FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987

Funny--last night I was watching a special on the Bio channel about the Manson clan and as they did a reenactment of them driving to one of the crime scenes, they zoomed in on the Lincoln symbol (circle-cross) on the hood for like 5 seconds.

I can concur with morf---seen that movie a bunch. Nothing Z about it.

I read it was set in Utah. Something else happened in Utah that year.

I will have to check this out. Could be a hidden Z clue in there somewhere.

Might also be good on a triple feature - "The Car", "Christine", "Death Proof" and top it off with "Dirty Mary and Crazy Larry".

AK Wilks wrote:

A phantom...???

A RED PHANTOM?

OR A FREEWAY PHANTOM???

?????

Now this is interesting.

Excellent work, AK and others.

I believe this deserves it's own scheduled chat discussion tonight!

This is the 1987 possible Zodiac letter, which appears to have been written by the same hand as the 1986 Zodiac letter, which Terrence Pascoe of the Cal DOJ authenticated as a real Zodiac letter. Note in particular the reference to the DEATH MACHINE. Zodiac had mentioned his BOMB as a DEATH MACHINE - but here he says he will be driving the DEATH MACHINE and refers to the film THE CAR.



I just read the report of the "Goldcatcher" at www.mk-zodiac.com. Thanks to Ricardo for putting this information out there. Most of it concerns suspect Richard Gaikowski, which I will not get into here. One thing caught my eye however. If I understand him correctly, GC makes a connection between this 1987 Zodiac letter, and the references to the DEATH MACHINE and THE CAR.

He points to the November 28, 1987 abduction and murder of a 7 year old boy named Alexander Harris (from Mountainview, CA) from the kids arcade at the Whiskey Pete's casino in Stateline, Nevada, which is right near the Nevada - California border. GC asserts that the Bonnie and Clyde "death car" as it was commonly known, was displayed there. I checked and he was right. This murder is still unsolved. A man was arrested, but it was an attempted frame up, he was found not guilty and won a million dollars in a lawsuit.

I find this mildly interesting because:

* November 28, 1966 was the day the Bates confession letter was placed in the mail; November 28 is apparently possibly mentioned in code in the possible 1969 Zodiac letter to the San Jose Police Department; November 28, 1969 Betsy Aardsma was killed in the Penn State library in a murder with many similarities to the Bates murder; November 28, 1981 Joan Webster was murdered in Boston.

* I personally could not really make any sense of why Zodiac said he would be riding around in his "death machine" or why he mentioned the B horror flick "The Car". At one point I made a note to myself to check if there were any California murders in the month prior to or after October 1987 that involved a car some how. Though not involving a car per se, this casino was famous for having a "death car" on display - a "death machine", if you will, "THE car". It is called "the death car". See http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2894 .

* I know most will tend to reject the abduction of a young boy as a possible Zodiac crime. Remember letter(s) from the Zodiac were sent claiming credit for some of the Atlanta Child Murders, and the FBI could NOT rule out the real Zodiac as being the author. Also Zodiac threatned to kill "kiddies" from a school bus. He murdered teenagers. And without going into details, I can say that a state police unit is currently seeking evidence on both the Zodiac generally and a specific Zodiac suspect with regard to abductions and murders of children with a very similar MO to this Alexander Harris murder.

* The 1987 letter threatens "kiddies", telling them to watch out on a holiday, Halloween. This boy was abducted on the Thanksgiving holiday period, and his body dumped between Xmas and New Years Eve.

* Though this happened in Nevada, it was close to the California border, the body was found on December 30, 1987 yards away from the California border and Zodiac is a suspect in the abduction and presumed murder of Nevada resident Donna Lass, also last seen at a casino.

There is a lot that does NOT fit this being a possible Z crime, and only a few things worth mentioning. And yet...

I just thought I would put this out there, and see what people think, if anything, or if anyone has an idea tending to show or disprove a possible connection.

See posts below for information on the possible 1987 Zodiac letter mentioning "death machine" and "The Car" and an unsolved murder of a young boy, Alexander Harris, on November 28, 1987, in Nevada.

