ZODE from Pacific High School Q&A for Katana

use this thread for asking questions of Katana regarding ZODE, and perhaps he can answer them when he is able to

I will start:

Katana, were you the author of this email from 1994?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/575cc4b6e04f2f6/8d4f689f0ac4baea?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22big+bad+zode%22

If not, do you know who was?

Katana, I'm sorry to hear of the health issues that have beleaguered you lately. It's my sincere hope that you make as complete a recovery as possible soon.

The only 'Zode' related question I have to ask at this point in time is this: what are your opinions regarding his responses to morf's questions?

Katana,

Did you witness any of Zode's peculiar behavior firsthand, or is it possible these details have been embellished through a variety of sources over the years? In particular, Zode scrawling "This is the Zodiac speaking" on a blackboard or stating that people would be "slaves in his afterlife," both of which Zode has denied in morf's recent interview. It screams 'urban legend' to me and I'm more than a little curious if it can be verified.

-tbz

thebigZ wrote:

Katana,

Did you witness any of Zode's peculiar behavior firsthand, or is it possible these details have been embellished through a variety of sources over the years? In particular, Zode scrawling "This is the Zodiac speaking" on a blackboard or stating that people would be "slaves in his afterlife," both of which Zode has denied in morf's recent interview. It screams 'urban legend' to me and I'm more than a little curious if it can be verified.

-tbz

Sometimes things that seem to good to be true, are actually true. It has happened before.

morf13 wrote:

use this thread for asking questions of Katana regarding ZODE, and perhaps he can answer them when he is able to

Morf, Here are my replies to the list of questions presented thus far under this thread.

Katana, were you the author of this email from 1994?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/575cc4b6e04f2f6/8d4f689f0ac4baea?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22big+bad+zode%22

If not, do you know who was?

Morf: In regard to the alt.truecrime “The Identity of the Real Zodiac” - I am not the author and I do not know who is. However, this person obviously had much closer contact with “Zode,” as it appears that he/she had personal classroom observations. In fact, the observations described are much more startling than my and my wife’s observations of the PHS-Z which were in passing between classes, or in the campus quadrangle before school started or during lunch. It appears that the poster was in a position where he/she had more frequent, up-close contacts. I was also surprised about the incident regarding the PHS-Z at SB Valley College. I never would have expected the PHS-Z to have enrolled at SBVC after high school as a huge number of his tormenters would have been attending that school as well. I have always believed that if the PHS-Z had any intentions of attending college he would have enrolled at Riverside City College to avoid running into all the people who gave him so much trouble in high school. I viewed this poster’s comments as a confirmation of my observations of the PHS-Z which I described in my initial thread at Zodiackiller.com. Like you, I would very much like to know who posted this 1994 item at the alt.truecrime website. If you have any more questions regarding this, please let me know.

Nachtsider: The only 'Zode' related question I have to ask at this point in time is this: what are your opinions regarding his responses to morf's questions?

Regarding the 4/11/11 typed letter from the PHS-Z, I was very intrigued reading it. It is clear to me that he has his dates all screwed up. I graduated from Del Vallejo Junior High in 1961, and the PHS-Z is not listed in the yearbook for the 1960-61 school year. It may be that he attended Del Vallejo and enrolled there after class photos were taken; and I have not been able to locate him in any of the school club photos. I can say for sure that I never ran into him during my time at Del Vallejo. My review of open-source records in Riverside, California indicated that he moved with his family from Riverside to his current San Bernardino address in 1961 or 62. If that is the case, it is most likely that he would have possibly attended Golden Valley Junior High School versus Del Vallejo, as his home was in the Golden Valley district. I could be wrong on this and I will do some additional checking.

