The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok

morf13 wrote:

Finally got my hands on the Bojok prison record and mugshot. They are included here. One thing that is annoying, is that I still see no indication anyplace of how/when/why he got out of prison, instead of serving a full life sentence. I think he is an interesting POI as far as the Z case goes since he served time at Deer Lodge, and was a prolific writer to newspaper editors, even his writings had some Z-like qualities. On the other hand, I see zero connection between him and the SF bay area, nor do I see how a convicted felon would be able to move back and forth between two states. This mugshot of him is from 1954-57 era, so I dont know what he looked like during the z murders. But his description generally sounds liek Z, 5 ft 9 and 200 lbs, build...stocky. By the way, list his shoe size as 9.

I also have prison sheets for his cohorts Valentine/Dryman and Edwards. Will tru to add them later today.

Here is why Bujok was discharged: #369 means this

Cyclothymic personality. (A mood disorder characterized by numerous hypomanic and depressive periods with symptoms like those of manic and major depressive episodes but of lesser severity). I like this guy....... I have a gut feeling.... I hope we can place him in California..

The Disease Perspective




PTypes Personality Types proposes Cyclothymic Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of pronounced periodic changes in mood, behavior, thinking, sleep, and energy levels, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by seven (or more) of the following:

has depressive periods: depressed mood or loss of interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities and pastimes alternating with hypomanic periods: elevated, expansive, or irritable mood (American Psychiatric Association, 1980, pg. 220);

becomes excessively involved in pleasurable activities with lack of concern for the high potential of painful consequences alternating with restriction of involvement in pleasurable activities and guilt over past activities (pg. 220);

alternates between over-optimism or exaggeration of past achievement and a pessimistic attitude toward the future, or brooding about past events (pg. 220);

is more talkative than usual, with inappropriate laughing, joking, and punning: and, then, less talkative, with tearfulness or crying (pg. 220);

has a decreased need for sleep alternating with hypersomnia (Akiskal, Khani, and Scott-Strauss qtd. in Jamison, pg. 264); 1

has shaky self-esteem: naive grandiose overconfidence alternating with lack of self-confidence (pg. 264);

has periods of sharpened and creative thinking alternating with periods of mental confusion and apathy (pg. 264);

displays marked unevenness in the quantity and quality of productivity, often associated with unusual working hours (pg. 264);

engages in uninhibited people-seeking (that may lead to hyper-sexuality) alternating with introverted self-absorption (pg. 264);

frequently shifts line of work, study, interest, or future plans (pg. 264);

engages in occasional financial extravagance (pg. 264);

has a tendency toward promiscuity, with repeated conjugal or romantic failure (pg. 264);

may use alcohol or drugs to control moods or to augment excitement (pg. 264);

has irritable-angry-explosive outbursts that alienate loved ones (pg. 264);

makes frequent changes in residence or geographical location (Akiskal, 1995, pg. 1143).




1Akiskal, H. S., Khani, M. K., and Scott-Strauss A. (1979). Cyclothymic temperamental disorders. Psychiatric Clinics of North America, 2: 527-554. Philadelphia: W. B. Saunders.

Nice going Kevin. Where did you find the info about 369? Not that I'm doubting you, just curious.

-tbz

Oh dear. I recognise a few of those symptoms myself - make sure no one lends me a gun or a book on ciphers!

Here's another letter to the editor from Bujok, this one from June 15, 1975 (Billings Gazette):

Quote :

Be Counted

Up the river and round the bend, they're cutting us Americans down again.

Perhaps I'm invincibly ignorant, but it seems to me that our elected officials should consider themselves as servants of our people and be more concerned for our welfare than that of our enemies and other foreign people and powers.

It further seems to me that when our elected officials allow our interests, productivity and national sovereignty to be humbled abroad and when they allow our soldiers to die and be captured on foreign soil without fully backing them up with a victory policy that they are recalcitrant in their obligations to us and stand naked before us as incompetent fools and should be considered as unworthy of further trust and service to us.

Yet, we continue to elect (servants?) who spit upon us, who recommend gas rationing or higher prices to limit us. They call for more taxes, confiscation of our firearms, humbling us abroad and a general program of austerity to cure the situation they got us into to begin with.