Did I miss something? Is this Z related?

Repost from Page 2, Morf.

This is the 1987 possible Zodiac letter, which appears to have been written by the same hand as the 1986 Zodiac letter, which Terrence Pascoe of the Cal DOJ authenticated as a real Zodiac letter. Note in particular the reference to the DEATH MACHINE. Zodiac had mentioned his BOMB as a DEATH MACHINE - but here he says he will be driving the DEATH MACHINE and refers to the film THE CAR.



I just read the report of the "Goldcatcher" at www.mk-zodiac.com. Thanks to Ricardo for putting this information out there. Most of it concerns suspect Richard Gaikowski, which I will not get into here. One thing caught my eye however. If I understand him correctly, GC makes a connection between this 1987 Zodiac letter, and the references to the DEATH MACHINE and THE CAR.

He points to the November 28, 1987 abduction and murder of a 7 year old boy named Alexander Harris (from Mountainview, CA) from the kids arcade at the Whiskey Pete's casino in Stateline, Nevada, which is right near the Nevada - California border. GC asserts that the Bonnie and Clyde "death car" as it was commonly known, was displayed there. I checked and he was right. This murder is still unsolved. A man was arrested, but it was an attempted frame up, he was found not guilty and won a million dollars in a lawsuit.

I find this mildly interesting because:

* November 28, 1966 was the day the Bates confession letter was placed in the mail; November 28 is apparently possibly mentioned in code in the possible 1969 Zodiac letter to the San Jose Police Department; November 28, 1969 Betsy Aardsma was killed in the Penn State library in a murder with many similarities to the Bates murder; 12 years later to the day, on November 28, 1981, Harvard grad student Joan Webster was murdered in Boston; six years later to the day, Alexander Harris was abducted on November 28, 1987.

* I personally could not really make any sense of why Zodiac said he would be riding around in his "death machine" or why he mentioned the B horror flick "The Car". At one point I made a note to myself to check if there were any California murders in the month prior to or after October 1987 that involved a car some how. Though not involving a car per se, this casino was famous for having a "death car" on display - a "death machine", if you will, "THE car". It is called "the death car". See http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2894 .

* I know most will tend to reject the abduction of a young boy as a possible Zodiac crime. Remember letter(s) from the Zodiac were sent claiming credit for some of the Atlanta Child Murders, and the FBI could NOT rule out the real Zodiac as being the author. Also Zodiac threatned to kill "kiddies" from a school bus. He murdered teenagers. And without going into details, I can say that a state police unit is currently seeking evidence on both the Zodiac generally and a specific Zodiac suspect with regard to abductions and murders of children with a very similar MO to this Alexander Harris murder.

* The 1987 letter threatens "kiddies", telling them to watch out on a holiday, Halloween 10/31/87). This boy was abducted on the Thanksgiving holiday period 11/28/87), and his body dumped between Xmas and New Years Eve (12/30/87).

* Though this happened in Nevada, it was close to the California border, the body was found on December 30, 1987 yards away from the California border and Zodiac is a suspect in the abduction and presumed murder of Nevada resident Donna Lass, also last seen at a casino.

There is a lot that does NOT fit this being a possible Z crime, and only a few things worth mentioning. And yet...

I just thought I would put this out there, and see what people think, if anything, or if anyone has an idea tending to prove or disprove a possible connection.

Ak quote:
"Drawings released last month of the kidnap suspect show a 5-foot-7 to 5-foot-9 man weighing 160 to 175 pounds, with straight, collar-length blond hair. He was wearing silver, wire-rim glasses, a brown Members Only-type jacket and dark trousers. The second drawing shows a 6-foot man, 170 pounds, with sandy blond hair and wearing round, wire-rim glasses."
Can anyone get a hold of those drawings? That would be interesting.

