"ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

Zero wrote:

Yeah, I was just thinking about that.

Assuming Bates was a Zodiac crime and assuming he would have been ZODE's age that would make him around 19-21 in 1966, right? About the right age to be taking community college classes.

Later our guy goes up north to the San Francisco area for some reason. He's a little bit older and a little bit wiser and feeling the sting of loserdom in his early 20's and commits the Zodiac killings.

It would also line up the descriptions of some of the Zodiac witnesses. Hartnell thought Z was in his 20's, the kids at PH said 25-30 I think (kids think anyone over 18 is ancient), Nancy Slover said he sounded young.

All this would also explain why Z was able escape detection. He was a bit younger and from a different area than most people thought.

It seems rational to me.

I wish there was a computer program that could cross-reference who lived in Vallejo in 1969, and see which ones lived in Riverside or San Bernardino in 66-67. I dont think that would be a super long list, and I would love to see the names on that list. Until that computer program comes out, I guess we will all plu away on ANCESTRY.com

morf13 wrote:

StitchMallone wrote:

Forget we know anything about Zode and still think anyone who played KOKO in that area that fits the time frame is worth looking into. Nice find!

I recall reading someplace, that every person in a theater company or cast, in the bay area involved in any Mikado plays, were wondering if Z could be one of their own. Who knows, maybe this guy was brought up as a suspect by somebody, and police checked him and ruled him out.

Yep from the yellow book and LE was looking into it. Surprisingly LE missed this guy. Morf you read my mind and was going to mention this early.

Nachtsider wrote:

Our boy was born in 1946. He was (parents died in '96 and '07) an only child, born to a strongly Catholic family.

Morf, if you are still in contact with "ZODE" can you ask him if he attended Cheri's church (St. Catherine's")?

Rembrandt wrote:

Nachtsider wrote:

Our boy was born in 1946. He was (parents died in '96 and '07) an only child, born to a strongly Catholic family.

Morf, if you are still in contact with "ZODE" can you ask him if he attended Cheri's church (St. Catherine's")?

Sure, I can do that....by the way, good to hear from you Rembrandt.

Zero wrote:

I'd be surprised if Z borrowed the Zodiac name and "this is the Zodiac speaking" line on purpose. It does seem like the kind of thing that you might hear once or twice and it would creep into your subconscious, though. Like some kids talking about a friend of a friend or that kind of thing. It could certainly happen in the same town among the same age group.

These are all very tenuous connections, but worth looking into, IMO.

Another scenario: the killer puts a cross hair symbol at the bottom of three messages and figues he's given away too much about his identity. So, to fix this problem, he thinks of other potential meanings for the symbol. A Zodaic watch would easily come to mind. So he calls himself the Zodiac. So why "This is the Zodiac speaking"? Because he's a shortwave radio enthusiast. How else to explain the use of the phrase, This is the ... Speaking? The moniker, Zodiac, was motivated by the need for a solution to a serious problem.

rand wrote:

Zero wrote:

I'd be surprised if Z borrowed the Zodiac name and "this is the Zodiac speaking" line on purpose. It does seem like the kind of thing that you might hear once or twice and it would creep into your subconscious, though. Like some kids talking about a friend of a friend or that kind of thing. It could certainly happen in the same town among the same age group.

These are all very tenuous connections, but worth looking into, IMO.

Another scenario: the killer puts a cross hair symbol at the bottom of three messages and figues he's given away too much about his identity. So, to fix this problem, he thinks of other potential meanings for the symbol. A Zodaic watch would easily come to mind. So he calls himself the Zodiac. So why "This is the Zodiac speaking"? Because he's a shortwave radio enthusiast. How else to explain the use of the phrase, This is the ... Speaking? The moniker, Zodiac, was motivated by the need for a solution to a serious problem.

The short wave radio theory is not bad. Recently, in another thread, I pointed out that the guy named Joe Mahar from Albany NY, that was in Darlene's address book, had a short wave radio license.

morf13 wrote:

Rembrandt wrote:

Nachtsider wrote:

Our boy was born in 1946. He was (parents died in '96 and '07) an only child, born to a strongly Catholic family.

