June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??

Was a bit reluctant to call this couple Z victims. They were killed in 1967, in NORTHERN CA, not far from San francisco. I, like many others feel strongly that Zodiac was in Southern CA in 66-67 (Bates case). At the same time, the details of this double murder are alot like Zodiac, and hard to overlook.

* Couple killed on lovers lane


* Shot with a small caliber handgun

* Killed 11pm-12midnight (same time as LHR & BRS attacks)

*Female victim taken away from scene (like Johns)

*Female taken to a Park (like BRS park)

* Female shot in back as she ran

*Attack happened near PLEASANTON (didnt Z mail a letter from there??)

Good find, morf. "Female shot in back as she ran" in a lovers lane scenario. Very LHR.

Thurs June 8th 1967 was the date of the crime... have to add it to the Z diary......

Thanks. I look forward to hearing what others have to say too.

Wondering what kind of station wagon it was Mrs Molina Martinez owned. Just curious.

-Nin

Nin wrote:

Wondering what kind of station wagon it was Mrs Molina Martinez owned. Just curious.

-Nin

Not sure, I couldnt find any other details. As far as I know, it is still unsolved.

morf13 wrote:

Nin wrote:

Wondering what kind of station wagon it was Mrs Molina Martinez owned. Just curious.

-Nin

Not sure, I couldnt find any other details. As far as I know, it is still unsolved.

Thanks, morf.

-Nin

Rufus T Firefly wrote:

Good find, morf. "Female shot in back as she ran" in a lovers lane scenario. Very LHR.

Thurs June 8th 1967 was the date of the crime... have to add it to the Z diary......

This was about 20 minutes drive from Lake Herman Rd...very interesting

morf13 wrote:

Rufus T Firefly wrote:

Good find, morf. "Female shot in back as she ran" in a lovers lane scenario. Very LHR.

Thurs June 8th 1967 was the date of the crime... have to add it to the Z diary......

This was about 20 minutes drive from Lake Herman Rd...very interesting

I said 20 minutes previously. Thats based off of what a Detective I talked to told me. He said that SAN FRAN was about 30 minutes from them, and that Vallejo/Benicia was even closer. I mapquested it, and it said closer to an hour. I dont know exactly where the crime took place on a google map. Mayybe our resident google earth specialists can put this on a goole earth map for us (hint-hint NIN)

One body found near VALLECITOS & CALAVERAS Roads outside of PLEASANTON.

The other body was found near the GEARY RD entrance to the SUNOL REGIONAL PARK

(remember, the 1971 Z letter was postmarked in PLEASANTON)

Verified today, this case remains UNSOLVED

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Rufus T Firefly wrote:

Good find, morf. "Female shot in back as she ran" in a lovers lane scenario. Very LHR.

Thurs June 8th 1967 was the date of the crime... have to add it to the Z diary......

This was about 20 minutes drive from Lake Herman Rd...very interesting

I said 20 minutes previously. Thats based off of what a Detective I talked to told me. He said that SAN FRAN was about 30 minutes from them, and that Vallejo/Benicia was even closer. I mapquested it, and it said closer to an hour. I dont know exactly where the crime took place on a google map. Mayybe our resident google earth specialists can put this on a goole earth map for us (hint-hint NIN)

One body found near VALLECITOS & CALAVERAS Roads outside of PLEASANTON.

The other body was found near the GEARY RD entrance to the SUNOL REGIONAL PARK

(remember, the 1971 Z letter was postmarked in PLEASANTON)

Here we go, morf..

I get about 50 minutes or 47 miles from around VALLECITOS & CALAVERAS Roads to Vallejo:










And the Geary location:

Thanks NIN, great work. Looks like the area is similar in layout to Lake Berryessa with treed woodlines, and water nearby. Not too far for Z to drive. Plus he mailed a letter in 1971 from there. Very interesting!

Just to make it more interesting....here is the last article I found...hmmm, murder weapon seems to be a .22 handgun, wonder if it was a JC HIGGINS like on Lake Herman Rd?

I am pretty stoked, as I spoke to the Detective in charge of this case, and he is pretty intrigued by the similarities of this case compared to LHR on 12/20/68. He is going to pull the case materials and see what they have put away for detailed reports and/or evidence.

This kind of throws me for a loop, because I have always believed that Zodiac operated in southern CA during 1967, and I still do. This makes me think that Zodiac (if he was the perp of this crime) truly could have been mobile going down to southern CA for work , family,etc. Maybe the FLIGHT555 card wasnt BS, and he really did take cheap flights down.

