More on Don Bujok

AK Wilks wrote:

IBF

I edited your post, because you went off into personal attacks, sarcasm and ridicule.

Kevin, I have no idea if you are in that picture IBF posted, but if you object to that picture, let me or another mod know and we will remove it.

IBF, you can call for Kevin to post the handwriting, I concur with you, lets see it. But there is a NICE way to do things. Not with personal attacks and sarcasm, we don't do that here.

It doesn't bother me. It's not me ... I'll post one of me in my band if he'd like. Let em post away.... Make me bald and fat if ya want but I'm almost 6'00" and a 180 pounds. What I'd like to see is him and a little about his life and who he is.... i'm sure he's one great guy!

Studying to be a salesman, no doubt Bujok was reading stuff like Zig Ziglar's books on salesmanship and Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends and Influence People while he was at Deer Lodge. These books can be pretty good texts for learning things with practical applications to your daily life, if you're so inclined. Like how to appear to be a great guy while you're conning people, committing crimes, etc.

Kevin B wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:

IBF

I edited your post, because you went off into personal attacks, sarcasm and ridicule.

Kevin, I have no idea if you are in that picture IBF posted, but if you object to that picture, let me or another mod know and we will remove it.

IBF, you can call for Kevin to post the handwriting, I concur with you, lets see it. But there is a NICE way to do things. Not with personal attacks and sarcasm, we don't do that here.

It doesn't bother me. It's not me ... I'll post one of me in my band if he'd like. Let em post away.... Make me bald and fat if ya want but I'm almost 6'00" and a 180 pounds. What I'd like to see is him and a little about his life and who he is.... i'm sure he's one great guy!

OK.

IBF is a good guy and a good researcher, but he posted some attacks on you and your family, I thought they were out of line, so I deleted them.

He has a right to be critical and ask tough questions, such as why not post the handwriting, I agree with him there, but it has to be done with no personal attacks.

Carry on.

Or should I say rock on?

AK Wilks wrote:

IBF

I edited your post, because you went off into personal attacks, sarcasm and ridicule.

Kevin, I have no idea if you are in that picture IBF posted, but if you object to that picture, let me or another mod know and we will remove it.

IBF, you can call for Kevin to post the handwriting, I concur with you, lets see it. But there is a NICE way to do things. Not with personal attacks and sarcasm, we don't do that here.

I agree. IBF, I have told you multiple times about that. This is the LAST time.

Kevin B wrote:

Nin,

Remember, this man was very disturbed and he told you why he killed. He was collecting "slaves for his afterlife."

Kevin,

To my knowledge Ed Edwards told us of this. Have you found anyone who has been able to substantiate Edwards' (who also claimed Bujok went by the name Zodiac while at Deer Lodge) claim?

A 1971 Ohio newspaper article, posted around here somewhere, states that SFPD was looking at Bujok based on Edwards' claim. Have you mentioned this to SFPD? Might save them, and you, some work.

Jem wrote:

Studying to be a salesman, no doubt Bujok was reading stuff like Zig Ziglar's books on salesmanship and Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends and Influence People while he was at Deer Lodge. These books can be pretty good texts for learning things with practical applications to your daily life, if you're so inclined. Like how to appear to be a great guy while you're conning people, committing crimes, etc.

Good posts, good thoughts Jem! I'll bet your right... Jem, I find it interesting that Darlene Ferrin held that painting party and the man they mentioned came wearing a suit and tie. They also said he wasn't into people (in the movie anyway.) That would fit; as if the painting party really happened, Donald Lee Bujok (spending the last 10 years in prison) would probably have just sat there (in his suit) not knowing what to do, as he probably thought a painting party had something to do with the showing of paintings.

