More on Don Bujok

Well said NIN, I for one am not going to call this case closed just yet. No disrespect to Kevin, but when the police say it is solved, then I will call it quits. Until then, I will keep digging. There are plenty more fish (suspects)in the sea. There are still many troubling things to clear up with Bujok, none of which you did. The bulk of Zodiac's letters were mailed on weekdays in SF area, and his killings on weekends. Was Bujok in the area that much? Could he have travelled back and forth from Roundup that frequently? Then we have a writing expert that examined Zodiac documents that states Zodiac wrote letters in the Bates case. Of course the examiner could be wrong, but if he is not, then this would rule out Bujok. I will let you steer this Bujok train ,and see what station it brings us to. In the meantime, I am going to stay focused on a guy that was in Riverside, and graduated with Bates and wound up living in Vallejo during the Z murders, since that seems to be what the Z clues indicate.

I don't want to appear disloyal to anyone on this site. But, are we clanking chains once again? kicking over TombStones? Where is Wyatt Earp, and Doc Holliday when you need them? Is this the O.K. Corral! My message is simply this: the case will not be solved without R. GraySmith. Now, I understand why he turned his back. This has turned he into a nervous wreck. Think how lonely he must have been. Walking the floors all night long, driving all over the place. I for one don't like to walk over people graves, [it's not nice]. It sound through the air, who gets the blame. DNA and prints, this will rock my world. But, I'm not going to hold my breath. The writing, P.s. You've got to pick up every stitch,ya must be the season of the witch.

Key---you completely just cleared my brain of all that was written before your post.

Nin--Will you represent me if I ever need a lawyer?

tahoe27 wrote:

..

Nin--Will you represent me if I ever need a lawyer?

What's your plan?

-Nin

Nin wrote:

tahoe27 wrote:

..

Nin--Will you represent me if I ever need a lawyer?

What's your plan?

-Nin

Well, my Dad is the Zodiac and...

tahoe27 wrote:

Nin wrote:

tahoe27 wrote:

..

Nin--Will you represent me if I ever need a lawyer?

What's your plan?

-Nin

Well, my Dad is the Zodiac and...

Ahhhh good one Tahoe, I'm patiently waiting to hear more & see his glasses :-) Ahhhhh the Z forums and sometimes the emotions run high. I think that is when we all take a deep breathe. This site is kinda unique as there's posters from all the Z research forums coming together. For the most part we all do pretty good and have excellent team work.... I for one like when that happens. So, sometimes there is a bump in the Z road..but then we all need to regroup & remember this case has grabbed all of us, and we are all looking to learn as much as we can and find some answers. Carry on...

Please. Anyone that wants to discuss Kevin better start another thread. This one is for Bujok.
Firstly nothing is solved yet. I agree on that one. But its looking promising.
I have a very useful filter that focus on what is left after what is said. Who solved this case? Answer: nobody yet.
In one sentence mention the victims families and in the next its about who will get the credit for solving this IF its EVER solved.
I really dont think anyone of the victims families 40 years later would even have a opinion if someone where to write a book about the case.
They want this solved. We all do, right? And I admit, I have no personal feelings or relations to any of the victims that Zodiac created.
Perhaps I feel sorry for all the people that have used 40, 30, 20 years of their lifes chasing shadows on the road.
Im in this for I want the secret behind who the Zodiac was. Its incredible how one man could inflict terror on the level he did.
Ofcourse it would be neat with a big ceremony and some cash prize and an a statue in San Francisco, but lets focus on solving this first and then we all can discuss each and every ones part to the solution.
I think anyone interested in and wanting to contribute to the a Zodiac forum is part of why this might be solved one day.
And perhaps that is one part that a member have to respect or not disrespect the facts that we are in this together.
So get in line Kevin. We are solving this together.
And though I think Bujok is the Zodiac or part of the Zodiacs there is alot to understand. Even if there were a fingerprintmatch it still wouldnt solve the case unfortunatly. Several crime scenes. Different descriptions. Several suspect characters along Bujok, Edwards, Dryman.
My feeling earlier were that this was discussed and planned inside the prison. And its still my feeling.
So im looking forward to see what mores we can find on this man
And since you said we should work on this together tell us more details.
What chemical company did he work for? Under what time period?
What kind of buttons did he collect? Do you have more pictures of Bujok?
What are his connection to the railroad and when and what was his area of work?
Tell us more about everything. Details would make a difference. There are some really good diggers on most of the Z-forums.
Lets explore every angle of this mans trail in life.
Do you have some more medical papers on Bujok? He spent some time at the asylum right? Is tht the reference on the prison sheet you posted earlier?
Or are there more medical journals?