Morf, if you are still in contact with "ZODE" can you ask him if he attended Cheri's church (St. Catherine's")?

Sure, I can do that....by the way, good to hear from you Rembrandt.

Thanks Morf

Rembrandt wrote:

Nachtsider wrote:

Our boy was born in 1946. He was (parents died in '96 and '07) an only child, born to a strongly Catholic family.

Morf, if you are still in contact with "ZODE" can you ask him if he attended Cheri's church (St. Catherine's")?

Talked to ZODE today, and he went to St Francis in Riverside up until about 1961, then he moved to San Bernardino, and went to a church there. I really am leaning towards this guy not being involved in any way with the Zodiac case, but every time I talk to him, he mentions Melvin Belli again. I still think it is possible that the Zodiac was firends or schoolmates with ZODE, and may have used his Zodiac character when he started killing in the SF area.

I received a PM this afternoon from a member, who for personal reasons, wanted to remain anonymous, but wanted me to post any possible update on ZODE, as well as my opinion on him as a suspect. I am happy to do so.

I also would first like to point out that one of our members, KATANA, was very helpful in the ZODE research and was able to give us all first hand information and accounts of ZODE since he was a fellow student of Zode. Sadly, KATANA has not posted here in quite a while. I have reached out to him via email multiple times in the last few months, but have not heard back from him. He had some health issues, and I hope he is okay.

What follows is based on my honest opinion, and my personal interactions with ZODE. I am not a Detective or profiler:

I will get right to the point...Zode is what most of us here would consider 'odd'. He admittedly has few friends, and has never had a date with a girl. He is certainly not an outgoing person from what I gather. My own personal belief is that he was raised a certain way by his parents, who were immigrants if I recall correctly. I think he was very close with them as an only child and that caused him to be shy or timid around schoolmates, etc.
He still lives in his parents' home (they have both passed away). He attempted to go to college, but didnt make it too far, and has had some various odds & ends jobs. If he lived in Vallejo during the Zodiac murders, I think people would have had great interest in him as a Z suspect. But being 'different' or 'odd' does not make you a serial killer.

A couple things to touch on right away,he DOES confirm, and does NOT deny calling himself Zodiac in the years before the Zodiac murders. He also has a great interest in Melvin Belli.

He has been very forthright with me, and as far as I can tell, honest. We have spoken several times over a period of hours. He can talk at great length and go on and on. Personally, I think he doesnt have anybody to talk to, so when he gets the chance, he goes on and on, certainly no crime.

He has supplied me with photos, and writing samples, and where most people would tell somebody to get lost, he was willing to help in clearing his name as a Z suspect.

He states that he has NEVER been to Vallejo, and only been to San Fran a couple times. He also states he never knew or met Cheri Jo Bates, or Kathleen Johns (although he lived very close to Johns). Also, he did not remember Patricia Hautz, despite the fact they were in the same high school class. That is believable since that class graduated like 1000 seniors that year.

He coems across to me as a lonely, perhaps odd, BUT nice person. I do not think he was Zodiac, and personally I dont think he is a danger to anybody. He was a bit evasive on a couple issues or details, but that may be due to the fact the questions pertained to stuff that happened 40 years ago. I still find his interest in Belli fascinating, but it may be a coincidence.

I really in my mind DO NOT consider him a suspect any longer, and unless somebody presented something solid placing him Vallejo, or connecting him to the crimes, I will consider to discount him as being Zodiac.

I DO THINK it is possible that Zodiac, whomever he was, knew ZODE or was a fellow classmate. He may have remembered Zode's persona or character, and used it as his own when he became the Zodiac years later.

