More on Don Bujok

bentley wrote:

I'm still struggling with the information posted here by Azazel a couple days ago, that Edwards claimed Bujok was known as Zodiac at Deer Lodge. So Bojok is Zodiac and talks about slaves for afterlife at Deer Lodge, and the only guy who remembers it is the guy promoting his new book? And Bujok actually then calls himself Zodiac during the crime spree? And LE, despite apparently being notified of this (this was all in a newspaper article), never checked his prints?

Seems the most incriminating evidence against Bujok - being called Zodiac at Deer Lodge, talking about slaves for his afterlife - come from Edwards.
Just kinda makes you wonder...

Kevin, I hope you will try to find someone who can back up Edwards' claims. A guard who worked there or another prisoner. Especially his talking about slaves for his afterlife. That would be extremely compelling evidence, imo.

A Point of Clarification: Why would Bujok talk about slaves for the afterlife? Was Bujok a follower of some eastern religion? (It's very possible that I missed the answer to this; if so, I apologize in advance). If Bujok didn't practice a religion that preached something along those lines, then it seems obvious to me that Edwards's is just blowing smoke: he knows Z spoke of slaves for the afterlife, so he says Bujok did too. Is there corroborating evidence that supports Edwards's claim? To be perfectly clear on this point: I, for one, think it is very important that a POI have a clear reason for having said that he was killing to collect slaves for the afterlife (btw, mine has one).

Yes, Rand; Simply Extraordinary. May be Bujok held up a bank? along his way to Calif. That could be how he got more $$$. But, I 4 one, will hold out for those prints and DNA.

I think we need to relax and face up to the fact that this is a cold case going back over 4 decades which no law official or agency has even come close to solving and getting there (if we ever do) might take more time.

Edwards has given us some clues/leads about Bujok being the Zodiac which needed to be checked out and one by one many have been checked out and approved . Credit must go to some of the researchers on here - and this includes Kevin in a big way - for digging for this info. The fact is that the easier info has been found, but now the hard part comes - DNA, fingerprints, placing him in the North Bay area in time for the murders, etc, etc. This is where most cases have fallen apart and we mustn't forget that every - and I mean EVERY Zodiac researcher with a favoured POI has yet to supply the incriminating evidence or answered the tough questions, whether we're talking about Richard Gaikowski, Mr X, Ted K, Bruce Davis, etc. We can all jump up and down and say "Look everyone - it simply has to be him" but until the final nails are driven home then it's just excitement over probable coincidences.

I think Kevin has put sudden, intense scrutiny on Bujok as a POI by suddenly claiming the case is solved. Rand has done this in past with TH and this eventually led to the bust up on Tom's board. I think most of us should face facts that this case is not solved until the remaining hard questions have been answered, which as yet they haven't been with any suspect. Hell, 3 years later and I'm still waiting to see a picture of Gaik in the late 60's as many people have suggested he was a hippy with long hair and a beard at this time and I'm still waiting to see non-cursive handwriting of his.

So far, every piece found on Bujok has ended up ruling him in, but we mustn't hold back anything on any of these subjects if at first glance the info doesn't appear to fit. Kevin - I think you've put yourself in a corner a bit by stating the case is solved but I'm really hoping you come up with the goods when put under the spotlight with the tough questions. One of these days, the tough questions and solid evidence might fit someone and it could well be Bujok for all any of us know. I'm looking forward to seeing more evidence soon.

Quagmire, well said! Bravo

Kevin, can I ask, what reason do you have for NOT releasing a photo of Bujok, or samples of his handwriting?? You are so quick to thank those of us that helped you, yet you choose to shut us out from all of the information you have. Not to toot my own horn, but I was the first one to supply a photo and prison record of Don Bujok. I didnt choose to hold that back and keep it to myself or keep it secret. I guess I just have not fully understood why you want to keep it secret. The writing samples are NOT EVIDENCE. There would be absolutely no reason NOT to post them on here, unless you are afraid that the samples will not stand up to scrutiny from people here. None of us are writing experts, but I am sure every one of us could form are own opinions regarding the writing. Same goes for the photo of Bujok, why not post it? It is NOT EVIDENCE. There is no need to hide it. Again, unless you think people will not think it looks like Zodiac, I dont know why you continue to keep it a secret.

No matter what, no matter how you slice it, if this case is ever solved as a result of these Zodiac forums & sites, credit will not go to one person, it will be a team effort made possible by all the various Zodiac forum members on the various forums. You may be the one that supplies the cops with the final piece of the puzzle that solves the case, but everyone over the years will have helped you put that puzzle together. I seriously hope you will reconsider posting what you have and let everybody make up their own minds and form their own opinions. You may get alot of people that like what they see and are there to help and support your efforts. Until you do, expect to catch some backlash and doubt since you stated the case was solved, but have posted nothing to back it up.

