Gareth Penn

I agree TF. Thank you Zamantha for all your efforts!! You are a go-getter that's for sure.

Great job to everyone that was able to get this info from Penn. I must say that I think Penn was kind to take the time and make the effort to answer the questions. I also would love to see the photos from the late 60's of himself that he is sending, both pre-shave, and post-shave! Hope they will be posted here soon.

A couple things stood out here to me.

1- Penn seems to deny any friendship with Raymond Grant, and that is pretty interesting. Maybe MikeM can state his opinion about this.

2- Regarding Ken Narlow's involvement with Penn- Penn seems to think Narlow didnt take him seriously, or something along those lines. Back in May, 2009- I asked Ken Narlow directly about his Penn experience, and this was his reply to me (along with a little info on Rick Marshall to boot):


"Mike..Re Gareth Penn. My partner and I had only one encounter with Gareth Penn. He came to our office one day and I'm not really sure why it's been so long. After listening to his gibberish for about an hour I think we asked him to leave as we were pretty busy. I think we gave him a cursory look but it didn't come to much. I understand this latest
drama brought about by Debra Perez mentioned Gareth Penn as being an accomplice with her and her father when she went on this killing spree. I believe SFPD is following up on Debra Perez trying
to identify Paul Stine's glasses. I worked with Ms Perez for about 6 months but she wasn't too truthful with me.I turned my notes over to the Napa County Sheriff's Dept in Feb 09.Napa Police never had any direct involement with the Zodiac case other than to have rec'd the phone call from the killer. Rick Marshall was a strange one. He was considered a pretty fair suspect at the time. I was getting some pretty good inside info on him. He ended up in a medical facility in Sacramento and died apprx 6 months ago.I req'd two Napa Sheriff's detectives interview him on his death bed. He emphatically denied that he was the Zodiac. So much for that. We were unable to obtain anything tangible on Marshall. No weapons, his teletype mack did'nt match, handprinting was only fair, prints didn't match either. He was dormant up until his death.Thatsall for now, Ken"

Photos provided to us by Mr. Penn....thanks Mr. Penn!

Penn in 1967....gotta admit, he does look a little bit like a certain sketch


Penn in 1968


The following are documents Penn provided to show he was where he said he was, when he said he was. Includes, w2, military paper, and Polk phonebook listing:

A little mystery solved, remember this thread https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/zodiac-on-the-internet-f41/comment-on-trutv-t76.htm on here about someone called Sub Zero leaving a message. Well Gareth has answered it.


We met in the fall of 1972, when I started working at Vallejo City Library. I was in the reference department and she in the circulation department. The only reason I knew her at all was that we were co-workers. At the time I met her, she had been living for a couple of years already with her future husband. I didn’t introduce them; I married them, i.e. I officiated at their wedding in my capacity as minister of the Universal Life Church. By that time, they had been living together for six or seven years. If you check her marriage certificate (another public record for you to dig up), you will find my signature on it as the person who solemnized their union, which would have taken place in, I believe, 1976 or 1977.

I think Gareth likes to publicize himself, I see he is still writing his third book. I don't think he minds the attention from Opord and everyone else in fact he encourages it. Remember it's better to be talked about than not talked about at all. He doesn't know who Crabtree/Phillips is, yeah right. lol

Is Gareth Penn the Zodiac = NO. He would just like everyone to think he is.

Edit: Thanks Zam for taking the time to do this BTW. Sub Zero (My, I wonder who that could be) was clearly talking about this 'minister being the one who abducted KJ. GP doesn't fit her description at all. Fingerprints, well I personally think Gareth's are all over the Internet, talk about self publicity.

This was the message Penn sent regarding his little Q & A:

"My answers to the questions Zam sent are at gz4216.blogspot.com, and she can download them from there. I attach the jpg files that go with it, and you would oblige me by forwarding this e-mail with attachments to her.
I feel that a lot of these questions were wasted (e.g. “Coke or Pepsi?”). I set a limit of 50; if these answers prompt relevant and reasonably intelligent followup questions, I will entertain an equal number of those, if Zam wants to field them.
Thanks,
Gareth"

By the way, I thought the COKE OR PEPSI was funny...to whoever asked that, but I guess he doesnt have the same sense of humor.