Also, he (the man in the suit) asking questions about Darlene like: Did Darlene spend time with her daughter? Did her husband spend time with the daughter? nd What did she do with her money? That would fit Donald Lee Bujok. He wasn't into people, he had a high opinion of what people should behave like; what society should be like. You know: Zodiac's "cut the ad for the Badlands movie letter," Donald Lee Bujok's "cut the Dick Tracy comic strip," letter," Zodiac's "I saw and think the Exorcist is the biggest satirical comedy to Donald Lee Bujok's 'I have been reading and hearing all about the Exorcist all around Billings, and he basically goes on to say Exorcism is bullshit....

You know a common theme and one I am familiar with is the effect early abuse and neglect has on children. They that are abused and neglected sometimes give back to the world what the world gave to them. Ed Edward's spoke himself of 'the Impetus love affair that resulted in my birth" He repeated this throughout his life of speeches he gave to civic groups. Edward's sought "Recognition" from an early age because he had no parents. (John A.Cameron's report page 4). I believe a great book to read is 'Adopting The Hurt Child' by Gregory C. Keck and ReginaM. Kupecky.LSW. I believe you will find similar stories with all of these serial killers although there are always exceptions. I'm sure there is a combination of genetics, environment, drug abuse and other factors as well. Zodiac, wanted recognition more than anything and developed a skewed view of the world. What he wanted and never had was what we all want.....Love.

Good post Jem!!

Kevin R. Brooks


Rather than edit... My take is this: Bujok met Darlene somewhere (probably at a restaurant she worked at) and took a liking to her. But when he found out she was married and a player he grew disgusted. He may have opened his mouth too soon in trust talking to her telling her why he was in prison and that he'd killed a man. Remember Darlene would talk to everyone and she may just have talked to the wrong man.

She may have found him strange and did not want any of her friends to be around him as she like many were scared of Don as he was very strange. He may have followed her and killed her to shut her up? I’m just speculating! It could have been he called himself Lee out there in California or maybe Don was the name they were trying to remember. Anyway, remember Darlene said, “He’s back again from “out of State” when talking to her baby-sitter or friend.


Kevin b.

bentley wrote:

Kevin B wrote:

Nin,

Remember, this man was very disturbed and he told you why he killed. He was collecting "slaves for his afterlife."

Kevin,

To my knowledge Ed Edwards told us of this. Have you found anyone who has been able to substantiate Edwards' (who also claimed Bujok went by the name Zodiac while at Deer Lodge) claim?

A 1971 Ohio newspaper article, posted around here somewhere, states that SFPD was looking at Bujok based on Edwards' claim. Have you mentioned this to SFPD? Might save them, and you, some work.

No one I have spoken with has told me Bujok went by the name of Zodiac. I did ask ex-guards and ex-deputy Wardens about Bujok and they told me pretty much the same thing as Edwards wrote in his book minus the "all I will kill will be my slaves in the after-life." I believe Bujok was very disturbed and the cops had that right but failed to follow up on the as my Grandpa called it "Montana connection." I have the news article from news library archive.

Thank you Bentley!

OK thanks Kevin,

So for the "slaves in afterlife" and "Zodiac" handle at Deer Lodge we are still operating under Edwards' word. Which is OK, but a corroborating witness would sure be nice.

Here is the article I mentioned, courtesy of Nin and posted on another thread. Might be here too somewhere. It would be nice to know how SFPD documented their many suspects in the case, in alphabetic order in a file cabinet I suppose, or maybe just on a list for the ones quickly dismissed. Anyway, I still think it might be a good idea to send them this article and inquire as to any previous documentation they might have on him. I don't recall anything in the FBI file, I'm sure you and others have checked. I'm going on the assumption 'Richard" is a pseudo name for DB.

I wonder if Akron PD might have anything on file if Edwards initially contacted them?

bentley wrote:

OK thanks Kevin,

So for the "slaves in afterlife" and "Zodiac" handle at Deer Lodge we are still operating under Edwards' word. Which is OK, but a corroborating witness would sure be nice.

