"ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

I noticed the other thread about "Zode" was locked, but I feel compelled to add that no one should be physically or verbally approaching ANYONE, EVER to ask them questions like that.

Now, if you can get someone to issue a warrant to search him or his house or car, or whatever, now that's a different story, but even then, LE has to do that, not "us"...

Look up "chain of custody" and "chain of "evidence" vis a vis collecting and processing materials for criminal cases, please, before you go running around trying to "do something..." seriously....

thebigZ wrote:

... Hi Folks,
I'm the one who posted the IE Mag letter on the ZKF board. ..........

Hi & welcome TBZ.

Whatever its value, the mag letter is a helluva find. Well done if it was you that found it (through skill). Or if you just chanced upon it, that was a real lucky find.

Rufus T Firefly wrote:

thebigZ wrote:

... Hi Folks,
I'm the one who posted the IE Mag letter on the ZKF board. ..........

Hi & welcome TBZ.

Whatever its value, the mag letter is a helluva find. Well done if it was you that found it (through skill). Or if you just chanced upon it, that was a real lucky find.

I owe it all to my friend Mr. Google.

i noticed on the for sale sign that bentley posted all the letters are capitol letters like the confession letter all capitol letters. that may not mean much its just something i noticed. now if we can locate zodes old classmates to find out if the story about him is true.
was he ever in the military? there are a lot of questions that can be answered without actually bothering him at the present. like public records. also i was thinking didnt allen seem to take on a zodiac persona i mean with the watch and the book "the most dangerous game" ???

calman wrote:

i noticed on the for sale sign that bentley posted all the letters are capitol letters like the confession letter all capitol letters. that may not mean much its just something i noticed. now if we can locate zodes old classmates to find out if the story about him is true.
was he ever in the military? there are a lot of questions that can be answered without actually bothering him at the present. like public records. also i was thinking didnt allen seem to take on a zodiac persona i mean with the watch and the book "the most dangerous game" ???

No military as far as we can tell.

As far as writing, his only printed samples are ALL CAPS. I would like to see his lower case printed letters.

when P Hautz mentioned the boy in her letter, was she speaking of zode.? that might be something mz knows the answer to.
but it seems like if he did then why hasnt he done anything with that information? i think more 1964 graduates from pacific high school need to be interviewed, but not just about zode. someone has to know something and they might not realize it yet.
too bad we cant reinterview ala. i could tell him,"remember me?"

morf13 wrote:

Here is a closeup of the word ZODIAC as written on the yearbook photo of ZODE. Question is, who wrote it and when?


Here is a photo of a yearbook page allegedly written by ZODE, with the signature removed.


For what its worth, it doesnt look to me like it matches cursive writing from the Hautz/ Riverside envelope or the Lass xmas card

That was not written by the "Zode" individual". It was written by another female classmate. I erased the name myself.

-Nin

personally i cannot read zodes writing at all. he graduated? with hand writing like that? zodiacs writing i can read too clearly. id like to know what influenced zode to take the zodiac persona. did he see it somewhere from someone else? i now believe ala got the idea from the story he heard about zode. a persona from a persona????? weird!!!!!

Nin wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Here is a closeup of the word ZODIAC as written on the yearbook photo of ZODE. Question is, who wrote it and when?


Here is a photo of a yearbook page allegedly written by ZODE, with the signature removed.


For what its worth, it doesnt look to me like it matches cursive writing from the Hautz/ Riverside envelope or the Lass xmas card

That was not written by the "Zode" individual". It was written by another female classmate. I erased the name myself.

-Nin

Thanks for clearing that up. Was it written to ZODE? If not, why was it brought up in the ZODE clues? Because of the same ink color?

Here is the closeup of the word ZODIAC written over his photo, and the letter he recently wrote. The letter Z in both samples in my opinion is a match, which leads me to believe that he wrote the word ZODIAC over his own photo

This photo is a closeup of the Z in the word Zodiac written over his yearbook photo:


This next photo is a closeup of the letter Z, he wrote recently:

In this letter, notice how ZODE is very precise and detail oriented and even lists that he has lived some place for "49 & a half years". That seems to match the writing pattern of Zodiac. He could have just stated that he was not related to the person and made it brief. Instead, he goes off on a long winded explanation.

Morf - I think it makes sense for you to send a letter to MZ, basically asking him what if anything he remembers about the Bates murder and the Zodiac case, if he knew Pat Hautz, mentioning someone brought up that he called himself "Zodiac" and if that is true, was he the one who talked to Belli, what can he say to clear himself of these no doubt false charges?

Regardless of what connection this guy has to the case, if any, you will get some information! You could even ask for a print writing sample. This guy likes to talk, he seems to be interested in the case, lets see what if anything he knows.

Ok, aside of anyone putting themselves in danger....I say "go for it"! SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING because this has been going on for long enough, the cops aren't going to do a damn thing.

If this guy is Zodiac--he got away with it for 40+ years so rather than sit back and not say anything...get it out in the open. Nothing will happen if nothing is done.

