The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok

Nin wrote:

morf13 wrote:

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Descend Polish??

-Nin

Sort of fits possible clues huh...if only he could be placed in the bay area

yep. And his name is true Polish. It's not that he is of Polish descendence (DES???? just jumps out at me..) but his name is not:

http://lastnames.myheritage.com/last-name/Bujok

-Nin

Just for teh hell of it, anyone good with photoshop that can slap a pair of glasses on Bujok's photo? His chin and lips look pretty similar to the Z sketch in my opinion, and since a friend of his verified that he wore glasses, think it would be interestng to see what that looked like.

He looks like Ed helms from "The Office" and "The Hangover".
Thats what I am seeing anyway.

It's a very quick mock up and not brilliant but it gives an idea of how he would look with specs...

Quagmire wrote:

It's a very quick mock up and not brilliant but it gives an idea of how he would look with specs...

Thanks Quagmire, that is helpful! Did you make his hairline a bit more receded? It looks like he has less hair in the front of the photo that you added glasses to. There is definitely some similarity.

Yes Morf - forgot to mention that I took away a little hair at the temples to see how it looked. Bujok looks a lot more heavyset in that younger photo but then again, the angular, chiselled face in the composite doesn't really match the description.

Would give anything to see a photo of Bujok 10 years later...

Jem wrote:

Interesting, this letter from Bujok. He describes the killer as "... nothing more than an insect because I don't think an animal could commit such a vile act".

Didn't Zodiac quote something from the Mikado about social pests (pest = insect?). Also, his pal's initials are EWE (female sheep = animal).

Anyone know if Bujok is pronounced BOO-jok? One of Zodiac's favorite words.

They told me:Boo-yaak

I don't think this has been mentioned here yet. What's even more interesting than the fact Bujok wrote a letter about the film The Exorcist, is that he starts the letter in a VERY similar way to the Z letter:

BUJOK: "I have been reading and hearing..."
Z: "I saw + think..."


Also, look at the spelling of 'cradle' - 'cardle'. Of course this could just be the paper's typo.

The Bujok letter goes on to state that people are stupid to believe in such things as possession and the Z letter starts of by saying that the Exorcist is 'saterical'. In other words, Z's opinion of the film lines up perfectly with what Bujok is saying about people who take such a film seriously.

I have been looking for a free news archive.. Though the free part never seems to be true...
I want to have a look at letters to the editor about "Deer Lodge Prison"... Billings Gazette..
Does anyone know any free archieve that doesnt require creditcard details and so on?
I know myself and I bet I will screw up and get the lifetime membership for 4000 dollars.. haha...

Azazel wrote:

I have been looking for a free news archive.. Though the free part never seems to be true...
I want to have a look at letters to the editor about "Deer Lodge Prison"... Billings Gazette..
Does anyone know any free archieve that doesnt require creditcard details and so on?
I know myself and I bet I will screw up and get the lifetime membership for 4000 dollars.. haha...

Go to google and search 'news', then go into 'archives' to see old news stories, and you can search by range, example 1966-1975, etc. Many are free, some are not

Thanks for the tip.. I tried that but it didn´t yield the same massive amount as on lets say ancestry or similiar.
Well, I might have to get a month subscription. Horrible...=) 17 UDS...
If anyone have the time to Search for Deer Lodge Prison in Billings Gazette please do.
I get the feeling Bujok might have written about it under perhaps a regocnisable signature.
Perhaps I only have to vivid imagination.. haha...

tracers wrote:

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Let me say first that Bujok' s background information and his letters to the editor are stunning. Stuff that I would definitely expect to find from an individual possibly connected to the Zodiac case.

