanks, Zam, would love to hear more from Katana. I have some questions for him, and would like to exchange notes with him about ZODE. Also, he certainly is invited to join here, although, he may face alot more questions and interest, just as he did at ZK.com

I certainly will give him the benefit of the doubt that what he says about ZODE is true, but at the same time, I would love to verify some things with him. Anytime somebody makes statements like he has made, they are BOLD STATEMENTS, and ones that somebody should be ready to answer questions about.

I have some very limited samples of ZODE's printed writing, and I will try to put it up in this thread over the next couple days.

Just to reiterate some more Zynchronicity lending to the "water connection"... there's a body of water embedded in his last name. I believe that's been mentioned before. Regardless of his involvement, he sure seems to be an interesting character.

-tbz

Thank you for making the time to meet with KatanaQ9, Zam*. I am anxious to hear more from him and his insights about MLZ.