Gareth Penn

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Twins? haha... The problem is that one can proberly find a couple of million other people that would fit nice with the composite.
And if the composite was of Penn it would seem someone would have noticed his... heavy chin.. If he was the guy at the scene.

tahoe27 wrote:

The church thing I got. And of course, Modesto & KJ. This is what I am questioning:

and if you dig in the right spot, you will find that the note he wrote about giving a "woeman" and her baby a ride was on a street that is as intresting as the time in which it happend on a day that will make you wonder, that is all im saying

??

here is som things to ponder on:

Kathleen Johns and her baby (+ one in Kathleens womb)

Attack: March 22/23, starting 11:15 PM

A Sunday attack

A Midnight attack

A Full moon attack (March 22)

A Palm Sunday attack (March 22)

A Purim attack (March 22, Jewish people’s deliverance from a royal death decree around the fourth century BCE, as told in the Book of Esther.)

A Maze attack (Maze Blvd , the name of the road were KJ was stoped by Z. A Maze can be an ocult symbol)

An almost Vernal equinox attack (It had just been March 20 )

IMHO I think we should treat Gareth Penn with respect , and refrain from school bullying comments etc. about him.

Gareth Penn has agreed to answer questions, and have kept his promise so far, and I think that this opertuinity to communicate with him is a very interesteing opertunity, nomatter what we individually thinks of his answers.

Theforeigner.

I respectfully disagree. Penn has accused O'Hare for years with absolutely nothing behind his accusations except the pseudo-intellectual, tortured logic that Penn whips up out of thin air -- just as Farmer does. What Penn has done is reprehensible in my opinion.

You catch more flies with honey....

True. But I thought we were trying to catch Z, not flies, which is all you're going to get with Penn. That's my point: what is Penn going to tell us about the Zodiac killer? He says that he believes O'Hare is Z. What more does anyone need to hear from him before they stop listening and caring. It's time to turn the page already on Penn: he's nothing but a distraction. Is and always has been.

But I commend the truly excellent work done by Zam and others on this. Too bad it's just a distraction. And too bad that any Z site you go to has O'Hare listed as a Zodiac suspect. What in the heck links O'Hare to Z? One would think there would be at least 10 (or 20 or more) damn good reasons that connect O'Hare to Z. But there are none. O. Oh, except for absurd accusations by Penn.

Troy Houghton, on the other hand, has 50 or more compelling links to Z. Yet, he's never listed as a Z suspect -- except under "other Zodiac suspects." That strikes me as absurd based on the objective facts.

rand wrote:

True. But I thought we were trying to catch Z, not flies, which is all you're going to get with Penn. That's my point: what is Penn going to tell us about the Zodiac killer? He says that he believes O'Hare is Z. What more does anyone need to hear from him before they stop listening and caring. It's time to turn the page already on Penn: he's nothing but a distraction. Is and always has been.

But I commend the truly excellent work done by Zam and others on this. Too bad it's just a distraction. And too bad that any Z site you go to has O'Hare listed as a Zodiac suspect. What in the heck links O'Hare to Z? One would think there would be at least 10 (or 20 or more) damn good reasons that connect O'Hare to Z. But there are none. O. Oh, except for absurd accusations by Penn.

Troy Houghton, on the other hand, has 50 or more compelling links to Z. Yet, he's never listed as a Z suspect -- except under "other Zodiac suspects." That strikes me as absurd based on the objective facts.

The reason, and just my opinion, is that Houghton was never linked or confirmed to be in the Vallejo area during the time of the Z crimes. Penn was. Penn has made references and statements that make some people believe he could have been Zodiac. I dont think Penn or Houghton for that matter, were Zodiac, although I looked at some materials previously presented by some regarding Penn, and I just dont see enough there to consider him a valid suspect....again, thats my own opinion, and you are welcome to consider any suspect you like.

