"ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

Thanks! Belli was something of an egotistical showman, IMO, so I would like to see if his account of the incident is the same as Zode's. But based on what you just posted, I can Belli's claim that Zode was in the front row ans rushed up to shake his hand and gush being accurate.

tracers wrote:

Thanks! Belli was something of an egotistical showman, IMO, so I would like to see if his account of the incident is the same as Zode's. But based on what you just posted, I can Belli's claim that Zode was in the front row ans rushed up to shake his hand and gush being accurate.

Thats a good point, he seems like if he was in the room with Belli, he would have been star-struck.

I can't put my hands on it right now, but I do remember a newspaper piece at the time quoting some psychologist's analysis of Zodiac....he was of the opinion that Zodiac would be the type of person to "identify"/become obsessed with a famous person!
I'll have to see if I can find the full piece again.

Wasn't there something about Zode using the crosshair symbol, like on a blackboard or something? He can explain away the Zodiac name as having something to do with horoscopes, but if in fact he also used the crosshair symbol that has nothing to do with horoscope enthusiasts...
It is hard to believe that this guy once in the presence of Belli and answering questions from him, and then would have total disinterest in the case from there on out.

bayarea60s wrote:

Wasn't there something about Zode using the crosshair symbol, like on a blackboard or something? He can explain away the Zodiac name as having something to do with horoscopes, but if in fact he also used the crosshair symbol that has nothing to do with horoscope enthusiasts...
It is hard to believe that this guy once in the presence of Belli and answering questions from him, and then would have total disinterest in the case from there on out.

That's the problem Bay. This guy admits to using the name ZODIAC. He doesnt deny it. And from his writing, and in talking to him, he does seem to have a strong interest in Melvin Belli. But he told me flat out, he did NOT write any weird symbols on a black board in front of a class as Graysmith describes, and he did NOT ever use the term "this is the Zodiac speaking".

So we may have a case of Zode really using that nickname in school. Then when the Z murders happened, a fellow student remembered Zode, and added the part about the symbols, chalkboard, threats on other students, etc, just to make it sound better. ALso, in the Belli book, Belli states that he went up to Zode and asked him point blank, "Are you the Zodiac killer?". Zode also denies that happened, and also denies that police ever questioned him. Some urban legends have some sort of roots in fact. The fact this guy also seems overly interested in Belli may be just a coincidence, but then again, maybe it is not.

I dont know what to make of Zode, but something tells me, he is not giving me the entire story. I plan to be in touch with him again, so let's see if he tells us more.

In the book ZODIAC UNMASKED, Graysmith wrote of Kathleen Johns,
"The pregnant woman and her baby girl had been abducted en route to Petaluma from her Compus Way, San Bernardino home".

I looked and did not find a COMPUS WAY in San Bernardino, I did however find a CAMPUS WAY. I assume this is simply a mistake by Graysmith.

Anyhow, that street is awfully close to Zode's street. Does anyone know the exact address Johns lived at on Campus Way?

As you know some folks it takes them a while to feel comfortable to share cause they fear person may burn them, o whatever reasons goes on in their minds....

morf13 wrote:

In the book ZODIAC UNMASKED, Graysmith wrote of Kathleen Johns,
"The pregnant woman and her baby girl had been abducted en route to Petaluma from her Compus Way, San Bernardino home".

I looked and did not find a COMPUS WAY in San Bernardino, I did however find a CAMPUS WAY. I assume this is simply a mistake by Graysmith.

Anyhow, that street is awfully close to Zode's street. Does anyone know the exact address Johns lived at on Campus Way?

Howard has recent photos of that Campus Way home on his site. I can't see any house numbers in the photo though.

http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection.com/victim_johns.html

Seagull wrote:

morf13 wrote:

In the book ZODIAC UNMASKED, Graysmith wrote of Kathleen Johns,
"The pregnant woman and her baby girl had been abducted en route to Petaluma from her Compus Way, San Bernardino home".

I looked and did not find a COMPUS WAY in San Bernardino, I did however find a CAMPUS WAY. I assume this is simply a mistake by Graysmith.

Anyhow, that street is awfully close to Zode's street. Does anyone know the exact address Johns lived at on Campus Way?

Howard has recent photos of that Campus Way home on his site. I can't see any house numbers in the photo though.

http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection.com/victim_johns.html

Thanks for that, maybe Howard can chime in here with the address.

