More on Don Bujok

Kevin B wrote:

Who wants to work on this with me? There are several things i could do myself but this is time consuming. I'm asking again.
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But if this is Z, this is the result of this websites willingness to let people explore and the help Rand, Morf, Julia, Zam, Tracers and that guy from Sweden who is awesome!!!!
Kevin R. Brooks October 16th 2011

Well, I for sure would like to help you. But I should tell you my best ability is to entertain while others investigate.
Or perhaps irritate every now and then.
And secondly, I cant stand that guy from Sweden. And he is a lousy guitarplayer.
Honestly, I have had an similiar story behind me as you. Feeling great at this moment in my life, but for about 8 years I lived in my own purgatory.
The good part is that we are both better. And the upside of down is that is how people can really learn to appreciate life.
A tip for everyone. DONT mix the teachings of Castaneda combined with large amounts of various selfmedicated substances.
Its fun until you manage to erase your own personal history. I was so screwed up I couldn´t go to a doctor even haha..
So I fixed myself. Its more fun to watch the twillight zone then living in that zone.
But its okey. It is what it is. I got alot of wisdom in return. Alot of pain. But thats part of a birth right? Or a rebirth.
I now have a great life. My kids are blessed to have me. As I am blessed to have been given the opportunity to take care of them for as long as I last.
Wow. alot of personal stuff. But it feels nice to share some since we are some kind of dysfunctional family over here at ZKS.
Zodiac always joked. We just have to find the Boo..
And im sure you have alot you havent shared yet Kevin, but I still lean somwhat towards that Edwards is involved. Certainly might be involved.
I have been looking at the origin of Jolly Roger and son ended up with Edwards. Blackbeard. Treasure Island.
And Zodiacs FK im crack proof could have been a reference to a person named something FK that was a leading researcher on the illness Buok had.
Damn, my mind is slipping. And perhaps if Bujok was diagnosed with some kind of Cerebral Pares.
That would line up nicely with the thing inside he couldnt control. And later there were a perhaps letter about being in control of all things.
He battled illnes his whole life I guess?

Kevin B wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Kevin, I got the writing samples, I appreciate it. I will NOT post them or share them without your permission.

Here are my honest thoughts on what i see, and let me preference it by saying I am not a writing expert of any sort-

1- The samples of printing show that Bujok wrote VERY SMALL. I dont recall Z having very small writing

2- Bujok uses a lower case I, the likes of which, I have never seen, it is very unusual. The loer case B is also very different.

3-I do NOT think the writing looks like the writing on the car door at Berryessa, specifically the NUMBERS

4- Looks like a 3 stroke K

5- The one letter in the Z letters that stands out and I think I would recognize anyplace, is the lower case D which almost lies on its side. The lower case D in the sample does NOT look like that

This is my opinion, and it is an honest one.....unless Bujok disguised his writing on the samples you sent me, I would have to say without a doubt, he did NOT write the Zodiac letters. Your argument could be that perhaps he disguised the writing in the Z letters, but why would he need to? He wasnt from the Vallejo area, he was from a place a thousand miles away, so why would he need to disguise his writing, not like anyone in the bay area would recognize it.

Again, I know you are likely not going to like this opinion, and if you choose to share it here on this forum with everybody, you likely will not be happy with those opinions either, but I would have to say with no doubt, that Bujok did NOT write the Z letters. Maybe your print evidence will be a match, but I dont think the writing will.

Morf,
First I want to thank you for your help as you have just validated several things for me. Here is a police description taken from Robert Graysmith’s book Zodiac page 313. See my comments on next post!




Zodiac Hand printing


Small cramped style; blue felt tip pen, double postage; writing trails downward towards right. Stamps are pasted at odd angles; write has exhortations to rush and hurry on outside envelope. He always abbreviates California.

He uses few contractions and has good knowledge of punctuation.

He uses Military way of numbering pages.

He abbreviates “San Fran Chron” or “Chronicle.”

Writes “Editor on back.”

His spelling is good because he spells words correctly after having spelled them incorrectly in the same letter.

Left margin and printed lines were ruler straight. Size of letters showed patience, concentration, and an interest in details and follow through.

Variability and spacing and letter size means he is he is manic depressive.

Slant downward at the end of letter means depression.

Letters on Eton bond, 7 1/2 by 10”, with matching envelope.

In signing “yours truly;” odd punctuation.

Always begins with phrase “this is the zodiac speaking “; no punctuation after his opening phrase, it runs directly into the first sentence with a period at the end of “that.” (This varied only twice, in the

first letter to Vallejo Times Herald and chronicle.)

Everyone else is always lowercase but “Zodiac” and “I” are always uppercase.

Cursive d, sometimes 3 stroke k.
Letter i with dot circle over it. Letter N very small, not too round.

Most important: checkmark r.