Here is the article I mentioned, courtesy of Nin and posted on another thread. Might be here too somewhere. It would be nice to know how SFPD documented their many suspects in the case, in alphabetic order in a file cabinet I suppose, or maybe just on a list for the ones quickly dismissed. Anyway, I still think it might be a good idea to send them this article and inquire as to any previous documentation they might have on him. I don't recall anything in the FBI file, I'm sure you and others have checked. I'm going on the assumption 'Richard" is a pseudo name for DB.

I wonder if Akron PD might have anything on file if Edwards initially contacted them?

You know Bentley that's a good idea! I agree that Richard is a pseudo name for DB.
Tell you the truth I think I’m getting sick of this case as it has been real stressful dealing with LE. I have to try and make a little better copy so they may read it easier....may not be possible but I’ll try with news library. The only reason I kept things to myself is I don’t want to hurt the Bujok family as I have earned their friendship. What if I’m completely wrong? private e-mail me if you need to.
Kevin B..

bentley wrote:

OK thanks Kevin,

So for the "slaves in afterlife" and "Zodiac" handle at Deer Lodge we are still operating under Edwards' word. Which is OK, but a corroborating witness would sure be nice.

Here is the article I mentioned, courtesy of Nin and posted on another thread. Might be here too somewhere. It would be nice to know how SFPD documented their many suspects in the case, in alphabetic order in a file cabinet I suppose, or maybe just on a list for the ones quickly dismissed. Anyway, I still think it might be a good idea to send them this article and inquire as to any previous documentation they might have on him. I don't recall anything in the FBI file, I'm sure you and others have checked. I'm going on the assumption 'Richard" is a pseudo name for DB.

I wonder if Akron PD might have anything on file if Edwards initially contacted them?

I have been in touch with a con at Montana State Prison named Carl. I'm waiting for his reply on that question.... He is very old....

Kevin, you've done an outstanding job on DB. The big stand out for me among the DB/FD/EE POIs is the letters to the editor. These were apparently written by DB and so would put him top of the list of these three for having penned the Z letters. However, the others sit better in my mind for other reasons:
- EE for his 'games' e.g. posing as a psychiatrist, pretending to be this reformed criminal, going on a game show (the spotlight), killing couples in lovers' lanes and being 'husky' (his words as well as at least on of the Z witnesses - MM I think). It is a fact that EE presented himself as an upstanding citizen whilst he was still murdering people.
- FD for having actually taken a ride with someone and then shooting them. A seemingly random murder with no motivation whatsoever - even by FD's admission. Leaving CA in 1974.

If I could have one wish in the investigation of these three it would be to see the actual letters that were sent into the newspaper, supposedly by DB. I am still toying with the idea that they could have been written by EE.

bentley wrote:

..

A 1971 Ohio newspaper article, posted around here somewhere, states that SFPD was looking at Bujok based on Edwards' claim. Have you mentioned this to SFPD? Might save them, and you, some work.

The article does not mention Bujok's name. I assume they did look into Bujok pending on the content of the article, but even that is not a given. Nothing is a given in the Zodiac case. It's mind boggling.

-Nin

bentley wrote:

..

I wonder if Akron PD might have anything on file if Edwards initially contacted them?

..

Edwards was never contacted by LE regarding the Beacon article.

-Nin

bentley wrote:

OK thanks Kevin,

So for the "slaves in afterlife" and "Zodiac" handle at Deer Lodge we are still operating under Edwards' word. Which is OK, but a corroborating witness would sure be nice.

Here is the article I mentioned, courtesy of Nin and posted on another thread. Might be here too somewhere. It would be nice to know how SFPD documented their many suspects in the case, in alphabetic order in a file cabinet I suppose, or maybe just on a list for the ones quickly dismissed. Anyway, I still think it might be a good idea to send them this article and inquire as to any previous documentation they might have on him. I don't recall anything in the FBI file, I'm sure you and others have checked. I'm going on the assumption 'Richard" is a pseudo name for DB.

I wonder if Akron PD might have anything on file if Edwards initially contacted them?

