"ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

I belive it was written in purple, i have a footbal siged by 1998 kstate football team...signed originally in ALL PURPLE...DARK PURPLE....all signatures look pink now. Signed with a sharpie back in 1998....willl post a pre and recent photo later when i dig out football. Color is exact match to those sig's originallly signed in dark purple...school color.

In fact...pink wasnt even an option back then in a felt tip/sharpie type pen. which the "zodiac" looks like it was Signed wth. Not trying to diss anyone...just adding my personal experience...other research is awesome!

Thanks for sharing Morf, and Great job!

Notice the purple Kstate logo....signatures in 1998 appeared exactly in that color...faded to pink now. Just a lil factoid.
Vin

Vindog wrote:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/Vinners/DSC08610.jpg

Notice the purple Kstate logo....signatures in 1998 appeared exactly in that color...faded to pink now. Just a lil factoid.
Vin

Thanks Vin, for sharing. Yeah purple looks to turn pink. When was the pink felt maker invented, anyone know?

I just spent an hour on the phone with ZODE...

Wow, so much to think about. First off, his voice.....no comment other than it is one that stands out,and seems like one I would remember if I heard it again, it did have a certain pattern or cadence.. And for those people that know alot about him, and his background, he seems to be book smart, and maybe a bit "shy" around people, or sort of not the most social person.

Well, for the dirt, here is what I have from him:

He does not know the names, nor has he ever met CHERI JO BATES, KATHLEEN JOHNS, or MARY PATRICIA HAUTZ (or so he claims, even pulling out a yearbook to look up Hautz). He stated that he did not even know half of his class because they had like 12-1500 seniors that year, which I believe to be true. He said that he never heard of the Cheri Jo Bates case,and although he had previously lived in Riverside in the early 60's, he did not go there much after high school. At the time of the Bates murder, he claims he was a student at San Bernardino college.

Regarding calling himself Zodiac:
He stated that he called himself that in junior high because of the popularity of zodiac signs, horoscopes, etc at the time. He said that it was easier to be called Zodiac than use his last name which most people pronounced wrong. He said he NEVER wrote any weird symbols on the blackboard in front of the class, and that he NEVER used the phrase "this is the Zodiac speaking". The Graysmith book also described Zode as having glasses with an elastic band. ZODE says that he did NOT wear glasses while in school that he can remember, but he does wear them as an adult.

Regarding any connection to the bay area:
He says that he has never been to Vallejo or Napa, but he says he had been in San Fran several times in his life.

Regarding the Belli incident at Riverside College:
He says that the guy that ran the school, Ashwood "used" Zode to draw Belli there to talk to students. He went on to say that to his knowledge, Belli was only there to discuss legal stuff. He stated that at no point did Belli ever ask him if he was the Zodiac killer. He also stated that at no time did any police question him about any crimes. He said he was not aware that Zodiac wrote Belli any letters.

Some odds & ends:
While his personality or statements arent evidence of anything, he seemed to be what most people would probably consider, and odd person. He talked a few times about various tv shows from the 50's and 60's (none that were popular enough to stand out in my mind). At one point he even imitated one of the characters from a show...(I am serious). He was the type of person who would go on and on, and give precise details....at one time I had to interupt him. He mentioned the Fox Riverside Theater down in his area (why I cant recall).He seemed to not know much about the details of the Z case, including exact dates or time frames. He said some friends teased him saying he was the Zodiac killer. I didnt want to jump on him, but I called him out as to how fellow students would call him the Zodiac killer since the Zodiac killer would not be known to the public until 4 years after he graduated, and he said that the friends must have teased him after high school. He also seemed to remember the possibiloty that Z was responsible for crimes in the earky 60's but didnt know the details. He said that his Mom warned him that using the nickname 'Zodiac' would one day get him into trouble. He didnt elaborate on that, and due to shortage of time, I didnt press him. He also used the terms "house of cards" & "leo the lion" (same as in the letter), more than once. He said that he really didnt follow the Z case very closely, and it wasnt big news in southern CA.

In closing, I dont know what to make of him. He seems to be a guy that was not pouplar in highschool, and got picked on and was not successful with women. I dont think he is married nor does he have kids, and he lived with his parents up until their deaths, and still lives in their house. I thought it was actually possible that some mean-spirited ex-classmate made all this up as a hoax, or to further torment Zode all these years later. That is why i was blown away when he verified in his letter that he did call himself Zodiac, and he DID have some sort of meeting with Belli in the Riverside classroom.

It seems that some of what we have read about Zode is true, and some is exagerated, but had some basis in truth.