According to Johns, she described Z as "age 26-30 with crew cut hair, weight in the 160's, and 5ft 8, with glasses that had an elastic band". Some of that lines up with ZODE, but Zode would have been 24 at the time.

847 Campus Way - it's on the PD reports.

tahoe27 wrote:

847 Campus Way - it's on the PD reports.

Thanks. The distance from ZODE's house to the house Johns lived in was about 2.85 miles away( a straight road with one turn is what divided the two homes). Obviously, if Johns knew ZODE, she could have identified him, and she didnt. But I wonder if he knew her?? It has always interested me, even before I knew of ZODE, that she was driving up to the bay area from San Bernardino, and her attacker came from behind her, as if he too, was coming from the same direction.

That's a long ass way though. I don't think whoever took KJ on her ride knew her. They would have had to know she was leaving, and when she was leaving...make sure they had a full tank of gas so they didn't lose her if they had to stop for gas, etc. And of course she obviously didn't know the person--personally at least.

tahoe27 wrote:

That's a long ass way though. I don't think whoever took KJ on her ride knew her. They would have had to know she was leaving, and when she was leaving...make sure they had a full tank of gas so they didn't lose her if they had to stop for gas, etc. And of course she obviously didn't know the person--personally at least.

You are right about that Tahoe. I just thought it was of interest, that a guy that called himself Zodiac, and had a Belli interest, lived that close to her. Short of stalking her, it would be hard to tail someone that far.

Kathleen Johns was shown many pictures of several different suspects.
Out of all she was shown, she picked out Larry Kane as looking the most like her abductor. Or at least it was the same man I picked out of the picture line up, that was shown to me as well . (Not at the same time.) We were shown the same line up ,a few months apart.
This guy just happens to still be living, and he is the same man I took a picture of.

The police told me I should take his picture sense I see him so often, that might make him stop bothering me. It didn't, it only made him more upset !
We can forget about "Zode" being the man Kathleen was followed by .

Maybe some day we can take a long look at the man she and I got away from ? Who was also the man that Darlene was so afraid of. Unless you think that Darlene was killed at random, by someone other than thee Zodiac ?

Just finished reading all the developments to date.

The whole business with Belli is infuriatingly unclear. On one hand, 'Morton' confirms that there was a discussion between Ashwood and Belli regarding Morton possibly being Zodiac, which is consistent with what Belli relates. On the other hand, however, their respective stories end up diverging - Belli claims he went on to question Morton, while Morton denies any Zodiac-related talk occurred during Belli's visit (not the first time Morton mentions so; he never mentioned anything of the sort in his Inland Empire article, either).

It doesn't help at all that Belli's account of what the cops did is flat out weird. It doesn't sound at all like what police would do. One would expect them to personally interview an individual of interest, where they would then do things like size him up, listen to his voice, take his prints and glean handwriting samples (witness what was done with Leigh Allen, for instance) - not crowd around in mufti while a defense lawyer (the bane of cops everywhere) talks to the suspect. Belli also says that all the cops possessed as exclusionary evidence were handwriting samples. That doesn't line up at all with what we know. If anything, Belli's story is told in such a way that makes Belli himself the star of the show - something that makes me raise an incredulous eyebrow.

In the end, I don't know what to think about the Belli 'meeting'. I previously balked at the idea that it even happened, or if that Morton was the student in question. It now seems as though a small portion of it is true, at the very least - the bit about Ashwood using a student as a lure. Morton says the student was him - he seems a no-brainer choice. However, in keeping with my prior skepticism about Belli's story, part of me wonders if Belli came to the university on entirely innocent business and completely made up the Zodiac aspects of his account, Morton (who was never questioned or investigated) subsequently reading this tall tale in Belli's book and using parts of it as a self-aggrandizement of his own.

The only person who can clear up this whole mess is Ashman, or maybe someone else who was there during Belli's visit (can we locate and talk to them?). Which brings me to my next point - it's all well and good if Morton is innocent, but if he is the killer, who knows what comes out of his mouth is truth or lies. I also worry about the possibility of morf's interview spooking him into fleeing or destroying any 'souvenirs' he might have. LE should have been our first port of call where Morton is concerned; it's unfortunate that nobody in such circles seems willing to listen. Or are they? Perhaps someone ought to try again. I strongly suggest this.

Or maybe I'm just cheesed at the idea of us wasting time on a guy who was ruled out as far back as 1971.