The Detective said he is going to let me know what he digs up after the weekend. He seems like a guy that is "interested" in looking at his cold cases from different angles, and not blowing people off. And surprisingly, he seemed genuinely excited by the Zodiac possibility.

I think the Z could of been moving around, due to jobs, or hobbies.... or even lack of job. I feel we really have to think out of the box, and look at everything that looks like it could be possible Z related.
Also we are looking for 37 Victims... for sure.......and after that letter, maybe more. I like the way your Detective Friend is thinking Morf, out of the box, and will look at things from a different angle. The OLD angle, composite, description etc... did NOT catch the Z. Need to look deeper at different clews and victims!!!

Could Z have been a pilot with a small Cesna? Sure this has been brought up before...just came to me as I was reading this trying to think who would have the ability to get around undetected so well? Salesman, Govnt Emplyee, Professional Pilot, Truckdriver, route driver.....endless

Boilermaker wrote:

Could Z have been a pilot with a small Cesna? Sure this has been brought up before...just came to me as I was reading this trying to think who would have the ability to get around undetected so well? Salesman, Govnt Emplyee, Professional Pilot, Truckdriver, route driver.....endless

Certainly possible. Maybe he took that regularly scheduled flight to and from Southern CA?

Don't forget, there was a small landing strip across from Zodiac island at LB, right on the Big Island! I posted the info on Z.com some time ago.

-Nin

The Detective in this case said he would like to speak with me on Tuesday. I am interested so see shat he has to say. Should be interesting!

Nin, I'm interested in the air strip..... can you share more?

And Morf, keep us posted!

Zamantha wrote:

Nin, I'm interested in the air strip..... can you share more?
..

Here it is, Zam:







http://aerofiles.com/airports-CA.html

Berryessa (island) Lake Berryessa [38 34 03N 122 13 34W] (19??-19??) 19?? = (R) Rough dirt strip on island, favored NW winds. See also Lake Berryessa SPB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Berryessa

One of the larger islands supported a small plane landing area, but was closed down in the early 1970s after the FAA issued a safety report.

Morf or who ever has an interest in airports and landing strips should take a look at this site. There are four such places in or near LB. They are Pope Valley, Angwin, Mysterious Valley and Lake Berryessa. Use your "find a word" to locate the places on the list, it is long and not alphabetical. By clicking on each one, you will get much info and a map of where the strip is located.

RunwayFinder

http://www.runwayfinder.com/list/ca/

Interesting stuff. I think Z could have been a pilot based on the wingwalker tracks, but I dont want this thread to get detoured. This thread was mainly about the two possible Z victims killed in Alameda County in June, 1967. If anyone wants to start a thread about Z and a airport/runway connection, please do so in the THEORIES section. I would certainly be interested in reading more on it.

I am pretty excited. I spoke today with the Alameda Detective that is in charge of this case for about 30 minutes, and after reviewing the info I sent him on the Lake Herman Rd 12/20/68 murders, he is in agreement that there are some strong similarities to this murder. Couple attacked on lovers lane, guy killed immediately, girl abducted and taken away (like Johns) only to be shot in the back as she ran. Attack happened at night in the 10pm-12am window,just like LHR and BRS. Small caliber gun, most likely a .22 was used. He is going to take a closer look at it, primarily to see if they made a determination on the gun make/model, and what they may have as far as shell casings, ballistics, and any other evidence. That's the good news.

Here's the bad news...Their department, due to moving, and 40 years passing, has misplaced some of the important stuff. They have a backup storage place where they may have some stuff, but that placed had some sort of damage a long time ago that caused the loss of 8 years of files. The Officer said he is in the process of checking with the lab and coroner to see what, if any records they have. He is going to reach out to some of the older officers, and even to the familiy members of the victims to see what they may have to offer. He already assured me that he is interested enough should they find shell casings or ballistics evidence that seems to be a link, he may go straight to Solano County sheriffs dept to see if there is a match.

Also of interest,he commented on the double murder of two girls killed in December of 1973 from his jurisdiction. They were both shot on the side of the road, neither was raped or robbed. I think they may be listed in the Graysmith book, but before posting their names, I will check them out a little more and see if I can find any articles on them

This is a very interesting case that I've never heard of before; it could very well be a Zodiac deal. Keep us posted, morf - I'm also eager to know about the 1973 case!

Nachtsider wrote:

This is a very interesting case that I've never heard of before; it could very well be a Zodiac deal. Keep us posted, morf - I'm also eager to know about the 1973 case!

If time permits, I will try and post some more tonight about the 1973 double murder