Most of our officials have become so brazen that (hey no longer hide behind official secrecy and bureaucratic shadows. They now are openly propagating our destruction as a free people and what really gets me is that we are allowing them (o continue this madness and go unchecked. I am reminded of the Lovelace for President show now running in theaters. She allows men to do to her what we are allowing our politicians to do to us.

They waste our money and they allow our criminals free reign among other things and all we do is complain and won't take the necessary steps to put a halt to their incompetency.

Unless we stand up and be counted and let our voices be heard soon, all we can look forward to is a life under state control. If this is what you want, then say and do nothing and our leaders will do the rest for you including your thinking.

Don Bujok
Roundup

An ad placed by Bujok in the Billings Gazette, March 7, 1974:

Quote :

Music from the Early 1900's for sale on cassette tapes. Hawaiian—Fox Trot—Old Standards—Music patched off phono from original 78's of that bygone era of 45 to 65 years ago. Sound is good-Just like off the radio of yesteryear. One hour of Nostalgic music. Send $8.00 check or M.O. With your printed name-address and zip to Don Bujok, P.O. Box 681, Roundup, Mont. 59072.

I wonder if Groucho's version of the Mikado was included in that deal? lol

thebigZ wrote:

Nice going Kevin. Where did you find the info about 369? Not that I'm doubting you, just curious.

-tbz

Just looked on his rap sheet and it gave the number for his Army discharge and I did a search.... thanks Big Z!

I always thought it was very wierd that the Zodiac started to write somewhat against violence.
I dont remember if those letters I think of was confirmed genuine.. (Sorry, tired..)
Badlands for example. And to write about Count Marco.. The Zodiac didn´t seem lika a protector of womens right.
And here we have Bujok that appearantly murdered a sheriff talking about that criminals deserve to die. (Sorry if im the only one that read something somewhat along those lines.)
And gun control, exorcist, hunting humans and murder.
Edwards says that everyone basiclly stayed away from Bujok. And that Bujok looked up to Edwards. And that Edwards an murderous psychopat admitted that even he was somewhat scared of the guy says something about Bujok. Considered him the most dangerous criminal in Deer Lodge.
So if we were to believe Edwards they did have some kind of relationship. (Bujok looking up to Edwards..)
And if Edwards only wanted to make up a good story why bother mention a real person? Because some prisoners could call him a lyer? Well, they would call him a lyer if he made the other things about Bujok as well. As that he wanted to collect slaves for his afterlife and that Bujok was perhaps considered the most dangerous man at that time in prison.
When I found the article about Dryman the first time I thought that not many people just vanish for 40+years.
That at least make him interesting when considering his Vallejo, Napa connection. And that he was mentioned at the same place as Bujok. (in EWE:s book.)
Appearantly the riot at Deer Lodge was according to the article that the riotleader was a troublemaker.. I believe it was perhaps because of the other reason mentioned. Bad treatment. And after the warden was replaced there comes a new warden.. That promise to make things even worse for the inmates.I wonder what some inmates felt when they were threatned by gun, by fire, by rope and what else that was mentioned? And by the way, was I the only one reflecting on the eyes peeking through the holes in the fence? Halloween card.. (Which is strange because before that I just reflected it as yees peeking through wood or a tree. (Yes Im dumb..) (One of the Deer Lodge Riot articles.)
I wonder how many prisoners tought -Wait ´til I get out. I bet that some of them discussed that.. Revenge on the police and the justicesystem.
And I feel that the Zodiac was firstly intrested in humiliating the police.. And secondly the victims parents or relatives.
Herman road and BRS was an execution.. Not much sadism in that one. Lake Berryessa on the other hand different. Stine - execution.
I think we all at least can for a moment think about how this could have been done IF someone of Edwards and or Bujok was indeed the Zodiac(s).
Speculating ofcourse. I would like to hear some of your opinions.
And yes I do have that gut feeling as soon as The Foreigner posted the Bujok Exorcist letter. That gut feeling I know many people have had on various POI:s.
But still, a gut feeling that there are some very very wierd "coincidences" at least...