Quagmire wrote:

Rand has done this in past with TH and this eventually led to the bust up on Tom's board.

As always, I agree with everything you say. For the record, however, Tom ex-communicated me because I had the temerity to say that I didn't think Gaik was a good suspect; this really irked him because I had been working to show that he was Z. For me, the goods that were promised re Gaik just never materialized (and still haven't apparently based on what you say in your post). And many of the goods that were presented at the outset turned out to be dubious (e.g., the book with Stine's handwriting that was supposed to have been found in Gaik's apt.).

morf13 wrote:

Not to toot my own horn, but I was the first one to supply a photo and prison record of Don Bujok.

Toot your horn, it's your site

rand wrote:

A Point of Clarification: Why would Bujok talk about slaves for the afterlife? Was Bujok a follower of some eastern religion? (It's very possible that I missed the answer to this; if so, I apologize in advance). If Bujok didn't practice a religion that preached something along those lines, then it seems obvious to me that Edwards's is just blowing smoke: he knows Z spoke of slaves for the afterlife, so he says Bujok did too. Is there corroborating evidence that supports Edwards's claim? To be perfectly clear on this point: I, for one, think it is very important that a POI have a clear reason for having said that he was killing to collect slaves for the afterlife (btw, mine has one).

Good question Rand! 10/21/2011

Donald Lee Bujok was severely mentally ill. He suffered from Bi-Polar (Manic Depression) disorder as did his mother and showed obvious signs of psychosis. One of the most common indicators of 'psychosis' is solitude and isolation. Donald Lee Bujok was a loner in his own world and did not have any close friends in prison or in the real world for that matter. He never had a girlfriend anyone could tell me of yet! When the police said "we have a crazed killer on the loose”; they were right-on!"

I was told by my contacts (this is in police hands) “that Boujok read a lot." I know some think Ed Edward's may have been speaking about himself when he mentioned the inmate saying "all he killed would be slaves in paradise." Ed Edward's was a brutal sociopathic serial killer but I found him to be honest in what he said about the different inmates in his book through people who knew them. His manner of killing may have been similar (lovers lane shootings) but it was also very different; for he had sex with some of his victims and Zodiac did not. He also collected his bullet casings and to my knowledge, Zodiac did not! There are other things that I could go into but I'll make it short and sweet as we are talking about Donald Lee Bujok here.

The reason: Revenge! This man Donald Lee Bujok was very ill when there was not the knowledge they have today of his illness. I believe much of his behavior lye in the fact that he did not get the treatment he needed and spent a life lonely abused and ever tortured in Deer lodge prison as he could not control his behavior all of the time.

In Deer lodge there were reports from parolee's that spoke of brutal torture to the inmates. Remember what Zodiac said he would do to his slaves in paradise in his letter? Well see on page of Kevin Giles excellent book ‘Jerry’s Riot’ what the parolees reported and then see below what Zodiac wrote. Look at the Halloween card how Zodiac placed the skeleton “Christ like” hands held out wide and feet together as if crucified. He told us who he was and why plenty of times. But I’ll get to that later. Donald lee Bujok I believe is the Zodiac killer.
The copyright kid! I like it!


Kevin R. Brooks

Quagmire and Rand, Zam, Morf:

Thank you so much for your support and being civil and respectful of me. I believe 100% sure this is solved; but that is me. I believe in my heart it is. I could end up looking bad but I don't think so as my evidence is at least both circumstantial and hard (prints, writing.) I thank God for you letting me be a part of this site. If this is solved it is because of many and as a team we will have fun finding the next suspect.
I believe the handwriting that I sent Morf is "Zodiac like" but he did try to disguise his writing as either Zodiac or Bujok. There is only a small amount but I do have more coming. If this is solved we must make something good come out of the horror that both the victims went through and Zodiac the man went through as I believe his was a horrible existence. Remember, it is your site that dug up this info as the brilliant came here and I followed....

The reason I gave Morf this info is because I trust him and he has not let me down. I do not want this in the wrong hands. This is our work! After the prints are looked at then this site will have more to share….this site…. That's why I have been reluctant to put this out there. I suggest if you believe this is the man you call SFPD cold case division and tell them to get on it! Call NAPA as well! We did our part! I suggest people thank Julia Brewer for she has provided me with much help! Bujok's family have become close friends and I don't want to see them hurt. They have been a wealth of information and they have become close to me. Below where Donald Bujok became Zodiac

Kevin R. Brooks

Well, even if it isn't solved, you make a very handsome/pretty couple!