In the end, I dont know what to think. On one hand, he seems to be telling the truth. But here is the troubling part-
When I wrote to Zode, I simply mentioned that his name came up in converstaions and research regarding the Z case. That was it. But then, he wrote me back a letter going into great detail about the Riverside meeting with Belli, etc. I had not mentioned Belli, or Riverside in my letter to him. Why did he bring that up in the letter he sent me?? He claims he didnt know Zodiac mailed Belli a letter, and he claimed that he didnt know about the Bates case in Riverside, or the desktop poem.Yet here he is talking about Belli & Riverside in his letter to me.

My gut feeling is that he is hiding something, and that he really DID know his name was mentioned in Zodiac circles. He may have been lying to me just for kicks, I dont know. Anyway, he did not seem overly concerned that his name was out there on the net. As a matter of fact, when I explained that it was more a description of him and his actions, instead of his actual name, he seemed to care even less. He did ask what book he could find the Pacific High School & riverside/belli incidents in, and I told him ZODIAC by Graysmith & My Life On Trial by Belli.

He said that he did not know of any friends or fellow students that had moved From his area up to the bay area around the time the Z murders started.

Well done Morf. I'd be very interested in knowing what a psychologist would make of his conversation with you and the letter he typed. Do we know anyone that could maybe give a professional opinion on these?

I'm not that surprised he brought up the Belli incident. After all, he randomly brought that up in his letter to Inland Empire magazine as well. While there are plenty of folks that don't know about the Zodiac case, it's curious that he claims almost complete ignorance on the subject, going so far as to mention in his letter to you that he didn't even know there was still an unsolved case. I'm not TRYING to make it seem like he's hiding anything... maybe he truly just doesn't know. But interesting nonetheless.

-tbz

thebigZ wrote:

I'm not that surprised he brought up the Belli incident. After all, he randomly brought that up in his letter to Inland Empire magazine as well. While there are plenty of folks that don't know about the Zodiac case, it's curious that he claims almost complete ignorance on the subject, going so far as to mention in his letter to you that he didn't even know there was still an unsolved case. I'm not TRYING to make it seem like he's hiding anything... maybe he truly just doesn't know. But interesting nonetheless.

-tbz

BIGZ, thats what I cant grasp.

When I wrote him, I basically said that his name had come up in Zodiac case discussions, and would he be open to talking about it. I did not tell him any Zodiac case facts, and I did not mention Belli, Bates, or Riverside. Then he writes back the "Belli at Riverside college" stuff in his letter. On the phone, he denied knowing that Belli had ever received a letter from Zodiac, yet he felt the need to write about Belli in his letter, and talk about Belli on the phone. My gut feeling is that he was leaving some info out. I am certainly not saying he was Z, but something is amiss.

morf13 wrote:

I just spent an hour on the phone with ZODE...

is right! Did you ever think you would type that sentence?

I am glad you took the initiative and did something! Thank you for sharing. Wow...

tahoe27 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

I just spent an hour on the phone with ZODE...

is right! Did you ever think you would type that sentence?

I am glad you took the initiative and did something! Thank you for sharing. Wow...

I wish I had more, or could form a better opinion, but I am still scratching my head.

morf13 wrote:

BREAKING NEWS:I have been working on contact with 'ZODE', the POI from San Bernardino, CA. He was the student that went to school with Patricia Hautz, and was said to have written a Zodiac symbol on the chalkboard, and called himself Zodiac, as well as using the phrase "this is the Zodiac speaking", years before Zodiac used it. Well, I have heard back from him, and frankly, I was blown away! He verified the stories, at least to an extent. He freely admits he was using the name Zodiac! He also verified that he was at the Belli meeting in Riverside in which police ambushed him asking him if he was the Zodiac. There were things in the letter that seem truthful, but some things that may be less than truthful. For example, he says that he used the name ZODIAC since Jr High, and that in 1961 or 1962 the "infamous murders" happened,and people started ridiculing him for the name ZODIAC. But the Zodiac murders had not happened yet, so why would they be teasing him about using the name of a killer? Opinions please:



I will be doing a followup with him. Any ideas or suggestions for material to cover with him? He seems pretty cooperative and open.

Okay raise your hands if you didnt know what 'nonsubstantive' meant. I didnt either. I looked it up:
found at http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/417852/nonsubstantive-process it means,

motion-picture film technology (in motion-picture technology: Film)
In what is called the nonsubstantive subsequent process, the dye couplers are introduced in a second development. Each colour layer is treated separately. Uniform red light is applied (from the bottom up) to expose the undeveloped silver halide in the red layer. It has no effect on the other layers because of their insensitivity to red. The film is processed with a developer containing a...


This was interesting, but Zode also has a paralegal background, and it is also a term used by paralegals, so it may not be as interesting.
"paralegal will work on the legal matter, what the paralegal's fee will be, and whether the client will be billed for any nonsubstantive work performed by"

One thing that is weird is how he stated that the case wasnt solved after 49-50 years....very very specific. Most people would say an estimate of 40-50 years, or 45-50 years, but a precise 49-50 years is weird.

