Troy Houghton: The Minuteman

Funny you should ask. I just wrote earlier today to someone who has collected hundreds of MM FBI files about this. I'll let you know what he says.

Here's all I've got:




This may be his printed handwriting, but I don't know for sure (the random hole punches are interesting as well).

rand,
CM had mentioned the KKK many times- CM BD both were Southerners too.He told Tex Watson to 'hang the victims like a KKK thing.'He and BD went to Tate home around 3:30 AM to do that,but decided to leave.
BD 'left some glasses behind' as a "fake clue" according to Susan Atkins.It did throw the police off who were trying to locate the owner thinking it was the killer.

See there's your take on the dragon,etc.Good. Did TH speak about ,write,and draw pictures of dragons,and include them in his songs? This makes it more personal than a small flag over a tavern.

CM wrote one song and "slumbering dragons "is mentioned.

Just asking.One thing about computers it's hard to express in some ways.Can't see facial expressions so don't take this wrong.

Time? Yes,that was big in the Process and Scientology and both men were into those two cults.CM would constantly refer to time in his teachings.'It's Time' or 'It's time for Helter Skelter' (August '69),"I am beyond time."When BD surrendered he said 'it's about time.'They looked at time in a different way or manner in those cults.It was philosophical.
"Wheels of circles and cirlces of time...Now is the time to come to now."CM

As to buttons you got me on that one.Z said to wear his button he never said he wore one! Lots of people wore buttons in the 60's.Can't get them all.

Did TH have a the cross/circle as Z wrote it out on his wrist for example? Did he write it on stamps and on other items as did CM? See my site for photos. It was in a 60's Process magazine which is posted on my site! BD/CM were very much into that cult.In the new book on CM CM signs his name and there is a cross/circle. A bulls eye symbol ,which is trite or mundane compared to Z's extened cross bar as with the Neos,white power groups,etc.The BE is not the same as Z's symbol.

Was TH into Gilbert and Sullivan?The author of the new CM book sent me and email about a very recent phone conversation he had with CM and asked CM if he knew about G&S,etc.,in which CM acknowledged G&S,and said he was familair with their work,but as the author writes CM 'changed the subject and went on into something else.'

CM was in the drama club at McNeil Island in the early 60's and his club did the Mikado.I got this from CM's old counselor that was there! He is now retired.So glad I got to him before that event!

So it can be tit for tat.You have a great abundance of paper on your guy and his group so naturally you will find links- real or not- they are there.I have to scrape for years just to confirm something as I don't have piles of docs to draw from as you do.It took me several years just to comfirm BD was in LT and even worked there and with a fake driver's license.
It came out in a DOC or parole hearing for the first time.He admitted living in Lake Tahoe.So as I said in a previous post the more 'paper-docs- you have the more info for possible links comes up!
In that report he said he was an NRA member liked to shoot and considered himself a fairly good shot.He said he owned a .9MM (he purchased it under a fake name July '69-again info!) that 'looked like a .45.'I did think of BH and later the 9MM at PH.

Letter from BD's sister more paper! She says that Bruce's father used to kick Bruce with his "engineering boots."Fouke saw that Z wroe these same kind of boots!BD went back July '68 to get some of his fther;s things and then came back to CA.Now,i have to find out if he brought those boots back.Welders would wear them and BD was a welder/painter/pipelfitter/road surveyer,etc., they wore them too.

BD/CM(they lived on Bath St. a short distance from Lass' work place and her apartment! was in SB,off/on when Donna Lass was there.See my site.I finally was able to get that info from Donna's sister as to her time line and put it together with scraps of info,etc.If that was a pop suspect link it would be shot up to high heaven.So don't feel left out as to having unpopluar suspect!!!

Here's some information about Houghton that I've just received. What's especially new to me is that Houghton graduated from USC with a degree in journalism.