Nachtsider wrote:

Just finished reading all the developments to date.

The whole business with Belli is infuriatingly unclear. On one hand, 'Morton' confirms that there was a discussion between Ashwood and Belli regarding Morton possibly being Zodiac, which is consistent with what Belli relates. On the other hand, however, their respective stories end up diverging - Belli claims he went on to question Morton, while Morton denies any Zodiac-related talk occurred during Belli's visit (not the first time Morton mentions so; he never mentioned anything of the sort in his Inland Empire article, either).

It doesn't help at all that Belli's account of what the cops did is flat out weird. It doesn't sound at all like what police would do. One would expect them to personally interview an individual of interest, where they would then do things like size him up, listen to his voice, take his prints and glean handwriting samples (witness what was done with Leigh Allen, for instance) - not crowd around in mufti while a defense lawyer (the bane of cops everywhere) talks to the suspect. Belli also says that all the cops possessed as exclusionary evidence were handwriting samples. That doesn't line up at all with what we know. If anything, Belli's story is told in such a way that makes Belli himself the star of the show - something that makes me raise an incredulous eyebrow.

In the end, I don't know what to think about the Belli 'meeting'. I previously balked at the idea that it even happened, or if that Morton was the student in question. It now seems as though a small portion of it is true, at the very least - the bit about Ashwood using a student as a lure. Morton says the student was him - he seems a no-brainer choice. However, in keeping with my prior skepticism about Belli's story, part of me wonders if Belli came to the university on entirely innocent business and completely made up the Zodiac aspects of his account, Morton (who was never questioned or investigated) subsequently reading this tall tale in Belli's book and using parts of it as a self-aggrandizement of his own.

The only person who can clear up this whole mess is Ashman, or maybe someone else who was there during Belli's visit (can we locate and talk to them?). Which brings me to my next point - it's all well and good if Morton is innocent, but if he is the killer, who knows what comes out of his mouth is truth or lies. I also worry about the possibility of morf's interview spooking him into fleeing or destroying any 'souvenirs' he might have. LE should have been our first port of call where Morton is concerned; it's unfortunate that nobody in such circles seems willing to listen. Or are they? Perhaps someone ought to try again. I strongly suggest this.

Or maybe I'm just cheesed at the idea of us wasting time on a guy who was ruled out as far back as 1971.

NACH, some good points of view. Personally, to me, there is no doubt that at least some of what we have heard & read about ZODE is based in truth. And it fascinates me greatly that a guy from the Riverside/San Bernardino area, with a great interest in Belli, called himself ZODIAC.
I hope I dont scare him off by questioning him. He seems okay with responding and clearing his name, and I hope he will give us more to work with. I still feel that there is something he is not telling, or holding back. If the Belli meeting went as Belli described it, then ZODE may be embarrassed or ashamed, and could be not telling us about it. It doesnt mean he is guilty. In the end, even if Belli was telling the truth, Belli ended the paragraph by saying that "the police didnt think the kid was zodiac, neither did I". So either way, perhaps ZODE wasnt involved. But that still does nt discourage interest in this guy because a fellow friend or classmate of his may have been Zodiac. If this guy really was picked on, and sort of a social out cast, and does fit the Zodiac profile in some ways, then perhaps his few friends in school were also picked on and exposed to the same things, and perhaps one of them went on to become Zodiac. I even went as far as to make a list of all the male students in his school with the initials R.H. to see if that got anylace, but that was too big a project to do on my own.

morf13 wrote:

If the Belli meeting went as Belli described it, then ZODE may be embarrassed or ashamed, and could be not telling us about it. It doesnt mean he is guilty. In the end, even if Belli was telling the truth, Belli ended the paragraph by saying that "the police didnt think the kid was zodiac, neither did I". So either way, perhaps ZODE wasnt involved.

If the meeting went as Belli described it, you'd think Morton would be eager to make full mention. After all, it ended with him being ruled out as a suspect - at least according to Belli. But Morton flat out denies the occurrence of an event capable of dropping him from the suspect radar. Very odd. I don't know if such behavior would be consistent with a guilty man or an innocent one.

Where is Ashman now? Or the cops who were supposedly involved in this rigmarole (heck, we don't even know which department they came from)? Grilling Belli would've been a great option, but he's long gone. A lot of questions need answering.

