Troy Houghton: The Minuteman

Interesting Zynchronicity: Belli-Minutemen-Zodaic on the same page

I have a question...are Troy Houghton's prints on record with police? If they are, we would have to assume that ALL OF THE PRINTS in the Z case either dont belong to Z, or Troy is NOT Z.
By "all of the prints", I am referring to the phonebooth print(s) from Napa, and the Stine prints.
Obviously, these prints have been entered into the system, and if Troy's were as well, there would be a match.

I don't think they ran them against Troy's prints.

rand wrote:

I don't think they ran them against Troy's prints.

They dont need to run them against anybody's prints. All they do is put them into the database, and if there is another print in the database that matches, then it will get a hit.

Here are two things I will bet money on.

1- Zodiac's prints ARE IN THE DATABASE.

2-Troy, seeing as he was a "radical", and probably on a govt watch list, and already a criminal, most likely has his prints in the database.

If there is no match, then Troy most likely isnt Z, or if he is Z, then the prints they are calling Z prints, really arent from Z

We don't know which database they used and who was in it. My understanding is that they ran prints from people in the military and violent offenders. Troy wasn't in the military and he wasn't a violent offender. I tried to get data regarding Troy from San Diego, and they said they had no criminal records for him. Imagine that? No criminal records for Troy Houghton?

Please could someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my belief is that prior to some point in the 1970's, hundreds of thousands of prints belonging to military personnel, offenders, etc were only kept manually on index cards. I understand that many of these records have still not been entered into AFIS and are sitting in hundreds of dusty filing cabinets or were lost/destroyed at some point in the distant past.

Since computers became more common, I believe that it has become routine for all offenders to have their prints recorded on AFIS but if Z for example was printed in the 50's / early 60's for minor misdemeanours then his prints could be on an index card somewhere but not actually on AFIS so he would avoid getting automatically flagged? This is what I have heard but obviously if this is inaccurate then I'm happy to be corrected. It would probably mean that Z would have had to keep his nose clean since the advent of AFIS to avoid being flagged but seeing that he stopped writing letters, etc then he could have easily have committed suicide, died naturally, emigrated, kept out of trouble, etc which is why are none the wiser today and his prints aren't flagging up on any offender lists.

Well Q I do believe you are correct. From what I have read not all prints are put into the system.
For instance, if someone who robs a person ,gets arrested they get printed. Those prints aren't compared to someone who has committed a murder. That is my understanding ,but would like to know for sure.
Even prints taken in the military have had many of them lost in a fire many yrs back. The only other reason that the Z's prints haven't turned up any suspects yet, could be that he was never arrested for any crime ?

Or like me , I have a very good suspects prints, DNA, blood evidence, and printing, that needs to be checked. But because I haven't involved the "news media" with lies to fit the Z crimes, nothing gets done.

morf13 wrote:

rand wrote:

I don't think they ran them against Troy's prints.

They dont need to run them against anybody's prints. All they do is put them into the database, and if there is another print in the database that matches, then it will get a hit.

Here are two things I will bet money on.

1- Zodiac's prints ARE IN THE DATABASE.

2-Troy, seeing as he was a "radical", and probably on a govt watch list, and already a criminal, most likely has his prints in the database.

If there is no match, then Troy most likely isnt Z, or if he is Z, then the prints they are calling Z prints, really arent from Z

Morf: If Zodiac's prints ARE IN THE DATABASE, then how come we don't know Z's identity -- provided that the prints that they have are, at least some anyway, those of Z, which I believe they are?

rand wrote:

morf13 wrote:

rand wrote:

I don't think they ran them against Troy's prints.

They dont need to run them against anybody's prints. All they do is put them into the database, and if there is another print in the database that matches, then it will get a hit.

Here are two things I will bet money on.

1- Zodiac's prints ARE IN THE DATABASE.

2-Troy, seeing as he was a "radical", and probably on a govt watch list, and already a criminal, most likely has his prints in the database.

If there is no match, then Troy most likely isnt Z, or if he is Z, then the prints they are calling Z prints, really arent from Z

Morf: If Zodiac's prints ARE IN THE DATABASE, then how come we don't know Z's identity -- provided that the prints that they have are, at least some anyway, those of Z, which I believe they are?

By "in the database", I mean that the prints they have lifted were entered into the database for comparison against the prints already in the system. Obviously they dont know the name of the man that the prints belong to, nut I bet they are in there for comparison

morf13 wrote:

Here are two things I will bet money on.