Minutemen California Coordinator until sex offense convictions revealed.
1950 – arrested on suspicion of delinquency and burglary
1952 – suspicion of grand theft and burglary
other arrests in 1953-1954, 1957 for grand theft, burglary, and traffic warrants. He served 3 jail terms.
1956 – convicted of indecent exposure and vagrancy and received 60 day jail sentence and 3 yrs probation
USC graduate in journalism [Z's letters to editors, manipulation of the press, etc.]


I'm going to post several accounts of Troy's supposed murder. Here's one I just obtained; it's an email from a former Minuteman. Note how he says DePugh claims to have murdered other coordinators (which I already knew), but none can be identified. So why believe him when he says he murdered Houghton? Why would DePugh admit to murdering TH if he, in fact, DID murder him? Now if DePugh didn't murder TH, then there is a good reason to claim that he did: to deter those whom he feared might betray him. The reason DePugh spread this rumor is because DePugh was terrified that he would be betrayed, and he needed to deter these people (The assassination of George Rockwell really spooked DePugh.) Moreover, DePugh was afraid that TH would be subpoened to testify against him. Moreover still, TH's latest sex offense (in January 1967) was the last straw: TH was poison as a public figure in the MM organization, which had gone political with the Patriot Party. So, as DePugh claimed, he was dividing the MM into two groups: (1) those with spotless records that could serve in the political wing of the MM, and (2) those with less than spotless records who would serve in the underground army. TH was more than happy to go underground to escape his mountain of legal debts and pending imprisonment. The bargain was struck: DePugh would claim he murdered Houghton and he would spread the rumour to deter betrayers and prevent the government from subpoening TH to testify against him.

Here is the latest account of Houghton's murder from the former MM:

Troy I am certain is dead and has been so since sometime in 1967. DePugh once mentioned it to me. He felt Troy was going to turn government witness against him. He lured Troy off to some out of the way place on some excuse and then put a gun on him and interrogated him at gun point. What bothered DePugh was that Troy never admitted to any betrayal, but instead stood his ground and maintained his innocence to DePugh. I think DePugh was at a loss as to if he had done the right thing or not as a result. At any rate he was shot in the back of the head and buried somewhere. That is as I recall hearing about it. I never met Troy personally myself. I only knew of him by way of others. DePugh later (when he was first underground ) issued a letter to the organization stating that several state co-ordinators had been executed. Who else, I have no knowledge of (if any).

It was more or less a warning to others to maintain loyalty to him and the organization. DePugh was not a paper tiger. He was for real. Generally he is epitomized as a soft sell conservative. He was more like a right-wing Lenin. Someone you would not want to get on the wrong side of or turn your back to. He was a very dangerous individual who played for keeps. DePugh tried to kill me at one point after i deserted him while underground. He came within a hairs breath of accomplishing it. Just a twist of fate and some very quick moves on my behalf prevented it. He later lied to the underground members that he had killed me and his son, which was for effect on them i suppose, but completely untrue. Jime Moore's book "Very Special Agents " mention's Ray Barnes, who was underground as having been done away with also. I liked Ray Barnes probably more then anyone else that was underground with us. He is epitomized as a contankerous old koot which he was not. He was a very sincere,sentimental man with lots of skills. A veritible mountain man of the old school. Ray was a living piece of Americana. I feared something had happened to him when the trail of DePugh was occurring because for some reason mention of him was never made to my knowledge.

So thats about the story as i know and heard it.

Compare this account with the one that Houghton's lawyer gave based on Mary Tollerton's eyewitness account (the two stories are entirely inconsistent):



Here's story number 3, told to Harry Jones, Jr. at the time:

Please bear with me while I give five people fake names and identify only DePugh and
Dennis Mower, who was once Houghton’s sidekick in California MM matters. Those with fake
names may or may not still be alive and don’t, I’m sure, want to talk about this now. If it
becomes important to you, I’ll give you the names. For now, bear with me about:

AA - A high-ranking assitant to DePugh who may still be alive and, I am told, still embraces
some of DePugh’s nutty ideas.

BB - A lesser Minutemen helper who was with DePugh only a few months in 1967, living at the
MM headquarters in Indpendence.

CC - BB’s wife, who also lived at the headquarters a few months.