Well first of all, what are you going to say. Like how did you first hear about him, you can NOT tell him that. May NOT be a good idea. YOU don't want to get anyone in trouble, like the poster who
first brought this guy to the forums attention. i don't think he would be too happy! Need to keep that poster safe, as he felt safe enough to tell his story (On Tom's site) I think you have to think
of all the angles before you would do something like this?
I mean do you think this Zode guy even knows we know about him???

Thank you for your voice of reason, Zamantha!!

Folks, did you not read anything I wrote here; have you become so disconnected from "Real Life" that you are not aware of how completely inappropriate (and worse) these suggestions are??

I'm going to actually quote myself, which is realllly stooopid, but necessary, I feel in this case:

"I noticed the other thread about "Zode" was locked, but I feel compelled to add that no one should be physically or verbally approaching ANYONE, EVER to ask them questions like that.

Now, if you can get someone to issue a warrant to search him or his house or car, or whatever, now that's a different story, but even then, LE has to do that, not "us"...

Look up "chain of custody" and "chain of "evidence" vis a vis collecting and processing materials for criminal cases, please, before you go running around trying to "do something..." seriously...."

P.S. "Zode's" handwriting is clearly not a match....

OK, settle down for a minute...

I may be new to this particular forum, but I am not new to the Zodiac case nor law enforcement. Contacting this man (at least at this time) is a dumb idea. Yeah, yeah... we're ALL tired of waiting on LE to get to the bottom of things, but take a step back for a moment. Do you REALLY think you'll get some good information by contacting MLZ directly??? Your little "innocent until proven guilty" disclaimer will not shield you from harassment charges, no matter how nicely you want to word things to him... you simply do NOT know how he will react. If he's NOT Z, it may simply piss him off something awful. But what if he IS Z? Do you really think he's going to tell you anything useful? Did Zodiac EVER give any useful information regarding his identity?

When LE does have leads, it takes them weeks, months, or maybe even years to build a case against someone. We are a bunch of internet forum geeks who will hopefully be able to provide LE with enough information for them to obtain fingerprints/DNA/etc. through proper channels. The best outcome you could possibly hope for by contacting MLZ is to eliminate him as a POI; the worst is to put yourselves in an awkward legal position, drive the man underground, or get yourself killed. I ask that we continue to gather information in a discrete fashion and not do anything rash that could possibly jeopardize one's safety, another's privacy, or the case in general. Thank you for understanding.

-tbz

Zamantha wrote:

Well first of all, what are you going to say. Like how did you first hear about him, you can NOT tell him that. May NOT be a good idea. YOU don't want to get anyone in trouble, like the poster who
first brought this guy to the forums attention. i don't think he would be too happy! Need to keep that poster safe, as he felt safe enough to tell his story (On Tom's site) I think you have to think
of all the angles before you would do something like this?
I mean do you think this Zode guy even knows we know about him???

He couldnt trace back to the person that first brought his name up (we dont even know the real ID of the person that brought him up over 10 years ago (or why they brought him up).

A sample of a letter to ZODE could read as follows:

"Mr.__ Please read this letter with an open mind, and know that I am not writing to you to cause you any grief, or harm. I am researching the case of the Zodiac killer. There have been many names of possible Zodiac suspects brought up over the years. Somehow, your name was brought up over 10 years ago, and lately, your name has come up again. Please understand, I am not accusing you of having anything to do with the Zodiac crimes, or ANY crimes. I merely would like to see your name cleared, and the truth come out to end any speculation. Would you be open to answering some questions that would help end any ongoing speculation sorrounding your name? Please let me know. Please contact me and I will respect your descision either way. If you choose to answer some questions, I would see to it that your answers will be shared to help keep your name from being associated with the Zodiac, and I will guarantee that your name, ID, and personal info will not be shared in any way. If you ask me not to contact you again, I will respect your wishes. But I hope you will communicate with me to help clear any misconceptions that have led people to bring your name up in ZOdiac conversation"

You posted a site that maybe holds a magazine of interest to this board? When I opened it I see a ton of mags about the area, restaurants, tourist sites, etc. How do I find this mag you were speaking of?

Thanks

morf13 wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up. Was it written to ZODE? If not, why was it brought up in the ZODE clues? Because of the same ink color?

..

Yes, because of the same ink color. "Ann" wrote the note to "James", who she calls her "partner". Perhaps she purchased a yearbook long after 1964 and gave it as a gift to James making a point while both being familiar by then with the Zodiac crimes. Something like that. If MLZ had written "ZODIAC" next to his picture, why would he place his name in brackets?

-Nin

Has LE done anything with this guy? Maybe they have and this is a wasted discussion, I don't know.

If no one is going to do or say anything and the cops don't care, well I guess this potential Zodiac suspect walks...

Zab--if this were happening NOW I would agree with you 100%, but 40 years is long enough. SOMETHING needs to end this. If the cops aren't going to do it, someone needs to.

And why not just come right out with it? He might just be willing to talk about it! And if he doesn't you're no worse off. I don't think you have to worry about blowing the case. If it's him--he apparently got away with it.