Azazel wrote:

I always thought it was very wierd that the Zodiac started to write somewhat against violence.
I dont remember if those letters I think of was confirmed genuine.. (Sorry, tired..)
Badlands for example. And to write about Count Marco.. The Zodiac didn´t seem lika a protector of womens right.
And here we have Bujok that appearantly murdered a sheriff talking about that criminals deserve to die. (Sorry if im the only one that read something somewhat along those lines.)
And gun control, exorcist, hunting humans and murder.
Edwards says that everyone basiclly stayed away from Bujok. And that Bujok looked up to Edwards. And that Edwards an murderous psychopat admitted that even he was somewhat scared of the guy says something about Bujok. Considered him the most dangerous criminal in Deer Lodge.
So if we were to believe Edwards they did have some kind of relationship. (Bujok looking up to Edwards..)
And if Edwards only wanted to make up a good story why bother mention a real person? Because some prisoners could call him a lyer? Well, they would call him a lyer if he made the other things about Bujok as well. As that he wanted to collect slaves for his afterlife and that Bujok was perhaps considered the most dangerous man at that time in prison.
When I found the article about Dryman the first time I thought that not many people just vanish for 40+years.
That at least make him interesting when considering his Vallejo, Napa connection. And that he was mentioned at the same place as Bujok. (in EWE:s book.)
Appearantly the riot at Deer Lodge was according to the article that the riotleader was a troublemaker.. I believe it was perhaps because of the other reason mentioned. Bad treatment. And after the warden was replaced there comes a new warden.. That promise to make things even worse for the inmates.I wonder what some inmates felt when they were threatned by gun, by fire, by rope and what else that was mentioned? And by the way, was I the only one reflecting on the eyes peeking through the holes in the fence? Halloween card.. (Which is strange because before that I just reflected it as yees peeking through wood or a tree. (Yes Im dumb..) (One of the Deer Lodge Riot articles.)
I wonder how many prisoners tought -Wait ´til I get out. I bet that some of them discussed that.. Revenge on the police and the justicesystem.
And I feel that the Zodiac was firstly intrested in humiliating the police.. And secondly the victims parents or relatives.
Herman road and BRS was an execution.. Not much sadism in that one. Lake Berryessa on the other hand different. Stine - execution.
I think we all at least can for a moment think about how this could have been done IF someone of Edwards and or Bujok was indeed the Zodiac(s).
Speculating ofcourse. I would like to hear some of your opinions.
And yes I do have that gut feeling as soon as The Foreigner posted the Bujok Exorcist letter. That gut feeling I know many people have had on various POI:s.
But still, a gut feeling that there are some very very wierd "coincidences" at least...

Maybe he was creating a completely different image of himself so no one would dare 'think he would harm anyone.' Look at Dennis Rader for 30 years he pulled that off! Look at Ed Edwards 'family man'.... Look at Bujok: He stands up for our troops justice and the American way! He wouldn't harm a flea but protect children and the American way! Meanwhile he's out 'doing his thing' and 'he did' at least once that we are aware of...What say you? Good post Azazel!

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

When I was 24 I wore a size 9 1/2 I am now 49 and wear a 10 1/2 Feet spread sometimes as we age. Maybe he wore bigger shoes as he knew he would leave tracks....just pondering. Maybe he is not Z. This guy was smart enough not to leave finger-prints (airplane glue) .... This guy is worth looking into in my opinion. I liked Troy as well.....I'll bet one of these guys on this board is Z.

Kevin B wrote:

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

When I was 24 I wore a size 9 1/2 I am now 49 and wear a 10 1/2 Feet spread sometimes as we age. Maybe he wore bigger shoes as he knew he would leave tracks....just pondering. Maybe he is not Z. This guy was smart enough not to leave finger-prints (airplane glue) .... This guy is worth looking into in my opinion. I liked Troy as well.....I'll bet one of these guys on this board is Z.

Just because Z wore those boots doesn't mean it was his correct size. Hell, maybe he picked them up at the army surplus store just for doing his thing. Who can prove he wasn't a 9 or 9 1/2? If his clothes were baggy on him, why not the shoes? I keep thinking about O.J. and those stupid gloves...

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

At first glance, I thought this guy was Scott Peterson!

[quote="thebigZ"]

Kevin B wrote:

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

When I was 24 I wore a size 9 1/2 I am now 49 and wear a 10 1/2 Feet spread sometimes as we age. Maybe he wore bigger shoes as he knew he would leave tracks....just pondering. Maybe he is not Z. This guy was smart enough not to leave finger-prints (airplane glue) .... This guy is worth looking into in my opinion. I liked Troy as well.....I'll bet one of these guys on this board is Z.

