Fred Manalli

Ok I don't know exactly what these might imply.



Might this cause someone to walk in a certain way?



I can't decide if this is an analogy or not but would welcome guesses as to what ms is.

bentley wrote:

traveller1st wrote:

morf13 wrote:

WOW!

In a letter dated July 31...(think its 1970"

Manalli writes.....

"GOD SAVE ME- CATCH ME BEFORE I KILL MORE"

I had to a double take. Again,I will post that tonight unless Seagull cares to do it sooner.

Seriously, this guy's stuff. At every flipping turn there's something else. What's next? "Alternative lakeside Picnics: What to bring"

Is he referring to himself or is this a line from his (or any) book?

Its out of the blue. The line before that, he mentions that he was painting "a lovely centrifuge thing"

In a letter dated 12/18/70, Manalli mentions 'Fainting spells'. Are they blackouts???

In another letter, he mentions needing money for a new set of tires which made me think of what Ken Narlow stated about the tire tracks at Berryessa,somebody that didnt have money to buy new tires.

morf13 wrote:

Here, Manalli mentions writings from DANTE (Dantes Inferno). I know that Dante has been brought up before regarding Zodiac-

To be published in 1984 (the fall no less), and he died in 1976? Wasn't exactly rushing things along eh? When was this written?

traveller1st wrote:

Ok I don't know exactly what these might imply.



Might this cause someone to walk in a certain way?



I can't decide if this is an analogy or not but would welcome guesses as to what ms is.

he is talking about a "twisted vertabrae" which affected his heart,brain,and blood pressure,and caused the fainting spells.

bentley wrote:

traveller1st wrote:

morf13 wrote:

WOW!

In a letter dated July 31...(think its 1970"

Manalli writes.....

"GOD SAVE ME- CATCH ME BEFORE I KILL MORE"

I had to a double take. Again,I will post that tonight unless Seagull cares to do it sooner.

Seriously, this guy's stuff. At every flipping turn there's something else. What's next? "Alternative lakeside Picnics: What to bring"

Is he referring to himself or is this a line from his (or any) book?

Looking at it in context it may be what he suggests his painting might mean, as in what you might interpret from looking at it.

morf13 wrote:

he is talking about a "twisted vertabrae" which affected his heart,brain,and blood pressure,and caused the fainting spells.

Hmm sounds like a multitude of problems, some of which might make you "shaky" on occassion.

traveller1st wrote:

bentley wrote:

traveller1st wrote:

morf13 wrote:

WOW!

In a letter dated July 31...(think its 1970"

Manalli writes.....

"GOD SAVE ME- CATCH ME BEFORE I KILL MORE"

I had to a double take. Again,I will post that tonight unless Seagull cares to do it sooner.

Seriously, this guy's stuff. At every flipping turn there's something else. What's next? "Alternative lakeside Picnics: What to bring"

Is he referring to himself or is this a line from his (or any) book?

Looking at it in context it may be what he suggests his painting might mean, as in what you might interpret from looking at it.

I dont know, maybe. If all of his writing comparisons, the Joyce stuff,etc didnt look so much like Z, then I wouldn't be so suspicious of it. The fact it sounds alot like the Belli letter is creepy

Quote :

I dont know, maybe. If all of his writing comparisons, the Joyce stuff,etc didnt look so much like Z, then I wouldn't be so suspicious of it. The fact it sounds alot like the Belli letter is creepy

Good point about the Belli letter. I was thinking that before when he quoted the Beatles "Help me if you can I'm feeling down". As for looking like Z in what he writes, there's zynchrocitiy on tap and them some. What creeps me out is that a lot of the stuff he writes that's like that makes sense in the context of what Zodiac wrote and usually provides a pretty instant correlation in your head.

traveller1st wrote:

Quote :

I dont know, maybe. If all of his writing comparisons, the Joyce stuff,etc didnt look so much like Z, then I wouldn't be so suspicious of it. The fact it sounds alot like the Belli letter is creepy

Good point about the Belli letter. I was thinking that before when he quoted the Beatles "Help me if you can I'm feeling down". As for looking like Z in what he writes, there's zynchrocitiy on tap and them some. What creeps me out is that a lot of the stuff he writes that's like that makes sense in the context of what Zodiac wrote and usually provides a pretty instant correlation in your head.

If he just made a comment about his art being lethal or something to that effect,it would seem really harmless, or if he said God help people that see my art,etc But the fact he said 'GOD SAVE ME' and then added the part about 'before I kill more'...thats more than chilling in my book...he is saying that he has killed before. Is he being honest? How long after the murder he was a suspect in,was this letter written?

I'm just thinking. I wonder if there's anything in the fact that he wrote kill more rather than kill again, I would have said again rather than more if it had been me.