Here is a hypothetical scenario:

Edwards describes Bujok as "unfortunately" idolizing him. From what he writes we can conclude that Edwards did not like Bujok and did consider him as very dangerous. At some point Edwards may have openly displayed his dislike of Bujok, whether it was during prison time or after he was released ( depending on Bukok's whereabouts back then). Possibly Bujok had been trying to contact Edwards to the extent that he may have stalked him somewhen during the time Edwards was in CA. Bujok, out of resentment, may have started to kill and blame it on Edwards via his ciphers or other information that was privy to Edwards. Or..Bujok kills and want's Edward to read about him in the newspaper.Or.. Edwards did the killings and Bujok, stalking him, wrote the letters. Or..they were a team. (rather unlikely, why would Edwards then even mention Bujok in his book raisning attention towards him ?

Bujok, if stalking Edwards to E's dismay, might not have had a legal address ( no address..) and is difficult to place in CA for the time in question.is then, why would Edwards then even mention Bujok?

Standing out to me (I will probably be adding more to it over time):

* 3-6-9
* visual appearance of Bujok
* letters to the editor style, content, language and the fact that he wrote them ( also that he addresses readers for their approval and asks them to mail a letter)
* Roundup, Montana ( round around in the snow..)
* 4 corner cafe from Edwards, info that Bujok most likely was familiar with. 4 dots in the HC symbol
* HC symbol, Lee & Frank
* valentine stickers (stick it..)


Tracers, when was the book published? Do you have an exact date?

-Nin

Very though provoking NIN. Allow me to build briefly on your line of thought.

We see from his letter to the editor regarding the Exorcist that DB opposed belief in the supernatural. That is the opposite of what EE says in his book. Secondly, we know for a fact that EE killed couples in lover's lanes. A very specific MO although the EE killings were also sexual. I need to read more about EE to get an idea of his MO, ritual and psychology. I think this will be useful in discussing the hypotheses you've provided.

Frank Dryman/Valentine is interesting as well. It's contended that he might have killed on a number of occasions after he was released (one of his ex-wives and son-in-law went missing). He was in DL prison for 14 years (released in 1969). 4-TEEN. NIN, you'll be well aware of how often T's, E's and N's appear in the 408 encoded 340. Take a look at Dryman's tattoos on his left fingers. They really remind me of the encoded 340 between LESTO:

Nin wrote:

tracers wrote:

..

Let me say first that Bujok' s background information and his letters to the editor are stunning. Stuff that I would definitely expect to find from an individual possibly connected to the Zodiac case.

Here is a hypothetical scenario:

Edwards describes Bujok as "unfortunately" idolizing him. From what he writes we can conclude that Edwards did not like Bujok and did consider him as very dangerous. At some point Edwards may have openly displayed his dislike of Bujok, whether it was during prison time or after he was released ( depending on Bukok's whereabouts back then). Possibly Bujok had been trying to contact Edwards to the extent that he may have stalked him somewhen during the time Edwards was in CA. Bujok, out of resentment, may have started to kill and blame it on Edwards via his ciphers or other information that was privy to Edwards. Or..Bujok kills and want's Edward to read about him in the newspaper.Or.. Edwards did the killings and Bujok, stalking him, wrote the letters. Or..they were a team. (rather unlikely, why would Edwards then even mention Bujok in his book raisning attention towards him ?

Bujok, if stalking Edwards to E's dismay, might not have had a legal address ( no address..) and is difficult to place in CA for the time in question.is then, why would Edwards then even mention Bujok?

Standing out to me (I will probably be adding more to it over time):

* 3-6-9
* visual appearance of Bujok
* letters to the editor style, content, language and the fact that he wrote them ( also that he addresses readers for their approval and asks them to mail a letter)
* Roundup, Montana ( round around in the snow..)
* 4 corner cafe from Edwards, info that Bujok most likely was familiar with. 4 dots in the HC symbol
* HC symbol, Lee & Frank
* valentine stickers (stick it..)


Tracers, when was the book published? Do you have an exact date?

-Nin

Very good stuff, food for thought! Bujok would jump right to the top of the suspect list if he could be placed in Vallejo during the Z crimes.