Gareth Penn wrote:

I have never met Arthur Leigh Allen, George Gordon, or any member of the Ferrin family. I used to work at the library in Vallejo, which is right across Mare Island Strait from Mare Island Naval Shipyard, so I saw it on the other side of the water every working day from October 1972 to August 1979. I never met Richard Gaikowski and don’t have any idea who he is or was. I don’t have any new information about the Zodiac case. I think TIMES 17 is out of date; after publishing it, I figured out how to use the computer as an analytical tool and now have what I think is far more interesting material; I am working on a second book whose working title is The third knife, but I can’t predict when it will appear. If you still want to read what I have to say, I would recommend the next book. It will be a lot cheaper and a whole lot more interesting.

Is it me or the two sentences (above in red) are self-contradictory?

How can Gareth write a new book if he doesn't have any new information? Are we to believe he moved the case aside all those years after Times 17?

morf13 wrote:

This was the message Penn sent regarding his little Q & A:

"My answers to the questions Zam sent are at gz4216.blogspot.com, and she can download them from there. I attach the jpg files that go with it, and you would oblige me by forwarding this e-mail with attachments to her.
I feel that a lot of these questions were wasted (e.g. “Coke or Pepsi?”). I set a limit of 50; if these answers prompt relevant and reasonably intelligent followup questions, I will entertain an equal number of those, if Zam wants to field them.
Thanks,
Gareth"

By the way, I thought the COKE OR PEPSI was funny...to whoever asked that, but I guess he doesnt have the same sense of humor.

Ah, yes I have the privy of knowing who ask that an all the questions. Makes the answers more interesting as I kind of understand where the questions are coming from. I left the Coke Pepsi question in to help break the ice.
As far as the link, gz4216.blogspot.com I have tried to get the direction link posted a few times last nite. Could not make it happen. I have a couple computer wiz friends to see if they can help. Reading the questions in his blog forum are a much easier way to do this.
I thank Penn for working with us, and Jan H. as our friendship grew this last year....so did the trust. She is in this of course to prove her Dad never knew Penn, which is something I feel all of us here know and believe.
Looks like Penn is open to more questions. So, bring them on... You don't get a chance like this everyday!
Also, remember he did live in Vallejo, so he may be able to answer any Vallejo type questions. I know when I looked at the 2 pages he sent from the old Vallejo directory...I recognized two people I knew (Not related to the Z case) and it brought back so many memories of that old phone book :-) Deju vu for sure.

He mentioned some new stuff in answering one of my questions. This is EXACTLY the type of thing I referred to earlier regarding Times 17. So what he is saying here (one of the things) is that Zodiac did the LHR killings in December 1968 because it was the Hebrew calendar year 5729, which is the angle in degrees of one radian. That was the motive for murder? He goes on to suggest a letter was postmarked in July because of Morse code relating to radians.

Maybe he's right, or maybe it's a joke...in either case, this is what I would expect from a new book.

Cheers to Zamantha! And thank you Mr. Penn.


It has been stated that your Zodiac radian theory is bunk because the angle between the Pacific Heights crime and both of the Vallejo crimes is closer to 60 degrees than one radian. Do you feel that Zodiac figured this was close enough?

The accuracy of measurement depends in large measure on which map you use. I used the 1970 Bay Area map sheets published by the U.S. Geological Survey. Here are a couple of observations I wish I had had in time to include in the book, because I find them very interesting. The degree-value of the radian is 57.29…, and the Bay Area chapter of the Zodiac’s career began in Hebrew calendar year 5729 (December 1968). He uses the word “radian” in a letter postmarked in July. The word JULY written in Morse Code and read in base two, with a decimal point between U and L (0111 001.0100 1011) is 57.29…, replicating the degree-value of the rad to eight decimal places. Every date in July expresses the same number accurately to at least nine decimal places. The closest possible match in July is JULY 23 (0111 001.0100 1011 10111), which is accurate to thirteen decimal places.

FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR MR. PENN, Part 1

Zam: Please forward these questions to Mr. Penn for follow up. While I appreciate his answers, they are simply riddled with inconsistencies regarding verifiable facts.


Q: Can you verify your address at 1708 Lincoln Street in Berkeley between roughly July 1969 to late August 1970? I have information indicating that a Joel Jaffe lived there in that year.

Gareth Penn: I am sending copies of Mary Ann’s W-2 form for 1970, my W-2s for 1970 and 1971 and a U.S. Army Reserve Letter Order from October 1970, all addressed to one or the other of us at 1708 Lincoln Street, as well as a page from the 1970 Polk city directory for Vallejo...

1) Is Mr. Penn able to confirm this address with an independent written verification or not? He sent you what he sent me -- records from 1970 that do not include 1969. I do have written verification that Joel Jaffe lived at 1708 Lincoln Street in Berkeley during that time frame, but that Mr. Penn moved in around August 1970.

2) Why does his 1970 W2 say he was "Single?"

3) Regarding the alleged Nov. 1969 burglar incident, please provide the first and last name of the burglar (since you testified against him). My research associate and I have been unable to confirm the burglar story. Neither Berkeley PD nor the courts can provide records of it without the defendant's name.

4) How did Mr. Penn learn that Girard Pessis, his upstairs neighbor at 2804 Webster Street who says they rarely spoke, was a high school classmate of Michael O'Hare? How did that come up after so many years? Did Mike tell Gareth? Did Girard tell Gareth?

5) On August 1, 2009, Mr. Penn sent me an email claiming he first met Madeleine Borges in 1978 at the Solano County Library, in the staff lunchroom, as he put it sarcastically, "nine years after I committed the Zodiac murders." As you all know, he's repeatedly harped on the 1978 date. Gareth told me he "commiserated" with Madeleine because her husband, Bob Stiglitz, was cheating on her and she was in a mind to do some cheating, too.

But now, this is what he says about Madeleine Borges, the niece of woman who discovered Zodiac victims’ corpses at Lake Herman Road:

We met in the fall of 1972, when I started working at Vallejo City Library. I officiated at their wedding [Bob and Madeleine] in my capacity as minister of the Universal Life Church.

Why was he not truthful about meeting her so much earlier? And why does Bob Stiglitz say that Gareth introduced them, something that would have taken place even earlier, around the time Madeleine was in high school with David Faraday?

Don't know if this has been posted, here is the blog link

http://gz4216.blogspot.com/

MikeM wrote:

FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR MR. PENN, Part 1

Zam: Please forward these questions to Mr. Penn for follow up. While I appreciate his answers, they are simply riddled with inconsistencies regarding verifiable facts.


Q: Can you verify your address at 1708 Lincoln Street in Berkeley between roughly July 1969 to late August 1970? I have information indicating that a Joel Jaffe lived there in that year.

Gareth Penn: I am sending copies of Mary Ann’s W-2 form for 1970, my W-2s for 1970 and 1971 and a U.S. Army Reserve Letter Order from October 1970, all addressed to one or the other of us at 1708 Lincoln Street, as well as a page from the 1970 Polk city directory for Vallejo...

1) Is Mr. Penn able to confirm this address with an independent written verification or not? He sent you what he sent me -- records from 1970 that do not include 1969. I do have written verification that Joel Jaffe lived at 1708 Lincoln Street in Berkeley during that time frame, but that Mr. Penn moved in around August 1970.

2) Why does his 1970 W2 say he was "Single?"

3) Regarding the alleged Nov. 1969 burglar incident, please provide the first and last name of the burglar (since you testified against him). My research associate and I have been unable to confirm the burglar story. Neither Berkeley PD nor the courts can provide records of it without the defendant's name.

4) How did Mr. Penn learn that Girard Pessis, his upstairs neighbor at 2804 Webster Street who says they rarely spoke, was a high school classmate of Michael O'Hare? How did that come up after so many years? Did Mike tell Gareth? Did Girard tell Gareth?

