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 June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:03 pm

morf13 wrote:
I am pretty excited. I spoke today with the Alameda Detective that is in charge of this case for about 30 minutes, and after reviewing the info I sent him on the Lake Herman Rd 12/20/68 murders, he is in agreement that there are some strong similarities to this murder. Couple attacked on lovers lane, guy killed immediately, girl abducted and taken away (like Johns) only to be shot in the back as she ran. Attack happened at night in the 10pm-12am window,just like LHR and BRS. Small caliber gun, most likely a .22 was used. He is going to take a closer look at it, primarily to see if they made a determination on the gun make/model, and what they may have as far as shell casings, ballistics, and any other evidence. That's the good news.

Here's the bad news...Their department, due to moving, and 40 years passing, has misplaced some of the important stuff. They have a backup storage place where they may have some stuff, but that placed had some sort of damage a long time ago that caused the loss of 8 years of files. The Officer said he is in the process of checking with the lab and coroner to see what, if any records they have. He is going to reach out to some of the older officers, and even to the familiy members of the victims to see what they may have to offer. He already assured me that he is interested enough should they find shell casings or ballistics evidence that seems to be a link, he may go straight to Solano County sheriffs dept to see if there is a match.

Also of interest,he commented on the double murder of two girls killed in December of 1973 from his jurisdiction. They were both shot on the side of the road, neither was raped or robbed. I think they may be listed in the Graysmith book, but before posting their names, I will check them out a little more and see if I can find any articles on them

Okay, I found these two victims that the Detective told me about after he told me they were looking at the possibility they could be Z victims since there was no motive:

One of them was MICHAEL MARIE SHANE ( a woman) and she is mentioned in the yellowbook under possible victims. But oddly enough, the woman who was killed with her was NOT mentioned in the book, her name was CATHY SUE PETHEL. The details:

They were hitchhiking from San Fran to the L.A. area on 12/3/73 at about 5:30 am. They were both shot with a .38 on Fallon Rd a mile from Santa Rita. Shane was shot twice in the chest. Pethel twice in the back, and once in the head after she fell. Again, no motive as far as robbery or rape, and it happened within a 15 minute period between witnesses seeing them. I will post articles in another thread when I get a chance.
The interesting things here, we have yet another victim shot in the back multiple times. And since it was 5:30am, there is a good chance it was still dark, and more likely a light was used to aide the shooter.

NOTE: I also think it is important to note that the Detective also said they were considering the possibility that these women were the victims of the Black militant BLACK PANTHERS or the ZEBRA group, and as a matter of fact, the articles state that the police were considering this possibilty
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Great find !   Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:31 pm

I posted on a different thread this past week, about the same two girls from S.F., who's bodys were found near Livermore off of 580 freeway. That was near the area I felt that could have been where K.Johns had escaped from her abductor in 1970 ?
There was also a young high school girl from Antioch, who was seen thumbing a ride off of A st. in Antioch, sometime in the early 90's .
Her body was found (I am pretty sure) in the same area as Michael Shane and Cathy fechtel.
It wasn't ruled a murder I don't think, because it was alcohol poisoning. But her body had been dumped, off of 580 near Livermore.
About that same time frame, there was another woman who died in her car, from the same thing in Antioch. I couldn't help but remember reading that the Z was believed to practice killing a few times, before completing his act.
He did like to try different ways of killing, also using different weapons.

It is so good to hear that there is a Detective, who is willing to take the time to investigate a cold case as old as these, and even believe that the Zodiac could have been the perp !!!! The area of Sunol is very close to water, my daughter and her friends use to swim there in the summer time. There is a railroad crossing trestle ,that overlooks that area. They reported a older man watching them from that trestle in the 60's. They had a creepy feeling, seeing this man watching them. Years later they wondered if he could have been the Zodiac ?
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:41 pm

Yes Good news, this Detective is open to some solutions to solve his cold cases. In the meantime, he called me today, and we discussed something of interest. If he says it is okay, perhaps I will be able to share it. Maybe a link to 12/20/68 Lake Herman Rd......we shall see Shocked
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:45 pm

I am happy to say that the bullets in this case are at the lab being tested for a possible match against the LHR 12/20/68 bullets. Shocked Stay Tuned!
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:17 pm

Good job Morf.

Depending on what happens, you may wish to remind the detective that the June 4, 1963 murder of Domingos and Edwards in Santa Barbara County, a possible Z crime, was also done with Winchester Western .22 Super X ammo, six right hand twists and grooves.

This crime happened on June 8, 1967?

