Deborah Gay Furlong and Kathy Snoozy

San Francisco Chronicle
August 6, 1969 - front page

The 'Frenzy' Of San Jose Girls' Slayer

The two young girls, found dead Sunday on a sun-parched San Jose hillside, appear to have been victims of a sexual psychopath, whose blood frenzy led him to "overkill."
Dr. John E. Hauser, Santa Clara county's chief medical examiner and coroner, said yesterday that the girls, Deborah Gay Furlong, 14, and Kathy Snoozy, 15, died in a "frenzied flurry of knife-wounds" inflicted so swiftly that neither gave any evidence of having struggled against the attack.
Dr. Hauser, so shaken by the brutality of the crime he could scarcely find words, said the Snoozy youngster had 150 wounds on her back, 50 on the front and a "storm" of punctures on her neck. Deborah's body had about 100 wounds on her back and upper front and a dozen on her neck.


PUZZLE

Dr. Hauser said he was "puzzled" by many aspects of the brutal slaying. He said neither girl had been sexually molested; neither had suffered any wounds below her waist, neither gave evidence of having struggled to escape.
Only the Snoozy girl, he said, had one small mark on her hand, suggesting she may have tried vainly to deflect the plunging knife.
The coroner said both girls must have died very quickly and he is investigating the possibility they may have been drugged before the stabbing began. Blood and skin samples as well as stomach contents have been sent for further examination to area laboratories, he said. The results should be known in a few days.
It is Dr. Hauser's opinion that the multiple puncture wounds were inflicted by one or two small knives, the largest wound the size of a pocket knife with a half-inch blade.
"I've never seen a case with this many stab wounds," Dr. Hauser said. "You know, I've been in this profession a long time and sometimes I think I'm rather callous, but when I saw these girls, believe me it was terrifying.
"The Nazi sex mutilations during World War II were nothing compared to what was done to these young girls.


INVESTIGATION

So far, according to Chief of San Jose Detectives Barton Collins, his investigators have uncovered no solid clues to the slaying.
He said police and sheriff's deputies are looking for a "light colored van—a Volkswagen, a Dodge, a Chevrolet or a Ford" in which the girls may have been killed and then rolled, carried or dragged down the hillside to a grove of snarled, dusty oaks where their bodies were found.
Both he and the coroner emphasized that at the scene there was almost no blood, suggesting they had been slain elsewhere.
Collins said he and his men have talked to at least 200 people so far, searching for some information that might draw them closer to the killer.
Asked if he were looking for a "mad man," Collins, pale and exhausted, snapped:
"I'm looking for a killer and it doesn't matter whether he was under drugs or what."
Collins did not mention this, but the Chronicle learned that wedged in between the two bodies of the dead girls police found a "new," but empty beer can. There was speculation the killer may have rolled or carried one girl down, then finished off a can of beer, and then disposed of the second body without noticing the can.
The scene, not more than six blocks from where the two girls lived with their families in a neat, prosperous subdivision in San Jose's Almaden area, was utterly desolate yesterday.
A few small boys on bicycles paused to look up at the tanned knoll, swathed with wide paths used for scrambles by neighborhood motorcyclists, and scurried off.
Normally scores of children play in that area, because, in the words of Deborah's father, Glen Furlong, "It's the only open area close by where kids can go to."
Housewives living in hte immediate area, across the street and around the corner, conceded they were suddenly "very frightened."
One mother said that since the murder she had seen some children poking around the scene, and added, "We were shocked.
"Maybe their parents don't care. But I wouldn't let mine go up there . . . "


PUBLICITY

Although very close to tears, Furlong said yesterday that he was allowing interviews in the hope that more and more publicity "would trigger something in someone's mind and we can solve this crime."
The 40-year old father works at the big International Business Machines plant only about a mile away from the family home. He is a senior associate engineer in the logic design section of IBM and he tried to bring objectivity to the disaster that has befallen his family.
"The individual or individuals who did this either had to be deranged or high on dope or something of that nature," he said. "They didn't know what they were doing. It was such a senseless killing."
He said his neighborhood has never had any problems, although mahy complain about the noise made by the weekend cyclists.
He noted parenthetically that the riders are not of the Hell's Angel variety, but use lighter motorcycles.
He said his neighbors were "very sympathetic," but complained he found some of his phone calls "very disconcerting."