1- Zodiac's prints ARE IN THE DATABASE.

2-Troy, seeing as he was a "radical", and probably on a govt watch list, and already a criminal, most likely has his prints in the database.

I don't know if you can take either for granted, morf. Especially #2.

I agree, Nacht.

Some odds and ends.

Z opens the Little List letter with: "Being that you will not wear some nice (crosshair) buttons, how about wearing some nasty (crosshair) buttons. Or any type of (crosshair) buttons that you can think up."

...any type of (crosshair) buttons that you can think up. This suggests to me that it isn't Zodiac buttons that he cares about. It's the Minutemen organization that he's promoting. He never says: how come no one is wearing Zodiac buttons? He wants the crosshair symbol on the button. The Minutemen were a political entity that had established a political party, the Patriotic Party. Z's constant plea for people to wear buttons seems political to me. Buttons are most associated with political parties and elections.



What is the connection between Houghton and "collecting slaves for my afterlife"?

Houghton was a fugitive, who was thought to be dead. An elaborate story had been disseminated by the Minutemen leadership that he had been murdered by DePugh and his henchmen. Even the FBI got wind of it and tended to believe it. So Troy Houghton was, for all intents and purposes, in an "afterlife." This might explain why he chose the phrase: collecting slaves for my afterlife. In a metaphorical way, Houghton was in an afterlife -- having left his former identity and life behind and assumed another.

Z was a fabricated identity, who took on several other identities (the Red Phantom, a Citizen). How does that tie-in with Houghton?

Houghton had the chutzpah to insist at a press conference in Nov. 1961 that he was Don Alderman. When questioned about his name, he assured the press that his name was Don Alderman. The next day he was arrested for failure to register as a sex offender in San Diego, and the press printed his true name, Troy Houghton. The press further informed us that he also went by the names Troy Epick, Troy Boyle, Roy Horton, Ray Wilson, and "Jack." This is a guy who could easily morph into identities: one for his fugitive life, the other as a serial killer terrorizing the Bay Area. He had lived and well understood the game of identity deception.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND, I BELIEVE, A KEY PIECE OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE

Long before I discovered Troy Houghton as a suspect or even had heard of the Minutemen, someone found this letter mailed weeks after JFK's assassination. It's postmarked from Lancaster, CA, and hints at someone named Howard or Seymour or Howard Seymour. The handwriting and style of the letter appear to be spot-on matches to Z's handwriting and style:





NOTICE THAT EVEN THE "O" in POLICE is circled twice for no apparent reason to emphasize it:



HERE IS WHAT Z DID WITH THE LETTER "O" AND HIS CIRCLES:





OKAY, SO WE SEEM TO HAVE A GOOD MATCH WITH THIS LETTER RE JFK'S ASSASSINATION AND Z. SO I RESEARCHED IT. I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT I FOUND IN THE NEXT POST.

CONTINUED FROM LAST POST. HERE'S WHAT I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE LANCASTER LETTER:

Read these 6 pages from William Turner's book, Power on the Right. It doesn't matter if the story told by the people involved was true (I know it wasn't). The key is that it tells us who might have sent the letter about Howard and Seymour from Lancaster. Note that what I found does not implicate Gaikowski, or Gareth Penn, or Michael O'Hare, or ALA or any other suspect. Nope. What I found directly links the Minutemen to the Lancaster Letter. And not just any Minutemen. The Southern California chapter, headed by none other than Troy Houghton.

CONTINUED FROM PRIOR POST:

CONTINUED FROM PRIOR POST:

rand wrote:

troy H

I'm suprised that this has received no responses. It is no fluke. Show me any other suspect's name that can be revealed in this manner -- with all the arrows going in the same trajectory.
The "x"s in the crosshair are not times. They don't correspond to the murders. Knowing this, I looked at it for 30 seconds, and there it was: troy H. Z put the x's there for a reason. And it's his signature crosshair. So it stands to reason that the x's provide a clue about his identity.
If the silence is that people think you can find anything. Go ahead. But make sure the arrows are all in the same trajectory. It's not luck that these things keep pointing to one suspect.

Its speculative. I think if i sat down and drew straight lines down to the X's, I could also get names from it.