If so, that is 4 years and 4 days after the Domingos-Edwards murders.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:37 pm

I dont want to get ahead of myself here. I guess the odds are against this couple being Z victims, but it is still pretty exciting, and the Detective is taking it pretty seriously
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:45 pm

This great article shows the victims reported being followed and getting prank calls prior to their murders. Does this sound like any victim of Zodiac's? Shocked


Last edited by morf13 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:29 pm

Stalking and the heavy breathing hang up calls - MO of EAR/ONS.
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:11 pm

Doesn't sound like any Zodiac victim to me.
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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Seems more like pissed off husband or wife...or maybe murder for hire.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:37 pm

I know that Darlene Ferrin may or may not have had stalker issues... maybe, maybe not. There seems to have been some of staements made about people watching her or outside her house.

If Kathleen Johns was a Z victim, she may well have been stalked..or targeted on the road. She was definitely followed.

The murder for hire thing is interesting, but I cant see a hired killing taunting his victims with calls, and risking being seen by witnesses. I think a quick shot to the back of the head would be more likely...in and out fast.

The possibility of the Jealous Husband or lover has been ruled out by police in this case.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:03 am

One way or another, the Detective says they will have lab results back by the end of next week. I am still a bit confused, as I dont know what specific results he means. Is he just looking at lines/grooves, etc? From what I read, the bullets would have to be directly compared to the LHR bullets under a microscope to get a 100% match. We will see, maybe some news next week.
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue May 11, 2010 3:52 pm

Heard back from the Detective in this case today :

The Good News- The bullets found in these victims match the lines, grooves,turns, twists, etc, against the bullets taken from the LHR victims.

The Bad News- There are quite a few different model guns that could make those markings

The Next step- The Detective is gathering a little more info, and talking to the next of kin of these two victims, specifically trying to get details of the car/man that followed them, and made the prank calls. He then may go straight to the source to compare side by side the bullets taken from these two victims against the bullets from Faraday & Jensen to see if they came from the same gun.....stay tuned, this could be big. affraid
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue May 11, 2010 4:18 pm

This is excellent news, Morf! Great job, you stuck to your convictions and it looks like it might pay-off.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue May 11, 2010 4:45 pm

Seagull wrote:
This is excellent news, Morf! Great job, you stuck to your convictions and it looks like it might pay-off.

Thanks. Like I said, its still a longshot as there are many guns that leave these marks, but I will be patient and see where this goes.
However, Its hard to dismiss the similarities between this case and the LHR murders.

UPDATED: More Good News, This Detective has also offered to submit my POI's DNA into CODIS......I have it in the freezer until then! How cool is that???
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue May 11, 2010 6:01 pm

Good job Morf.

If he is saying that that the preliminary analysis says the bullets from this 1967 couples murder match the Zodiac murder at LHR - .22 Super X, six right hand twists and grooves - then they also match what was found at Santa Barbara 1963, the murder of Domingos and Edwards.
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue May 11, 2010 6:37 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Good job Morf.

If he is saying that that the preliminary analysis says the bullets from this 1967 couples murder match the Zodiac murder at LHR - .22 Super X, six right hand twists and grooves - then they also match what was found at Santa Barbara 1963, the murder of Domingos and Edwards.

He did confirm that they have the same twists, and grooves, and clockwise movement. He forgot to ask the ballistics person if the brand of ammo could be determined. Remember, all he has are the bullets, no shell casings. He said that even if the bullets in this case are NOT Long Rifle Rounds or Super X ammo, they could still have been fired from the same gun. Thats where the side by side comparison will come into play. I know he has started the wheels in motion now to get a side by side comparison done.







Last edited by morf13 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed May 12, 2010 12:59 am

This is the area where the female was shot in the back as she ran. Geary Rd entrance to sunol Regional park.


If anyone wants to put a google earth photo of the scene here, the coordinates are: 37° 31' 49.70" N 121° 51' 10.31" W
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed May 12, 2010 3:07 am

Good work there Morph, glad to see a detective willing to listen and use their initiative. Very Happy
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed May 12, 2010 9:19 am

Directions to the park entrance where the female was shot:

From the Fremont area:
Drive north on I-680 and exit at Calaveras Road. Turn right on Calaveras and proceed to Geary Road, which leads directly into the park.
From the Oakland/Berkeley area:
Drive east on I-580 to the junction with I-680 in Pleasanton. At the junction, go south on I-680 and exit at Calaveras Road/Highway 84 just south of the town of Pleasanton. Turn left onto Calaveras Road and proceed to Geary Road, which leads directly into the park.
From the Walnut Creek/Danville area:
Go south on I-680 and exit at Calaveras Road/Highway 84 just south of the town of Pleasanton. Turn left onto Calaveras Road and proceed to Geary Road, which leads directly into the park


You can see how Pleasanton is right there, and that is where one of the letters from Z was postmarked, and Livermore is closeby, not too far from the Johns attack.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed May 12, 2010 9:23 am

View from calaveras reservoir in Sunol park, looks alot like Berryessa.
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Wed May 12, 2010 3:08 pm

Its consistent with the possible water theme, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Sat May 15, 2010 12:10 am

Continuing to look at the Alameda County connections in the Z case.