Just because Z wore those boots doesn't mean it was his correct size. Hell, maybe he picked them up at the army surplus store just for doing his thing. Who can prove he wasn't a 9 or 9 1/2? If his clothes were baggy on him, why not the shoes? I keep thinking about O.J. and those stupid gloves...[/quote}

Yes in fact it makes more sense that those boots were NOT the right size. He did a good job on leaving no fingerprints, licked stamps and envelopes so surely he would have known about tire marks and footprints! Thinking about the costume at LB and the tearing of the Stine shirt, makes me think more and more that Z could have been something like an upholsterer or carpet layer or drapery maker.

Notice in these pictures that Bojuk is wearing a striped shirt similar to Paul Stine's!

lovethecar wrote:

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

At first glance, I thought this guy was Scott Peterson!

Firstly, thanks for the nice comments. I appreciate it.
I remember when I was about 10 years old and I had an assignment at school to write a short story.
I wrote about a boy that went home and got his Magnum and shot his teatcher in the face.
For some strange reason she didn´t enjoy my writing. But thanks Keysmith for your kind words. Perhaps she was wrong.
Considering the short story about the teatcher I have to wonder if LoveTheCar meant Scott Peterson the author or the killer?

About Dryman, Edwards and Bujok..
The Zodiac case is very wierd. And happened during a somewhat unusual time. With people doing unusual things.
I remember the first time I went to a Zodiacforum. And read about the first suspect. And thought "wow" this must be the guy that did it.
And went on to the next suspect. And felt the same way. And so on and so on.
Most of us can find "secret clues" and different meaning to them depending on what person we are looking into.
That dont make every POI the Zodiac. But everyone should be encouraged to play along. Even if its just imagination.

Right now my mind is thinking about the "I have to stab you people". (Perhaps my mind remember wrong..)
In this thread that would lead me to think about people doing a part each. Have to. In my ears a little strange. But then again, the Zodiac was kind of strange.
Thrembling hands? Perhaps first time stabbing people. Dont have the impression that he thrembled in the previous claimed shootings.
In my mind the different style of attack comparing LB to BRS and LHR really logical suggest different killers.
Didn´t Edwards get sentenced for Illegal wear of uniform? Can someone explain what it means? Is it like being discharged from the military and still use the uniform? Perhaps wearing only a thong?
The Zodiac also dressed like a military man. Well, if you exclude LB.
Then after LB back to executionstyle murder.. Ofcourse not every serial killer escalede their murders. But in my mind considering the aspect that the Zodiac seemed to enjoy getting the headlines I almost would expect him to escalade.
If we look at the letters and crimescenes and accounts of surviving victims and few eyewitnesses and look at Dryman/Edwards/Bujok, (unfair to other POI:s since they are three. ) there are the "Deer Lodge" connection. And that Deer Lodge is referenced in a Zodiac communication. In the By gun, by rope, by fire. And by knife written in a little different way (by downwards?) suggest that its in reference to Deer Lodge. (Fake clew perhaps.)
IF Dryman was involved and wanted "out" then simply just changing name and vanish forever would make sense.
But on the other hand he was deemed "permantly insane" right? He wasn´t sick. He was insane. Wasn´t that the reason he in the end escaped the hanging?
Since "HARRY AND GRETCHEN BILLINGS" AND THE PEOPLE'S VOICE(Google it, PDF) (as I undertand it somehow connected to the communist party) helped Dryman to get life instead of death after 3 trials because it never initially was reported that he was declared Permanently insane.
I believe Bujoks father was involved in the mining buisness. The Eureka card with the photocopy of an pen magnet could refeer to mines or mining. Far fetched perhaps. Bujok lived on Mine road.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I still find it extremly odd especially that after Bujoks father died (I think Morf wrote something about that.) both Zodiac and Bujok started to write to the newspaper again. Starting with not just a letter on the same subject. But with an similiar opinion.(in combination with Edwards claim that THIS guy was considered the most dangerous man in Deer Lodge talking about collecting slaves for his afterlife).
Perhaps they were just two of a kind.
Well there is tonights fiction. Absolutely fact free. Real fiction perhaps I should call it. Haha...