I found that many of the PHS-Z’s comments conflicted with reality. Specifically, his comments about being ridiculed by other students for the Zodiac name in ’61-62 because of the killings that he says were committed around that time. We, of course, know that this could not have been the case, since the murders did not begin until much later. The only other personal observation I have about the typed letter is that I sense in the PHS-Z’s comments that he seems to relish the attention he believes he is getting on the Zodiac websites. In many ways, this attention getting is very similar to what the Zodiac Killer was trying to do during his rampage.

In the summary of Morf’s phone call with the PHS-Z, he again suggests that he only used the name Zodiac while in Junior High School. This is a flat out lie. He also indicates that he does not believe he wore an elastic band to hold up his black framed eye glasses. I saw the PHS-Z frequently each week in passing and in the quad. I can say with certainty that the only time I have ever seen the PHS-Z without his glasses and elastic head band was when I saw his class photos in the PHS yearbooks.

There have been suggestions that I embellished my observations of the PHS-Z, specifically in regard to my seeing/hearing him use the phrase such as “This is the Zodiac speaking.” In my initial thread I described my personal observations of the PHS-Z, which most frequently occurred in passing while walking in the hallways between classes. It was during one of these regular encounters that I first heard students calling out to him in a taunting way saying such things as, “Hey, here comes the Zodiac?”, “How’s it going Zodiac?” Although I found the questions strange I did not, at first, pay too much attention to this. Not too long afterward, I began to hear the PHS-Z responding to the students that called out to him. Whatever his intended response was, he would often lead his response with the words, “This is the Zodiac speaking…” To me, this was very strange/bizarre and it definitely caught my attention. Over time it became evident to me that the PHS-Z had truly come to embody this new character/personality named Zodiac, at least while on campus (I never saw him off campus.). (Morf, incredibly, as I’m writing this, it just occurred to me for the very first time, I frankly don’t ever remember seeing/hearing the PHS-Z when he was not, in his mind, on planet Zodiac!!)

Probably, as I described in my initial CJB post at the ZK.com site, the most bizarre incident I ever saw involving the PHS-Z occurred while walking through a congested/rowdy locker room hallway between classes. The PHS-Z, walking quickly in the same direction as me, passed me carrying a brief case in one hand and holding a large number of books under his other arm. When the PHS-Z passed a few jocks that were ahead of him, one of them ran up to him from behind and pulled down on the books. The books fell to the floor and passing students began kicking them in virtually every direction. I observed the PHS-Z frantically/frustratingly scrambling to gather his books, while the jocks just laughed and taunted him with words. He seemed to finally get the books collected, except for one last book that remained on the sidewalk outside the locker room hall way. When the PHS-Z went over and bent down to pick-up the book, one of the jocks wrapped his arm around the PHS-Z’s head and began with the “Bonito” routine. When the PHS-Z tried to stand up he would be pushed back down. At one point during this taunting, I observed the PHS-Z talking back at the jocks using some of his familiar phrases, but it was during this particular incident that I heard him, for the first time, use the phrase, “You can’t hurt the Zodiac.” As I mentioned in my first CJB thread, I truly believe the PHS-Z had taken on the Zodiac character/personality as a means of coping with all the daily crap he was encountering on campus.

To close out my response on this, all I can say is that very early in my professional career I learned the importance of honesty and integrity. If you compromise it, you lose it – You are through!! My efforts in regard to the Zodiac case, especially in my contacts with LE agencies, have been conducted with the same honesty and integrity that I demonstrated in my very lengthy and successful professional career. If I do embellish/exaggerate, it is usually while playing with, or teasing, my grandchildren.

-tbz wrote:

Katana,

Did you witness any of Zode's peculiar behavior firsthand, or is it possible these details have been embellished through a variety of sources over the years? In particular, Zode scrawling "This is the Zodiac speaking" on a blackboard or stating that people would be "slaves in his afterlife," both of which Zode has denied in morf's recent interview. It screams 'urban legend' to me and I'm more than a little curious if it can be verified.

-tbz

tbz: Please see details of my observations of the PHS-Z in my response above. I never saw the PHS-Z in any kind of indoor setting. I have never seen him write anything/anywhere. I have never heard him tell people that they would be “slaves in his afterlife.”