We know that Dryman/Valentine, if he was involved in the Z crimes in anyway, could NOT have been the trigger man on 12/20/68 as he was in prison. That would leave either Bujok or Edwards, and I am not sure when Bujok got parolled, that wasnt in his report. I know one thing, known parolees are not supposed to have contact with each other and/or leave the state that they live in without permission. So if these guys hung out after prison, or if Bujok left his state, they would be risking going back to jail.

Good work, and thoughts everyone, lets keep digging.

http://lccn.loc.gov/72078412

Published in 1972 but I haven't found the exact date. That's also the year that Dryman absconded.

morf13 wrote:

We know that Dryman/Valentine, if he was involved in the Z crimes in anyway, could NOT have been the trigger man on 12/20/68 as he was in prison.

Or, it could simply be Zodiac didn't commit the LHR murders.

Thanks to Zamantha, we now know even the amount of shots fired was in the newspaper.

Good point Tahoe. There is a bit of speculation surrounding Z and LHR.

Does anyone find it interesting that in EE's book, the description of Dryman and Bujok are one after the other? How many other inmates does he describe besides those two (and Turkey Pete)? When we talk about the Deer Lodge Gang, are we just associating them because of the book? In which case there's already a link. I don't believe that Bujok spent that much time (relative) to EE and FD. Is this just coincidence or did they associate a lot with each other in DL Prison? Anyone have any idea who Turkey Pete is? The fourth dot perhaps?

Luke68 wrote:

Good point Tahoe. There is a bit of speculation surrounding Z and LHR.

Does anyone find it interesting that in EE's book, the description of Dryman and Bujok are one after the other. How many other inmates does he describe. When we talk about the Deer Lodge Gang, are we just associating them because of the book? In which case there's already a link. I don't believe that Bujok spent that much time (relative) to EE and FD. Is this just coincidence or did they associate a lot with each other in DL Prison?

Good questions, I think the only people that can answer that is those 3, and 2 of them are dead. Does anyone know the exact timeline that Dryman/Valentine was in Vallejo/Napa area after prison? At some point he left the area, wonder if it coincided with the sudden stop in Z letters? Also, didnt he get married in southern CA during that time?

morf13 wrote:

Luke68 wrote:

Good point Tahoe. There is a bit of speculation surrounding Z and LHR.

Does anyone find it interesting that in EE's book, the description of Dryman and Bujok are one after the other. How many other inmates does he describe. When we talk about the Deer Lodge Gang, are we just associating them because of the book? In which case there's already a link. I don't believe that Bujok spent that much time (relative) to EE and FD. Is this just coincidence or did they associate a lot with each other in DL Prison?

Good questions, I think the only people that can answer that is those 3, and 2 of them are dead. Does anyone know the exact timeline that Dryman/Valentine was in Vallejo/Napa area after prison? At some point he left the area, wonder if it coincided with the sudden stop in Z letters? Also, didnt he get married in southern CA during that time?

Dryman was Paroled on Jan 7, 1969 to move to family in California (don't know where but he was born in Napa)
He married in California
Disappears in California on 30 Aug, 1971, leaving behind wife and numerous step-children. According to the PI firm that found Dryman, they all went missing and suspect Dryman killed them.

Edwards working on his book in 1972.

Can't verify if this is real or fake. I found it here:

http://www.ghoulslikeus.com/Edward-W-Edwards-handwritten-letterenvelope,name,102201,item_id,ad_details

Just making sure I understand. Edwards was sentenced to 16 years in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary on May18,1962. So that eliminates him from being involved in the '63 Domiingos/Edwards case ( the name.. what an irony) without a doubt. Correct?

-Nin

Nin wrote:

Just making sure I understand. Edwards was sentenced to 16 years in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary on May18,1962. So that eliminates him from being involved in the '63 Domiingos/Edwards case ( the name.. what an irony) without a doubt. Correct?

-Nin

I think that would be correct.

Thanks, morf.

-Nin