[img][/img]

June16-1974
[img][/img]

July 8 1974
[img][/img]

Thanks for posting those Azazel. I don't see anything that screams Zodiac on the first read through. Sounds like if he was murdering anyone, it would be politicians.

bentley wrote:

Thanks for posting those Azazel. I don't see anything that screams Zodiac on the first read through. Sounds like if he was murdering anyone, it would be politicians.

I love that humor..

-Nin

Bujok went to prison at what, 19? He must have done some serious reading in the clink, or in the years after his release, because he sure doesn't come across as some uneducated country bumpkin. Some of what he writes sounds like it could be applied to society today.

He does mention a movie, Linda Lovelace for President. I'd better check it out, purely from a research standpoint of course.

He was 21 when he went to prison...

q

Who wants to work on this with me? There are several things i could do myself but this is time consuming. I'm asking again.

bentley wrote:

Bujok went to prison at what, 19? He must have done some serious reading in the clink, or in the years after his release, because he sure doesn't come across as some uneducated country bumpkin. Some of what he writes sounds like it could be applied to society today.

He does mention a movie, Linda Lovelace for President. I'd better check it out, purely from a research standpoint of course.

Hmmm Bently, about your ahhhh research, LOL* You crack me up!
Yeah the newspaper letters seem written by a guy who knows his stuff. But I know some very charismatic people who reel you in with their stories and talk...and it takes awhile to figure out they are a fricken nut case.... like it's either a good cover or they almost have 2 personalities.

bentley wrote:

Kevin B,

I have no skin in this, just an observer. Bujok seems is a likely suspect imo, I hope it pans out, and you seem like a nice guy.

However, at least 10 people, good, long time Z researchers, have asked you to see the handwriting, and the newer mug shot (which doesn't mean all that much to me personally). I'm sure I know the reason these have not been posted, and it has nothing to do with scanners or faxes. Are you being truthful, is that why in a month or so you have not figured out how to post these items, while posting pictures of yourself, books you've read, etc.?

You say you've solved the case and are going to write a book. Fine by me, however to dismiss the finding of Bujok's mention in Edward's book as something you've know about since 1979 or whatever, but somehow failed to mention or follow up on until it was brought up on a Z forum to which you, yourself, thanked those who found it for the terrific find, must a be a real slap in the face to those folks. It's no wonder they, and the rest of us are frustrated.

Again, taking the Bujok info and turning it into hard evidence, rather than just batting circumstantial evidence around on the forum ad nauseum, is very commendable. I, and others, have done the same thing with other suspects, and shared out findings, which makes this situation all the more frustrating.

Dear, Dear, Bentley,

I am also a good long time Z researcher! I was the one that corrected the 57 inch wheel to wheel everyone was quoting from what Graysmith wrote in his book. Howard once asked me, where did you get 52 inches on the wheel-base Kevin? I told him I looked at the police reports and what real evidence is there. I went out to car shows and measured inside to inside many cars and came up with the conclusion of what kind of car it had to be! I boiled down for me to about 4 or 5 models. In fact my suspect had one of those cars and I have a picture of it. Yes, his car! It’s light Brown, 52 inches “inside wheel to wheel.”

