More on Don Bujok

tahoe27 wrote:

thebigZ wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

Just got a rather nasty note from Tom Voight seems he's suddenly a Bujok believer. What happened to Gaik "it's in the cypher"!

I'm sure I've received more nasty emails from him than you, lol. They're actually quite entertaining. Just keep up the good work and don't worry about it. Comes with the territory I guess.

If he is a Bujok believer, why a nasty email? Maybe you were being sarcastic?

I was on the

I agree to the part about nothing is proven yet. And even if Bujoks handwriting matches the Zodiacs, there is still alot of unanswered questions.
But a confirmed match would be unbelievable amazing. And I really think Bujok fit every aspect of being the Zodiac.
Wasn´t Bundys extensive travels something previously unheard of or even considered? Bundy and Bujok shared the same condition.
That in my mind at least, ends the question IF he could have traveled from Montana to California to commit murder. Or travel extensivly.

Kevin have posted alot of really amazing information. And I bet that you Kevin have to resist the urge to post the best parts and details until the PD have acted.
And if the parts about Bujok that is posted isn´the best parts, then that says alot.
And I have no problems with anyone that have a POI that they truly believes in. That determination have brought forward alot of the information we have on various forums. If I would have a problem with someone believing in a POI that I dont believe in, I dont read that POI thread. Why bother?
And who know who is right? Belief and determination is essential for getting further than just scratching the surface.
Though I might disagree with others opinion on various POIs, I respect the work that have been produced with that same determination.

Kevin, what is your opinion about if he acted alone? Besides that he was considered a loner in general.
And what to think about Dryman and Edwards?
Edwards page about Dryman (from Vallejo) and Bujok and the fact that Dryman/Valentine/Houston dissappered into thin air for 40 years. Most people just move out of the house. Unless they have to many skeletons in the closet.
Perhaps permanently insane but sane enough to start a wedding chapel unlicensed under an assumed name, befriending and even aidin the local policeforce.
And clever enough to becoming the longest uncaptured fugitive in Califonia right?
Funny enough I pictured Zodiac laughing if ever caught. And Dryman was laughing all through the trails and the death sentences that followed.
Could Edwards or Dryman been involved in Bates murder? Because Bates murder and the letters that followed was similiar but different.
(Bates had to die, the confession.) Though not confirmed a Zodiac murder I think its unlikely that the letters was unrelated to what became The Zodiac.
Too tired to make any point. But pretty good rambling at least.
Mr Ed.itor. Hmm.. Still stuck in my brain.
What kind of chemical products were the company selling/manufacturing by the way, Kevin?

My poi does not match the cab prints but they are still seeking his dna. Paul Holes told me 'we dont know if any of those prints are from Zodiac' and that lots of people use acab. Kevin what is your theory on the Bates murder and writings?

KevinB,
Just tell us what you can...when you can. And if you feel you can't share right now...that's cool also. It
sounds like you maybe shouldn't share at this point...until you get advised? I for one respect that.
I know a lot of us have read every thread on different sites, and every piece of info we can get our hands
on. <-- That means a lot of us are really interested in this guy. And I know you put gazillion man hours and time into this.
You will get a lot of questions, a lot of debates even if you are right or wrong, it's just the way it is in the Z world.
Just do your own thing.

Keeping plugging away!

Zincerely, Zam

AK Wilks wrote:

My poi does not match the cab prints but they are still seeking his dna. Paul Holes told me 'we dont know if any of those prints are from Zodiac' and that lots of people use acab. Kevin what is your theory on the Bates murder and writings?

But the prints could rule him IN. If DBs prints match the cab, what are the chances he used it before Z got in.

The handwriting, I dunno. Handwriting experts Morrell and the guy from DOJ (forget his name) disagreed on some of Zs. IMO the collective minds here who have studied every single word of every Z letter stand as much of a chance of correctly identifying his writing.

Again I have to wonder if Z would have been that bold to write about slaves and afterlife after the Deer Lodge reference had been made public. Maybe he only told Edwards. Or if he would write two letters regarding The Exorcist to two major newspapers, months apart. Maybe he would, maybe he wanted to see how far he could push his luck. Maybe he felt he'd be better off back in prison.

Would Dryman or Edwards capitalize on the fame or cop a plea bargain by outing Bujok?

Anyway, got a chuckle out of this:

No inmate serving a time sentence could be paroled until the inmate had served at least one-quarter of the inmate's full term, less good time; however, any inmate serving a time sentence may be paroled after serving 122 years.

Concurrent sentences, I presume. "Honey, burn a candle, I'll be out in 112 years!"

http://bopp.mt.gov/history/history.mcpx

Yes a match to cab prints is a rule in big time. A nonmatch is not a rule out. Kevin has developed lots of good evidence just asking him if he has atheory on Bates murder and writings.