Kevin B wrote:

Kevin R. Brooks

Do you have any proof that Bujok spent time in "the hole"? You post a photo from the wiki page on montana state prison but show nothing
to show Bujok spent any time there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_State_Prison
Very misleading, imo, as life in Deer Lodge during the 60s seemed ok compared to other prisons.

Kevin B wrote:

Donald Lee Bujok was stationed at Fort Ord Monterey Bay California. Here is a picture of the wool pleated pants they wore. Zodiac's pants were described as pleated. They were also described as being either dark blue, rust or black; depending on which murder site we are talking about. They were also described as wool. Here is a sample of the uniforms they wore and Donald would have worn at Fort Ord. Also a picture drawn by Robert Graysmith of Zodiac at Lake Berrysessa. Robert Graysmith did one hell of a job keeping this case alive! Thank God for him!

So are you saying Bujok wore the same wool pleated pants in 1969 that he wore during his army stint in 1953-54?

caresut wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

Donald Lee Bujok was stationed at Fort Ord Monterey Bay California. Here is a picture of the wool pleated pants they wore. Zodiac's pants were described as pleated. They were also described as being either dark blue, rust or black; depending on which murder site we are talking about. They were also described as wool. Here is a sample of the uniforms they wore and Donald would have worn at Fort Ord. Also a picture drawn by Robert Graysmith of Zodiac at Lake Berrysessa. Robert Graysmith did one hell of a job keeping this case alive! Thank God for him!

So are you saying Bujok wore the same wool pleated pants in 1969 that he wore during his army stint in 1953-54?

No, What I am saying is that Bryan Hartnell as well as others reported Zodiac wearing wool pleated pants. These are the exact same style as Bujok wore when stationed at Fort Ord at Monterey Bay in California. Donald Lee Bujok loved everything military and liked to visit Army and Navy stores. The pants they made for the guards at Deer lodge were also wool and also had the same pleats. Donald knew how to sew and who else would sew Zodiac's hooded costume. The gun Zodiac used at the Lake Berryess attack probably was 'a Colt 45 1911A1 or Browning High Power.' They are both similar guns.
Donald Lee Bujok would have used the Colt 45 1911A1. Donald also worked at the upholstery shop, the garment shop, the auto mechanic shop and as a kitchen clerk while in Deer Lodge Montana. Inmate Frank Dryman painted many of the signs in the prison. Dryman also refurbished an ‘old pull type fire wagon’ that is still there today. See below for the type pistol used at Lake Berryessa.

top: The Browning High Power Below: Colt 45 1911A1 used by the U.S. Armed Forces

Zodiac's knife was also described as having white surgical type tape around the handle. I guess many of them did that. Even Donald Lee Bujok?

Below: Confiscated homemade knives and weapons from Deer Lodge Prison.

caresut wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

Kevin R. Brooks

Do you have any proof that Bujok spent time in "the hole"? You post a photo from the wiki page on montana state prison but show nothing
to show Bujok spent any time there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_State_Prison
Very misleading, imo, as life in Deer Lodge during the 60s seemed ok compared to other prisons.

I know for certain he spent time in what they call maximum security and the parolee's did speak to reporters of being put in the hole as one of their chief complaints as I posted earlier. However, I doubt seriously that you'd get the guards or anyone else for that matter to admit of any kind of deviation from policy. The hole was supposed to be a discipline they were not supposed to use anymore. See Ed Edwards book!

AK Wilks wrote:

tahoe27 wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:

And how does an ex felon cop killer on parole buy a gun?

Another ex-con.

So, given one day for travel, in two days a newly released prisoner finds a criminal to buy a gun from, in Montana? Maybe.

Where does he get the MONEY to buy a good working car and a gun?

Montana..... Everyone had guns.... I'm sure he may have even had some left to him by his father Frank. Yes, a convicted felon and a sociopath may break the rules. Sociopaths are great at appearing normal and trying to blend in thus Bujok's conservative writing to the newspapers. He was close to no one! As I said before and I have worked several cases involving children with severe psychosis; one of the most common indicators of severe psychosis is solitude. What I am suggesting is the gun collection was already in his family or he kept them hid his self. He owned a home on 3 mine road with no plumbing. His family was very poor and still is…..

Kevin B wrote:

Zodiac's knife was also described as having white surgical type tape around the handle. I guess many of them did that. Even Donald Lee Bujok?

That's an interesting thought, in general terms. Some of those knives look to be wrapped in electrical or masking tape. Surgical tape might be an easier tape to get in prison. Might just be a matter of what they could get their hand on.

Why was Z's knife handle wrapped? Were the rivets loose or did he just want some extra grip (which gloves alone would have provided)? Did he seek out surgical tape (if in fact, that's what it was), did he just have some in a first aid kit in his car or medicine cabinet, or was it available in his everyday job/life?