W changes the most –rounded and then pointed.

Even in a carefully drawn letter, zodiac would cross out a word rather than begin again.

Kevin, good work getting the printing, and yes, some of what you wrote would describe Zodiac's writing. And although some of what you wrote also describes Bujok's writing, that does not change the fact that ot does NOT look like Bujok's at least in my own opinion. Now who knows, maybe you can post it here, and everyone else will disagree with me, but that is up to you.

Morf, you may have missed my previous post edit: How many words are contained in the sample you have seen? All hand printed? Felt tip pen? Upper, lower case?

One idea if a lawyer is advising not to post (?), is to put an overlay on it so it cannot be copied without. However at this point, at least having read Morf's analysis, I'm a lot less curious to see it.

bentley wrote:

That was part of my "etc.."

Edit: How many words of Bujok's writing did you see Morf?

Not enough for me to really get excited one way or the other. It is writing on postcards and the backs of polaroid photos. Mostly dates, etc.

When I tell you that the lower case 'i' is very weird, it is nothing like any I have ever seen before, including in the Z case. There are a few of the letter 'K', but I just wish they were larger or clearer. They do not, as far as I can tell, look like the two letter K's written by Z seen here:



Also, I lookd for a letter 'F' from Bujok, but didnt find any. I wanted to see if if matched up with the candy cane F used by Zodiac.

Finally, I looked at the number 2 written by Bujok, and it does NOT look like the one written on Hartnells door. Bujok's looks like a normal 2. The car door one looks like a Z.


Kevin, dont get discouraged, even if Bujok did not write the letters, he still could be Z, or be part of a Z 'team', that may or may not have included Valentine & Edwards. Although, I have been giving some thought to this, and that is that Zodiac's cab prints have to be in national print databases. Since Valentine, and Edwards were both arrested in the last few years and entered into the prison system, I would think that their prints would definitely have been a match for Zodiac's cab print if one of them was Z.

The one thing that I have to agree with on Kevin, is that the 'Deer Lodge' reference used by Zodiac at Lake Berryessa, was very unusual and may have been a major clue. Why would he lie to them if he knew he would be killing them in a few minutes? Maybe it was a slipup on his part? Maybe Z was a friend of Valentine's , and when Valentine got released from Deer Lodge, this Friend just mentioned Deer Lodge. Perhaps if Z was a friend of Valentines, Valentine may have even shared stories about the weird guy 'Don Bujok, that used to talk of slaves in the afterlife'.

Who knows? But soon enough, you should have the print report. Bujok will either match the Z prints or he will not.

Morf:

Bentley--you make me laugh. Right before I read your post I was getting ready to comment, then you mentioned me. You read my mind.

I don't think the car door writing looks like Zodiac's--as mentioned. It's similar at first glance, but when you actually compare it to individual letters only a couple of them really look like his. Check out almost ALL of Zodiac's 'j's". Not a match. Check out his "n's"...not a match. ...And he colored in the circles which I don't recall Zodiac ever doing w/colons.

Which brings me to this:

Kevin: Where did you get this photo? This a remake. That coor door is too damn clean...and the circles are not filled in. No way is this the actual door. I wonder who did the writing?

.

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tahoe27 wrote:

Bentley--you make me laugh. Right before I read your post I was getting ready to comment, then you mentioned me. You read my mind.

I don't think the car door writing looks like Zodiac's--as mentioned. It's similar at first glance, but when you actually compare it to individual letters only a couple of them really look like his. Check out almost ALL of Zodiac's 'j's". Not a match. Check out his "n's"...not a match. ...And he colored in the circles which I don't recall Zodiac ever doing w/colons.

Which brings me to this:

Kevin: Where did you get this photo? This a remake. That coor door is too damn clean...and the circles are not filled in. No way is this the actual door. I wonder who did the writing?

.

It's a movie prop.... Good observation!

tahoe27 wrote:

Bentley--you make me laugh. Right before I read your post I was getting ready to comment, then you mentioned me. You read my mind.

I don't think the car door writing looks like Zodiac's--as mentioned. It's similar at first glance, but when you actually compare it to individual letters only a couple of them really look like his. Check out almost ALL of Zodiac's 'j's". Not a match. Check out his "n's"...not a match. ...And he colored in the circles which I don't recall Zodiac ever doing w/colons.

Which brings me to this:

Kevin: Where did you get this photo? This a remake. That coor door is too damn clean...and the circles are not filled in. No way is this the actual door. I wonder who did the writing?

.

You beat me..

Bentley, looks pretty close but post the original please. I threw the other one on because I found it quick.

Here is the right one... I think they did a pretty good job but I'm no handwriting expert.

[url=https://servimg.com/view/16737055/109][/url]

tahoe27 wrote:

Bentley--you make me laugh. Right before I read your post I was getting ready to comment, then you mentioned me. You read my mind.