DD - A good looking Mmen female groupie who worked at MM headquarters in Indpendence.
And apparently slept around quite a bit.

EE - A creepy littlle guy who suddenly showed up on my doorstep in 1967 with all sorts of
“information” about DePugh and the Mmen. Some of his data proved solid. He also informed
for the FBI. And he claimed to have bedded down with DD often enough for valuable pillow talk
from her about Mmen intrigues.

I mention DePugh and Mower by name because DePugh is now dead and can’t sue me for calling
him a murder suspect, and Moyer does not stand accused of anything in this narrative.

Now for the story:

Houghton disappeared in May, 1967, only a few days after I had interviewed him for four hours
in a Springfield, Mo., hotel and restaurant. The results of that interview are in the book and I
have no notes from it, nor do I remember any details that are not already included in the book.
My overall impression was that Houghton was a very secretive, immature fellow who loved
intrigue and could not be trusted for a straight answer about anything. He came across as a true
believer, a political fanatic, however, rather than someone who would serial kill a bunch of
women unless the women were “Commies,” of course.

The first I learned of the alleged murder of Houghton was when EE rolled into town from a
Mmen training session in the Colorado wilderness. He had hooked up with the sexy DD in
Colorado; they had driven home together and he had slept with her with some frequency. He then
quoted her as telling the following: While working at MM headquarters in Independence, she had
been aware that Troy Houghton was being held in chains in the basement and questioned
repeatedly by DePugh and AA. They suspected Troy of being either a federal law enforcement
informant or, better yet, a CIA agent. (Troy had told me once that he had worked for the CIA
during a Guatemala uprising a few years earlier — a story I doubted at the time).

After two days, DD saw DePugh, AA and BB leading Hougthon from the cellar and stuffed, still
alive, into the trunk of their car. Later she was told by CC (BB’s wife) that DePugh, AA and BB
had stopped somewhere near Warsaw, Mo., where Houghton was told they wanted to question
him while under the influence of sodium pentethol (sp? a truth drug). He took a pill, thinking
that’s what it was, but it turned out to be poison and he was soon dead. They then buried him
somewhere in the nearby wilderness.

I tried to contact DD but she would not talk with me. I tried to question BB and CC, and was
stonewalled again. Then BB and CC suddenly left town with their baby, and without notifying
DePugh in advance.

I told a friendly FBI agent about this and he seemed to take it seriously. Later he told that BB and
CC had been located and interrogated. He said — get this – that BB even led them to a spot near
Warsaw where he said Houghton’s body was buried. They dug, but found nothing. And that was
that. Bettie asked for my help in finding Troy in August and that’s the last I heard of him.

As for Mower, he called me from California one day and told me essentially the same story that
EE had related to me. How did he know? DD pillow talk. DD had told both Moyer and EE the
same story, and they both had told me.

I know who AA-EE are. So when I told Harry that Nedra was TH's half sister and Lester was his half brother-in-law, Harry wrote:
"I'm wondering whether Mary Tollerton (whom I identified as EE in an earlier e-mail) deliberately made up the Houghton murder story to aid him in going underground, and whether Lester Moleneaux (BB in my cryptic e-mail) added to this subterfuge by leading the FBI to a grave site that he had fabricated to further help Houghton disappear."
Precisely.

rand,
You have enough material to write a book on the MM then take out a chapter and weave in TH as Z.

You should write a book on the minutemen, Rand.

Also should contact police with what you have on TH. You should have taken me up on my offer to introduce you to my law enforcement and Zodiac case contacts. You didn't.

But I will tell you, that new material you posted, it greatly increases my thought that TH was murdered. You have several people saying he was murdered, witness saying screams in the basement and DePugh telling people he killed TH. And a strong motive - he was an embarassment to the MM and a threat to squeal.

You can speculate about a fake murder and an escape to go underground, but there is no evidence to really back that up. And TH appears to be a bungler as a criminal who was caught many many times for all sorts of minor and medium stuff, yet he never gets caught for anything in 40 years? Never gets caught for the Z stuff?