Kevin B wrote:

Please don't get alarmed it's just an idea for a book name. Anytime you put pen to paper or computer in an original form it is automatically copy righted. I have a lot more information and I really do want to share it but I can't yet I'm sorry. I appreciate the help all of you have been, I really do. Morph was right, this is harder than you'd think to get everything done....

What do you think about those retired detectives who claim they solved the case and named Z, saying he is a 92 year old alcoholic living in Fairfield. They have written a book that will be released in the near future, if I'm remembering this correctly.

These detectives made their announcement not too long ago but I don't remember hearing anything about in in the major media.

I am sure you have good evidence but don't understand why you must delay in posting the little writing or whatever else you claim to have. You are teasing us, almost like Z would imo!

lovethecar wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

Please don't get alarmed it's just an idea for a book name. Anytime you put pen to paper or computer in an original form it is automatically copy righted. I have a lot more information and I really do want to share it but I can't yet I'm sorry. I appreciate the help all of you have been, I really do. Morph was right, this is harder than you'd think to get everything done....

What do you think about those retired detectives who claim they solved the case and named Z, saying he is a 92 year old alcoholic living in Fairfield. They have written a book that will be released in the near future, if I'm remembering this correctly.

These detectives made their announcement not too long ago but I don't remember hearing anything about in in the major media.

I am sure you have good evidence but don't understand why you must delay in posting the little writing or whatever else you claim to have. You are teasing us, almost like Z would imo!

What do they have on William Joseph Grant? He was a tall man with a huge face like a great owl Robert Graysmith wrote.... I have spoken to him and formed a friendship. He seems like a nice old man. He lives in Fairfield, California where my daughter lives. I don't know what they have on him to comment... He is still heavily involved in AA and seemed nice to me. His phone number is listed... He told me when he was young he was 6'1" and now he is about 5'10". Nothing I know of connects him to being Z except he hated cops as many people do. Maybe they have some good info my guess is it is all circumstantial as is mine ours but we do have prints with possible DNA. Read back my posts I have told you more than you have told me....

Dear Kevin, Please don't call yourself a asshole... It makes me very unhappy to hear you say that about yourself. It made me so upset that I got into my Dodge Ram and took a long drive, stopped at Carl's Jr. and got dinner. I for one, care deeply about this z missions. Kevin, SOMETIMES, We have to walk through the fire. Skeletons in the closet, why we'r old friends. It's the nature of the beast, that comes with the territory K. And if Robert said that about WJG? There must be something to it. But, there is one I would like to know at this time. Was Bujoks shoe size a 10 1/2. Because, if the shoe doesn't fit you must ________. [Z shoe size 10 1/2] P.s So nice to see Azazel come out of limb, you do have a way with words, amazing. You should be a writer Azazel, Are work for a news paper.

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Dear Kevin, Please don't call yourself a asshole... It makes me very unhappy to hear you say that about yourself. It made me so upset that I got into my Dodge Ram and took a long drive, stopped at Carl's Jr. and got dinner. I for one, care deeply about this z missions. Kevin, SOMETIMES, We have to walk through the fire. Skeletons in the closet, why we'r old friends. It's the nature of the beast, that comes with the territory K. And if Robert said that about WJG? There must be something to it. But, there is one I would like to know at this time. Was Bujoks shoe size a 10 1/2. Because, if the shoe doesn't fit you must ________. [Z shoe size 10 1/2] P.s So nice to see Azazel come out of limb, you do have a way with words, amazing. You should be a writer Azazel, Are work for a news paper.

Bujok wore a 14 eee

Thanks Tom!

Please note

I'M NOT TOM K I'M FEMALE,

Kevin B wrote:

I hope I don't get called monkey boy next....

Well, I have to say, claiming to have solved the case, working on book ideas before the results are in from LE and withholding information from those that have helped with this POI (even providing the intial conection to Deer Lodge and slaves in afterlife, iirc, which is really the important break in the whole matter) is not the way I would have handled it. That said, having someone run with that info and obtain hard evidence that LE can act on is commendable, and I hope, despite the logistics that point away from Bujok, things turn out positive and this case can be put to bed.

bentley wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

I hope I don't get called monkey boy next....

Well, I have to say, claiming to have solved the case, working on book ideas before the results are in from LE and withholding information from those that have helped with this POI (even providing the intial conection to Deer Lodge and slaves in afterlife, iirc, which is really the important break in the whole matter) is not the way I would have handled it. That said, having someone run with that info and obtain hard evidence that LE can act on is commendable, and I hope, despite the logistics that point away from Bujok, things turn out positive and this case can be put to bed.