Katana,

I did not say that YOU embellished/exaggerated anything. I was referring to the link to a 17 year old anonymous posting, the details of which have been questioned for quite some time (not just by me). Again, my question to you was simply if you had first-hand knowledge of those details or if you believed they might have been exaggerated. Sorry if you mistook that as questioning your integrity.

Thank you for providing more detail.

-tbz

KATANA, this is amazing stuff!

Please do not take this the wrong way, I am certainly not calling you a liar. I don't know you OR PHS Zodiac, from a hole in the wall...but one thing is clear, there is without any lingering doubt, a complete, and 100%difference in what you have stated and PHS Zodiac has stated.

Some major differences:

You clearly say that you recall ZODE saying "this is the Zodiac speaking", and he flat out denies ever saying that.

You clearly remember him wearing glasses, and he flat out said he did not start wearing glasses until 1970 when he had eye surgery.

And on top of this, if ZODE really did use the term "slaves in the afterlife", then this can NOT be a coincidence, hence, either ZODE was the zodiac, or somebody that knew ZODE was Zodiac....this goes beyond coincidence.

morf13 wrote:

KATANA, this is amazing stuff!

Please do not take this the wrong way, I am certainly not calling you a liar. I don't know you OR PHS Zodiac, from a hole in the wall...but one thing is clear, there is without any lingering doubt, a complete, and 100%difference in what you have stated and PHS Zodiac has stated.

Some major differences:

You clearly say that you recall ZODE saying "this is the Zodiac speaking", and he flat out denies ever saying that.

You clearly remember him wearing glasses, and he flat out said he did not start wearing glasses until 1970 when he had eye surgery.

And on top of this, if ZODE really did use the term "slaves in the afterlife", then this can NOT be a coincidence, hence, either ZODE was the zodiac, or somebody that knew ZODE was Zodiac....this goes beyond coincidence.

Morf,

I have to apologize to you, as I incorrectly indicated in my response to tbz that I had heard Z use the term "slaves in the afterlife". In my response to tbz's question I inadvertently left out the word "never" in the pertinent sentence. I will go back and correct this error. Again, apologize for the confusion I may have created.

Katana 9Q

Katana

Thanks for coming here and giving us the benefit of your knowledge. There are many members here who are very interested in this person as a possible suspect in the Z case, as well as many skeptics. The more truthful information we can establish, the better, and you are helping us do that.

My questions:

1. Other than calling himself "Zodiac", which he admits, what else can you tell us to help include or exclude him as a suspect? Given the popularity of horoscopes and zodiacs, and given that he had an unusual name with a "Z" in it, I personally do not find it very interesting that he called himself "Zodiac". In fact, given that he openly called himself that, I consider him perhaps the least likeliest person to be the killer "Zodiac".

Can you tell us if this man:

A: Was of high intelligence?

B: Showed any interest or aptitude for codes?

C: Owned or was interested in guns, hunting, opera, "The Mikado", the story/film "The Most Dangerous Game"?

D: Showed any interest in bombs, explosives, chemicals?

2. You say you heard him utter the words "This is the Zodiac speaking". Is it POSSIBLE you merged your memory of him calling himself "Zodiac" with your later awareness of the criminal writing letters stating "This is the Zodiac speaking"? If he did say this, can you explain why haven't hundreds or at least dozens of fellow students reported this? Can you in fact give the names of other students who can testify to his saying "This is the Zodiac speaking".

3. In pictures this man, who is Arabic, appears to be dark skinned with black hair. He does not appear to match any of the sketches or descriptions of the Zodiac. As someone who knew him, can you shed any light on this issue?

Katana9Q,

Thank you for posting. I appreciate your comments.

katana9q wrote:

morf13 wrote:

KATANA, this is amazing stuff!