A couple things that can not be forgotten- Zode lived in Riverside in Junior High. He then moved to San Bernardino where he went to High school, and still lives today. Compare that to clues in the Zodiac case, Cecilia S was attending school in Riverside. Kathleen Johns was driving up towards northern CA from San Bernardino, when she was allegedly attacked by someone driving up from behind her from the same direction. Zodiac is connected to Cheri Bates, who was about the same age as Zode, and from the same general area, although no further connection is known. Lastly, he went to school with Patricia Hautz, who's letter about Cheri's death has been in the limelight for a long time.

If Zodiac is ever identified and he winds up being a friend, classmate or acquaintance of Zode, I will not be surprised. But I would be shocked if Zode was involved.

Thanks for the update on Zode Morf and also hope Katana is okay.

Here is what is pretty obvious...Zodiac had a keen interest in Melvin Belli, for whatever reason. I think it may be because Belli commanded alot of attention, and Zodiac craved that. Then again, there could be some other possibilities too.

You may recall further back on this thread, that according to my interview with 'zode', he felt that his law school instructor, Charles Ashman, was also a publicity speaker, and drew Belli to Riverside by using 'Zode' as 'bait' so to speak. Zode thinks that Ashman called his old buddy Belli and said something like "hey, I know the zodiac has contacted you, well we have a guy in my school that might be him, come down and see for yourself". According to Graysmith, Belli was there specifically to draw a reaction from Zode, and that there were undercover police in the classroom. According to Zode, he says it did NOT go down like that, but admits that he was there and he did shake Belli's hand. What the truth is, I dont know, but I lean towards Zode's side of the story being true, or maybe some combination of the two stories being true. To believe Graysmith, you have to believe that the cops, rather than just questioning Zode, allowed Belli to come down and confront him to get a reaction. Not so sure i believe that was the case. Zode DOES have an interest in Belli (bringing up his name several times to me in conversation), but I have to stress, that I am absolutely convinced that Zode was NOT zodiac. Zode has never denied calling himself 'Zodiac', admitting he used that name years before the first Zodiac murders. But I still think it's entirely possible that Zodiac, whomever he was, knew Zode, and stole his Zodiac name for himself later when he committed the Zodiac murders. There continues to be lots of connections between Riverside, San Bernardino, and the Zodiac murders. I think there may be something that we are missing and cant put our fingers on. We have the Bates case in Riverside, we have the 'shoe salesman' from San Bernardino who supposedly took out future Z victim Cecelia Shepard, on a date(s), and the fact that she was transferring from school in Riverside. We have Melvin Belli, a person who very much interested Zodiac, poking around down in Riverside. We also have the Kathleen Johns case. She lived less than a mile from 'Zode' in San Bernardino,and was driving up from San Bernardino towards the bay area, when her attacker, coming behind her from the same direction, pulled her over.
Something is there in the Riverside/San Bernardino area that is a clue to Zidac's ID, and I bet that this will be proven IF Zodiac's ID is ever discovered.


I didnt mean to get off track, but I wanted to post this 1971 article that Zode sent to me about the relationship between Belli & Ashman. Pretty interesting stuff.
I think there may be another page, I will have to find.

I think Zodiac's interest in Belli stems from phony Z and Napa mental patient Eric Weil calling the Dunbar show and wanting to speak to F L Bailey, and then to Belli when he was told Bailey wasn't around (if I have all the facts right). The real Z, noting this, decided to write to Belli, either in earnest or as a tease.

I think Belli would chase any opportunity that involved publicity, no matter where it took him.

I agree that Zode would have to have incredibly stupid, having gone by Zodiac, to use it again on a death penalty offense crime, and that someone else using it based on him is within the realm of possibility, and that a Z from that area is also quite possible.

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

morf13 wrote:

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

Sounds interesting, If you would like me to check him, please email me his name.

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

Sounds interesting, If you would like me to check him, please email me his name.

Sure will, check you PM Foreigner.

morf13 wrote:

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

Sounds interesting, If you would like me to check him, please email me his name.

Sure will, check you PM Foreigner.

Wow, it only took Foreigner a couple hours to find some real cool stuff about this guy. Thanks Foreigner, I will take a closer look

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

Sounds interesting, If you would like me to check him, please email me his name.