CALLERS

"On several occasions people have called and as soon as we answer, they hang up," he said in bewilderment.
Furlong tried to control his emotions as he spoke of his eldest daughter — one of his four children.
"She was only a freshman in high school," he said, "and this was the first year we allowed her to date. We talked to her about it, and I sort of teased her. She went out with a boy friend a few times — a very nice boy who came over yesterday morning to extend his condolences — but most of her social activities were confined to her school. She was never any trouble."
School mates and neighborhood friends of Deborah said the girl, very slim and looking more like a 10-year-old than a 14-year-old, was "just an ordinary nice girl who baby set and had a boy friend and talked about becoming an airline stewardess."


CHILDREN

The other Furlong children are Glen, 16; Floyd, 12, and Pamela, 11.
Furlong said he did not know and had not yet talked to Kathy's parents, Mr. and Mrs. Wilfred Snoozy. Both Snoozy, a carpet layer, and Mrs. Snoozy reportedly are in a state of collapse.
Her funeral has been scheduled Friday at 11 a.m. at the Place Funeral Home in Los Gatos. Burial will be at Oak Wood Cemetery in Santa Cruz.
Funeral services for Kathy will be held tomorrow (Thursday) at 2 p.m. at the Oak Hill Memorial Park Mortuary in San Jose. Burial will be at Oak Hill Memorial Park.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home

This was solved if I am not mistaken

OK Thank you, sorry about that

Yes, solved, but I think this case is still interesting to consider in relation to Z. Zodiac threatened in his 7/31/69 letters to go on a weekend "kill rampage" if his ciphers weren't printed in the newspapers. Furlong and Snoozy were killed over this very weekend. The kill rampage never quite materialized but Z later alluded to 7 victims and included the month of August in his cryptic "DES JULY AUG SEPT OCT = 7" reference.

I know many folks believe he was probably referring to his August letter and to Hartnell and Mageau as the two remaining victims. I believe it is very possible that Z was implicitly taking credit for killing Furlong and Snoozy, since he promised to kill the weekend they were murdered, the case remained unsolved at the time (October 1969) that he wrote this "equation" and the newspapers publicly speculated whether Z may have been responsible. Why not then take implicit credit for this while allowing for enough ambiguity to save face if the case is eventually solved?

KARL FRANCIS, WERNER, 17 years old in Aug 1969, was convicted for the Aug 3rd, 1969, murder of Deborah Gay Furlong, 14, and Kathy Snoozy, 15.
KW was also convicted for the April 11th, 1971 murder of Kathy Bilek.

Karl Werner is still behind bars:

Name: KARL FRANCIS, WERNER
CDCR # : B37060
Age: 58
Admission Date : 09/28/1971
Current Location : California Medical Facility (CMF)



California Medical Facility (CMF)
Physical Address:

1600 California Dr.
Vacaville, CA 95696
(707) 448-6841


Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 2000
Vacaville, CA 95696-2000


I find it odd that a 17 year old boy could manage to stabb 2 girls to death, also the fact that police concluded that the two girls was NOT murdered at the location were they were found due to almost no blood was found at the scene were they were found, mean that the killer had to have transported the girls from the murder scene to were they were found. Quite a task for 17 year old boy.

Transporting the bodies does seem odd, but they found the murder weapon in his possession, which kinda negates any further speculation on him possibly not being the killer...

He confessed to killing Furlong and Snoozy, as far as I know that was the evidence. Not sure if they can definitively match a knife to a wound.

Everything indicates he probably did it, but I don't know if there is anything absolutley conclusive. Did a 17 year old kill two girls and drive them in a van?

Theforeigner wrote:

KARL FRANCIS, WERNER, 17 years old in Aug 1969, was convicted for the Aug 3rd, 1969, murder of Deborah Gay Furlong, 14, and Kathy Snoozy, 15.
KW was also convicted for the April 11th, 1971 murder of Kathy Bilek.

Karl Werner is still behind bars:

Name: KARL FRANCIS, WERNER
CDCR # : B37060
Age: 58
Admission Date : 09/28/1971
Current Location : California Medical Facility (CMF)



California Medical Facility (CMF)
Physical Address:

1600 California Dr.
Vacaville, CA 95696
(707) 448-6841


Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 2000
Vacaville, CA 95696-2000


I find it odd that a 17 year old boy could manage to stabb 2 girls to death, also the fact that police concluded that the two girls was NOT murdered at the location were they were found due to almost no blood was found at the scene were they were found, mean that the killer had to have transported the girls from the murder scene to were they were found. Quite a task for 17 year old boy.