5) On August 1, 2009, Mr. Penn sent me an email claiming he first met Madeleine Borges in 1978 at the Solano County Library, in the staff lunchroom, as he put it sarcastically, "nine years after I committed the Zodiac murders." As you all know, he's repeatedly harped on the 1978 date. Gareth told me he "commiserated" with Madeleine because her husband, Bob Stiglitz, was cheating on her and she was in a mind to do some cheating, too.

But now, this is what he says about Madeleine Borges, the niece of woman who discovered Zodiac victims’ corpses at Lake Herman Road:

We met in the fall of 1972, when I started working at Vallejo City Library. I officiated at their wedding [Bob and Madeleine] in my capacity as minister of the Universal Life Church.

Why was he not truthful about meeting her so much earlier? And why does Bob Stiglitz say that Gareth introduced them, something that would have taken place even earlier, around the time Madeleine was in high school with David Faraday?

They were married June 28, 1976 in Solano County.

Thebes wrote:

Gareth Penn wrote:

I have never met Arthur Leigh Allen, George Gordon, or any member of the Ferrin family. I used to work at the library in Vallejo, which is right across Mare Island Strait from Mare Island Naval Shipyard, so I saw it on the other side of the water every working day from October 1972 to August 1979. I never met Richard Gaikowski and don’t have any idea who he is or was. I don’t have any new information about the Zodiac case. I think TIMES 17 is out of date; after publishing it, I figured out how to use the computer as an analytical tool and now have what I think is far more interesting material; I am working on a second book whose working title is The third knife, but I can’t predict when it will appear. If you still want to read what I have to say, I would recommend the next book. It will be a lot cheaper and a whole lot more interesting.

Is it me or the two sentences (above in red) are self-contradictory?

How can Gareth write a new book if he doesn't have any new information? Are we to believe he moved the case aside all those years after Times 17?

Maybe the book isnt about Zodiac.

I will admit it twas I who asked Coke or Pepsi. Just joking around. Gotta love Zam for throwing it out there. lol So did he not answer question 51 because of it?

I give Penn credit for showing everyone that stuff. I would have told everyone to kiss my you-know-what, but that's what sort of makes him interesting.

Solar Pons wrote:

A little mystery solved, remember this thread https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/zodiac-on-the-internet-f41/comment-on-trutv-t76.htm on here about someone called Sub Zero leaving a message. Well Gareth has answered it.

What the heck is "Sub's" post supposed to mean anyway? Bizzare? Is he talking about a "maze" or is "132" supposed to have some significance? Why not just say what the **** you are talking about?!

Sub Zero was trying to imply that the Zodiac was a Minister at the ULC. Which Gareth has now admitted he is. Quite honestly it appears that you turn up (You would have before the Internet) and ask to become a Minister and Voila. Ta Da you are one. It was funny reading a bit about them on the Wiki page where Abbie Hoffman I believe wrote about it in one of his books giving the impression that if you joined you would not have to pay Income Tax. I wonder how many joined up because of that.

Nowadays instead of all that difficult Theology nonsense to study for a few years at Uni, 72 hours after filling your online forms in and hey presto, Baptise your nephew at the weekend. I see drips and drabs of stuff all over the place from unusually named individuals indicating that Gareth is the Zodiac, I call them his cheerleaders. They do nothing about it because it is nonsense.

And he wants more questions, sorry I'm bored of him already. I used to find him amusing and a tad eccentric, now it appears it has gone a little to his head. Delusions of Grandeur I call it.

Oh and Tahoe, Coke or Pepsi the best question there

The church thing I got. And of course, Modesto & KJ. This is what I am questioning:

and if you dig in the right spot, you will find that the note he wrote about giving a "woeman" and her baby a ride was on a street that is as intresting as the time in which it happend on a day that will make you wonder, that is all im saying

??