Sure will, check you PM Foreigner.

Wow, it only took Foreigner a couple hours to find some real cool stuff about this guy. Thanks Foreigner, I will take a closer look

Foreigner,not sure if you checked,but this guy got remarried on December 20 in Riverside. I think he got married to his first wife a couple months before the Bates murder.

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

Sounds interesting, If you would like me to check him, please email me his name.

Sure will, check you PM Foreigner.

Wow, it only took Foreigner a couple hours to find some real cool stuff about this guy. Thanks Foreigner, I will take a closer look

Foreigner,not sure if you checked,but this guy got remarried on December 20 in Riverside. I think he got married to his first wife a couple months before the Bates murder.

Yes i found that, remarried on the 13th year anniversery of the Dec 20, 1968 murder of Jensen/Faraday.
But he had a child Sept 24, 1969, in San Bernadino, which is 3 days prior to the Lake Berryessa murder, hmmm, but maybe men back then wasn't necessarely around when they had a baby, like they do today?

Anyway, this guy is IMO a VERY good match to the October 11, 1969 Zodiac sketch (the improved/second one)
(This guy is actually the absolut best match I have ever seen, except for my own suspect )
But I haven´t seen any pictures of him from "back then" yet, so he might turn out not be this very good match, we´ll see.

He list his hight, in two different dating profiles as:

Height: 5'8 - 5'11
Height: 5' 8"

And: Body type: Stocky

He was born in 1947, so he was only 22 in 1969, (a bit too young if you ask me)

List himself as: retired carpenter

In dating profiles he seek young "Submissive" "Obedient" woman, and he is now in a relationship with a young woman from Africa.

He list his belifs as: spiritual, also student of Scientology, and he practice yoga

List himself as: Honerable Discharge (vietnam Army) , Citrus Belt League -Pacific High San Bernardino CA) Wrestling Champ 1964-1965.

He is a very bad speller.

He seem to have had an address in Benicia in 1970, but was from San Bernardino, his parents address in phone-list 1964 &1970 is very close to both "Zode" and Patricia Hautz. (aprox 1 mile)

His son (born in Sept 1969) have several adresses in Vallejo.

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

As I said previously, I think it is possible that a person who knew 'Zode' in San Bernardino could have gone on to steal Zode's persona for himself, calling himself ZODIAC. I found a guy,last name starts with Z, that graduated with 'Zode' in San Bernardino, and then lived in Vallejo. I am going to check him out a bit more to see what I can find on him. I just talked to 'Zode', but he did not seem to remember this individual.

Sounds interesting, If you would like me to check him, please email me his name.

Sure will, check you PM Foreigner.

Wow, it only took Foreigner a couple hours to find some real cool stuff about this guy. Thanks Foreigner, I will take a closer look

Foreigner,not sure if you checked,but this guy got remarried on December 20 in Riverside. I think he got married to his first wife a couple months before the Bates murder.

Yes i found that, remarried on the 13th year anniversery of the Dec 20, 1968 murder of Jensen/Faraday.
But he had a child Sept 24, 1969, in San Bernadino, which is 3 days prior to the Lake Berryessa murder, hmmm, but maybe men back then wasn't necessarely around when they had a baby, like they do today?

Anyway, this guy is IMO a VERY good match to the October 11, 1969 Zodiac sketch (the improved/second one)
(This guy is actually the absolut best match I have ever seen, except for my own suspect )
But I haven´t seen any pictures of him from "back then" yet, so he might turn out not be this very good match, we´ll see.

He list his hight, in two different dating profiles as:

Height: 5'8 - 5'11
Height: 5' 8"

And: Body type: Stocky

He was born in 1947, so he was only 22 in 1969, (a bit too young if you ask me)

List himself as: retired carpenter

In dating profiles he seek young "Submissive" "Obedient" woman, and he is now in a relationship with a young woman from Africa.

He list his belifs as: spiritual, also student of Scientology, and he practice yoga

List himself as: Honerable Discharge (vietnam Army) , Citrus Belt League -Pacific High San Bernardino CA) Wrestling Champ 1964-1965.