When it comes to POI's & suspects, if you cant even place the guy in the bay area at the time of the murders, you are going to have a hard time selling him to other forum members, let alone the police. I know from experience. I also had, what I felt was a great POI, (looked like Zodiac, was a pilot & parachute rigger, had a sister in law named PATRICIA HAUTZ), but all that didnt matter....I could never link him to the Bay area, only to the L.A. area. He is now on the backburner, and I am now focusing on people that were proven to be in the bay area at the time of the killings( and even at the scene of the murder), as I feel they are more worthy of my time.

I think that is why there has been great interest in the Penn topic, because he was in the bay area, it can be confirmed

bentley wrote:

You catch more flies with honey....

I agree, that is what is so nice about this site, we don't have to bash people to get a point across. We all have are own suspects ,or shall I say most of us do. If we don't name them, we get hounded ,if we do we are accused of harassment. That is why I use the first letter of my suspects name, with his true Hispanic last name. That is like Smith or Jones is to us ,only in the Latino community. I did that also to show that if the Z wrote the desk top poem and left his initials as a calling card, it was a match to those initials.

I don't believe that O'Hare is the Zodiac either, but that just happens to be Gareth Penns poi, and we shouldn't knock him for it. There are other sites that thrive on that sort of bashing. This is not one of them, thank goodness ! Let the man answer our questions, and please lets not waste any of the 50 questions on stupid ones.
Also if we don't have something nice to say or to ask, keep it to ourselves. Pm us those sort of things, to get them off your chest. Lets keep this site Serene.

My questions to Penn had nothing to do with O'Hare or Penn as Z, they focused on his knowledge of the Z case, he knew a little bit about it. But if others find those subjects relevant I'm all for it, we're entitled to our own thoughts.

morf13 wrote:

When it comes to POI's & suspects, if you cant even place the guy in the bay area at the time of the murders, you are going to have a hard time selling him to other forum members, let alone the police.

He went underground, so I can't place him anywhere. It just strikes me as silly to dismiss 50 spot-on objective facts that link TH to Z just because I can't place him in Vallejo. As I've said before, if I knew he was living in Texas or Arkansas at the time, okay...that would be bad. But no one knows where he was. And Troy says in the Look Mag. article on him in July 1967, that he's preparing to go "underground" as a killer (he also said he had a list of victims to Harry Jones in TH's last interview). He says that he went underground after the JFK assassination in 1963. He had at least 10 aliases. Going underground is something TH was very good at.

Of course, it's fine if you don't like TH as a suspect. No problem. But I'd sure love to see you go through each of the 50 or so reasons I think TH is Z (that I've listed on the thread recently), and show me how each one is a coincidence or unconvincing. How can there be so many "coincidences"? But that's for another thread, not this one.

Azazel -

I have these questions for Mr. Penn:

1. Mr. Penn - Would you be willing to take your incredible knowledge of the Zodiac case, as well as mathematics and writing and use it to look at other possible Zodiac suspects? We know that you have a favorite suspect, i.e., Dr. O'Hare, but it would really be of assistance to us and many others if you could, just temporarily use your expertise to look at some other suspects that we can agree upon with you. Please note that we are NOT asking you to wholly endorse another suspect or to abandon your suspect. Rather, we are asking for your help in analyzing some other individuals who also merit consideration.

No hay que poner todos los huevos en una sola canasta...

2. Mr. Penn - As you vehemently state, you never met, corresponded with nor had any sort of encounter with Dr. O'Hare before your analyses which concluded that he and only he was the Zodiac killer, what was the single "turning point" that has continued to convince you beyond a reasonable doubt that he and only he could have committed these crimes?

3. Do you or did you ever know a Dr. Pessis, and what was the nature of your relationship with him (meaning, business, social, etc.)? Do you know if Dr. O'Hare was friends with or ever visited Mr. Pessis?

Thank you for your time.

rand wrote:

I think Penn looks like the rare dorkus-maximus, a pseudo-intellectual creature that died out in the 1980s from bad vibes it got from reading its own books.

I thought we were trying to catch Z, not flies, which is all you're going to get with Penn. That's my point: what is Penn going to tell us about the Zodiac killer? He says that he believes O'Hare is Z. What more does anyone need to hear from him before they stop listening and caring. It's time to turn the page already on Penn: he's nothing but a distraction. Is and always has been.