Please do not take this the wrong way, I am certainly not calling you a liar. I don't know you OR PHS Zodiac, from a hole in the wall...but one thing is clear, there is without any lingering doubt, a complete, and 100%difference in what you have stated and PHS Zodiac has stated.

Some major differences:

You clearly say that you recall ZODE saying "this is the Zodiac speaking", and he flat out denies ever saying that.

You clearly remember him wearing glasses, and he flat out said he did not start wearing glasses until 1970 when he had eye surgery.

And on top of this, if ZODE really did use the term "slaves in the afterlife", then this can NOT be a coincidence, hence, either ZODE was the zodiac, or somebody that knew ZODE was Zodiac....this goes beyond coincidence.

Morf,

I have to apologize to you, as I incorrectly indicated in my response to tbz that I had heard Z use the term "slaves in the afterlife". In my response to tbz's question I inadvertently left out the word "never" in the pertinent sentence. I will go back and correct this error. Again, apologize for the confusion I may have created.

Katana 9Q

Thanks for clearing that up...I just about jumped out of my chair..

AK Wilks wrote:

Katana

Thanks for coming here and giving us the benefit of your knowledge. There are many members here who are very interested in this person as a possible suspect in the Z case, as well as many skeptics. The more truthful information we can establish, the better, and you are helping us do that.

My questions:

1. Other than calling himself "Zodiac", which he admits, what else can you tell us to help include or exclude him as a suspect? Given the popularity of horoscopes and zodiacs, and given that he had an unusual name with a "Z" in it, I personally do not find it very interesting that he called himself "Zodiac". In fact, given that he openly called himself that, I consider him perhaps the least likeliest person to be the killer "Zodiac".

Can you tell us if this man:

A: Was of high intelligence?

B: Showed any interest or aptitude for codes?

C: Owned or was interested in guns, hunting, opera, "The Mikado", the story/film "The Most Dangerous Game"?

D: Showed any interest in bombs, explosives, chemicals?

2. You say you heard him utter the words "This is the Zodiac speaking". Is it POSSIBLE you merged your memory of him calling himself "Zodiac" with your later awareness of the criminal writing letters stating "This is the Zodiac speaking"? If he did say this, can you explain why haven't hundreds or at least dozens of fellow students reported this? Can you in fact give the names of other students who can testify to his saying "This is the Zodiac speaking".

3. In pictures this man, who is Arabic, appears to be dark skinned with black hair. He does not appear to match any of the sketches or descriptions of the Zodiac. As someone who knew him, can you shed any light on this issue?

AK Wilks,

One of the key points I made in my very first post regarding the PHS-Z on the ZKiller.com Site is that I only consider the PHS-Z to be a very good potential suspect meriting the attention of LE.

I truly am not trying to be rude, but after all of the information that has been presented regarding the PHS-Z, much of it independently validated by many other members on this and other Z Sites, I don't understand it when you state, "I personally do not find it very interesting that he called himself "Zodiac". In fact, given that he openly called himself that, I consider him perhaps the least likeliest person to be the killer "Zodiac". What I don't understand is that if after your full review of all of the information that has been presented on the PHS-Z, to include the validation of information such as 1) his close connections to Riverside, 2) his close proximity to victims CJB, Cecelia Shepard and KJ, 3) his potential connections to Patricia Hautz, and 4) that on two of the CJB "Had To Die Letters" there are symbols, one very roughly looking like a Z and the other being very precisely/deliberately written and seems to form the letters mLZ, which happen to be the PHS-Z's initials, I'm not sure how someone would not view these "dots" that form over PHS-Z's head as not being fairly compelling. Again, I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't understand how you view the PHS-Z, or at least seem to indicate that you view him, as being the least likeliest person that merits consideration as a potential Z suspect. I just don't understand this and I don't think there is anything that I could ever say, or present to you, that would sufficiently satisfy you.

katana9q wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:

Katana

Thanks for coming here and giving us the benefit of your knowledge. There are many members here who are very interested in this person as a possible suspect in the Z case, as well as many skeptics. The more truthful information we can establish, the better, and you are helping us do that.