Well said Bentley. I agree with you 100%

morf13 wrote:

bentley wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

I hope I don't get called monkey boy next....

Well, I have to say, claiming to have solved the case, working on book ideas before the results are in from LE and withholding information from those that have helped with this POI (even providing the intial conection to Deer Lodge and slaves in afterlife, iirc, which is really the important break in the whole matter) is not the way I would have handled it. That said, having someone run with that info and obtain hard evidence that LE can act on is commendable, and I hope, despite the logistics that point away from Bujok, things turn out positive and this case can be put to bed.

Well said Bentley. I agree with you 100%

The break for me was not anyone posting "slaves in the after-life" as I had had that book since the 70's. If ya want I'll post a picture of it. The break for me was when interviewing people and asking the right questions. Getting a wonderful friend 'Julia' to send me 2 updated mug shots. She has busted her ass trying to help me! The Deer lodge connection has been known since 1986 when Graysmith's book first came out! "No one my Gramps said followed the lead!" He told us who he was and fully expected Hartnell to die!

Edwards and Dryman have been recent news no one uncovered anything big there, it was in all of the papers and on TV!! Bujok is Z in my opinion. If I'm wrong I'll take the stone throwing! Cheers Bentley! Thanks Morph I have entrusted you with the most valuable piece of information I have and I get Cheers Bentley!!! Put Kevin in his place! The truth is I took off work for 2 weeks and spoke with everyone I could and rounded up hand printing and other important information.

My wife will tell you I have worked on this case for years and years... I did the detective work my grandfather taught me... I knew what to look for. What will you say to me if it comes back that it is solved? There are no logistics that point away from Bujok only old ideas about serial killers.

The truth is, this story is sad not only for the victims but for Bujok himself he was a very ill lonely man....

Kevin B.

Kevin B wrote:

The break for me was not anyone posting "slaves in the after-life" as I had had that book since the 70's. If ya want I'll post a picture of it.

No need for that, 'cause it looks to me like the answer is right here:

Kevin B- 07-18-2011

It's certainly interesting that 3 murderers known to have shot people to death for no real reason were acquainted with each other in Deer Lodge prison. Two, if not all three of them were then freed in time for the Z murders, one of whom turns up in Napa in 1969. Then as if by magic, a certain Z confronts a couple in Napa in 1969 saying he is an escaped murderer from Deer Lodge. Sure does seem against the odds that this is just a coincidence. Could Z be one of them, more than one of them or have been someone else who knew them in Deer Lodge? Sure is JonnyK! This is some find!!! Good, no, great find you all!!!!

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/a/posts.php?topic=4203&start=115

Morph has put many more than two weeks into all the digging he has done in the past, always shared his findings with us immediately and unselfishly, and I'm confident he would have done just hat again with Bujok had he not stepped aside when someone else was doing the same thing.

Kevin B wrote:

morf13 wrote:

bentley wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

I hope I don't get called monkey boy next....

Well, I have to say, claiming to have solved the case, working on book ideas before the results are in from LE and withholding information from those that have helped with this POI (even providing the intial conection to Deer Lodge and slaves in afterlife, iirc, which is really the important break in the whole matter) is not the way I would have handled it. That said, having someone run with that info and obtain hard evidence that LE can act on is commendable, and I hope, despite the logistics that point away from Bujok, things turn out positive and this case can be put to bed.

Well said Bentley. I agree with you 100%

The break for me was not anyone posting "slaves in the after-life" as I had had that book since the 70's. If ya want I'll post a picture of it. The break for me was when interviewing people and asking the right questions. Getting a wonderful friend 'Julia' to send me 2 updated mug shots. She has busted her ass trying to help me! The Deer lodge connection has been known since 1986 when Graysmith's book first came out! "No one my Gramps said followed the lead!" He told us who he was and fully expected Hartnell to die!

Edwards and Dryman have been recent news no one uncovered anything big there, it was in all of the papers and on TV!! Bujok is Z in my opinion. If I'm wrong I'll take the stone throwing! Cheers Bentley! Thanks Morph I have entrusted you with the most valuable piece of information I have and I get Cheers Bentley!!! Put Kevin in his place! The truth is I took off work for 2 weeks and spoke with everyone I could and rounded up hand printing and other important information.

My wife will tell you I have worked on this case for years and years... I did the detective work my grandfather taught me... I knew what to look for. What will you say to me if it comes back that it is solved? There are no logistics that point away from Bujok only old ideas about serial killers.

The truth is, this story is sad not only for the victims but for Bujok himself he was a very ill lonely man....

Kevin B.

What valuable piece of info is that??