I agree, seems like a big task for a 17 year old boy, unless he did some style pf blit attack stabbing them both very quickly and wounding them. I am not super familiar with their case and didnt read too much after seeing that there was a conviction.

Maybe he had an accomplice.

entropy wrote:

Yes, solved, but I think this case is still interesting to consider in relation to Z. Zodiac threatened in his 7/31/69 letters to go on a weekend "kill rampage" if his ciphers weren't printed in the newspapers. Furlong and Snoozy were killed over this very weekend. The kill rampage never quite materialized but Z later alluded to 7 victims and included the month of August in his cryptic "DES JULY AUG SEPT OCT = 7" reference.

I know many folks believe he was probably referring to his August letter and to Hartnell and Mageau as the two remaining victims. I believe it is very possible that Z was implicitly taking credit for killing Furlong and Snoozy, since he promised to kill the weekend they were murdered, the case remained unsolved at the time (October 1969) that he wrote this "equation" and the newspapers publicly speculated whether Z may have been responsible. Why not then take implicit credit for this while allowing for enough ambiguity to save face if the case is eventually solved?

Zodiac sent his "Dripping Pen" card on 8 November 1969 with the DES JULY AUG OCT = 7 "score" and the next day mailed a 7 page letter which opens with the statement; "this is the Zodiac speaking up to the end of Oct I have killed 7 people.

Clearly, he was taking credit for the murders of Kathy Snoozy and Debbie Furlong and was not referring to Mageau and Hartnell, because he specified that he had KILLED 7. By 8 November, he knew that Mageau and Hartnell had survived, and nobody had been arrested yet for the murders of the girls.

Since Zodiac (the guy who wrote all the letters, anyway) began early in his letter writing by lying and taking credit for murders he did not commit, one has to consider the possibility that he continued to take credit for other murders as well.

Every time I see where a Van is used I automatic think of The Murder Mack

With Lawrence Sigmund Bittaker & Roy Lewis Norris in it driving happily down the highway looking for there next pretty girl to grab.

I bet there still bunch bodies has not been found from these 2 manic's who was let loose way way too early..

If you never heard of these 2 wild men it's sure worth your time for a read of there rampage..

Hope Morf my old friend I am not breaking and rules.. I never do it again if you just tell me.. But I leave a link for our friend's try make it more easy and faster for any want to read about these 2 "Nut"s ""

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/bittaker_norris/1.html

Karl Francis Werner´s "confession" IMO is not a solid "confession" due to that he, according to himself, had "black outs" the day of the murder.
What I mean is, how can you confess to a murder you can not remember?, and that it sounds to me that Karl kind of agreed with LE that he did commit the murders because LE had put together a case that seemd so strong that Karl belived LE when they claimed he did it , and therefore he "confessed".

Not saying that Karl is innocent, however I belive this information open a door to that he might not be the right man.

[img][/img]


I also find ot interesting that he and the Zodiac composite look quite simelar, not that I belive that Karl was Zodiac, insted I am thinking could the killer have been Zodiac and because Karl look like the description of the Zodiac the witnesses mistook Zodiac for beeing Karl?


Here is a photo of Karl Werner:

[img][/img]

Wv171 I was interested in Norris for a while as on various websites his birthdate is listed as Feb 2 1948, he also has a military background and visually with his receding hair and dark glasses he could fit the Stine comp. Then I saw a set of fingerprints that he sent on an official card from prison to a guy who runs a website selling art and what not made by serial killers and it appeared that he wrote his own birthdate as Feb 5 th or Feb 3rd. def not a 2. If anyone could clarify his birthdate for me it would be cool. He also is quite tall I believe around the 6 ft 3 mark so too tall I would think, but certainly a complete horror of a human being.

[quote="Theforeigner"]Karl Francis Werner´s "confession" IMO is not a solid "confession" due to that he, according to himself, had "black outs" the day of the murder...."

Not saying that Karl is innocent, however I belive this information open a door to that he might not be the right man.