My questions:

1. Other than calling himself "Zodiac", which he admits, what else can you tell us to help include or exclude him as a suspect? Given the popularity of horoscopes and zodiacs, and given that he had an unusual name with a "Z" in it, I personally do not find it very interesting that he called himself "Zodiac". In fact, given that he openly called himself that, I consider him perhaps the least likeliest person to be the killer "Zodiac".

Can you tell us if this man:

A: Was of high intelligence?

B: Showed any interest or aptitude for codes?

C: Owned or was interested in guns, hunting, opera, "The Mikado", the story/film "The Most Dangerous Game"?

D: Showed any interest in bombs, explosives, chemicals?

2. You say you heard him utter the words "This is the Zodiac speaking". Is it POSSIBLE you merged your memory of him calling himself "Zodiac" with your later awareness of the criminal writing letters stating "This is the Zodiac speaking"? If he did say this, can you explain why haven't hundreds or at least dozens of fellow students reported this? Can you in fact give the names of other students who can testify to his saying "This is the Zodiac speaking".

3. In pictures this man, who is Arabic, appears to be dark skinned with black hair. He does not appear to match any of the sketches or descriptions of the Zodiac. As someone who knew him, can you shed any light on this issue?

AK Wilks,

One of the key points I made in my very first post regarding the PHS-Z on the ZKiller.com Site is that I only consider the PHS-Z to be a very good potential suspect meriting the attention of LE.

I truly am not trying to be rude, but after all of the information that has been presented regarding the PHS-Z, much of it independently validated by many other members on this and other Z Sites, I don't understand it when you state, [i]"I personally do not find it very interesting that he called himself "Zodiac". In fact, given that he openly called himself that, I consider him perhaps the least likeliest person to be the killer "Zodiac".[/i] What I don't understand is that if after your full review of all of the information that has been presented on the PHS-Z, to include the validation of information such as 1) his close connections to Riverside, 2) his close proximity to victims CJB, Cecelia Shepard and KJ, 3) his potential connections to Patricia Hautz, and 4) that on two of the CJB "Had To Die Letters" there are symbols, one very roughly looking like a Z and the other being very precisely/deliberately written and seems to form the letters mLZ, which happen to be the PHS-Z's initials, I'm not sure how someone would not view these "dots" that form over PHS-Z's head as not being fairly compelling. Again, I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't understand how you view the PHS-Z, or at least seem to indicate that you view him, as being the least likeliest person that merits consideration as a potential Z suspect. I just don't understand this and I don't think there is anything that I could ever say, or present to you, that would sufficiently satisfy you.

I have to agree with Katana on that statement AK...if TED K, or anybody else's POI made those statements, the person interested in that POI would be all over that in support of their POI!! And there is more than just the name, we have his interest in Belli, plus he does tend to fit a Z profile.

Fair enough. But can you answer my questions?

Many do think this man a very good suspect. I don't. But there are interesting things about him, and I hope we can develop information that tends to include or exclude him as a suspect. I appreciate your coming here to answer questions.

Let me clarify. If you said you saw a private journal he was writing and in it he called himself "Zodiac", I would find that very interesting!

But you are saying he went around openly calling himself "Zodiac". OK, that is somewhat odd and interesting. But since Zodiac was intelligent and never got caught, I find it difficult to believe that a boy who went around calling himself "Zodiac" would later murder people and then sign letters as "Zodiac". See my point?

More importantly, why have there not been dozens of fellow students reporting that he said "This is the Zodiac speaking"? If he in fact used that same phrase as the Zodiac Killer, that is very interesting. Morf is in contact with Zodiac case investigators, as am I. If you can give us the names of other students who heard him say this, I for one would pass it on to law enforcement.