Anybody have a larger, clearer picture of this article? Its hard to read

What IF.....Richard, was a fellow inmate of these 3 guys? Perhaps, he could have alos known about Bujok's fascination with Egyptian stuff, or perhaps Bujok copied the egypt stuff from Richard? How do we know that the guy that Edwards is talking about really is not a guy named Richard?

List of a great deal of Deer Lodge prisoners Found here:
http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/ark:/80444/xv90306

Maybe one of them could have even gotten out prior to the Bates murder, and made their way to Riverside. There are a good amount of Richards named in the link above, and a few with the initials RH.

RICHARD HERMAN
RICHARD HAESSLY
RICHARD HARRIS
RICHARD HAYES
RICHARD HEAVYGUN
RICHARD HELTEN
RICHARD L. HENDRICKSON----Found this interesting,born 1940, died in EUREKA CA in 2006(Zodiac Eureka card)that names is somewhat common
RICHARD STANLEY HAPPEL
RICHARD M. HODKE------Think I found a death record for this guy in Los Angeles, 1976 (he was born in MT in 1940)
RICHARD A. HUNT
RICHARD HURLBURT
RICHARD HUTCHINSON


Any of these guys hanging out in the SF bay area, or around Riverside???

Also, here you can find a list of the prison population, parole records, etc
http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/ark:/80444/xv90306#dscID

Kevin B. wrote:

She (Darlene) may have found him strange and did not want any of her friends to be around him as she like many were scared of Don as he was very strange. He may have followed her and killed her to shut her up? I’m just speculating! It could have been he called himself Lee out there in California or maybe Don was the name they were trying to remember. Anyway, remember Darlene said, “He’s back again from “out of State” when talking to her baby-sitter or friend.

Wow! If this guy isn't Zodiac, he's sure bursting with zynchronicities! Easy to understand how Don LEE Bujok could get really angry after confiding in a friendly, sympathetic girl and then being rebuffed by her.

Luke, however, is making a good point about Edwards and his possible involvement, maybe writing those letters in Bujok's name, etc. Of Bujok, Edwards and Dryman, it's Edwards that creeps me out the most. Really a suspicious character.

Good job as always Nin!

Here is the name of the company Donald Lee Bujok worked for out of prison. It is called ‘Aero-Chem’ ; they were out of Milwaukee Wisconsin and the company sold pepper-spray (curb 20) as well as other chemical products. They are now defunct but emerged as a new company after a big law-suit. I believe with all my heart Donald Lee Bujok is Zodiac. It is very hard to track some things you all have asked about; as this is 40+ years ago and some records have been lost in fires and some may have been stolen. Here is what I will tell you. Julia Brewer is sending Don Bujok's and Ed Edwards original prints to the Dept. of Justice in California.

My belief is Ed does not fit the profile of Zodiac although there are similarities. That's my gut feeling. Donald Lee Bujok was just what LE said Zodiac would be; a maniac....He was very ill! Ed Edwards although a socio-path was full of himself and could function as a family man, an aristocrat, a psychiatrist anything he wanted. Bujok was a loner! No one really knew him; even the one man who was supposedly his good friend could tell me little about him personally! He never had a wife, children, and any real binding relationship. He would not be able to coordinate with any gang! Ed Edwards was able to function normally in society and Bujok was looked upon as being strange because of his walk, his talk and his being a loner. He was seen as harmless to most towns-people although a few told me he frightened them.

If you want time and dates.... I can't give you all of those as I have not been able to come up with his parolee information except by mouth. Perhaps LE already has it as they were fishing around Deer Lodge after I sent my information and interviews to them. Maybe Tracers or Nin, Foreigner who are the best at researching will be able to dig up some of that information. I’m good looking at physical characteristics and psychiatric traits as that’s where my research has been.

Some say Julia and I have not given out any information but we have provided original mugs, hand-prints, hand-writing samples (although small) interviews with people that new Donald Bujok even family members who’s friendship I cherish. This may take many weeks or months as I don’t see an urgency from LE and quite frankly most of you know more about this case than some of them; as they have so many to work and we foucus just on Zodiac. See what you can come up with on the Aero-Chem. Maybe we can find an ex-salesman or manager that worked at the company when Don did. The problem with some of this info it comes from older people not documentation!