Morf: Why, if you believe that you can get another suspect by doing what I did, do you not go ahead and show me? It took me all of 30 seconds to find troy H, with all the lines going in the same direction. It's obvious why it's so easy to get troy H. I won't bother to say why.

rand wrote:

Morf: Why, if you believe that you can get another suspect by doing what I did, do you not go ahead and show me? It took me all of 30 seconds to find troy H, with all the lines going in the same direction. It's obvious why it's so easy to get troy H. I won't bother to say why.

Personally, I think you are caught up in the TROY stuff so much, that you are reading too much into it, and reaching to make something out of what you are seeing. Others may not be seeing what you are seeing. If there was something here that was reaching out and grabbing people, they would be comenting on it. Thats my opinion, perhaps I am wrong.

How am I reaching here? Is there a better explanation for why Z put x's on the crosshair symbol? I haven't heard one. I just report what I find and see. But what if those arrows all going in the same direction spelled out: DGAIK? I think there would be some at least on the zk.com board.

Prior to this post, I posted some pages from Turner's book that show the connection between the Lancaster-JFK letter and the Minutemen and TH. No reaction about that either. I think the Minutemen-Lancaster-JFK connection is very significant. I don't think people understand fully why.

B R W L O

Going straight up from the marks to letters, that is what I get.

You do it on a slant to get TROY H.

I share your feeling though, as many times I post things that I think are incredibly damning towards my POI, to a general yawn, with some thinking it significant, some interesting but not conclusive, others dismissing it as coincidence, and most not commenting at all.

See this - https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/ted-kaczynski-f26/origin-of-the-name-the-zodiac-t328.htm

How can it be a coincidence that the name of a suspect appears in the 340? Well, it can be a coincidence, and proponents of Gaikowski, tarrance and Allen all point to things they consider lock solid proof.

I think a Zodiac burn out sets in. One man's damning smoking gun evidence is another mans coincidence.

I now know that nothing short of a DNA match will raise much more than a murmur...meaning it will take a DNA match, to Ted, Gaik, TH, whoever, to be a nationwide front page story.

By the way, the letters T R O H all appear in THEODORE, and Y in his last name. Coincidence?

rand wrote:

How am I reaching here? Is there a better explanation for why Z put x's on the crosshair symbol? I haven't heard one. I just report what I find and see. But what if those arrows all going in the same direction spelled out: DGAIK? I think there would be some at least on the zk.com board.

Prior to this post, I posted some pages from Turner's book that show the connection between the Lancaster-JFK letter and the Minutemen and TH. No reaction about that either. I think the Minutemen-Lancaster-JFK connection is very significant. I don't think people understand fully why.

Some people say the X represents victims along a radian. That may be the reason for the X's

AK Wilks wrote:

B R W L O

Going straight up from the marks to letters, that is what I get.

You do it on a slant to get TROY H.

I share your feeling though, as many times I post things that I think are incredibly damning towards my POI, to a general yawn, with some thinking it significant, some interesting but not conclusive, others dismissing it as coincidence, and most not commenting at all.

See this - https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/ted-kaczynski-f26/origin-of-the-name-the-zodiac-t328.htm

How can it be a coincidence that the name of a suspect appears in the 340? Well, it can be a coincidence, and proponents of Gaikowski, tarrance and Allen all point to things they consider lock solid proof.

I think a Zodiac burn out sets in. One man's damning smoking gun evidence is another mans coincidence.

I now know that nothing short of a DNA match will raise much more than a murmur...meaning it will take a DNA match, to Ted, Gaik, TH, whoever, to be a nationwide front page story.

By the way, the letters T R O H all appear in THEODORE, and Y in his last name. Coincidence?

AK, I agree with you on your points. I think you, and Rand have done excellent research on your suspects. Personally, I dont think either of your suspects are Zodiac. And for whatever reason, I think most people agree, thats why there is a lack of comments.
By the same token, I also think GYKE & PENN are not Zodiac, but their threads seem to really heat up wat some points with a flood of posts and comments. People just seem to post on what seems interesting to them at the moment, or what the hot topic seems to be.

I understand where you are both coming from. I posted about the June 67 Alameda County couple killed on a lovers lane. Quite possibly Z victims. The police are interested to the point they are doing ballistics comparison to LHR. Yet, with all that, there has been little interest, and few comments, although it would be the first confirmed Zodiac victims in 40 years.

The important thing is, dont let it get you down. You both may actually be right about your suspect (well technically only one of you could be right). Keep up the research, you may find the smoking gun. As for me personally, place either of those guys in Vallejo, and you have my attention.