Troy Houghton: The Minuteman

I also agree from the reading I have been doing that TH was not killed by Bob DePugh and either went underground into the SAO or he was pulled out and put into some sort of witness protection per some government agency.

All that said, who better to send into the SAO underground branch of the MM other than TH? IF TH perhaps also had some ties to CIA...and by going underground he also might have had contact with other extremist groups which was helpful to our government, then TH would seem to be the man for the job.

Seems to me he was THE guy DePugh wanted to do it. BUT...things might not have gone exactly as expected with the political and LE forces in play and TH might have just gone a little off the rails mentally in such a stressful situation.

OR he could have been put into a witness protection type situation because he *thought* his life or that of his family was in danger by someone or something other than DePugh. Remember there were assassinations going on and TH and the MM were loosely implicated or knew some of the principles in both JFK and MLK. Now THAT would be a bigger motivator to disappear and change your identity than a few years in prison for buying a machine gun.

TH seemed to like a little bit of press and attention and if he all of sudden was forced into an underground lifestyle and was no longer important or relevant (in his mind) it might explain a bit if he was the Zodiac. Underground he couldn't talk about his exploits or importance to anything political. He could no longer give speeches, run weapons training, or do much of anything that might risk his picture being shown for then he would have been recognized. I could see this making TH angry after awhile, especially if he believed he was wronged.

MSneuropil wrote:

All that said, who better to send into the SAO underground branch of the MM other than TH? IF TH perhaps also had some ties to CIA...and by going underground he also might have had contact with other extremist groups which was helpful to our government, then TH would seem to be the man for the job.

Seems to me he was THE guy DePugh wanted to do it. BUT...things might not have gone exactly as expected with the political and LE forces in play and TH might have just gone a little off the rails mentally in such a stressful situation.

I agree 100%.

Z wrote im platt in the Little List letter: "All children who are up in dates and implore you with im platt"

The actual line from The Mikado is : "All children who are up in dates, and floor you with 'em flat-"

TH was a miner in the 1950s. Here's a definition of Platt:

2. (Mining) The space at the mouth of a level next the shaft,
widened to permit wagons to pass, or ore to be deposited
for hoisting; -- called also platt. --Raymond.
[1913 Webster]
This strikes me as very significant because Z obviously didn't know the real words to the song. Instead, he heard them and made sense of what he heard by processing the sounds through his own personal lens. Why would he think of Im Platt? Why Platt? If he were a miner, this is the lens he used to make sense of what he was hearing.

*******************************************************

I'm reposting this because it's terribly important, IMO. October 11th, the day Stine was murdered, had huge significance for the MM. Read this:

TH took photos of witnesses as they entered his trial. Why? Who knows? But TH's need to photograph his enemies suggests Z's fascination with EYES seeing, looking, peeking.

I think TH taking pictures of the witnesses was due to issues with his need for being in control...and in intimidation. What better way to gain some control in a situation where he felt control of his future was out of his hands than to intimidate witnesses? Or perhaps just give the impression that he was in control.

PowerPoint Impact of Behavior Styles

Hey Rand, I thought you might like to see this Power Point that might give you some ideas about what TH's behavioral styles might have been. This is basically a lesson plan for a lecture...so the input of the speaker is missing. But it should give you the idea. After reviewing this last night I am thinking that TH might actually have been a controller/persuader personality. The most important thing to know about this study is that a person has the most difficulty dealing with people who are diagonally opposite of their position. For instance...I being an analyzer personality...have the most problems relating to a persuader personality. And a controller will have the most difficulty with a organizer personality. In other words...an analyzer has more in common with a organizer for we are both process oriented, whereas a persuader and a controller are both "people" oriented.

Why this would be important in context of the Zodiac is what was TH's need in committing the crimes under the stress of being pushed into a underground situation? Was it control...I think so. Was it also a need to attack his enemies? Yes. I think if TH was the Zodiac...he lost his importance and his control when he went underground. He lost essentially his identity. This was very important to him. But he no longer had much control and he certainly couldn't afford the attention.

This is really quite fascinating to think that TH might be the Zodiac...especially after you mentioned the motivation was not anything we commonly read in books about serial killers. I could see where TH might be the Zodiac for a few years and then perhaps fade away because his motive was political and personal, not sexual or homicidal in the sense that he would have to commit crimes until he could no longer commit crimes. If his reason for the Z crimes was the political and personal...the political issue was forced by history to the side lines. I think age and just plain getting tired of the fight pushed him farther into the shadows and he had less reason to continue the Zodiac.