Hmmm "....There will be more"

Not sure if he was lying,just joking,or was telling the truth,but Manalli is the only POI linked to the Zodiac case that has ever stated that he killed people. Am I correct?

morf13 wrote:

Here, Manalli mentions writings from DANTE (Dantes Inferno). I know that Dante has been brought up before regarding Zodiac-

How could Manalli publish a book in the fall 1984 when he died in 1976?

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Here, Manalli mentions writings from DANTE (Dantes Inferno). I know that Dante has been brought up before regarding Zodiac-

How could Manalli publish a book in the fall 1984 when he died in 1976?

Maybe a typo? Probably meant 74 or 64,I dont know,but Manalli was writing this guy since 1959 until his death

TF, my thought on that is Manalli is referencing George Orwell's novel 1984 in some manner. There is no doubt that Manalli was a heavy reader so that would make sense. I read 1984 too many years ago to remember what the Fall of that year was about.

Seagull, any luck with that Paradise book by Manalli? I can see some of the pages here-
http://books.google.com/books?id=364nAQAAIAAJ&q=%22paradise,+it's++a+nice+place%22&dq=%22paradise,+it's++a+nice+place%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2ijaT6POGJGE8QSNr_3rBQ&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ

Ed Neil posted this on an old archived zk thread:
"Carlstedt mentioned Manalli (though not by name) in the 3-5-1989 Press-Democrat story. I don't know much about him other than the few tidbits in the paper, and whatever was mentioned in the blue book (and we all know how accurate that author is when it comes to reporting the truth)"

Anybody have that article?

Seagull wrote:

TF, my thought on that is Manalli is referencing George Orwell's novel 1984 in some manner. There is no doubt that Manalli was a heavy reader so that would make sense. I read 1984 too many years ago to remember what the Fall of that year was about.

A typo?, or Ray Bradbury's 1984? maybe...

Do you happen to know Manalli's address/adresses in the timeframe 1963-1976 ?


And I remember reading somwere, a cupple of years ago, that after Manalli's death, even though that Santa Rosa police suspected him in at least Kim Allen's death, they would NOT go further with the investigation due to that "his family had be through enough" and that " they didn't want to cause the family further pain" , or somthing to that effect.

OK I just found it in my filels (dated: 21-08-2008), but I didn't add any link to the info, so I don't know where I found it, or who wrote it:

"I recently found the name of that Santa Rosa Junior College arts instructor who had drawings of the murdered coeds in hog tied in sexual positions,the same man who was killed as a result from a car accident on Hwy 12 between Santa Rosa and Sebastapol:Fred Manalli. His name was mentioned from a old newspaper article,which is not available online or even from books,however. What is so bizzare about Fred Manalli aka Santa Rosa Junior College arts teacher ,from what I read on "Zodiac Unmasked" about him,is that he drew sketches of Kim Wendy Allen in a sadomasochistic pose,and himself being flogged with whips and chains. A missing item belonging to Kim Allen other than her clothing and a earring-a backpack. During itemizing the property found within the teachers automobile was a backpack that was owned by one of the Sonoma victims. Allen owned a backpack listed as missing,so it must of been hers. Why wasn't the teacher held as a potential suspect even after his death? According to Sonoma Sheriffs Dept,not everything was itemized.only the items found in his pockets was returned to his next of kin. Most of this very conspicious evidence,if not concrete,was dropped for any further investigation by Sonoma Sheriffs Dept because they felt in no position to ruin Manalli's reputation,for his family's sake. What were investigators keeping back on this case?"


I really wonder why Manalli´s connection to the Kim W Allen murder case was covered up?

Do you have any information about this Seagull?

I've usps mailed my request for Paradise and haven't heard anything yet.

I have the 1989 article but it is difficult to read. I have it scanned but will crop it for posting.

Foreigner, he had one main address at 428 8th st in Santa Rosa. He had also lived in San Fran too in the early to mid 60's. Here is a listing for him & his wife in 66-
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sanfranciscodirectory/1966/1966_1225.pdf

and here from 64... http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sanfranciscodirectory/1964/1964_2488.pdf

And here is a pic of his Santa Rosa house sent by TRAV:


Peek thru the Pines anybody?? Actually had a chuckle about that with Trav last night,and after some research determined that some pine tree species grow at 2 feet per year. I guess its hard to know how old those trees are,but I dont think they were that high when he lived there. But if they were,then 'peek thru the pines' would be interesting

It would be although personally, until I know better, the provenance of the pines comment remains with the pines card and the locations mentioned on it.

Deb,

Was Manalli's connection to the SRHM discovered before or after his death?

TF - thanks for posting, interesting stuff.