Kevin Brooks

Kevin B wrote:

..Julia Brewer is sending Don Bujok's and Ed Edwards original prints to the Dept. of Justice in California.

..

Kevin, when you say "prints", you mean fingerprints or handwriting samples? I am not clear on that.

-Nin

Finger-prints, i'm sorry I write to fast without enough thought to if I have explained myself....

morf13 wrote:

What IF.....Richard, was a fellow inmate of these 3 guys? Perhaps, he could have alos known about Bujok's fascination with Egyptian stuff, or perhaps Bujok copied the egypt stuff from Richard? How do we know that the guy that Edwards is talking about really is not a guy named Richard?

List of a great deal of Deer Lodge prisoners Found here:
http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/ark:/80444/xv90306

Maybe one of them could have even gotten out prior to the Bates murder, and made their way to Riverside. There are a good amount of Richards named in the link above, and a few with the initials RH.

RICHARD HERMAN
RICHARD HAESSLY
RICHARD HARRIS
RICHARD HAYES
RICHARD HEAVYGUN
RICHARD HELTEN
RICHARD L. HENDRICKSON----Found this interesting,born 1940, died in EUREKA CA in 2006(Zodiac Eureka card)that names is somewhat common
RICHARD STANLEY HAPPEL
RICHARD M. HODKE------Think I found a death record for this guy in Los Angeles, 1976 (he was born in MT in 1940)
RICHARD A. HUNT
RICHARD HURLBURT
RICHARD HUTCHINSON


Any of these guys hanging out in the SF bay area, or around Riverside???

Also, here you can find a list of the prison population, parole records, etc
http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/ark:/80444/xv90306#dscID

I agree Morf. Richard is a popular name, but worth looking into. Don't know what if anything could be found.

In police reports it mentions one of Darlene's good friends was "a man named Richard who drove a white Cougar". (Although I think I might know who he was).

(--Funny thing too, but I basically disregarded it, is that Michael Mageau says in the Fincher Documentary DVD that the guys' name was Richard...and goes off how he is sure. OBVIOUSLY we know he did not know this in 1969, but I can't help but wonder if this was the guy who the PD report mentions. NOT THAT THIS RICHARD WAS ZODIAC, but maybe Michael DID know of the Richard in the white Cougar.)

morf13 wrote:

What IF.....Richard, was a fellow inmate of these 3 guys? Perhaps, he could have alos known about Bujok's fascination with Egyptian stuff, or perhaps Bujok copied the egypt stuff from Richard? How do we know that the guy that Edwards is talking about really is not a guy named Richard?

It would have to be a Richard that killed a Montana cop if Edwards is accurate...

Kevin B wrote:

Finger-prints, i'm sorry I write to fast without enough thought to if I have explained myself....

Okay, thanks.

-Nin

bentley wrote:

morf13 wrote:

What IF.....Richard, was a fellow inmate of these 3 guys? Perhaps, he could have alos known about Bujok's fascination with Egyptian stuff, or perhaps Bujok copied the egypt stuff from Richard? How do we know that the guy that Edwards is talking about really is not a guy named Richard?

It would have to be a Richard that killed a Montana cop if Edwards is accurate...

Wow, then that does kind of make it sound like it might be Bujok then. Any other guys in that prison that killed a MT cop?

morf13 wrote:

bentley wrote:

morf13 wrote:

What IF.....Richard, was a fellow inmate of these 3 guys? Perhaps, he could have alos known about Bujok's fascination with Egyptian stuff, or perhaps Bujok copied the egypt stuff from Richard? How do we know that the guy that Edwards is talking about really is not a guy named Richard?

It would have to be a Richard that killed a Montana cop if Edwards is accurate...

Wow, then that does kind of make it sound like it might be Bujok then. Any other guys in that prison that killed a MT cop?

Let's hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me...