"citizen" letter, sent from Alameda County
"Exorcist" card, sent from Alameda County
"Donna Lass xmas card" sent from Alameda County

Found this post from the year 2000, from Doug Oswell "Someone once informed me that in Berkeley during the 60's the "Blue Meannies" was a slang term for Alameda County Sheriff's Deputies. Supposedly when they were on riot control duty they wore a distinctive light blue jump suit."


Kathleen Johns attacked, pretty close to the Livermore/pleasanton area. Actually, the Johns attack area, and the June 67 Victims attack site are directly across from each other separated by the Sunol Park, as shown below. If only my computer skills were as good as some others on here like NIN,and BENTLEY Laughing



Conveniently located for access to San Francisco and Silicon Valley, the town of Pleasanton, California has actively maintained a small town atmosphere. Concerts in the parks are commonplace on warm summer evenings. Golden Eagle Estates of Pleasanton is a most prestigious gated estate enclave of premier homes. Each residence is sited on estate size grounds with breathtaking views of Mt Diablo and the Pleasanton Valley.

I am going to spin this topic off into another topic in the THEORIES section regarding where Z most likely lived.


Last edited by morf13 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:43 am

I think it is quite possible that Zodiac was from Alameda county, specifically in the Pleasanton area. WHY?

1-This possible June 1967 Z crime in Pleasanton. (Time will tell if it is or is not a Z crime)

2- Exorcist letter postmarked from Pleasanton

3- Citizens card postmarked there??? I have read mixed anwers on that, does anyone know for sure? According to Zodiackiller.com it was postmarked in Alameda County

4- Xmas card sent to Donna Lass postmarked in Alameda County

5-March 1971 "LA TIMES" letter sent by Z, postmarked in PLEASANTON

6- Zodiac use dthe term "BLUE MEANNIES". Well check this out:
"During the Free Speech Movement riots of the 1960s, Alameda County Sheriff deployed several squads of officers. Clad in light blue jumpsuits, they quickly became known by anti-government protesters as "The Blue Meanies," a nickname that has lasted to this day"
found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alameda_County_Sheriff's_Office


"The most aggressive were the Alameda County Sheriff's deputies —later dubbed "The Blue Meanies"—who resorted to using shotguns loaded with "00" buckshot. "00" buckshot consists of lead pellets that are much larger, and thus more lethal, than the birdshot that is occasionally used for crowd control."
Found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Park

"As the protesters retreated, the Alameda County Sheriff's deputies chased them several blocks down Telegraph Avenue as far as Willard Junior High School at Derby Street"


TELEGRAPH AVE, mentioned in the article, where an attack, similar to the Bates MO happened!


More on the "Blue meannies" - http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2004-04-20/article/18700?headline=The-Bloody-Beginnings-of-People-s-Park

STILL MORE:
"It’s the Meanies … f**ckers are massing down at the south end of Telegraph,” he hissed. “They’re packin’ shotguns.”
The Meanies. Meaning the Blue Meanies. That’s what we called the Alameda County Sheriff’s Department. Why? Because the Blue Meanies looked just like the cartoon juggernauts who pursued the Beatles in their Yellow Submarine.
Found at: http://charlesdegelman.org/fiction_nails.html

Another refernce to the "blue meannies" in LIFE magazine from August 15,1969-
http://books.google.com/books?id=kEwEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=%22alameda+county%22+%22blue+meanies%22&source=bl&ots=DTNQpeia9D&sig=0H4cNPWMy9pu00TJKkcmnxlF__Q&hl=en&ei=GSkFTKOhM4P78Aat57HEDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDQQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22alameda%20county%22%20%22blue%20meanies%22&f=false
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??   Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:18 pm



Here is more on this article from the GRAYSMITH book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=8Wm6fvRvEqIC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=%22telegraph+avenue%22+%22berkeley%22+%22zodiac%22&source=bl&ots=20JTWxz1zf&sig=-K5pReKXDHQlRLUV4_zCPOF6zbk&hl=en&ei=YUAFTPudL4T48AbB9IHpDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22telegraph%20avenue%22%20%22berkeley%22%20%22zodiac%22&f=false
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