"I was once a roommate of the Zodiac Killer" Roommate was Jim Crabtree

ziggyzee wrote:

well I beg to differ morf, that's all that has been going on I feel like everytime I post something I get heckeled

To be fair you did state that Jim was 5'9" to 6ft so a good fit for Z - except of course that Jim is actually 5'6". If you post incorrect facts you'll have to get used to people correcting you - they're not "heckling" you.

Quagmire wrote:

ziggyzee wrote:

well I beg to differ morf, that's all that has been going on I feel like everytime I post something I get heckeled

To be fair you did state that Jim was 5'9" to 6ft so a good fit for Z - except of course that Jim is actually 5'6". If you post incorrect facts you'll have to get used to people correcting you - they're not "heckling" you.

Too late,Ziggy is banned and not reading this

ziggyzee wrote:

... and p.s jim never commented on the letter you are wrong.

I understand ziggyzee is no longer subscribed to this site. However, I like to point out that he was wrong. This is what JC said prior to the site being shut down:

The letter with the return address is an absolute forgery... that's one reason I'm on this forum... First... misspellings.. duh... second, that's not my handwriting... not surprising it's been said and perpetrated that I'm dead for years, so a forged postcard is no big whup after living a Mark Twain quote... the symbol? get real... I'm a good boy brought up right.. I don't draw stuff like that on postcards...

-Nin

DANG:

I REALLY LIKE THAT ZODIAC WATCH... 0369

9

Thanks Nin. And thanks Morf. Ziggy was given warnings but ignored them. We live in a world of libel laws and internet forum rules. You think he would have learned this, as well as understood we discuss and debate here but do it in a civil and respectful way.

For the record, Tahoe does have more than a clue, she is a great researcher and contributor. Even though we disagree on many aspects of the case, she always operates with respect for those she disgarees with, and she has helped me with research several times, as has Seagull and many others here.

A lot of the things said about Crabtree are just false. He was not a satanist! And 5'6" is just too short for Zodiac. And he was cleared by police by handwriting and alibi. I don't mind that zz had a passionate minority point of view, but I do mind being fast and loose with the facts, and not being civil.

Anyway, we move on...

ziggyzee wrote:

you will have to ask sandy that morf I got it from her

I believe it was one of the things found at Jim's house when it was searched by LE. I have other hand printing of Jims from when he filled out different business license forms.
( An excellent way to get samples of writing by the way) That writing is a perfect match to Jim's. I was given a copy of this finger note from Howard a long time ago. So if someone else wrote it , it would have to be someone who could copy Jim's writing and then place it in his home near Santa Cruz.

Jim also used different middle names on these two licenses using the same address in the same printing, in case you want to argue that if his middle name was different, then how do I know it was the same person ? Mainly because it was from the same address in the same printing style.

Again I do not believe that Jim is the Zodiac, but he makes for a very good suspect just the same. I would like to see the proof that his finger prints and hand writing were actually checked against the Zodiac's. It is my understanding that he was eliminated as a Z suspect from VPD by his size alone, because of that GD faulty description at Lake Berryessa. Most everyone here has their own suspect, we let them write what they feel about their POI, so lets let Ziggyzee have his say.

I have read about other poi's that are far less more convincing that Ziggy's.

I found this rather interesting , last night I had dinner with a guy who told me he was way over weight. I asked him how much did he weigh ? He was 5 ft 9 and weighed 205. He looked taller to me and about 170 pounds.
I also remembered that in 1990 I reported my suspect as 6ft or 6ft 2inches ( I don't remember the weight I reported ) but it was because of his "long legs" that I thought he was much taller than he really was. It wasn't until he stood in front of me that I realized he was about 5ft 8 . So don't let wittiness's descriptions fool you, it can be deceiving.

I too am very skeptical of witness descriptions. See this post and watch the video:

https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t1089-eyewitness-testimony-how-accurate-is-it?highlight=eyewitness

So if a witness says 5'"10, 180 pounds, blue jacket, I would still consider suspects who were 5'8" to 6'0", 160 to 200 pounds and a black jacket.