This evidence is pretty strong that TH was murdered IMO.

But we don't know that for sure. And you have done a great job putting together evidence against TH. My suggestion remains to contact authorities and see what can be done to prove or disprove your thesis.

I entirely disagree with your conclusion, of course. You've got detailed stories that don't match. How can they all be true? One says he was lured to a place on a false pretense and shot in the head. Another says he was tied up in the basement and screaming before taken to a field and killed. Another says he was given a truth serum but it turned out to be cyanide (accidental death). Who's lying? Who's telling the truth?
In my view, it's clear that DePugh set the whole thing up. Why would you murder someone to stop them from squelling and TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT?!! Now you'd be up for murder charges. No way. DePugh wanted his people to believe TH was murdered. He also wanted the FBI to think that TH was murdered. Then TH couldn't be subpoened. But if you're going to murder someone to keep them quiet, you don't go publically telling everyone about it. DePugh told these stories at MM organization meetings and orientations. He said he murdered several coordinators, but no one can figure out who he was talking about. You can't honestly believe he murdered TH and told everyone, can you?
I know much more about this story than I've told. Here's something more to consider: TH's car was found on the side of the road after the alleged murder. THis is precisely what happened with another MM in 1963 -- a guy named Harrell, who was being harrassed by the IRS. DePugh claimed the gov't murdered him and his family. The story appeared in the newspapers. Months later, Harrell turned up alive and well, and he went to prison.
So 4 years later, TH is convicted, has another conviction on a sex offense, and voila: his car turns up on the side of the road (supposedly, though the state and place are never announced), and he's claimed to be dead. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I know how the MM operated. This was a hoax all the way. TH was among the most loyal supporters of DePugh and he knew it. In fact, TH was willing to die for DePugh and proved it a year or so earlier in a shootout with the police in MO. No way did DePugh shoot him in the head, or poison him.
And DePugh and the MM should have gotten their stories straight. But they didn't. And when Molyneaux tried fool the FBI with a fake buriel ground, they dug it up and revealed the ruse.
So why do you think, given the evidence, that it's certain that TH was murdered? I don't get it. What do you see that I don't here?

The above makes little sense UNLESS Z were a person presumed dead and rose from the grave, so to speak -- one of society's offenders that went underground and would never be missed.

Just giving my opinion Rand, opinion based on the facts and evidence as I see them.

Take Jimmy Hoffa. There are multiple, multiple stories about how he died, why he died, where he is buried, who killed him. Rumors spread, half truths, theories, misinformation. But the FBI states, and pretty much everyone agrees, he was killed by the mob, probably Anthony "Tony Pro" Provenzano, with the motive to prevent him from getting the Teamsters back and to keep his mouth shut.

As with Troy Houghton, there are dozens of stories and conflicting evidence about how Hoffa was killed and where he was buried. Chances are, a body will never be found for Jimmy Hoffa, and a body will never be found for Troy Houghton. But do we know that they are dead? I say yes. In the case of Hoffa for sure, in the case of Houghton, probably.

As James Woods said about a Hoffa like character he played in the epic gangster flick "Once Upon A Time In America", who vanishes under strange circumstances, about whether we "know" he is dead - "We know, but we don't know. But...we know. We know he ain't coming over for dinner next Tuesday."

In my opinion, Jimmy Hoffa ain't coming over for dinner next Tuesday, and neither is Troy Houghton.

But you have put together great evidence, take it to the authorities, maybe they can find him or settle the case once and for all.

The difference, IMO, between Hoffa and Houghton is that Houghton said, a few weeks before he vanished, that he was going underground with a Little List. So it would be quite coincidental if the reason he vanished was because someone murdered him. Sounds like a great cover story for someone to successfully go deeply underground to me. There was also literature distributed by the MM urging members to go underground and leave their families behind (I've posted that several times here). And there were many good reasons for DePugh to lie about murdering TH. The particular people who murdered Hoffa didn't go around saying, "I murdered Hoffa, and here's how."