The geographic and circumstantial evidence you mention in regards to him I personally do not find very compelling. There was a ton of such geographic and circumstantial evidence in regards to Allen, but we know he was not the Zodiac.

The fact that he talked to Morf, and appeared to me to be fairly open and honest IMO is not consistent with what the real Zodiac would do, but who can say for sure? After Morf's interview and the answers he gave, my interest in him as a suspect diminished even more.

Certainly there are interesting things about this man to make him a suspect. My other questions revolve around issues such as did he have an interest in codes, bombs, guns, opera, "The Mikado" or "The Most Dangerous Game"?

I also have a real question how a dark skinned Arabic man could be the Zodiac, as that does not match any known descriptions.

I think they are fair questions. And again, I do appreciate your willingness to answer questions. Don't confuse skepticism and inquiry with hostility! I just would like to establish what we know. This man has been a figure of mystery in the case, and Morf has done a great service by interviewing him, and you by coming here to provide info and answer questions.

You are free to answer any questions you wish, or not answer any. I just thought they were things you might know. Having asked my questions, I will leave this thread to those with a greater interest in this man as a suspect.

Thanks again for your coming here and giving us information. I hope we can continue to develop information. If it appears this man was or could be the Zodiac, then the info must be passed on to law enforcement. If he is not the Zodiac, then perhaps we can clear his name.

Thanks Katana for helping us understand ZODE. I have read the information on all three Z sites regarding ZODE and he has drawn pages and pages of interest. So, alot
of people find and think this ZODE could be the Z. Or if not the Z, then a copy cat? Or did the Z know ZODE and copy him. Something honestly doesn't seem right . SO YES
I for one think this ZODE guy honestly needs to be looked into.
I find ZODE very intriguing..... of course you already know that! :-) This is the only POI that has called himself Zodiac. I feel there was some slip ups in his letter to
Morf, not sure if Zode was still playing a game. And I concur Zode seems to like the attention. The type written letter seemed strange to me. As far as his description, he
looks darker in the school pic's but lighter as he aged. Sometimes the lighting in pictures and sun light can make one appear lighter or darker skinned. i've had people
tell me I had olive skin, when I think my skin color is lite. <--- Just using that for an example.
I am aware of ZODES real name, and I can see how you are seeing it in the code.

AK Wilks wrote:

Fair enough. But can you answer my questions?

Many do think this man a very good suspect. I don't. But there are interesting things about him, and I hope we can develop information that tends to include or exclude him as a suspect. I appreciate your coming here to answer questions.

Let me clarify. If you said you saw a private journal he was writing and in it he called himself "Zodiac", I would find that very interesting!

But you are saying he went around openly calling himself "Zodiac". OK, that is somewhat odd and interesting. But since Zodiac was intelligent and never got caught, I find it difficult to believe that a boy who went around calling himself "Zodiac" would later murder people and then sign letters as "Zodiac". See my point?

More importantly, why have there not been dozens of fellow students reporting that he said "This is the Zodiac speaking"? If he in fact used that same phrase as the Zodiac Killer, that is very interesting. Morf is in contact with Zodiac case investigators, as am I. If you can give us the names of other students who heard him say this, I for one would pass it on to law enforcement.

The geographic and circumstantial evidence you mention in regards to him I personally do not find very compelling. There was a ton of such geographic and circumstantial evidence in regards to Allen, but we know he was not the Zodiac.

The fact that he talked to Morf, and appeared to me to be fairly open and honest IMO is not consistent with what the real Zodiac would do, but who can say for sure? After Morf's interview and the answers he gave, my interest in him as a suspect diminished even more.

Certainly there are interesting things about this man to make him a suspect. My other questions revolve around issues such as did he have an interest in codes, bombs, guns, opera, "The Mikado" or "The Most Dangerous Game"?

I also have a real question how a dark skinned Arabic man could be the Zodiac, as that does not match any known descriptions.