I also find ot interesting that he and the Zodiac composite look quite simelar, not that I belive that Karl was Zodiac, insted I am thinking could the killer have been Zodiac and because Karl look like the description of the Zodiac the witnesses mistook Zodiac for beeing Karl? =quote]

I do not know a lot about Karl Francis Werner, but he did confess to killing Soozy, Furlong and Kathy Bilek - two killed in August 1969 and Bilek in April 1971 all in close proximity. Kathy Bilek was stabbed a total of 49 times. Werner had been a suspect in an earlier knife assault on a woman as well. He hung around the area where the girls were murdered. He pled guilty to the three murders.

As for Werner being Zodiac, I think it is possible that some of his crimes might have been seen as the work of Zodiac, but Werner was NOT living in Californa until early 1969. And, of course, he was arrested in April 1971, so he has a good alibi for many of the other suspected Zodiac killings. It is possible, however that he killed others between the murders of Snoozy/Furlong and the murder of Bilek.

I do not know what Werner's mental problems were, but it is not outside the realm of possibility that he said that as an excuse for his actions. I would hope that the police did some thorough analysis of the knife they found in Werner's possession to determine forensically that it was the murder weapon. I have not heard of any tests or reports about it.

Since the THREE murders (Snoozy, Furlong, and Bilek) were forensically linked by investigators, it would seem that Zodiac (the writer) would have claimed all three had he committed them.

Another possibility is that Zodiac the writer was referring to two different murders (not Snoozy and Furlong) with at least one of them being in August 1969. There is a Jane Doe who was stabbed to death near Lompoc, CA - probably in late July or early August - who has never been identified and her killer never identified.

Richard wrote:

entropy wrote:

Yes, solved, but I think this case is still interesting to consider in relation to Z. Zodiac threatened in his 7/31/69 letters to go on a weekend "kill rampage" if his ciphers weren't printed in the newspapers. Furlong and Snoozy were killed over this very weekend. The kill rampage never quite materialized but Z later alluded to 7 victims and included the month of August in his cryptic "DES JULY AUG SEPT OCT = 7" reference.

I know many folks believe he was probably referring to his August letter and to Hartnell and Mageau as the two remaining victims. I believe it is very possible that Z was implicitly taking credit for killing Furlong and Snoozy, since he promised to kill the weekend they were murdered, the case remained unsolved at the time (October 1969) that he wrote this "equation" and the newspapers publicly speculated whether Z may have been responsible. Why not then take implicit credit for this while allowing for enough ambiguity to save face if the case is eventually solved?

Zodiac sent his "Dripping Pen" card on 8 November 1969 with the DES JULY AUG OCT = 7 "score" and the next day mailed a 7 page letter which opens with the statement; "this is the Zodiac speaking up to the end of Oct I have killed 7 people.

Clearly, he was taking credit for the murders of Kathy Snoozy and Debbie Furlong and was not referring to Mageau and Hartnell, because he specified that he had KILLED 7. By 8 November, he knew that Mageau and Hartnell had survived, and nobody had been arrested yet for the murders of the girls.

Since Zodiac (the guy who wrote all the letters, anyway) began early in his letter writing by lying and taking credit for murders he did not commit, one has to consider the possibility that he continued to take credit for other murders as well.

Agreed, Richard. I was just offering a different viewpoint that I've heard expressed more than once. I wouldn't say that Z's taking credit for Furlong and Snoozy is the only possible explanation- it just seems to be the explanation that best fits Z's boasting in his letters, IMO. The fact that he might WANT to take credit for this horrible crime speaks volumes but we already knew Z wasn't a very nice guy.

Theforeigner poses an interesting question about the validity of Karl Werner's confession and he doesn't look unlike the composite sketches of Zodiac. We all know some people do offer false confessions at times, especially people like Karl Werner with well-documented mental health issues. I don't know if there was any other evidence tying him to this crime besides his confession. Would Zodiac speak up to clear an innocent man if he was actually responsible? Probably not but I think it's far more likely that Z took implicit responsibility for something he didn't do. It fits his style of ambiguous taunting after the Stine murder and it would help to legitimize the threats made on 7/31/69.