But I commend the truly excellent work done by Zam and others on this. Too bad it's just a distraction. And too bad that any Z site you go to has O'Hare listed as a Zodiac suspect. What in the heck links O'Hare to Z? One would think there would be at least 10 (or 20 or more) damn good reasons that connect O'Hare to Z. But there are none. O. Oh, except for absurd accusations by Penn.

Troy Houghton, on the other hand, has 50 or more compelling links to Z. Yet, he's never listed as a Z suspect -- except under "other Zodiac suspects." That strikes me as absurd based on the objective facts.

Bashing other readers/posters/subjects -- and then pitching your own POI under your own anonymous, risk-free nick -- is an old routine that has helped kill other boards. It pisses people off and stirs up animosity because it sounds pompous and arrogant, especially coming from someone who won't use his/her own real identity, but insists on identifying other people and naming names as pet POIs.

If you have no interest in Gareth Penn, and you think him a "maximus pseudo-dork distraction," please refrain from posting here. I, for one, couldn't care the hell less about anyone named Troy Houghton, but you won't find me bashing that person -- or opinions about him/her/it -- on the Troy Houghton thread.

I agree, we should try to keep this thread about Gareth Penn! Lets all please do that

Azazel wrote:

And by the way, ask what GZ 4216 is...

Gareth loves obscure cinema-nalia and GZ 4216 almost certainly refers to the 1946 British detective comedy Hue and Cry

It's all about codes and criminals and such -- you know, the kinds of things Gareth enjoyed when he was G the Z.

Wikipedia entry on Hue and Cry

I'd be curious to know what it would take for GP to conclude that MO was not the Zodiac. GP has mentioned prints and the IAFIS database, if MO were to (or perhaps he has) submit his prints would that do it? How about DNA?

MikeM wrote:

rand wrote:

I think Penn looks like the rare dorkus-maximus, a pseudo-intellectual creature that died out in the 1980s from bad vibes it got from reading its own books.

I thought we were trying to catch Z, not flies, which is all you're going to get with Penn. That's my point: what is Penn going to tell us about the Zodiac killer? He says that he believes O'Hare is Z. What more does anyone need to hear from him before they stop listening and caring. It's time to turn the page already on Penn: he's nothing but a distraction. Is and always has been.

But I commend the truly excellent work done by Zam and others on this. Too bad it's just a distraction. And too bad that any Z site you go to has O'Hare listed as a Zodiac suspect. What in the heck links O'Hare to Z? One would think there would be at least 10 (or 20 or more) damn good reasons that connect O'Hare to Z. But there are none. O. Oh, except for absurd accusations by Penn.

Troy Houghton, on the other hand, has 50 or more compelling links to Z. Yet, he's never listed as a Z suspect -- except under "other Zodiac suspects." That strikes me as absurd based on the objective facts.

Bashing other readers/posters/subjects -- and then pitching your own POI under your own anonymous, risk-free nick -- is an old routine that has helped kill other boards. It pisses people off and stirs up animosity because it sounds pompous and arrogant, especially coming from someone who won't use his/her own real identity, but insists on identifying other people and naming names as pet POIs.

If you have no interest in Gareth Penn, and you think him a "maximus pseudo-dork distraction," please refrain from posting here. I, for one, couldn't care the hell less about anyone named Troy Houghton, but you won't find me bashing that person -- or opinions about him/her/it -- on the Troy Houghton thread.

Is your real name MikeM? "Bashing other readers/posters/" Where do you see that? I have never bashed a reader or poster. I bashed Penn.
"but you won't find me bashing that person -- or opinions about him/her/it -- on the Troy Houghton thread"
Seems like you're bashing me, right? Have I bashed you or anyone else here? No.
You couldn't care less about anyone named Troy Houghton? Where have you been? You haven't read the thread, don't know anything about Troy Houghton, but you "couldn't care the hell less." No wonder this case is still open after all these years.