[quote="morf13"][quote="Kevin B"]

morf13 wrote:

bentley wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

I hope I don't get called monkey boy next....

Well, I have to say, claiming to have solved the case, working on book ideas before the results are in from LE and withholding information from those that have helped with this POI (even providing the intial conection to Deer Lodge and slaves in afterlife, iirc, which is really the important break in the whole matter) is not the way I would have handled it. That said, having someone run with that info and obtain hard evidence that LE can act on is commendable, and I hope, despite the logistics that point away from Bujok, things turn out positive and this case can be put to bed.

Well said Bentley. I agree with you 100%

Kevin, I dont understand. I know you have told me a few things in confidence which I have not shared. But "the most valuable thing", which I assume was the writing sample or the most recent pic of Bujok that looks like Zodiac, I have not seen, as you have not shared them with me. Earlier today, in a pm, you mentioned you would send me something via email. I am still waiting for it.

I feel that citizens can not solve these unsolved murders, be it Zodiac or the SRHM or any other cold case murder. I think that the only thing we can realistically hope to do is to keep the cases alive so that they stay active and open. It will take a lot of work on the part of LE to prove that someone is a killer from long ago. That work has to be done by LE not a citizen. It will come down to forensics, something that none of us are qualified to do. A citizen can provide tips and leads for LE to work off of but ultimately it will be LE's doing that the cases get solved.

I think people are kidding themselves if they think they will solve the cases AND get credit for doing so. Solving crimes is LE's job, not ours. I do believe that the internet is a wonderful tool to create awareness and keep a dialogue going that may eventually assist LE in doing their job. That's why I keep hanging around the forums!

I disagree and truly think the citizens can solve this case. When it comes down to it LE will have to be involved cause for one they have the evidence and only there opinion of the evidence will matter. I though do not think there even trying to solve this case. In the end it will be citizens that solve it and if Le believes enough maybe they will go through the motions to help prove it.

StitchMallone wrote:

I disagree and truly think the citizens can solve this case. When it comes down to it LE will have to be involved cause for one they have the evidence and only there opinion of the evidence will matter. I though do not think there even trying to solve this case. In the end it will be citizens that solve it and if Le believes enough maybe they will go through the motions to help prove it.

I

StitchMallone wrote:

I disagree and truly think the citizens can solve this case. When it comes down to it LE will have to be involved cause for one they have the evidence and only there opinion of the evidence will matter. I though do not think there even trying to solve this case. In the end it will be citizens that solve it and if Le believes enough maybe they will go through the motions to help prove it.

Stitch,

a case cannot be called "solved" without hard evidence, fingerprints, dna, or confession with proof. I think that is what seagull was referring to. Citizens can make a connection, yes, but "solving" a case is bringing it to the end, which may or may not be court.
In Edward's case for example, I am most interested to see a possible connection to the Colonial Parkway killings. Edwards was released just a few months prior to the first killing.. Can I research? You bet. Can I get very far not being a local and interviewing folks? Nope. Can I access any collected evidence or police reports? Nope. Can I hope the case may be solved by LE while investigating certain trails pointing to Edwrads? Sure.

http://www.wtkr.com/news/wtkr-parkway-new-approach,0,6261763.story

"Solving" the Zodiac case in the sense of eventually positively identifying the killer, will heavily rely on capability and funding. Relying on a composite and handwriting only can be very misleading. No case will solve based on a composite. And re the handwriting, you have to have the perp almost duplicating the letters in the same mood and with the correct hand - if ambidextrous- and almost at the same age as he was when writing the letters. Or you are very lucky and can compare existing older handwriting samples, that were again written with the correct hand and in the underlying mood. So very much to consider.

Making a connection? Yes. Solving? Not so much. Not in the Zodiac case. But that's just me. And I am approving this message.

-Nin

Kevin B wrote:

I will tell you these hand-prints are with SF Police Department as are the newer mug shots. Inspector Holly Pera has read my information and said she was very impressed! She has turned it over to Inspector Kevin Jones who works on the cold cases including Zodiac. When I hear back I will tell you all the results. Morf I still think you are great and a friend. If this is solved it will be because of many not just me. I fully appreciate your encouragement to "keep digging." I appreciate Tracers help and Zam's wonderful personality as well. Rand, maybe it it is Houghton? Tom Voigt I don't know what I ever did to you as I posted the same thing on his site as I did here. I even sent you what extra money I could dig up... If can get them scaned I will post Bujok's pictures when he was in his 40's. He was very ill and looked nothing like he had when he was young. He does have the thick thick black glasses though. The pictures are of poor quality though.
KRB

Did you post the same stuff on both sites? I don't recall.