I'm not telling anyone to go knock on the guys door.

How about hiring a P.I.? Would that be suitable?

Zabagliona wrote:

Thank you for your voice of reason, Zamantha!!

Folks, did you not read anything I wrote here; have you become so disconnected from "Real Life" that you are not aware of how completely inappropriate (and worse) these suggestions are??

I'm going to actually quote myself, which is realllly stooopid, but necessary, I feel in this case:

"I noticed the other thread about "Zode" was locked, but I feel compelled to add that no one should be physically or verbally approaching ANYONE, EVER to ask them questions like that.

Now, if you can get someone to issue a warrant to search him or his house or car, or whatever, now that's a different story, but even then, LE has to do that, not "us"...

Look up "chain of custody" and "chain of "evidence" vis a vis collecting and processing materials for criminal cases, please, before you go running around trying to "do something..." seriously...."

P.S. "Zode's" handwriting is clearly not a match....

You're missing the point. ZODE'S writing is not a match to Z? Based on what? Do we have multiple printed samples of ZODE's writing to compare to all of the printed Z writing?? NOPE, so we couldnt make an official determination-not that we could anyways since none of us are writing experts. But forget about ZODE being Zodiac for a while. We could still find out if there is any truth to the materials that have been presented. If this guy used to really say "This is the Zodiac speaking" years before Z used it, maybe Z knew ZODE, maybe they were friends. Maybe he would remember a close friend he had that moved to Vallejo., maybe he could tell us he knew Patricia Hautz,etc etc.

Its not about proving this guy was Z, its also about ruling him out if that can be done.

[quote="morf13]

He couldnt trace back to the person that first brought his name up (we dont even know the real ID of the person that brought him up over 10 years ago (or why they brought him up).

A sample of a letter to ZODE could read as follows:

"Mr.__ Please read this letter with an open mind, and know that I am not writing to you to cause you any grief, or harm. I am researching the case of the Zodiac killer. There have been many names of possible Zodiac suspects brought up over the years. Somehow, your name was brought up over 10 years ago, and lately, your name has come up again. Please understand, I am not accusing you of having anything to do with the Zodiac crimes, or ANY crimes. I merely would like to see your name cleared, and the truth come out to end any speculation. Would you be open to answering some questions that would help end any ongoing speculation sorrounding your name? Please let me know. Please contact me and I will respect your descision either way. If you choose to answer some questions, I would see to it that your answers will be shared to help keep your name from being associated with the Zodiac, and I will guarantee that your name, ID, and personal info will not be shared in any way. If you ask me not to contact you again, I will respect your wishes. But I hope you will communicate with me to help clear any misconceptions that have led people to bring your name up in ZOdiac conversation"[/quote]


You could potentially get in hot water for this regarding Internet libel laws regarding placing a private figure in a "false light"...

Nin wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up. Was it written to ZODE? If not, why was it brought up in the ZODE clues? Because of the same ink color?

..

Yes, because of the same ink color. "Ann" wrote the note to "James", who she calls her "partner". Perhaps she purchased a yearbook long after 1964 and gave it as a gift to James making a point while both being familiar by then with the Zodiac crimes. Something like that. If MLZ had written "ZODIAC" next to his picture, why would he place his name in brackets?

-Nin

I dont know that, maybe thats what everyone called him? I am no writing expert, but it seems like his Z matches closely to the Z in the yearbook over his photo.

Zabagliona wrote:

[quote="morf13]

He couldnt trace back to the person that first brought his name up (we dont even know the real ID of the person that brought him up over 10 years ago (or why they brought him up).

A sample of a letter to ZODE could read as follows:

"Mr.__ Please read this letter with an open mind, and know that I am not writing to you to cause you any grief, or harm. I am researching the case of the Zodiac killer. There have been many names of possible Zodiac suspects brought up over the years. Somehow, your name was brought up over 10 years ago, and lately, your name has come up again. Please understand, I am not accusing you of having anything to do with the Zodiac crimes, or ANY crimes. I merely would like to see your name cleared, and the truth come out to end any speculation. Would you be open to answering some questions that would help end any ongoing speculation sorrounding your name? Please let me know. Please contact me and I will respect your descision either way. If you choose to answer some questions, I would see to it that your answers will be shared to help keep your name from being associated with the Zodiac, and I will guarantee that your name, ID, and personal info will not be shared in any way. If you ask me not to contact you again, I will respect your wishes. But I hope you will communicate with me to help clear any misconceptions that have led people to bring your name up in ZOdiac conversation"

You could potentially get in hot water for this regarding Internet libel laws regarding placing a private figure in a "false light"...
[/quote]

I am not an attorney...and I wont be sending him this letter. I was merely suggesting that if anyone did in fact attempt to write to him, this would be a non-threatening or non-harassing way of doing so.

Hey look, it worked for Butterfield. He solved the Hautz mystery...didnt he?

Zabagliona wrote:

Hey, looks like you borrowed something that was posted on ZKfacts.com