Nachtsider wrote:

morf13 wrote:

If the Belli meeting went as Belli described it, then ZODE may be embarrassed or ashamed, and could be not telling us about it. It doesnt mean he is guilty. In the end, even if Belli was telling the truth, Belli ended the paragraph by saying that "the police didnt think the kid was zodiac, neither did I". So either way, perhaps ZODE wasnt involved.

If the meeting went as Belli described it, you'd think Morton would be eager to make full mention. After all, it ended with him being ruled out as a suspect - at least according to Belli. But Morton flat out denies the occurrence of an event capable of dropping him from the suspect radar. Very odd. I don't know if such behavior would be consistent with a guilty man or an innocent one.

Where is Ashman now? Or the cops who were supposedly involved in this rigmarole (heck, we don't even know which department they came from)? Grilling Belli would've been a great option, but he's long gone. A lot of questions need answering.

Thats true...it would have been the perfect chance for ZODE to say "hey, it happened, and I was cleared, just like Belli said". I certainly would love to know more, and would think it would be great if we had fellow classmates that could verify this info.

Did you ask "Zode" if he happens to remember anyone else who was there during the event with Belli?

Ricardo wrote:

Did you ask "Zode" if he happens to remember anyone else who was there during the event with Belli?

I didnt, but as I said, I think I have an open line of communication with him, I can try to find that out. Maybe he has a class roster or yearbook of some sort?

Morf I'm sure you are aware that a poster by the name of Katana9Q at ZK was the person who injected life into this little known story of a boy who had nicknamed himself Zodiac in high school. Did Zode ask you any questions about the how, who, when what and where the current story about him came to be? Does he have any idea who Katana9Q could be and why after all these years s/he would want to implicate him in something that seemed to be a non-starter in the first place all over again?

As for the Belli story, I lean towards Nacht's thoughts on this. I think Belli embellished(!) what would otherwise be a rather uninspiring story. He was known for his dramatic flair.

Seagull wrote:

Morf I'm sure you are aware that a poster by the name of Katana9Q at ZK was the person who injected life into this little known story of a boy who had nicknamed himself Zodiac in high school. Did Zode ask you any questions about the how, who, when what and where the current story about him came to be? Does he have any idea who Katana9Q could be and why after all these years s/he would want to implicate him in something that seemed to be a non-starter in the first place all over again?

As for the Belli story, I lean towards Nacht's thoughts on this. I think Belli embellished(!) what would otherwise be a rather uninspiring story. He was known for his dramatic flair.

ZODE did not ask me at all how his name came up. He did not ask much of anything. I did not get into how I tracked him down, only that I found the stuff on the net about him.

As far as Katana, I always thought that KATANA was the one that sent this anonymous email about ZODE-
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/575cc4b6e04f2f6/8d4f689f0ac4baea?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=zodiac+killer

But I was informed that he was not the author of the email. If KATANA wasnt the author of the email, then we have two different people saying some of the same things about ZODE. If anyone knows KATANA, he is welcome & invited to this forum to discuss ZODE.

As I've pointed out before, I doubt Katana and that anonymous poster are the same person. Katana's a military guy (intelligence, I believe), sounding very confident and unafraid every time he posts. This other individual is scared Morton might come after them; I'd bet money they're female.

I invited Katana to join us here ages ago. He hasn't responded at all.

Nachtsider wrote:

As I've pointed out before, I doubt Katana and that anonymous poster are the same person. Katana's a military guy (intelligence, I believe), sounding very confident and unafraid every time he posts. This other individual is scared Morton might come after them; I'd bet money they're female.

I invited Katana to join us here ages ago. He hasn't responded at all.

I dont know Katana from a hole in the wall. That being said, "if" Katana, for some reason unknown to us, had a reason to setup ZODE or build up a false case against ZODE, then maybe he would have a reason to make himself look like 2 different people, his confident strong self, and a scared nervous poster of the anonymous email. Again, I am not accusing KATANA of doing any such thing. I would love to hear from him directly. Also, if anyone does indeed know the identity of the person who posted the anonymous email, by all means please invite them here too.

I will admit to being curious as to why Katana initially started out with a bang then quit posting all together. Katana made a total of 14 posts at ZK, the last one in Oct. 2008. I have seen Katana's name at the bottom of the index page frequently and recently. I can't really say that I buy Katana's stated employment Occupation: Counterintelligence/Counterespionage on their profile page either. Seems to me if your in that business it's not something you advertise. And too many trolls have played that "cop card" in the past!