Let me begin this post with the statement that, despite the claims of several posters with their own POI, there is no hard evidence that TH didn't turn up after May 1967. Indeed, Bettie took over for Troy as the California coordinater for the MM and even put out her own MM newsletter: The California Patriot. Hardly the type of thing one would do if they believed that the head of the MM had just murdered her husband, right? Here are several accounts of Bettie leading the MM California chapter AFTER TH was supposedly murdered by DePugh:

ITEM #1




ITEM #2


ITEM #3

rand wrote:

Let me begin this post with the statement that, despite the claims of several posters with their own POI, there is no hard evidence that TH didn't turn up after May 1967.

And there is no evidence that he did turn up either! You seem to be hung up on the fact that just because some of us with our "own POI", we must be dismissing your POI. Thats not the case, at least, not in my case. I am dismissing him because he is right there along with BIGFOOT as a suspect...we cant prove he exists, but we cant prove he doesnt, that is basically your logic here.

Rand, unless you find PROOF that TH was alive, I am afraid you will have to wrap this up soon. You have 50+ pages on a guy that nobody can prove was alive, let alone in the bay area in 1969-1975. I am not picking on you, and if you have a legit suspect that you can prove was alive, then you are welcome to post 50 more pages. There are many people on here, myself included, with various suspects that have pages & pages of stuff against their POI's and suspects. The difference between them and you, is that their POI or suspects were at least proven to be alive at the time of the Z murders, You cant prove TH was alive, which brings me to the BIGFOOT argument. 95% of the posts in your TH thread are from you, which proves there is little interest in TH. Since this free forum wil limit how much material we can have here, we cant have another 50 pages on a guy that may not have even been alive. I am sorry, and hope you understand. I am going to give you a chance to make one last post to answer this, and then I am going to lock this thread.

There is no death certificate, and there is not a single official record of any kind that lists the man as dead. Yet you claim I have to PROVE he was alive at the time of the murders. Incredible, simply incredible or you're going to lock me out.
You write: "95% of the posts in your TH thread are from you, which proves there is little interest in TH."
How does that explain the over 7900 views? The views, not the posts, signify interest. Look, Morf, you do whatever you want. I've shown you who the Zodiac is. Believe it or don't believe it. The truth is totally unaffected by what you or I believe.

I've found this out: TH used a SSN that was issued in TN, 410-13-3611. Was it his SSN? I doubt it. The man had more aliases than anyone alive. The perfect candidate to disappear and never be found again.

All I knew about TH when I started was that his behavior and actions were like Z and he was a MM. Given the MM decals that talked about murdering people by gun, by rope, by knife, by poison pen along with the crosshair symbol, I looked into him. And what did I find? He looked just like the description of Z; his background fit Z to a tee, etc. etc., etc.
No other suspect comes close to having all the details that fit Z and explain Z's iconography.
Just one example. Look at this:



Here we have a guy who tampered with cars (CJB, KJ), who shot out the tires of a car (I'll just shoot out the tires of a schoolbus...), and tore out pages of a library book. Just one paragraph description of TH fits so many things about Z. ALL JUST COINCIDENCE, RIGHT MORF? It's all just a coincidence. If one of your major suspects had any of these items, you'd be
Virtuallly everything I've found about TH -- e.g., the articles about him that mention G&S's Mikado -- were found AFTER I began researching him because there was enough there to do so. When you have the right guy, it all falls in to place. If you understood what I've presented here, the depth and breadth of all the facts -- yes, FACTS -- that fit Z to a tee and that could not be ALL COINCIDENCE (as you must believe), then you'd understand how absurd you're being by claiming that TH is BIGFOOT and now telling me that I MUST prove that a man without a death certificate was alive. You're ridiculous, Morf.

rand wrote:

Here we have a guy who tampered with cars (CJB, KJ), who shot out the tires of a car (I'll just shoot out the tires of a schoolbus...), and tore out pages of a library book. Just one paragraph description of TH fits so many things about Z. ALL JUST COINCIDENCE, RIGHT MORF? It's all just a coincidence. If one of your major suspects had any of these items, you'd be
Virtuallly everything I've found about TH -- e.g., the articles about him that mention G&S's Mikado -- were found AFTER I began researching him because there was enough there to do so. When you have the right guy, it all falls in to place. If you understood what I've presented here, the depth and breadth of all the facts -- yes, FACTS -- that fit Z to a tee and that could not be ALL COINCIDENCE (as you must believe), then you'd understand how absurd you're being by claiming that TH is BIGFOOT and now telling me that I MUST prove that a man without a death certificate was alive. You're ridiculous, Morf.

Thanks for your opinion. As I said, the thread will now be locked for the reasons I outlined above, and if you prove he was in the bay area in 1969, let alone upright & breathing, please let me know. One difference between you and I is that I would NOT have a suspect or POI that I couldnt even verify was alive.

Rand said "There is no death certificate" . Well, there is no death certificate for Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Earhart either. Are they alive?

Rand said "and there is not a single official record of any kind that lists the man as dead."

I think it is California law, and the law of most states, that a person "missing" for 7 years can be legally declared dead by the widow/family, if they so wish, for purposes of insurance, end of marriage, etc.

Bottom line is it is not for me to prove TH dead, it is for you to prove him alive, when there are multiple reports he was murdered, and the FBI seems to regard him as likely dead.

Also, why didn't you take me up on my offer to introduce you to my contacts in law enforcement and forensics on the Zodiac case? You say you have 100% knowledge that TH was Z, yet you refused a chance to provide your evidence to LE, so it might have been determined one way or the other. Makes no sense. Whatever else you may say about Morf and me, when we have evidence, we post it, try to confirm it or disprove it, and if it stands, and is important, we pass it on to law enforcement. Thus, we run the risk of being proved "wrong" by law enforcement, but since we believe in the evidence, we are willing to take that risk. You decided not to.

Morf, if bandwith is a problem and you want to lock this thread, in fairness to the great amount of work done by Rand, could you do it with a provision that in case of EXCEPTIONAL or IMPORTANT new evidence, it may be briefly opened up for Rand or someone else to post such evidence and have a short discussion on it. And by exceptional, important and NEW, I mean evidence showing TH was alive - or dead - or something of similar import. Does that seem fair?

AK Wilks wrote:

Rand said "There is no death certificate" . Well, there is no death certificate for Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Earhart either. Are they alive?

Rand said "and there is not a single official record of any kind that lists the man as dead."

I think it is California law, and the law of most states, that a person "missing" for 7 years can be legally declared dead by the widow/family, if they so wish, for purposes of insurance, end of marriage, etc.

Bottom line is it is not for me to prove TH dead, it is for you to prove him alive, when there are multiple reports he was murdered, and the FBI seems to regard him as likely dead.

Also, why didn't you take me up on my offer to introduce you to my contacts in law enforcement and forensics on the Zodiac case? You say you have 100% knowledge that TH was Z, yet you refused a chance to provide your evidence to LE, so it might have been determined one way or the other. Makes no sense. Whatever else you may say about Morf and me, when we have evidence, we post it, try to confirm it or disprove it, and if it stands, and is important, we pass it on to law enforcement. Thus, we run the risk of being proved "wrong" by law enforcement, but since we believe in the evidence, we are willing to take that risk. You decided not to.

Morf, if bandwith is a problem and you want to lock this thread, in fairness to the great amount of work done by Rand, could you do it with a provision that in case of EXCEPTIONAL or IMPORTANT new evidence, it may be briefly opened up for Rand or someone else to post such evidence and have a short discussion on it. And by exceptional, important and NEW, I mean evidence showing TH was alive - or dead - or something of similar import. Does that seem fair?

YES, I mentioned above that if Rand shows TH was alive, he may certainly contact me and I would open it back up. I also will not delete the material he has put together on the forum. Who knows, maybe that cop in Chicago that may have solved the cipher will have found Troy's name in the cipher...that would be interesting. I also suggest that if anybody has interest in Troy H as a suspect, that they stay in contact with RAND.