Zode is a LEO as he stressed in his letter.

In December, 1969, Zodiac possibly sent the "bleeding knife of Zodiac" along with page 59 of an astrology book, and a horoscope forecast for LEO in one single mailing. Seen in the Graysmith book found here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8Wm6fvRvEqIC&lpg=PA222&ots=21CQ-CBZy9&dq=%22leo%20%22%20%22zodiac%20killer%22&pg=PA222#v=onepage&q=%22leo%20%22%20%22zodiac%20killer%22&f=false

Great work Morf!

Another major scoop by Morf and ZodiacKillerSite!

Remember "Zodiac" also sent a CANCER card as well. And since those cards have no real handwriting on them, we really don't know who sent them.

Given this man's last name is a foreign sounding hard to pronounce name starting with "Z", I can see how as he says the "Zodiac" nickname started. Before the killer, horoscopes and Zodiacs were a pretty big craze. Am I being naive, or does that sound like a reason the "Zodiac" name was used by him?

IMO, the letter sounds (mostly) legit.

Also, it is hard for me to get over the fact that this skinny, narrow faced dark complected Arabic kid looks absolutely nothing like any of the Zodiac sketches.

I do understand the interest in this suspect, and the possible connection to Hautz, the Belli factor, etc.

However, I would like to do some side by sides. The sketches can be questioned as to accuracy, but they to provide some value IMO. The basic face structure seems OK though more longish and narrower, ears are OK, but the big glaring problems would be hair and skin color and tone. Nobody reported Z as looking Arabic, Middle Eastern, Mexican, Latin or otherwise dark complected, or having jet black wavy hair.

This guy just does not look like any of the sketches or witness descriptions.

Though that alone should not rule him totally out, given other factors of interest and unreliability of witness descriptions. But IMO it creates a major strike against regarding him as a serious suspect. I don't know for sure how police would react, but I think they would not get too excited about him, given the mismatch against the sketches and descriptions.

But I do think this guy should be investigated, just wanted to see what it looks like side by side.


He seems a total mismatch against the SF Zodiac sketch IMO. If the SF sketch is the Zodiac, I don't see how this guy could be him. Absent total theatrical make up do over.

He is at least a little more similar to the sketches of the Nancy Bennallack suspect and the Zodiac Napa composite. In these sketches, the face seems a little longer and narrower, and the hair is darker. He doesn't really look like either sketch IMO, but you couldn't rule him out. Some things match. But we don't know for sure if Bennallack was a Zodiac victim, or if the Napa Composite man was Zodiac.

morf13 wrote:

Zabagliona wrote:

Remember, Z said he only "looked a certain way" when he "did his thing"....hypothetically, this guy could have kept his darker longer hair when he wore the hood, and could have gotten a buzzcut and dyed it before he "did his thing."

As far as Welsh people go, that is NOT correct. Just like the Irish who can be very fair with blue eyes, or black haired and darker, so can welshmen...Tom Jones, for example is Welsh, and when he was younger looked like this: (God help me, DO NOT SAY ANNNYTHING ABOUT HIS CLOTHES!!ROFL!)

I knew it would happen, someone would break out the Tom Jones pics.....it's not unusual... But seriously, a good point.

Looking back at the time the Zodiac was spotted. It was not only Tom Jones who was known as being Welsh, but another biggie at that time was Richard Burton. A more rounder face like Z was said to have, by people who saw the man who supposedly was the man Darlene knew and who watched her , (when ever he was in the area from out of state.)

The welsh thing never really impressed me. Welsh people can look italian, etc...plus I know a welsh girl who is light skinned, basically white and has light brown hair. WELSH is too broad a term when describing someone. But welsh people can be darker skin too. So who knows what Fouke really meant?

Also, regarding Zode's yearbook photos, since they are not in color, we really dont know his skin tone. As far as size & stature, we dont know what he looked like in 1969. These yearbook photos of Zode were taken 4-6 years before the z case. The summer after I graduated high school, I had a growth spurt and grew 2-3 inches, and put on about 30 pounds. When I met up with some friends that I went to school with, they commented on how much I changed. A haircut, glasses, etc would certainly change someone's appearance.

My main problem with this guy was that he was 23 years old at the time of the Z murders, and to me, it seems a little young. The ammended Z sketch put Z at 35-45 years old.
But still ,there is too much interesting stuff about this guy, so I will keep looking.

The first Zodiac poster did say 25 to 35. And Mageau said 25 to 30, and Johns said 30. Age is a hard thing for people to guess right. 23 is a little younger than we would think for Zodiac, but not by much. I have more of a problem with what appears to be his narrow face and darker complection. I don't say he should be ruled out by those factors, but they do matter IMO.