I think they are fair questions. And again, I do appreciate your willingness to answer questions. Don't confuse skepticism and inquiry with hostility! I just would like to establish what we know. This man has been a figure of mystery in the case, and Morf has done a great service by interviewing him, and you by coming here to provide info and answer questions.

You are free to answer any questions you wish, or not answer any. I just thought they were things you might know. Having asked my questions, I will leave this thread to those with a greater interest in this man as a suspect.

Thanks again for your coming here and giving us information. I hope we can continue to develop information. If it appears this man was or could be the Zodiac, then the info must be passed on to law enforcement. If he is not the Zodiac, then perhaps we can clear his name.

I am going to state some of my opinions here, and maybe KATANA can reply with his as well.

AK- "Let me clarify. If you said you saw a private journal he was writing and in it he called himself "Zodiac", I would find that very interesting!But you are saying he went around openly calling himself "Zodiac". OK, that is somewhat odd and interesting. But since Zodiac was intelligent and never got caught, I find it difficult to believe that a boy who went around calling himself "Zodiac" would later murder people and then sign letters as "Zodiac". See my point?"

MORF13- He may not have been in touch with reality, or didnt even care, or didnt think that many people would remember him. Then again, Zodiac could have been a fellow student of ZODE, and used the "zodiac" character.


AK- "More importantly, why have there not been dozens of fellow students reporting that he said "This is the Zodiac speaking"? If he in fact used that same phrase as the Zodiac Killer, that is very interesting. Morf is in contact with Zodiac case investigators, as am I. If you can give us the names of other students who heard him say this, I for one would pass it on to law enforcement."

MORF13- We dont know how many people have passed this same info on to law enforcement. And we all know how well LE works, just look how the Riverside PD refused to consider any suspects other than their own after all these years. As far as investigators, KATANA has passed this info onto law enforcement.

AK- "The geographic and circumstantial evidence you mention in regards to him I personally do not find very compelling. There was a ton of such geographic and circumstantial evidence in regards to Allen, but we know he was not the Zodiac"

MORF13- ALA never called himself Zodiac, only Don Cheney claimed that. ZODE admitted he called himself that, and had a strange interest in Belli too.

AK- "The fact that he talked to Morf, and appeared to me to be fairly open and honest IMO is not consistent with what the real Zodiac would do, but who can say for sure? After Morf's interview and the answers he gave, my interest in him as a suspect diminished even more."

MORF13- Each time I talked to him, his story changed a bit. He went from blowing off the Belli incident that it didnt happen to then admitting Belli asked him if he was the Zodiac.


AK- "Certainly there are interesting things about this man to make him a suspect. My other questions revolve around issues such as did he have an interest in codes, bombs, guns, opera, "The Mikado" or "The Most Dangerous Game"?"

MORF13- According to ZODE, he had very little interest in these things, but supposedly was a licensed security guard and could carry guns.

AK- "I also have a real question how a dark skinned Arabic man could be the Zodiac, as that does not match any known descriptions."

MORF13- Lets look at the people that have been confirmed to have seen ZODIAC without a mask, and not possibly seen him. That list contains a very few people. Mike Mageau, who I think had a hard time with a light shining in his face, but some people think he gave an okay description back then. Also the kids at the window-at night & from across the street. Lastly, Officer Fouke, who said Z looked like he was of welsh descent, which I dont really know what that means. Maybe he meant he was dark skinned, I dont know.


Dont get me wrong, I have felt all along that Z was in his upper 30's, and I have my own personal suspect that I think could very well be Zodiac. But we cant just dismiss a suspect that called himself Zodiac, had some connections to possible Zodiac activity in southern CA, and/or to possible Z victims. Again, if TEDK was known to call himself Zodiac, that would be one of your arguments for him being Zodiac. I wish we had others that remembered ZODE that we could talk to, but some may have no interest or memory of ZODE.

Those are some good and valid points Morf. Food for thought.