Yes, I played humble on Tom’s site as not to get kicked off if I dare push a suspect besides the one he thought was Z at any given time. I also talked about medical conditions that could cause one to be barrel chested. It turns out Donald Lee Bujok had a condition that could cause Barrel chest. The reason I edit my posts is because I write fast and I am in need of a new keyboard. I cannot stand misspells and in court cases you have to be “right on!” I have sent a small amount of handwriting to Morf and Zam and Rand as I know I can trust them. They will tell you although he tried to hide some things the candy cane f’s are there, as are the g’s with the stick coming down off of it, the check mark r’s and most importantly the 3 stroke k’s. Is it perfect? No! But I believe some of it was altered as he put a little curl on his t to the right at the bottom and he disguised his I’s; they look like a Z with a dot on top of it.

I was also the one who discovered a falsity that Dennis Kaufman wrote which proved he was making up stories! Dennis had said in one of his videos that his step-father Jack used to say the phrase “wash his name” and Dennis said what the heck does that mean?” The truth is Zodiac never said that it; was a misprint in the original Graysmith’s Zodiac book on page 155. Zodiac wrote in his ‘little list poem’ “What’s his name.” So ended my belief that Jack Terrance could be Z however he is a heck of a lot better suspect than Gaik! Jack at least fit more of the profile…. It’s a shame but Dennis actually wants Z to be his step-dad.
Bentley, if you had the information I have, you too would have an attorney to advise you on what to do with it. I have provided medical information on 2 very high profile cases here in Florida. I'm no idiot. You are not the only ones in the world that know a lot about this case. My Grandfather and I talked about it for years and yes I complimented when another poster posted the Edwards page but I have that book and have read that line and looked at Edwards and still think he could be Z. But I think Ed Edwards although a brutal killer was a different kind of killer with a different method of operation. My Grandfather was: a prison guard, a policeman, a NYPD 1st grade detective and taught me what to look for and what not. .

I posted the pictures of myself in hopes that you would get to know who I am and what the fruits of my life have been. I'm not hiding behind a cartoon or image. I have the best wife in the world of 22 years and a daughter and son in the Air-force. My friends are very famous musicians; as I have played (opened up for) Joe Perry of Aerosmith, Rick Derringer, Blue Oyster Cult, Dickey Betts, Black Oak Arkansas and others. Go to my Facebook let’s become friends!
My band had only regional success be we were good. I left music at only 24 years old and got married and divorced within a year and a half. Seems my wife liked me better on stage than in a UPS truck! But I got my kids out of the deal and was granted custody as well. . I still play guitar and play it well, in fact very well. I met the love of my life and I am the happiest man in the world! I had a spell of illness for a few years but I am doing much better and I am able to do the research I set on the shelf for a while. I’m back and stronger and healthier than ever! Bentley I am aware I could be wrong... But if this is Z, this is the result of this websites willingness to let people explore and the help Rand, Morf, Julia, Zam, Tracers and that guy from Sweden who is awesome!!!!. Had Morf went and talked to the people I spoke with it could of been him being picked on.... LOL!

Copyright, copyright, copyright
Just kidding!
Kevin R. Brooks October 16th 2011

Something kind of interesting about Bujok's name -

B - bee
U - ewe
J - jay
O
K - kay = yak backwards

Maybe his pal E. W. Edwards pointed this out to him.
Could be inspiration for the Zodiac name.

If Bujok was Zodiac, I think it's more likely that he took inspiration from his mother's maiden name - Zulevic.

Kevin, I got the writing samples, I appreciate it. I will NOT post them or share them without your permission.

Here are my honest thoughts on what i see, and let me preference it by saying I am not a writing expert of any sort-

1- The samples of printing show that Bujok wrote VERY SMALL. I dont recall Z having very small writing

2- Bujok uses a lower case I, the likes of which, I have never seen, it is very unusual. The loer case B is also very different.

3-I do NOT think the writing looks like the writing on the car door at Berryessa, specifically the NUMBERS

4- Looks like a 3 stroke K

5- The one letter in the Z letters that stands out and I think I would recognize anyplace, is the lower case D which almost lies on its side. The lower case D in the sample does NOT look like that

This is my opinion, and it is an honest one.....unless Bujok disguised his writing on the samples you sent me, I would have to say without a doubt, he did NOT write the Zodiac letters. Your argument could be that perhaps he disguised the writing in the Z letters, but why would he need to? He wasnt from the Vallejo area, he was from a place a thousand miles away, so why would he need to disguise his writing, not like anyone in the bay area would recognize it.