I don't think the car door writing looks like Zodiac's--as mentioned. It's similar at first glance, but when you actually compare it to individual letters only a couple of them really look like his. Check out almost ALL of Zodiac's 'j's". Not a match. Check out his "n's"...not a match. ...And he colored in the circles which I don't recall Zodiac ever doing w/colons.

Which brings me to this:

Kevin: Where did you get this photo? This a remake. That coor door is too damn clean...and the circles are not filled in. No way is this the actual door. I wonder who did the writing?

.

Hi tahoe

Concerning the writing style on the car door, consider the proabatility that Zodiac was more or less standing upright bending downwards while writing (Hartnels car was a very low car), meaning he would write kind of "downwards" which would change his writing, both concerning letters and numbers.

Here you can see how low the Karmann Ghia is:







And due to the picture above is taken from "down below angle", here is a link to a random picture of another Karmann Ghia with a person standing beside.

http://www.stevewyant.net/jpg/1971-Karmann-Ghia-Steve.jpg

Post the damned handwriting... Its alreay in the hands of a handwriting expert. Lets have a look.
Come´on. Its not crimescene evidence. Kevin?
We have only been patiently waiting for a couple of weeks.

I just posted over at Z.com that I am yet not comfortable with the parole date of Bujok as being the actual release date. Has anyone actually seen the parole certificate? Also, what would have most likely been the direct route from Montana State prison to Napa Bujok would have chosen? Tom is making a viable point and asking how could Bujok have made the distance over wintery roads in only 3 days? Is anyone familiar with the route?

-Nin

Nin wrote:

I just posted over at Z.com that I am yet not comfortable with the parole date of Bujok as being the actual release date. Has anyone actually seen the parole certificate? Also, what would have most likely been the direct route from Montana State prison to Napa Bujok would have chosen? Tom is making a viable point and asking how could Bujok have made the distance over wintery roads in only 3 days? Is anyone familiar with the route?

-Nin

I have not seen it, but I DID talk to a prison record Rep, and I asked her about the date, and if that was the date he was approved for parole, or the date he actually walked out of prison, and they told me it WAS the day that he left prison. Whether they are right or not, I cant say.

Thanks, morf. I recall you posting that. I'd really like to see the certificate though and the actual release date. I guess, I would expect they gave the parolee some time to prepare for release and to make the neccessary arrangements.

-Nin

Morf's right about Z's 2s, and I've commented on it before, I don't recall any that have a loop at the bottom, which usually also results in a curved lower leg. People tend to be loopers or non-loopers. I'm a looper, my parents were loopers. My sister is a lefty-looper. I may have non-looped on occasion, but the lower leg is still curved. Some of the Z suspects are loopers, which, in my mind, cuts them out of the loop.

Yes, I know, you don't have to say it. It's the medication.

Nin wrote:

I just posted over at Z.com that I am yet not comfortable with the parole date of Bujok as being the actual release date. Has anyone actually seen the parole certificate? Also, what would have most likely been the direct route from Montana State prison to Napa Bujok would have chosen? Tom is making a viable point and asking how could Bujok have made the distance over wintery roads in only 3 days? Is anyone familiar with the route?

-Nin

to my sources.

Kevin B wrote:

Nin wrote:

I just posted over at Z.com that I am yet not comfortable with the parole date of Bujok as being the actual release date. Has anyone actually seen the parole certificate? Also, what would have most likely been the direct route from Montana State prison to Napa Bujok would have chosen? Tom is making a viable point and asking how could Bujok have made the distance over wintery roads in only 3 days? Is anyone familiar with the route?

-Nin

Roundup is up straight shot right to Vallejo...... I'd better say there is some different roads on the way, as you all will try and nail me on that one.... But Roundup to Vallejo; straight shot. People in Montana are very used to traveling long distances as they are one tough breed. It's a 20 hour trip he had 72.... Again, he was manic depressive and would stay up for days at a time according to my sources.

Thanks, Kevin. I see it's an 18 hrs 28 mins / 1179.36 miles trip via I- 80. Let's add another 90 minutes to consider any non existing roads back then. I am not familiar with how the time compares to winter conditions and if the roads were accessible in general. Ice and snow can be a real hazard, especially if a vehicle is not equipped accordingly.

Bears the question, if he wanted to shoot someone, why waiting to get to Vallejo? Or did he kill someone else on his trip? How did he get the gun?

-Nin

[url=http

Bujok would have had to provide the parole board with an address, where he was going to. That's what they require in order to issue a parole certificate. In other words, the parole papers for Bujok would clearly indicate where he was heading. Parole means serving the remainder of a sentence outside of prison. The parolee has to report to a parole officer. That would clearly identify Bujok's destination upon leaving Deer Lodge, I would say.

-Nin

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