There are many interesting aspects to this man, and the possible connections he has/had to Patricia Hautz, Bates, etc., are interesting and should be looked into.

I think Morf and others have done a great job shedding some light on this man of mystery.

I do sincerely appreciate Katana coming here and answering questions. I hope that continues. I just did have some questions I wanted to ask. No offense intended!

AK Wilks wrote:

Those are some good and valid points Morf. Food for thought.

There are many interesting aspects to this man, and the possible connections he has/had to Patricia Hautz, Bates, etc., are interesting and should be looked into.

I think Morf and others have done a great job shedding some light on this man of mystery.

I do sincerely appreciate Katana coming here and answering questions. I hope that continues. I just did have some questions I wanted to ask. No offense intended!

I hope we can learn enough to go forward with ZODE as a POI, or maybe rule him out.

Katana
Hello and welcome

I do appreciate you coming and telling what you know and I think alot of this will be rather hard on you as we are by and large a rather skeptical group. However I think if you hang in there you will make a few good friends that will make the experience more than worth while. Also there is the chance to reveal who z is and that would be worth a great deal indeed.

Please do not stress if you cannot get to everyones questions most of us have been there and know that it is impossible at times to get to them all. You are to be commended for what you have already shared.

I just have one question at this time.

Do you know or have you heard of any instances of Zode mistreating animals?
I ask because that is where almost all serial killers start.

Katana's statements make it clear that someone is being less than forthcoming. And I'm not talking about Katana. Morf, I think my previous advice that anything coming out of Morton's mouth is suspect has only strengthened in value. Tread carefully.

Morton taking on a 'persona', to the point of referring to himself by its name and in the third person, smacks of dissociation as a means of coping with trauma. As per Mike Kelleher and David Van Nuys' analysis of Zodiac's mind, there was a significant dissociative component to Zodiac's crimes - I tend to strongly agree. Curiouser and curiouser.

AK Wilks wrote:

But since Zodiac was intelligent and never got caught, I find it difficult to believe that a boy who went around calling himself "Zodiac" would later murder people and then sign letters as "Zodiac". See my point?

Stranger things have happened. Look at Harris and Klebold, who IMO have a very similar psychological makeup to Zodiac. They practically broadcast their murder plans before the event. If anything, Morton's history of being picked on at school only strenghtens the psych link.

AK Wilks wrote:

More importantly, why have there not been dozens of fellow students reporting that he said "This is the Zodiac speaking"?

Because they don't care? As the saying goes, evil triumphs when good men do nothing; this might be a textbook example.

The next questions I have for Katana are:

1. Do you have any knowledge of our man serving in the military, or being in any profession that would expose him to weapons usage, cryptography, explosives and/or electronics?

2. Do you know of his activities during the period 1971-1978? Incarcerations, institutionalizations or the like, in particular?

3. What is your take on the Belli incident?

Thanks for posting here; you're bringing some very intriguing stuff to the table.

Thanks for the approval to the board and thank you Katana for your information on Zode and I find him a very interesting POI. As for looking Welsh like Fouke said that skin type from what I been reading is mostly a olive type tone that matches Zodes in my opinion.

As for Zode calling himself Zodiac, from the 1994 post it seems like he wanted people from PHS to know it was him that he was the Zodiac. Kinda in your face attitude see I told ya I would show you and what are you going to do about it ? Anyhow just the feeling I got from the 94 post. Again thank you for the approval.

Welcome Stitch!

KATANA---Please forgive me if you have mentioned this before. Did you know (or know of) Patricia (Mary) Hautz when you were in high school with her?

Thanks Tahoe and appreciate all you guys hard work looking into this POI.

Thanks Morf for all you did and awesome phone interview and can not ask better then that. I been fallowing this case for 5 plus years and this POI is the best of the best in my opinion. Tahoe love your attitude and totally agree if LE don't give two craps then its time to civilians to do what they can. Tahoe agree lets either crap or get off the pot!