Actully I really find Penn and his thinking very interesting. Do I "think" he is the Z?? What's with that think word. For me, he's still in the gray area....meaning very interesting to learn more about. This is the time. SO, lets keep this thread mainly to discuss the pros and cons of Penn being the Z. There is SO much information that he has given us in the past and now...we are getting more. My thoughts, if he is NOT the Z.... he still seemed to be privy to some information. Let's use this valuable time that he is offering us, and look and discuss as much as possible. And also Gareth made that offer for more questions. I have recieved a few, and would sincerely like a few more..... So please post them or PM them to me.
******************************************
Also I almost did not post this, but reconsidered, as this was sent to me tonight by Jan H. in reply to a poster at Toms. This poster seemed upset....as of course, I posted this information here at our site first.

**************************************
Zam, Please post this: To Heli001 and all on differing sites,,,,,,,,,,

This Item "The jig is up" is my request from Mr Penn to me to Zam,,, that is it. I sent a copy to Chris Farmer, not to post, but he did, fine. You saw it right? It is okay, but Zam is trying to keep it organized, she has sick family to care for, not snide remarks from anyone, she felt she was doing all of you a service to pass on info, that she asked if he would do some questions, he offered 50, that is a lot of work I would say, to a crowd of internet info seekers.This was not for me - but for all of you. I really have no need to go on line like this at all.
We are both the messenger, and it will end soon, with insight into Mr Penns lengthy information. Zam decided the only way to be fair to all was to break it up in Four postings, due to length, and post to as many sites as possible, several that time would allow with her busy life. I certainly appreciate her, and so does Mr Penn and many many posters
.
I hope you also do understand. The mix up came when Farmer did not know, and posted it all, and that was really okay too. Lots of information, some dry humor and we are fortunate for this information. Take it or leave it- simple. Sincerely, Jan Hendrickson

MikeM wrote:

Azazel wrote:

And by the way, ask what GZ 4216 is...

Gareth loves obscure cinema-nalia and GZ 4216 almost certainly refers to the 1946 British detective comedy Hue and Cry

It's all about codes and criminals and such -- you know, the kinds of things Gareth enjoyed when he was G the Z.

Wikipedia entry on Hue and Cry

Hi Mike, here is somthing to add to your files if you dont have it already:


I found that Girard Pessis´s wife, who Gareth Penn described as "goddess of a wife Maeve", attened Pacific High School San Bernardino, CA.
The very same HS that possible writer of the "Patricia Hautz" letter, and possible Zodiac suspect MLZ, attened. They all 3 were born within the timeframe 1944-1947.

California Marriage Index, 1960-1985
about Girard C Pessis
Name: Girard C Pessis
Age: 23
Est. Birth: abt 1943
Spouse Name: Maeve M Morrison
Spouse Age: 22
Date: 20 Dec 1966
Location: Monterey





http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/hs_pacific_ca/1962/Page_176.html


Pacific High School - Pacificana Yearbook (San Bernardino, CA)
- Class of 1962

MAEVE M. MORRISON: Rally Committee, Les Amis Elites Secretary, CSF Secretory-Treasurer, NHS, ICC, Student Council, Academic Editor of Pacificano, Editor-in-Chief of Pacificano, Secretary of Junior Class, Historian of Sobobans, Chaplain of K.D. ' s, Homecoming Queen Candidate, Prom Decorations Chairman, National Merit Finalist




Maeve M Pessis (nee Morrison):
Born September 1944.
Attended Pacific High School San Bernardino, CA.
She married Girard C Pessis, Decemeber 20, 1966.
Maeve and Girard Pessis shared address with Gareth Penn on Webster St in Berkeley during the 1968-69.

Mary Patricia Hautz.
Born March 1947
Attended Pacific High School in nearby San Bernardino, CA
Have identical name as the person who wrote the "Patricia Hautz" letter Nov 1, 1967

MLZ
Born September 1946.
Attended Pacific High School inSan Bernardino, CA
Possible Zodiac suspect who named himself Zodiac in Pacific high school . He was pictured in the 1964 Pacific High yearbook

Wow; that's very interesting...

Hi-

I have to agree that the worst thing a poster can do is to take a thread about some suspect or POI and hijack it to say, "Look at what I have on my suspect." If you have something to say about your suspect, say it on the thread devoted to that suspect, not on someone else's.