Minutemen thread re-opened......

This is an important story about a Minuteman. Four years prior to TH's disappearance, John Harrell did the same thing, leaving an abandoned car on the side of US 66 (just like TH). Like TH, Harrell had legal problems. His solution: disappear and make it appear to be an act of foul play. DePugh wrote in On Target (The MM newsletter) that the Harrell family had named their killers in a letter. The implication was that government communists had killed the family. Harrell and his family were found--quite alive--on September 19, 1964. They were in Strawberry, Arkansas [300 inhabitants at the time] under the name Taylor. A meter-checker grew suspicious of them, believing that someone was "locked' inside the Taylor home. He also reported seeing several firearms and chainsaws in the home. No one was locked up in the home, but, after several reported burglaries in the area, Harrell (aka Taylor) was arrested and the ruse was up. He spent 10 years in jail. Here's the April 15, 1963 newstory that DePugh had planted (just as Bettie did for Troy in 1967). The details are soooo similiar:

Harrell Followers Offer $5,000 Reward
NORBORNE, Mo. (UPI) —
The anti-Communist Minutemen organization Saturday offered a $5,000 reward for information concerning the whereabouts of the John Harrell family of Louisville, Ill. Harrell, a member of the Minutemen and head of the Christian Conservative movement, his wife, five of their children and his mother have been missing since March 31 when they left Louisville en r o u t e to San Fidel, N. M. Their abandoned car was discovered April 7 on U. S. 66, about 10 m i l e s south of Springfield, Ill.

And also like TH..he was arrested..not to bright those MM lol..

Actually, TH was not arrested. We don't know what happened to him. I claim he went underground, just as he said he would do three weeks before he disappeared. Others, however, claim that DePugh killed him.

To be fair, I think Rand should be allowed to have a Minutemen thread. Or Houghtonthread.
There shouldn´t be any difference between Aks 100 threads on Ted or Rands work on Troy. (DONT take it the wrong way AK.. )
There might not be any proof he was there but on the other side there is not any proof he wasn´t.
What better way to go underground than being assumed to be dead? Isn´t that the purpose?

Compare what we know of TH to Z.

1. Physical appearance is spot on. Big chin, widow's peak, acne on his chin, neck area, 5'11", overweight (paunch), wore black pleated pants, he had a distinctive monotone voice, a bad back that made him walk with a bit of a limp, and, last but not least, he wore buttons etc.




2. Graduated college with a journalism degree, worked as a miner and had an explosives license issued from CA, and was an expert at codes. As a Minuteman, TH exhorted his MM followers to write Letters to the Editor. Prior to 1967, he lived in San Diego (Honeymoon murders? CJB, Domingos and Edwards, etc), then we don't know what happened to him. But he was the CA coordinator of the MM, and so traveled the state for weeks at a time. He liked playing Halloween pranks and he lived by his short-wave radio (THIS IS THE ZODIAC SPEAKING)


He also sent Greeting Cards to prospective MM members, such as this one:


TH hid his cache of guns and ammo in, of all places, the High Sierras.


3. As a boy, TH was convicted of arson and he was carrying a KKK hood with him:


Then, mere weeks after TH fired his lawyer for "selling him up the river," that lawyer mysteriously died in a fire:


A 1961 NY Times article says about him: "According to state records, he has been in police custody fifteen times in the past eleven years, mostly in burglary cases. Other charges ranged from auto violations to suspicion of rape. He was convicted in 1952 of tampering with a vehicle, and given a six-month suspended sentence. In 1957, he was convicted of indecent exposure and served two months of a six-month sentence." He was convicted again for indecent exposure in 1967. He was also convicted of malicious destruction when he tore several pages from a library book.


And he shot out the tires of a car while a woman was in the car:



Consider this:

TAMPERING WITH VEHICLES: Z tampered with the cars of Kathleen Johns and CJB, and he wrote on Hartnell's door.