He is a very bad speller.

He seem to have had an address in Benicia in 1970, but was from San Bernardino, his parents address in phone-list 1964 &1970 is very close to both "Zode" and Patricia Hautz. (aprox 1 mile)

His son (born in Sept 1969) have several adresses in Vallejo.

This guy is surely a bad speller. I always thought Z spelled bad on purpose,but this guy may just be a bad speller,or like me sometimes,he just has alot of typing errors. He does have an unusual sexual interest in younger( but of legal age)women. Twice divorced,and wanting to dat emuch younger women(even ones in another country)may indicate he can not have successful relationships with a woman his own age. I would love to know how a profiler would compare this guy's sexual interests to Zodiac's.

He does have some similarity to the z sketch,but I havent seen him with glasses on(but I think Foreigner said he does wear them sometimes). This guy may merit a thread of his own in the SUSPECTS section

Foreigner made this side by side photo comparison of Zodiac, and this fellow student of Zode's. Foreigner felt that the facial lines, spacing, and structure, lined up very well. The eyes of this man have been whited out to protect his Identity, so you can't get the full effect, but his eyes have similar shape and size when compared to the Z sketch. Of course, this photo is fairly recent, it's NOT from 1969.


EDIT: Hey Foreigner, if you look at his facebook page, look closely at the photo of the pineapple...this guy is exposing his Penis. This guy is really twisted.

I went back and looked closer, and holy s... you are right ugh!!!

And what is that about , this odd "stilleben" he arranged with his penis???
A pineaple
An Apple
A bottle of boose (do you know what kind of boos/lable)
A lightblue piece of cloth (with somthing under it?)
A bottle of red vine (behind the cloth)
And his penis

The arranged "stilleben" picture is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO odd and twisted.
And beside his obvious exstreamly twizted mind, I mean his girlfriend (who is also FB friend with this guy) is facebook friend with this guys daughter, so he would know it his own daughter easily could see this picture!!!

I´m thinking, could this sick "stilleben" be some kind of riddle?

Theforeigner wrote:

I went back and looked closer, and holy s... you are right ugh!!!

And what is that about , this odd "stilleben" he arranged with his penis???
A pineaple
An Apple
A bottle of boose (do you know what kind of boos/lable)
A lightblue piece of cloth (with somthing under it?)
A bottle of red vine (behind the cloth)
And his penis

The arranged "stilleben" picture is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO odd and twisted.
And beside his obvious exstreamly twizted mind, I mean his girlfriend (who is also FB friend with this guy) is facebook friend with this guys daughter, so he would know it his own daughter easily could see this picture!!!

I´m thinking, could this sick "stilleben" be some kind of riddle?

I cant see the label on the bottle. It is such an odd photo. A nice setting at the table, peaceful, fruit, a bottle of alcohol, and his penis. Very disturbing, imo. Under the fruit, on the purple paper, appears to possibly be writing. Maybe the photo can be enhanced?

here is the "stilleben" with the P whited out.



Anyone have an idea why this guy posted somthing like this?
Could it be some kind of riddle?



And here is an image he used as an big avatar (same size as posted here) in on one of his many dating sites, made me think of the halloween card:

Here is a bigger version.
the "lightbleu cloth" insted seem to be a paperbag?

bentley wrote:

I have PMed his recent handwriting and photo to Morf to post if he wants to, the guy is still around.

Here is where he lived (and still does I believe) in relation to some Z victims. His location is marked PHSZ for Pacific High School Zodiac. The HAUTZ marker is for the Mary Patricia Hautz (CJB follow up letter), which is about a block away from him.

Hi bently

Could you please post or PM me the addresses you used for this above map?
And if you (or anyone else) have any other addresses in this area connected, or possibly connected, to the Zodiac case, please PM me their names and addresses.
I ask because I just relaized that my POI had a close relative living ca 1 mile from Zode and Hautz, and ca 2.5 miles from Kathleen Johns .

Thanks in advance:)