Now, I had to defend myself on this thread by mentioning that I was NOT basing something I said in reposne to Tahoe on any specific physical attribute of Mr. X, but I did not say anything more about my own resaearch than was necessary to make the point that I was arguing in general and not about any specific person.

Peeing wars kill threads.

Mike

rand wrote:

Is your real name MikeM? "Bashing other readers/posters/" Where do you see that? I have never bashed a reader or poster. I bashed Penn.
"but you won't find me bashing that person -- or opinions about him/her/it -- on the Troy Houghton thread" Seems like you're bashing me, right? Have I bashed you or anyone else here? No. You couldn't care less about anyone named Troy Houghton? Where have you been? You haven't read the thread, don't know anything about Troy Houghton, but you "couldn't care the hell less." No wonder this case is still open after all these years.

You're bashing posters and readers when you say disparaging things about the topic of their interest. What you've done here, for instance, isn't critical thinking, it's just an ad hominem slam: "I thought we were trying to catch Z, not flies, which is all you're going to get with Penn...What more does anyone need to hear from him before they stop listening and caring. It's time to turn the page already on Penn: he's nothing but a distraction. Is and always has been. But I commend the truly excellent work done by Zam and others on this. Too bad it's just a distraction..."

Gareth Penn has been of great interest to Zodiacologists for years, and I for one couldn't disagree more that he's a distraction. But I'm not on here insisting that people pay attention to him, nor attacking their subjects of interest as a waste of time.

I don't know if you all noticed this, but Zam -- who's been good enough to host this forum and post all this information -- got a nasty little bashing from Mike Butterfield, aka ZSearcher after she posted this Penn information. I mean, telling her to get off the Internet and get back to her sick mother?? You've got to be kidding me!

Hostile people hiding behind nicks to pitch pet POIs are forum killers.

My real name is MikeM and I read the Troy Houghton thread until I became disinterested in it. I have no interest in debating him or reading anymore about him, but I'm not going to tell the people who are interested in him that he's a distraction and that they should stop listening and caring about him. That kind of nastiness won't solve anything or make anyone more interested in your topic.

...sorry to interrupt all of this fussing, but how do I get my questions, above, to Mr. Penn?

Oh, and I would like to add, that Z killer or not (and I don't think he is), his neighbors seem to be fearful of him, for while his property is "open", the neighbors ALL have fences, the most curious thing being that his direct neighbor across the street (plain line of sight from his living room window), has their home completely fenced with a high fence (that you cannot see through) on all sides including the ENTIRE FRONT YARD...My guess is these poor people have gone through some interesting times with him...

Zabagliona wrote:

....his neighbors seem to be fearful of him, for while his property is "open", the neighbors ALL have fences, the most curious thing being that his direct neighbor across the street (plain line of sight from his living room window), has their home completely fenced with a high fence (that you cannot see through) on all sides including the ENTIRE FRONT YARD...My guess is these poor people have gone through some interesting times with him...

Do you live near him or know any of these neighbors?

Nope. I am just making an observation having seen a pic of his house and yard.

It is very unusual for someone to have an impermeable (cannot see through it at all) fence around their ENTIRE PROPERTY including the front yard; the only thing being unfenced is the driveway. In fact, a lot of cities make you get special permission to do this....The house is in direct line of sight from Penn's living room window...also the other neighbors do have fences too, albeit the more normal ones...

The only time i´ve been irritated on this forum was when Rand commented on another thread.
Because it was rude and had no use good or bad.
I let it slip, because this should be a forum where everyone treats each other (and their information and POI etc) with respect.
Rand, you have made great work on Troy. Let those intrested contribute to that thread.
If youre not intrested in the material in the thread or you if you have some constructive critic, make it.
Just because you believe you are the best researcher and authority on the Zodiac doesnt neccisary means thats true.
Perhaps you have no intention to irritate or behave like you have all the answers.
But since its your words, its your responsibilty.
Since this thread is about Penn and you have made your opint already I suppose you wont be reading this. Right?
And I wont take the time and effort to start looking for that particular comment or remark since this subject is already done.