Theforeigner wrote:

Seagull wrote:

TF, my thought on that is Manalli is referencing George Orwell's novel 1984 in some manner. There is no doubt that Manalli was a heavy reader so that would make sense. I read 1984 too many years ago to remember what the Fall of that year was about.

A typo?, or Ray Bradbury's 1984? maybe...

Do you happen to know Manalli's address/adresses in the timeframe 1963-1976 ?


And I remember reading somwere, a cupple of years ago, that after Manalli's death, even though that Santa Rosa police suspected him in at least Kim Allen's death, they would NOT go further with the investigation due to that "his family had be through enough" and that " they didn't want to cause the family further pain" , or somthing to that effect.

OK I just found it in my filels (dated: 21-08-2008), but I didn't add any link to the info, so I don't know where I found it, or who wrote it:

"I recently found the name of that Santa Rosa Junior College arts instructor who had drawings of the murdered coeds in hog tied in sexual positions,the same man who was killed as a result from a car accident on Hwy 12 between Santa Rosa and Sebastapol:Fred Manalli. His name was mentioned from a old newspaper article,which is not available online or even from books,however. What is so bizzare about Fred Manalli aka Santa Rosa Junior College arts teacher ,from what I read on "Zodiac Unmasked" about him,is that he drew sketches of Kim Wendy Allen in a sadomasochistic pose,and himself being flogged with whips and chains. A missing item belonging to Kim Allen other than her clothing and a earring-a backpack. During itemizing the property found within the teachers automobile was a backpack that was owned by one of the Sonoma victims. Allen owned a backpack listed as missing,so it must of been hers. Why wasn't the teacher held as a potential suspect even after his death? According to Sonoma Sheriffs Dept,not everything was itemized.only the items found in his pockets was returned to his next of kin. Most of this very conspicious evidence,if not concrete,was dropped for any further investigation by Sonoma Sheriffs Dept because they felt in no position to ruin Manalli's reputation,for his family's sake. What were investigators keeping back on this case?"


I really wonder why Manalli´s connection to the Kim W Allen murder case was covered up?

Do you have any information about this Seagull?

Some of that post is correct, most is speculation. I am always suspicious of people who post things like that with no documentation or references and tend to think that they let their imaginations run away with what little is true.

I have posted before that there were sketches found among Manalli's belongings. They were found in his home and not his automobile. As a matter of fact he had a van not a car. The drawings were found by his ex-wife and a man named Don Emblen who were cleaning out his home sometime after his death. They were the people who turned the drawings over to the sheriff's department. I do not know how they knew the drawings were of Kim Allen unless they had been labled in some way. I confirmed this information with Butch Carlstedt when I spoke with him in about 2006.

Manalli's parents lived in Illinois it's hard to imagine that ruining Manalli's reputation in California would have much effect on his parents. I believe that the main reason Manalli was not named is because he was dead and the dead can not defend themselves. There may have been a reasonable explanation for the drawings but since he is not alive to answer to that he can not named as the suspect. Maybe the parents were informed of the suspicions either by LE or the ex-wife and told LE they would sue if Fred's name surfaced, accused of being a murderer. I just don't know for sure.

"Another suspect, Siebe said, was
a middle-aged, married man who
died in a traffic accident in the 70's.
In investigating the death,
detectives found evidence that
showed the man knew about the
murders. But there wasn't enough
evidence to close the case, Siebe
said.
Carlstedt believes that man and
another man also dead, were
responsible for al least most of the
murders.
"After those two guys died, there
was nothing. No more female
homicide. I'd bet money it was
them, but it can never be proven."


Seagull,I found the text of the article. Did Carlstedt sound as convinced to you of Manalli's guilt as he sounds in this article? And do you know the name of this 2nd man that Carlstedt thought had killed some of the girls?

morf13 wrote:

traveller1st wrote:

Ok I don't know exactly what these might imply.



Might this cause someone to walk in a certain way?



I can't decide if this is an analogy or not but would welcome guesses as to what ms is.

he is talking about a "twisted vertabrae" which affected his heart,brain,and blood pressure,and caused the fainting spells.

Wow, I've been gone a few days and come back to "Zodiac killer mystery solved." Not sure whether I'm kidding about that or not! Pretty remarkable stuff here.

I am nearly certain "ms" is shorthand for "manuscript." He was an English teacher and writer wasn't he?

Yeah he was a writer, and English teacher. Also, plays too I think.

Ahhh good call on manuscript, makes sense.


EDIT: Just to add, other than the literary end of things this guy was artistic with his hands as well. I wonder how well drawn those drawings were. Is it possible they were good enough for the girl to be recognised. Also, he bought thrift store furniture and 'done it up' so he seems to be a bit of an all rounder creatively or at least a varied experimenter, oh and there's the paintings too. That would be in line with my suspicions about Zodiac creative nature.