Anyway, I have the LB knife.....if you believe Harry Martin...

morf13 wrote:

A little more on Bujok...a relative of his told me that growing up, he didnt have the best home life. His Father was a gambler and was always out of the house gambling. His mother escaped into her own world of magazines and soaps. Donald was left to himself pretty much. The house they grew up in was dirty & delapodated, and wasnt in a real nice section of town. (we previously know he lived in a mining village house). School wasnt great for Don either, and he only made it thru 9th grade. When I asked this relative of Don's who went to school with him if Don had any interest in movies,plays, etc, the relative didnt know because after school, Don would go home and vanish. He never knew what Don was up to. He also said that in all of the years he knew Don, he never once saw him with a gun. He also felt that Don was "not all that bright". The last time this relative saw Don was in the 1950's. After Don went to prison, he never really had much contact with him. This relative did put me in touch with 2 closer relatives of Don who may be able to shed more light on Don Bujok. One of these relatives was a newspaper reporter in the Roundup area.

Donald Bujok was very bright! If you did not get to know him you may assume that he was not. I have heard that before from a few others however he was very well read and in fact he read a lot! His letters don't point to a stupid person to me. Do they to you? Bryan Hartnell thought the same thing at first. However I believe that people have made him out to be smarter than he was as I think he was very lucky as well!

So you know prisoners use kites, codes and tattoos to communicate who they are and what they have seen or done or love! Remember Grandpa worked as a prison guard.... Also, Don Bujok was also sent to the Presidio in San Francisco (Letterman) when he had his breakdown while serving at Fort Ord in 1954. They sent the more severe problems there. From there he was discharged and sent home.

By the way, the tattoos on Dryman's fingers "the stars" I think mean doing time.....

Kevin B.

Could be nautical as well but it could also be nothing. Dryman, loved to draw! He completely refurbished a beautiful hand drawn fire wagon pin stripes and all. It is still there and beautiful! The guy is one talented artist!

Kevin B wrote:

..

By the way, the tattoos on Dryman's fingers "the stars" I think mean doing time.....

Kevin B.

The stars came later. He tried to cover up previous tattoos.

-Nin

Nin wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

..

By the way, the tattoos on Dryman's fingers "the stars" I think mean doing time.....

Kevin B.

The stars came later. He tried to cover up previous tattoos.

-Nin

thanks Nin!!!

Nin wrote:

DON Quixote .. DON Bujok

I'd sure like you on my team.... Oh well maybe next season!

How about some evidence????

Every time someone calls you out on handwriting, prints, DNA, Timeline, motive, finances...

Maybe a reunion gig, instead?



Kevin is the one with the "Kentucky Waterfall" and the double breasted jacket, no?

Nin,

My information comes straight from the ex-Deputy Wardens mouth. Things were different back then. They didn't put the heavy restrictions that they do today on parolee’s. It was check in once a month! My partner and friend Julia Brewer from the Montana Deer Lodge Prison Museum will tell you the same. She is the one that dug through piles of information and knows everything about that prison and is a lot like Zam; a beautiful soul!

As I wrote before Bujok procured a job before he left prison as a salesman for a chemical company. Yes, some of the roads may have been snowy or maybe not. I looked at a few papers and there was nothing that showed there were severe weather problems on those dates in the states he would have traveled. However, I didn’t look that close and could be wrong. California was cold but no big snow storms that I saw. You could check and maybe find a blizzard somewhere in there but people do travel when it snows. And contrary to some people’s belief, cars were pretty darn easy to work on yourself back then and pretty dependable. Hell, I had a 69 Plymouth Valiant (slant 6) that just wouldn’t die!

Remember, this man was very disturbed and he told you why he killed. He was collecting "slaves for his afterlife." I believe it as simple as that! I believe he also may have been angry with his mother just as Ed Edwards wrote in his book for bringing him into a loveless situation. Maybe these men see these woman in lover’s lanes creating another them….. Bujok was very opinionated as what the world should be. Again, I believe he covered his Zodiac life by trying to create a very upstanding Dudley Do Right kind of image in Round-up while filling his need to let his rage explode while in California…. This is just speculation. By the way I may just give up Bujok as I found a new one! Each fits the profile too! I just can't decide if I should choose Tony, Tom, Posh or Kit? Below my beautiful wife Bernice and Jenda Derringer also Rick Derringer, Jenda Derringer and Brian Johnson of ACDC fame with wife! Good people all of them!

IBF

I edited your post, because you went off into personal attacks, sarcasm and ridicule.

Kevin, I have no idea if you are in that picture IBF posted, but if you object to that picture, let me or another mod know and we will remove it.

IBF, you can call for Kevin to post the handwriting, I concur with you, lets see it. But there is a NICE way to do things. Not with personal attacks and sarcasm, we don't do that here.