INDECENT EXPOSURE: The HC is a picture of a skeleton with a pumpkin over its genitals, which Z purposefully placed there. Then he deliberately puts a skeleton in a garrish pose sans the pumpkin and writes: PEEK A BOO!
The eyes and the skeleton on the card spell out "by TROY," who was featured in LOOK magazine (LOOK = EYES):

On the back of the card is a figure that can be seen as a TH for Troy Houghton:


Note that Z highlights the TH in THe by capitalizing it in this unconfirmed Z letter:



4. Before he was Zodiac, the killer signed his letter with a cross hair symbol. Compare it with the MM crosshair symbol




5. The dates of all the murders have special significance for the MM. I have documented that elsewhere and will do so again if asked. Taken together, the dates have no special meaning for any other suspect.

6. Houghton and the MM were twice linked to Gilbert and Sullivan in prominent newspaper articles, and one was titled: THE MINUTEMEN HAVE A 'LITTLE LIST" -- AND GUESS WHO'S ON IT. A few weeks before he disappeared, TH said he was going underground with a little list of people targeted for assassination.

7. Z bragged about tampering with his gun, adding a small flashlight taped to the barrell of the gun. Compare with this On Target newsletter and ask yourself: Is TH the kind of guy who would brag about tampering with his gun to better shoot people in the dark?

Azazel wrote:

To be fair, I think Rand should be allowed to have a Minutemen thread. Or Houghtonthread.
There shouldn´t be any difference between Aks 100 threads on Ted or Rands work on Troy. (DONT take it the wrong way AK.. )
There might not be any proof he was there but on the other side there is not any proof he wasn´t.
What better way to go underground than being assumed to be dead? Isn´t that the purpose?

That is what this thread is for!

The real issue is not that TH or anyone else can or do go underground, but the proof that LE is wanting is that he surfaced as the infamous serial killer called Zodiac!
For many of us circumstantial evidence abounds,but they want DNA and prints,personal items that match any and all Z evidence,etc.!

So rand is in the same boat -and no disrespect-as all of us. I don't see any suspect as 'superior' as forensic evidence such as LE desires has NOT been produced. Until that happens it is a hobby( a worthy one) and any info that seems to tie into Zodiac is for FYI only.The posts and debates will continue until then. A confession with solid forensic backup would be accepted as we well know! We can 'believe'all we want that our guy is the one and get angry and steamy,but that won't change LE and a court trial!

Even if every single Z poster thought a certain suspect was Zodiac it still does not change what I stated.We are not here or there trying to convince posters our guy is Zodiac. Again,even they all believed you what is that?

If a person,let's say, came forward and said he killed Cheri Jo Bates. LE would demand proof.Where is the typewriter?Those military shoes?That old Studebaker? Prints? DNA?The small knife,etc,etc.His word would not be enough.

So let's all relax!!!We are not LE!

COMPARE THE NUMBERS AND LETTERS IN THESE THREE SAMPLES:






In addition, I just found this FBI document. It's from June 1968 and says that TH was last seen 9-10 months ago. That would be Oct-November 1967. But TH was supposedly murdered in May 1967. Hmmm.

Last night, I had a long conversation with TH's best friend (who shall remain unnamed here). He doesn't know what happened to Troy. He says that DePugh denied having anything to do with his disappearance. He told me that Troy had just bought a used car; that he had driven a beatup white car (he couldn't remember the make and model) that had four doors. He said that TH was very secretive. What puzzled him most about TH's disappearance is that LE would not investigate it. This was shocking to him because the MM were a dangerous paramilitary organization they were accused of trying to bring down or undermine the US govt. So if an insider tells LE that he and others suspect the leader of the MM (DePugh) to have murdered one of his own, why wouldn't the government be all over that to try to get him? He and others were willing to betray DePugh, and they had no motives outside of trying to get justice for TH. So, he said, it just doesn't add up. Why were they so stand-offish unless they knew something or were in some way involved with TH's disappearance?

What I do know for certain is that two MM members took LE to the gravesite, where TH was supposedly buried. They dug it up and no body was found.