AK Wilks wrote:

The first Zodiac poster did say 25 to 35. And Mageau said 25 to 30, and Johns said 30. Age is a hard thing for people to guess right. 23 is a little younger than we would think for Zodiac, but not by much. I have more of a problem with what appears to be his narrow face and darker complection. I don't say he should be ruled out by those factors, but they do matter IMO.

I think the ammendment putting the age closer to 35-45 was based on clarification by the kids and/or Fouke.

While I think 23 was too young for Z, that would have been around Cheri Jo's age. So perhaps, if Z was a fellow student or friend of hers, he may have actually been Cheri's age.

Age is so hard to guess though. In particular when you see the suspect for mere seconds, from a distance, in bad light. As an example, a woman saw the Unabomber plant a bomb in Utah in 1987, and told police he looked 25 to 30. In fact, Kaczynski was 45 years old! She was off by 15 to 20 years!

People age differently. 23 is a little young, but not out of the ballpark. I think Fouke said 35 to 45, and the kids thought mostly younger.

I still have a problem with the narrow long face and the darker complection. Also, we don't know if he has any expertise or interest in codes, bombs, guns. He doesn't seem to have a criminal record, or mental illness, but that doesn't prove anything of course. Other than the fact that he called himself "Zodiac", with a given innocent (perhaps questionable) explanation by him, there isn't much in the way of hard evidence against him. Though we have the curious Hautz and Belli links.

Also, his name has a "water" connection, and there were clues Zodiac may have had a water connection in his target selection.

But this scoop provides some new evidence to consider, for sure.

He did look rather thin in those early photos but we'd really need to see a photo of Zode half a decade later to be able to comment properly. I seem to remember he is particularly round faced now so it's always possible that he had started to fill out somewhat by 1969.

Some years ago I bumped into a guy I was in school with a few years before. I was actually standing next to him in the toilet in a bar when he said hello and I didn't recognise him as he was small and skinny at 17 but was absolutely huge some 6 years later. I asked him what the hell happened and he said that a couple of years in prison definitely had advantages.

He'd obviously had a late teen growth spurt and I guessed he meant that he had spent most of his time inside doing weights but I did wonder if he had easy access to steroids too.

It is possible that “Zode” has more information, but he probably does not want to talk about anything that would be unfavorable to him. He probably would prefer that others just end the discussion. I do not think that he would like to have his photos on the message board. Maybe it is a good thing that he does not have internet access!

I do not consider “Zode” to be a suspect in the Zodiac case primarily because I do not think that the Zodiac would have called himself “Zodiac” if other people had known him by that name. Too risky.

However, I do think that it is possible that the Zodiac could have been inspired by someone else using the name “Zodiac”.

(If “Zode” ever thought about that possibility, he probably does not want to talk about it because then there would be more questions!)

I was surprised that “Zode” is confused about the facts of the Zodiac case, especially not knowing that it is still unsolved. I guess he missed all of the advertisements for the “Zodiac “ movie a couple of years ago.

This is an example of how there are people who lived in California during the time of the Zodiac murders who are uninformed about what happened. And some of them may have knowledge related to the Zodiac case that they do not even realize!

I considered posting or not posting Zode's high school photos. Since this site is private, I decided to post them--although I am aware there is a chance someone will post them elsewhere. Also, I did find them at a public site. I did not post his name. If Morf or AK feels it inappropriate, please remove them.

If you do contact him again, I would be interested to get his recollections/perspective on the Belli encounter. He writes that Ashland used him as a lure to get Belli to the college. When did Zode realize this? Before the event, or after? HOW did he become aware? Belli says that Zode jumped up after the event, shook his hand, and that Belli then asked him if he were the Zodiac--or something to that effect. It would be interesting to see if Zode remembers the encounter differently, or if his recollections back up what Belli wrote. Belli also wrote that Zode was in the front and surrounded by cops in plain clothes trying to blend in. I wonder if Zode was ever aware of that.

tracers wrote:

If you do contact him again, I would be interested to get his recollections/perspective on the Belli encounter. He writes that Ashland used him as a lure to get Belli to the college. When did Zode realize this? Before the event, or after? HOW did he become aware? Belli says that Zode jumped up after the event, shook his hand, and that Belli then asked him if he were the Zodiac--or something to that effect. It would be interesting to see if Zode remembers the encounter differently, or if his recollections back up what Belli wrote. Belli also wrote that Zode was in the front and surrounded by cops in plain clothes trying to blend in. I wonder if Zode was ever aware of that.

Honestly, ZOde was gushing about Belli. I could have talked a whole hour just about Belli. I dont think it would be an issue talking more with him, and I can try to get more on that.