As far as Karl Werner's mental illness... Sounds to me like he may have been suffering from some sort of Dissociative Disorder, which could have been caused by mental illness and/or drug-induced. It's actually scary to think of all of the stuff that seemed to be going on simultaneously in the Bay Area in Zodiac's day. The Manson Family, Zebra murders, Trailside Killer etc. etc. No wonder why it's not easy to figure out who Zodiac was actually responsible for killing.

But then why didn'the take credit for it on Bryan's car door?

tahoe27 wrote:

But then why didn'the take credit for it on Bryan's car door?

Good Point. Same can be asked for other suspected Z crimes, like D&E, and Bates. If Z was their killer, did he not mention those early crimes because he didnt want police to know he was down in southern CA, or did he not consider them "zodiac" crimes (perhaps he felt they were prior to , and unrealted tohis Zodiac persona..if he was their killer)

Those I get.

But if you mention starting collecting of slaves, he would be mentioning all victims from LHR on. Why not take credit for the August murders in September, but he decides to in November. ??

tahoe27 wrote:

Those I get.

But if you mention starting collecting of slaves, he would be mentioning all victims from LHR on. Why not take credit for the August murders in September, but he decides to in November. ??

Maybe because he actually committed the LHR crime, the BRS crime, the Berryessa crime, and the Stine murder. He actually likely did all of those, and confirmed them. Perhaps after that, as an afterthought, he thought the police were onto him, so he decided to simply take credit for other murders without taking the risk of getting caught by doing his own.

Techincally, and maybe experts could tell us for sure, but Zodiac's confirmed killings, makes him seem more of a "spree killer" as opposed to a serial killer (although he was that too). Many serial killers have confirmed murders months or years apart, and an ongoing process. Zodiac really did the majority of his confirmed activity over a 3 month stretch. There was the long lag in between the LHR killings and the BRS killings(I personally think it is because Zodiac was someone police talked to, and he wanted time to go by to make sure he was no longer under suspicion), but when Z came back he really was active until after the Stine murder. I really think he got a wake up call when he realised that he almost was caught and there was a sketch of him flotaing around. I think it is even possible that he stopped killing, but still enjoyed taunting the police with the occasional letters.

Z only took credit for the Bates case, after it was linked to him publicly. Was that because he wasnt aware of the Bates case, or did he not take credit for it because he didnt want police to know he was down in Southern CA? Who knows? I am actually a little surprised that Z never took credit for Domingos/Edwards after it was reported in the early 70's that Z might have been responsible for their murders.

morf13 wrote:

I am actually a little surprised that Z never took credit for Domingos/Edwards after it was reported in the early 70's that Z might have been responsible for their murders.

Maybe those hit a little TOO close to home.

To me, Zodiac either killed in August or he didn't.

He never gave us a wishy-washy answers when it came to his murders--in the beginning. He wanted everyone to know about them. He absolutely would have claimed August murders (in Sept) if he were responsible. He would have no doubt included them on that car door...imo. THAT is what he did. Bragged.

He was either full of crap...or LB wasn't Zodiac. Just my take of course.

Karl Werner was convicted of murdering Furlong, Snoozy, and another girl named Kathy Bilek.

According to "Knife Murders: San Jose Student Held in Slaying Of Three Girls," by Paul Avery (San Francisco Chronicle, 4-30-1971, pp. 1, 28), Werner was arrested on April 29th, 1971, and was "a brilliant San Jose City College student." He was described, interestingly enough, as being "outstanding in physics and mathematics and, as a hobby, has been building his own computer."

Werner attended high school with Kathy Snoozy and Deborah Furlong, and at the time of their murders in August 1969, lived only a few blocks from them, so it seems doubtful they were completely random murders; he may not have known them personally, but probably saw them at school and in his neighborhood.

Avery wrote that Werner stabbed Kathy Bilek 49 times on April 11th, 1971, and it would seem that, in contrast to Furlong and Snoozy, she was randomly targeted by Werner, because the teenage girl who tipped police said that on April 9th, a strange man had approached her in Villa Montalvo County Park to go hiking with him, the same park where Bilek would be murdered two days later. Avery related that "she became frightened when he became angry after she refused... and ran from him to an area where there were more people around." Park rangers identified him from her description, because he was a frequent visitor to the park. Police recovered a knife from his rooming house, but did not confirm whether it was the murder weapon.

This thread began with a reprint of a 6 August 1969 article from the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle. Here is another article from that same page about the same crime...

1969 article linking Collins and Andrew to California killings...