But when you get several witness descriptions saying the same thing, I give them more wieght. As far as I know NONE of the witness descriptions of Zodiac put him as short as 5'6". All were in the 5'8" to 6'1" range, and most were 5'10" to 6'0". Add to that the police say his handwriting was a non-match. And they ruled him out through alibi.

I understand people have some interest in Jim as a suspect, and by his attitude and manner, he has not always helped ease the suspicion. But IMO when you look at the known evidence he is not a strong suspect. Also IMO he just did not care about Darlene, did not care enough to hate her or kill her, he had moved on with his life. He was not a satanist, he has no criminal record and does not fit the witness descriptions for facial features or height.

By all means people will still look at him, and zz was fine to be passionate about it, but not fine to insult people who disagree with him or violate libel laws again.

NIN--thank you for posting that. I knew Jim had commented about it. Whether truthful or not, he commented. If Ziggy knew so much, how come he didn't know that? It was on his own message board?

AK--Thank you for your kind words. I question a lot of things, but it certainly doesn't make me right...or wrong.

SANDY--Ziggy did have his say. Once you get pissy and call all of us a joke, bye-bye! I just pointed out a different perspective. If all people with POI's are looking for is "yah, yah, you are right", then what's the point of a discussion? Hey, you might convince me of something, but I will question you!

***

Is it reasonable to consider Jim? Hell yes! There is nothing wrong with anyone with a POI, but don't get pissed off when someone questions things!!

sandy betts wrote:

ziggyzee wrote:

you will have to ask sandy that morf I got it from her

I believe it was one of the things found at Jim's house when it was searched by LE. I have other hand printing of Jims from when he filled out different business license forms.
( An excellent way to get samples of writing by the way) That writing is a perfect match to Jim's. I was given a copy of this finger note from Howard a long time ago. So if someone else wrote it , it would have to be someone who could copy Jim's writing and then place it in his home near Santa Cruz.<snip>

I'm sure I've just had my head in my duffel bag too long, but who is Howard? Also, if I may ask, how did you come into possession of a piece of evidence (the alleged correspondence mentioned above) ? Not saying I doubt you but I've never heard of a cop handing out evidence (if that's indeed what happened). TIA

patinky wrote:

sandy betts wrote:

ziggyzee wrote:

you will have to ask sandy that morf I got it from her

I believe it was one of the things found at Jim's house when it was searched by LE. I have other hand printing of Jims from when he filled out different business license forms.
( An excellent way to get samples of writing by the way) That writing is a perfect match to Jim's. I was given a copy of this finger note from Howard a long time ago. So if someone else wrote it , it would have to be someone who could copy Jim's writing and then place it in his home near Santa Cruz.<snip>

I'm sure I've just had my head in my duffel bag too long, but who is Howard? Also, if I may ask, how did you come into possession of a piece of evidence (the alleged correspondence mentioned above) ? Not saying I doubt you but I've never heard of a cop handing out evidence like that (if that's indeed what happened). TIA

Sandy, is there a way you can post or pm me some handwriting samples of Jim please?

Thanks, Nin

patinky wrote:

sandy betts wrote:

ziggyzee wrote:

you will have to ask sandy that morf I got it from her

I believe it was one of the things found at Jim's house when it was searched by LE. I have other hand printing of Jims from when he filled out different business license forms.
( An excellent way to get samples of writing by the way) That writing is a perfect match to Jim's. I was given a copy of this finger note from Howard a long time ago. So if someone else wrote it , it would have to be someone who could copy Jim's writing and then place it in his home near Santa Cruz.<snip>

I'm sure I've just had my head in my duffel bag too long, but who is Howard? Also, if I may ask, how did you come into possession of a piece of evidence (the alleged correspondence mentioned above) ? Not saying I doubt you but I've never heard of a cop handing out evidence like that (if that's indeed what happened). TIA

I think Sandy is referring to Howard Davis a long time Zodiac researcher that believes in a Manson/Zodiac connection.

It's just like The movie, GONE WITH THE WIND. gOOD-BY ziggyzee, another one bit the dust. p.s. i'm no joke.