Again, I know you are likely not going to like this opinion, and if you choose to share it here on this forum with everybody, you likely will not be happy with those opinions either, but I would have to say with no doubt, that Bujok did NOT write the Z letters. Maybe your print evidence will be a match, but I dont think the writing will.

Kevin B wrote:

Dear Dear bentley.....

I'm... speechless, probably a good thing.

Keeping this thread on Bujok as advised, nice to finally hear an unbiased opinion on his writing since the rest of us remain unable to see it. At least we can surmise it is not a direct, hit you in the face match for Z's, at least the sample Morf has seen. I'm of the opinion that Z's writing was not normally disguised, too many pages of letters written in apparent hurry or anger, plus the bus bomb diagrams, etc., and that any non-disguised writing sample from him would match. Just mho.

Hopefully SFPD will respond on the prints.

bentley wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

Dear Dear bentley.....

I'm... speechless, probably a good thing.

Keeping this thread on Bujok as advised, nice to finally hear an unbiased opinion on his writing since the rest of us remain unable to see it. At least we can surmise it is not a direct, hit you in the face match for Z's, at least the sample Morf has seen. I'm of the opinion that Z's writing was not normally disguised, too many pages of letters written in apparent hurry or anger, plus the bus bomb diagrams, etc., and that any non-disguised writing sample from him would match. Just mho.

Hopefully SFPD will respond on the prints.

I agree, and for me, I think the most realistic undisguised writing by Z was on the door at Berryessa, since I really think he likely would have not wanted to take extra time near the crime scene, and likely would have wanted to get out of there rather quickly not taking extra time to disguise the writing. That is what I also like to use as a true idea of Z's writing.

That was part of my "etc.."

I know Tahoe27 has expressed her doubts as LB being a Z hit, and that alone has caused me to rethink it since I greatly admire her work, but the handwriting on the car door still leads me to the conclusion it was Z.

I came within half a hallway from actually seeing the door in the flesh once, btw. The Napa Sherri's Office was very cordial about it, I'm guessing with a polite advance request and a reason they would show it to anyone. Heck, knowing Zamantha, she could probably set up a tour with a buffet lunch included.

Nothing really to be gained from it though, other than a chill.

Oops, got off Bujok again, sorry..

Edit: How many words of Bujok's writing did you see Morf?

morf13 wrote:

Kevin, I got the writing samples, I appreciate it. I will NOT post them or share them without your permission.

Here are my honest thoughts on what i see, and let me preference it by saying I am not a writing expert of any sort-

1- The samples of printing show that Bujok wrote VERY SMALL. I dont recall Z having very small writing

2- Bujok uses a lower case I, the likes of which, I have never seen, it is very unusual. The loer case B is also very different.

3-I do NOT think the writing looks like the writing on the car door at Berryessa, specifically the NUMBERS

4- Looks like a 3 stroke K

5- The one letter in the Z letters that stands out and I think I would recognize anyplace, is the lower case D which almost lies on its side. The lower case D in the sample does NOT look like that

This is my opinion, and it is an honest one.....unless Bujok disguised his writing on the samples you sent me, I would have to say without a doubt, he did NOT write the Zodiac letters. Your argument could be that perhaps he disguised the writing in the Z letters, but why would he need to? He wasnt from the Vallejo area, he was from a place a thousand miles away, so why would he need to disguise his writing, not like anyone in the bay area would recognize it.

Again, I know you are likely not going to like this opinion, and if you choose to share it here on this forum with everybody, you likely will not be happy with those opinions either, but I would have to say with no doubt, that Bujok did NOT write the Z letters. Maybe your print evidence will be a match, but I dont think the writing will.

Morf,
First I want to thank you for your help as you have just validated several things for me. Here is a police description taken from Robert Graysmith’s book Zodiac page 313. See my comments on next post!




Zodiac Hand printing