------------------------------------------------
San Francisco Chronicle August 6, 1969 - front page
Michigan Suspect Linked Directly to Salinas Case
By George Murphy
Chronicle Correspondent

Salinas

John Norman Collins, charged with the most recent of seven coed slayings in Michigan, was linked directly as a suspect yesterday in the murder of a Salinas teenager.

The handsome 22-year-old student who police said had "a magnetic effect on young girls," met and made a date with a close friend of Roxie Ann Phillips, 17, the day before Miss Phillips disappeared June 30, investigators learned.

Miss Phillips' nude body was found with a red belt around her neck near Carmel July 13. She had been strangled to death and, as with several of the Michigan victims, one earring was missing.

Monterey County Sheriff's Detective Darol Smith said "Roxie Ann was well aware of the existence of Collins."

Captain Smith said Collins "picked up" Nancy Albrecht, 17, a visitor from Fort Worth and a friend of Miss Phillips, on Pajaro street in Salinas June 29.

He drove her to the home of her sister and brother-in-law, where she was staying, and spent 30 minutes talking with Miss Albrecht and her sister, Frances Gautier, Smith disclosed.

He said Collins told them he was attending Eastern Michigan University and had come to Salinas in a house trailer he was "living with friends."

Captain Smith said Miss Albrect later told Miss Phillips about her meeting with Collins and described him and his car to her.

The next day, Miss Phillips disappeared. On that day, too, Collins was to have a date with Miss Albrect, but he never showed up and she never saw him again.

Trailer

The house trailer was found Friday behind the Salinas home of the grandfather of Andrew Manuel, 24, known to have come with Collins to California from Ypsilanti, Mich.
Police and FBI agents are searching for Manuel, a 6-foot-1, 235-pound Filipino-American with a tattoo, possibly of an eagle, on his left forearm.

Michigan State Police Sergeant Ken Christensen sent to Salinas for the investigation, said he "felt certain" Manuel "could be helpful."

LA

Christensen said he and his associate, Detective Tom Nasser, would probably go to Los Angeles later this week to investigate the June 23 murder of Virginia Lynn Smith, 13.
She was killed in much the same manner as the seven Michigan coeds and Miss Phillips.

Collins and Manuel left Ypsilanti, with their trailer, on June 21, and returned sometime in July, police said.

Miss Phillips, Miss Smith and a still-unidentified girl whose murdered body was found near Salinas, were killed between June 17 and July 16.

Christensen described Collins as "a very handsome, clean-cut attractive young man who seems to have a magnetic effect on young girls."

He was arrested in Michigan Friday and charged with the murder of Karen Sue Beineman, an Eastern Michigan University student.

The Ann Arbor News reported yesterday that a witness told police Collins was the driver of a car that picked up Joan Schell shortly before she became the second victim in the string of seven Michigan coed killings.

The victims were all found nude, sexually mutilated and had one of their earrings missing.

The FBI entered the case when a Federal fugitive warrant was issued for Manuel for failing to return the rented trailer.

Christensen and Detective Nasser examined the trailer, but would not disclose their findings — if any.

Smith said the police believed Manuel was "without money and without any means of transportation."

In San Jose, Chief of Detective Barton Collins said "I'd like to talk with Andrew Manuel" about the murder of Gay Furlong, 14, and Kathy Snoozy, 15.

The bodies of the girls were found savagely stabbed to death Sunday night on a San Jose hillside.

"I'd like to talk to anyone who could tell me anything about how hese two kids were killed," the San Jose chief said.

He would not speculate, however, on any link between the deaths and those of Miss Phillips and the unidentified Salinas girl.

Michigan Suspect Linked to Salinas Case - SFC 8/6/69

LINK:

http://www.maebrussell.com/1960s%20T...as%20Case.html

Thanks to Tracers for this!!!!



















[/quote]

WHY IS THIS GUYS B DAY SUCH A MYSTERY. CAN SOME ONE HELP ME OUT WITH THIS…

ALSO, DOES ANY ONE HERE KNOW OF ANY OTHER POSSIBLE NAMES LIKE “FRANCIS” THAT COULD BE CONNECTED TO THE Z CASE OTHER THAN WARNER ?

FRANC, FRANK, FRANCE, FRED, FREDRICK…ANY IDEAS WELCOME…