OH, I was interested in your info about TH and the Mikado. Good explanation of his use of the words without understanding the real meaning. It gave me an idea. While it seems weird that TH would be a fan of the Mikado...or opera, there might be a simple reason this particular subject was interesting to him. And that is the premise of society morals...charging someone with the crime of "flirting". I see TH as a person with "rules" and the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's being a burr under the saddle of his morals.

Well enough of my ideas, LOL!

later, Tanya

edit: please delete this post

Reminds me of something I noticed before...

Rand - Notice anything about this possible Z letter?




THe Bleeding...

THe

"TH" ?

What do you think of the "State" letter Rand? Do you see the threat to take "government life" as consistent with Minutemen anti-government rhetoric?

I thought the same thing (your find of TH in THe) when I found this. Sure, I see it as consistent. But I see most things as consistent with TH and the MM.

I don't know if the "State" letter is real - when I get the envelope, and we can see that writing and stamp, they may help decide.

But certainly if it is real, I think that does very slightly helps bolster the case for or at least interest in those Z suspects known to have radical political/social views and be anti-government, like TH, TK, RG and BD/CMF. As opposed to those suspects with no clear history of radical political/social views and anti-government thoughts, like ALA, RM, LK, JT and most of the others.

rand wrote:

I thought the same thing (your find of TH in THe) when I found this. Sure, I see it as consistent. But I see most things as consistent with TH and the MM.

Yes, well then, like me you may need to take a look at other suspects from time to time, just to keep fresh. And I know that you do.

I think it is OK to have a strong research interest in a suspect (as we both do), as long as you can keep an open mind, avoid tunnel vision and also look at other suspects and theories (all of which I try to do).

I keep an open mind, of course. But, that said, the evidence for TH as Z is, IMO, overwhelming and well beyond mere coincidence. The HC alone tells me this. Z said he would clue us in regarding his identity. Everything on the card is a clue regarding TH's identity. The image of a flasher, which no one had seen prior to TH as a suspect, is beyond dispute, IMO. Why would Z place a Pumpkin over the genital area on the cover? Why then place a skeleton in a lucid pose on the inside of the card? The effect is that one sees the skeleton on the outside first with a pumpkin and then opens the card and sees the skeleton sans pumpkin in a wild gesture. PEEK-A-BOO!


The strange symbol seems to stand for LA (the place where TH was convicted of indecent exposure and his birth place).
13 eyes are placed in the card. TH talked about 13 bullet holes in his car in the LOOK magazine article.
The figure is a tH (slaves paradise, etc.)

I could add 50 other items that are beyond coincidence, but they're all on this thread and listed for everyone to see. Sure, people don't agree with me. Fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But either they have a suspect that makes them bias to seeing what I've presented or they simply don't understand or comprehend the totality of what I've shown -- all my opinion of course.

So, yes I keep an open mind, but the circumstantial evidence is, IMO, overwhelming. Either it was TH or someone pretending to be him. My opinion.

"But, that said, the evidence for TH as Z is, IMO, overwhelming and well beyond mere coincidence."

Well, that is where we disagree!

I think it is an itneresting case, one I am glad to help you with, but far from overwhelming.

As I have said before, why not get LE to try to compare prints? Lets end the debate. If he is Z lets prove it.

I think the case for TK as Z is very, very strong IMO.

On the Halloween card, TH publicly denied he was a flasher and said it was a set up to discredit him. Thus IMO it doesn't make sense to have the flasher motif be a clue. I just don't see it. I have read your argument and evidence many times, but it just doesn't work for me.

But I continue to wish you well, will read future evidence and stand ready to help.

AK Wilks wrote:

On the Halloween card, TH publicly denied he was a flasher and said it was a set up to discredit him. Thus IMO it doesn't make sense to have the flasher motif be a clue. I just don't see it.

I don't understand why you don't get it. TH was constantly described in the media as a sex pervert. The conviction of indecent exposure in LA was ALWAYS next to his name. So much so that the MM put out a bulletin to publicize the unfairness of it all. So if you're providing CLUES as to your identity, how in the world is this not a PUBLIC clue. Regardless of whether TH thought it was fair, it was his ID. How can you not understand that? And whether or not you think TH disagreed with the conviction, what does that have to do with the image? It is or is not that of a flasher. Right? Oh well...sometimes I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall of illogic.