Sorry Tahoe, my fault I misunderstood. I think he is possibly talking about Paradise Road (Bloody long road to be digging up) which is nearby the Headquarters of the Church and also the day Kathleen was abducted Bently posted had been Palm Sunday. I felt he was indicating that this person had been to a Palm Sunday Meeting at the church and on the way home presumebly decided to do the decent thing by way of terrifying KJ.

Edit: Or possibly the bomb is hidden there? He drove around lots of roads including around Tracy with KJ, which one he is reffering to as there is also a Sierra Ave/drive as well, we can only guess at.

Edit 2: My God did you see Kiuku's comments bbrrr it must be chilly being all alone over at Bystander she's branched out into the comments section, is nowhere safe.

This is what bugs me. The insinuating crap. Just say what the BLEEP you are talking about or zip-it!

Now we have to try and figure out what the heck this guy is talking about? No thanks. lol

Sorry, back to Penn. Or were we on Penn??

****

Edit regarding edit 2: Yes and WOW. Bizarre stuff.

Feed Penn to Kiuku can you imagine THOSE questions. Run Gareth run

Zam thanks for your work on this.

I have a follow up comment and questions for Penn.

AK - Mr. Penn you stated you did not know the bathroom wall message I made reference to in the murder of Joan Webster. Here is a media account of it:

A Harvard Zodiac cipher?

In 1990, the Beverly
Times reported police found
a Zodiac-style circleand-
cross symbol and a
Zodiac-style cipher on a
Harvard bathroom wall in
1983, predicting Webster's
body would be found near
Peabody or Lynn.

Police reportedly searched
Lynn and Peabody but found
nothing. Webster remained
undiscovered until her
skeleton emerged two towns
north of Peabody in the soil
of Hamilton.

See http://jamesobrien.cc/index.php?page=stories&family=journalism&category=BostonNOW-col-_Unsolved_Mysteries&display=99

(Mr. Penn is quoted in this article).

AK - Of course this could have been a hoax. But if we think of a killer perhaps not too familiar with greater Boston, driving around at night with a body, dumping it an open area, then looking at a map, he might well be a few miles off on where he dumped the body. In that respect, this message could well be from the killer, and then it is a question of was the killer a Zodiac copycat or the Zodiac?

My question was if he knew anything more about this supposed Zodiac message and cipher, or has any thoughts on it.

My other question would be, since it is an unfortunate fact that every year there are numerous murders of young women, what led him to think Joan Webster was killed by the Zodiac?

My final question is if he is aware that Ms. Webster, being killed on November 28, 1981, was murdered on the 12th anniversary of the murder of another East Coast graduate student Betsy Aardsma at the Penn State library on November 28, 1969, and the 15th anniversary of the mailing of the confession letter in another college library murder, that of probable Zodiac victim Cheri Jo Bates.

Thank you Zam and Mr. Penn.

I wonder if mr Penn could expand on some of theese titles, and why he hasnt published them so far.

Zodiac problems Registration Number: TXu-176-361, 29Oct84

Papers relating to the impending suicide of Michael Henry O'Hare on 17 May 1989 Registration Number: TXu-354-164, 15Dec88

Papers relating to the resolution of the Zodiac matter on or about 19 February 1990 Registration Number: TXu-406-808, 13Feb90

Resolution of the Zodiac mystery on 19 September 1989 Registration Number: TXu-430-480, 1Aug90

The second power : a mathematical analysis of the letters attributed to the Zodiac murderer Registration Number: TXu-927-707, 13Dec99

Digital, two-dimensional, private language : the letters of the Zodiac murderer Registration Number: TXu-1-044-778, 18Mar02

And by the way, ask what GZ 4216 and if he has any clews about t41m4w189o951xs234e12a14v9e27e24x9x2ntwoo2xt91j2h2r32uxaxe89nry151e389. haha

...just for fun, although I do not believe Penn was the Zodiac:

...or this one, now here is is a young adult (18-22 possibly)...
but if you add a few years and a few pounds...

I think Penn looks like the rare dorkus-maximus, a pseudo-intellectual creature that died out in the 1980s from bad vibes it got from reading its own books.

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