Bujok's letter to the editor re the Exorcist reminds me of one of the journal pages left at the (more contemporary) Jenner "Drifting Inn" beach murder site of Cutshall and Allen"

"Santa Claus? Leprechauns? Tooth fairy? Alien, boogie man, and someone hairy..."

I also find very interesting his stated interest in comics. Oh, and his reputed interest in Egyptology.

The first cipher was solved. By some teatchers. It was so hard to solve that noone could crack it.
On the other hand Graysmith (I believe he did his best. Sometimes right sometimes wrong.) claimed that the book used could only be one perticular.
And it was as i remember not an advanced cryptology book.. More of a beginners guide to codes..
Perhaps the misspellings in the ciphers made it more troublesome for the ordinary code crackers?
Perhaps he even was terrible at making ciphers? I dont know. It would be kind of smart to send one cipher. That could be decoded and then send for example My name is _____________..... That would surely mess with the police. Especially if it was just random letters.
On the other hand there might be the other way around. You will not stop my collecting of slaves? Well, I wouldnt give clues if that was the case.
Perhaps some real clues with alot of deception. That surely would get them on a wild goose chase.
Think about if Bates wasn´t Zodiacs victim? For every clue they had to draw even more connections to find the Zodiac.
He is from Vallejo. Or perhaps has some ties to Berryessa? And could have lived in Riverside and San Francisco. Think of all the additional suspects for each and every city? And in a little town far far way sat a man laughing and thought about all the slaves he collected.

[quote="thebigZ"]

Kevin B wrote:

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:

Hello Azazel, good to hear from you once more. I always enjoy reading your comments, Azazel, writes so well. [Ever think about writing a book] one thing I'm confused on is this, his shoe size is 9 when Zodiac was a 10 1/2 shoe size? Just something to think about

When I was 24 I wore a size 9 1/2 I am now 49 and wear a 10 1/2 Feet spread sometimes as we age. Maybe he wore bigger shoes as he knew he would leave tracks....just pondering. Maybe he is not Z. This guy was smart enough not to leave finger-prints (airplane glue) .... This guy is worth looking into in my opinion. I liked Troy as well.....I'll bet one of these guys on this board is Z.

Just because Z wore those boots doesn't mean it was his correct size. Hell, maybe he picked them up at the army surplus store just for doing his thing. Who can prove he wasn't a 9 or 9 1/2? If his clothes were baggy on him, why not the shoes? I keep thinking about O.J. and those stupid gloves...[/quote
I have to agree with this and think he may have wore a size or two shoe bigger then what he was. Also wouldn't surprise me if he wore a weight belt or padding to make himself look heavier then he actually was.

thebigZ wrote:

Nice going Kevin. Where did you find the info about 369? Not that I'm doubting you, just curious.

-tbz

http://www.landscaper.net/discharg.htm It's number 369 as it states in his prison record. I think this guy looks good! I have been talking to some family members of his....

And notice his middle name is 'LEE'

morf13 wrote:

rand wrote:

Dryman's last name was Valentine. Reminds me of the stickers inside the HC: http://www.zodiackiller.com/Stickerz.html
Was this another clue about his identity contained in the HC?

Pretty interesting

Some of those lines and the triangle shape, along with the pink color remind me of the paper the Belli letter was written on with the odd discolorations and lines. (The lighter color on the paper did not look as though it was due to fading or something spilling on it.) This guy is the one who was taught signmaking in prison as I remember. There are also images somewhere that someone thought was the "D" on the Halloween card but imo looked like the white "C'S" in different sizes that formed the whites of the eyes "peeking."

These do seem like clues and are very interesting.

Also notice the way the "N" is misformed in the column "by knife." He shapes the "N" correctly elsewhere on that same card.

A 369 discharge - makes you think of the 0-3-6-9 clue on the Mt Diablo map...

Quagmire wrote:

A 369 discharge - makes you think of the 0-3-6-9 clue on the Mt Diablo map...

Never thought of that . My favorite POI. "Jimmy", his first 3 numbers of his ss# are 369.

Interesting Morf. Also, Bujok was born in 1936 - on the 6th. Lots of 3s, 6s and 9s everywhere we look!

morf13 wrote:

..



..

Descend Polish??

-Nin