Well TH was ADAMANT that he was innocent of being a flasher. That it was all a set up. It seems IMO that is the last clue he would give.

I mean I will look at "myself". Lets say I decide to become a serial killer. Now I want to give a clue to my identity. OK, I happen to be a huge movie fan and film buff. And I am proud of my film knowledge. So I slip in film references in my letters and leave other clues about movies.

Now, I also happen to be somewhat fat. People make fun of me for being fat. It is embarassing. By killing people I am making my statement to the world about how much better I am then all of them. The last clue in the world I would give would be one about me being fat!

See the way I see it?

Also, your read of the card as a "flasher" is your own. I never heard anyone give that analysis before. I see what your saying, but there are all kinds of clues on that card. Which are real, which are coincidence, which are intentional red herrings? Who knows?

Anway you will not prove that TH was Z on this board. It can only be done by LE. They have the ability to prove - or disprove - TH as Zodiac by fingerprints, handwriting, maybe DNA. Did TH have any children? Siblings? Mother still alive? Maternal relatives still alive? Then we can compare the mtDNA of TH to the possible Zodiac mtDNA and DNA. His fingerprints are on record so they can be compared as well. Why don't you want to pursue this? How else can we know for sure if TH was or was not Z?

One other thought - let us say your read of the clue as pointing towards a flasher is correct. I am sure there were hundreds of convicted flashers in and around SF and thousands in CA. How do you know it was not one of them who was Zodiac and sent the card?

AK Wilks wrote:

Well TH was ADAMANT that he was innocent of being a flasher. That it was all a set up. It seems IMO that is the last clue he would give.

I mean I will look at "myself". Lets say I decide to become a serial killer. Now I want to give a clue to my identity. OK, I happen to be a huge movie fan and film buff. And I am proud of my film knowledge. So I slip in film references in my letters and leave other clues about movies.

Of course, in public TH had to be adamant that he was set up or that it was a case of mistaken identity. He was convicted TWICE of indecent exposure, 9 years apart and in separate states.

If you want to "give a clue" as to your identity, it must be one that people ASSOCIATE you with. If no one in the public knows you're a movie fan (which I am as well, btw), what good is it as a CLUE? Not good at all. Look, TH knew he was guilty twice of indecent exposure and probably did it many other times and didn't get caught (wouldn't you agree?). It was part of his MO, his makeup, that separated him from most of the rest of us. I can't imagine why anyone would flash another human being. I can't imagine what the thrill could be from doing something like that. Obviously, TH got some thrill from it. It was a CLUE to his identity -- a very, very public one. In fact, it's difficult to find a public reference to TH without the fact of his conviction in LA in 1957 for indecent exposure. In fact, the words "sexual deviant" and "sexual pervert" followed him around in the press constantly. Can you imagine the psychic damage that would do? Imagine if your name were constantly associated with sexual deviant and pervert in the press.

AK Wilks wrote:

One other thought - let us say your read of the clue as pointing towards a flasher is correct. I am sure there were hundreds of convicted flashers in and around SF and thousands in CA. How do you know it was not one of them who was Zodiac and sent the card?

Because of the other references to the MM and the 50 other things that point to TH and no one else. Sure, there might have been another MM, who was a flasher, who shot out the tires of a woman's car four years to the day earlier as LHR, who was interrupted during a speech at the Jolly Roger Inn by gunshots, whose initials are TH, who looks just like the composite of Z, who has a mining background, who wore snarky buttons, who was the MM's trainer on codes and explosives, who sent MM members greeting cards, who was known for Halloween pranks, who was interviewed by Look Magazine, and who said that his car had 13 bullet holes in it, who lived by his shortwave radio (This is the Zodiac Speaking), etc. etc. But I rather doubt it.

This probably got buried, so I'll repost it here (it's from earlier today):

Rand and AK Wilks: I have a bit of a different take on TH and the Halloween card.

I'm trying to put myself in the mind of a person such as TH appeared to be in the literature and what Rand has presented.

I am not sure that TH was a flasher. He might have been, but lets just say that he BELIEVED that he was not a flasher and he was wrongly convicted.

TH seems to me to be a man with his own sense of "honor" and his own sense of "right and wrong". He was able to justify doing crimes IF it suited the goal of his MM and the cause of anti-communism.

IF he believed he was falsely convicted the first time of "flashing" or indecent exposure...then he would be chafing that he was being "exposed" in the media with this label every time this charge was brought up in association with his name. This would be a deep grudge in a person such as Troy Houghton. Then he gets charged a 2nd time for "flashing" in what appears to me to be a complete set up. Ask yourselves why TH was set up on the 2nd charge? What was the purpose? The purpose was to either disrupt the MM or to force TH to do something. TH would not be able to let such a injustice go. It would be eating away at him for his identity was being destroyed. A man with the balls enough to harass our military, sneak up on soldiers on training exercises to steal guns and put stickers on the sleeping soldiers faces is NOT a man who would let such a injustice of his character go. IMHO.

IF TH was the Z and he had a very intense anger at LE and government and media who hounded him with printing his "flashing" offenses, then I could absolutely see TH taunting everyone with a Halloween card and hinting about what was so distasteful to him and that was having his name smeared with a flashing charges. TH may have been guilty of "flashing" but that doesn't matter. What matters is that Troy Houghton did not believe that he was guilty of anything.

My main reason for thinking TH was probably not a flasher is that it was a common tactic of the cointelpro to harass R wing and L wing political groups by charging people with nuisance sex charges to embarrass and cause disruption. Either Gen Walker, Bob DePugh, and Troy Houghton or the MM were all sexual perverts, OR they were set up.


CointelPro

Quote :

The tactics used against Americans often risked and sometimes caused serious emotional, economic, or physical damage. Actions were taken which were designed to break up marriages, terminate funding or employment, and encourage gang warfare between violent rival groups. Due process of law forbids the use of such covert tactics, whether the victims are innocent law-abiding citizens or members of groups suspected of involvement in violence.

The problem I have with it being a Cointelpro setup is that two young girls, their parents, and Cheyenne police officers would all have had to consent to a Cointelpro setup of an innocent man. I think that's very unlikely. The girls said he was driving a car with Canadian license plates. My take on this is that the Missouri company was a fake one or was used by the MM to do their business. The paperwork was simply provided to Troy Houghton as a convenient alibi. The person to whom TH was supposed to drive the car was either nonexistent or was a MM member. The car was actually a getaway car for the planned MM camp in the Washington wilderness. Read this:



I spoke with the guy, Ken Patrick, who claimed that TH couldn't have been in WY on the day of the flashing incident. He told me he drove TH directly from his court appearance to the bus station in Kansas City on the day the incident occurred in Cheyenne. Well, it turns out that that court appearance was the day before the incident. TH, in the letter in which he says he was set up, claims that he spent the night in MO before going to the bus station. That story is not true according to the Patrick. It's all a convenient lie with lots of fake paperwork to establish an alibi. In the end, TH missed his court appearance by an hour and was convicted in absentia.

Well it may be he was guilty of being a flasher...BUT Troy Houghton didn't think he was guilty. And it is what he believed that drives the bus of his antagonism towards LE. Of course there are alot of criminals that don't think it is "fair" that they got caught and can rationalize why they aren't guilty for any number of reasons. It wouldn't be the first time a pervert thought what he did wasn't a big deal and everyone over reacted.

I guess what I am trying to put forward is that TH thought he was wronged by LE and the media. The MM thought they were being wronged and rather than let the matter drop they wrote on their MM newsletter that they were being wronged by being accused of sex crimes and being put into mental institutions. Soooo TH had fooled DePugh about his perverted nature OR they didn't care about his perverted nature. I don't know...but I think there were a fair number of MM who would NOT want any dealing with a guy if they believed he was a pervert.

OF course TH might have been a good con man that could convince anyone but LE that he had nothing to do with such crimes. IF he was a pervert then he was willing to take the risk of ruining his reputation with the MM and of course his family. A guy might be able to explain away one flashing arrest, but how do you explain it a 2nd time? Maybe he was so narcissistic he couldn't see the risks. Maybe he was having some mental issues. I just find it odd that 3 well know MM had sex charges. Maybe it is a case of birds of a feather flock together.

It may have been just that, MS. Or maybe he was set up, as you suggested earlier. I honestly don't know. What I do know is that TH was tagged with the flasher MO by the media. So it would be an excellent clue for Z to send about his identity if he was TH.

I agree, it would be a good clue. He is taunting LE and it is doubtful anyone picked up on what he really meant back then.