Azazel wrote:

Ak quote:
"Drawings released last month of the kidnap suspect show a 5-foot-7 to 5-foot-9 man weighing 160 to 175 pounds, with straight, collar-length blond hair. He was wearing silver, wire-rim glasses, a brown Members Only-type jacket and dark trousers. The second drawing shows a 6-foot man, 170 pounds, with sandy blond hair and wearing round, wire-rim glasses."
Can anyone get a hold of those drawings? That would be interesting.

Yes I would also like to see those drawings.

The height and weight are generally consistent with the Mageau, Johns and LB girls Zodiac descriptions.

They are also a general match for the descriptions of several other unsolved crimes from that era, including the May 4, 1986 murder of Janelle Cruz in Irvine, Orange County, California, by the ONS. A murder, by the way, which happened two days before the May 6, 1986 possible Zodiac letter was sent! Here we have a murder within one month of this October 1987 possible Zodiac letter. Maybe all this is just a chain of weird coincidences.

In any event, it would be interesting to see the drawings. They might help to rule in or rule out the possibility of involvement of Zodiac or other persons.

Here is a sketch of the kidnapped boy, the suspect and, published Dec 24, 1987.
(More info in the link)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GBQpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0YMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7163,3582036&dq=alexander-harris&hl=en







Here is a Dec 13, 1987 newsreport that says that FBI revised the sketch/sketches, so I belive the one I posted is the last sketch and that sketch that should be most valid.
(I can´t open the full newsreport due you have to pay for it)



San Jose Mercury News : FBI ISSUES REVISED SKETCH OF SUSPECT …
$2.95 - San Jose Mercury News - NewsBank - Dec 13, 1987
The FBI has issued a new sketch of the man suspected of abducting 7yearold Alexander Harris of Mountain View from a casino near Las Vegas ...


1. San Jose Mercury News (CA) - December 13, 1987 - 4B Local

FBI ISSUES REVISED SKETCH OF SUSPECT IN KIDNAPPING
The FBI has issued a new sketch of the man suspected of abducting 7-year-old Alexander Harris of Mountain View from a casino near Las Vegas. The description is essentially the same as before except the man is now believed to be about an inch taller, have thinner hair and a quarter-sized birthmark on the right side of his forehead. The FBI office in Las Vegas, which has been investigating the case since Alexander disappeared Nov. 27, said the person they're looking for...
>> Purchase complete article, of 168 words




The sketch made me think of D B Cooper:

Theforeigner wrote:

Here is a sketch of the kidnapped boy, the suspect and, published Dec 24, 1987.
(More info in the link)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GBQpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0YMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7163,3582036&dq=alexander-harris&hl=en







Here is a Dec 13, 1987 newsreport that says that FBI revised the sketch/sketches, so I belive the one I posted is the last sketch and that sketch that should be most valid.
(I can´t open the full newsreport due you have to pay for it)



San Jose Mercury News : FBI ISSUES REVISED SKETCH OF SUSPECT …
$2.95 - San Jose Mercury News - NewsBank - Dec 13, 1987
The FBI has issued a new sketch of the man suspected of abducting 7yearold Alexander Harris of Mountain View from a casino near Las Vegas ...


1. San Jose Mercury News (CA) - December 13, 1987 - 4B Local

FBI ISSUES REVISED SKETCH OF SUSPECT IN KIDNAPPING
The FBI has issued a new sketch of the man suspected of abducting 7-year-old Alexander Harris of Mountain View from a casino near Las Vegas. The description is essentially the same as before except the man is now believed to be about an inch taller, have thinner hair and a quarter-sized birthmark on the right side of his forehead. The FBI office in Las Vegas, which has been investigating the case since Alexander disappeared Nov. 27, said the person they're looking for...
>> Purchase complete article, of 168 words




The sketch made me think of D B Cooper:

Wow, he has a similar overall appearance to the Zodiac sketch. Hard to say since it was almost 20 years later. How far from Las Vegas was the body found? And also, was the kid molested or anything?

Denmark (?) comes through again!

Thanks TheForeigner!

I would still like to see that FIRST sketch...even though the FBI thinks the second was better, they could be wrong. The indication was the first sketch had collar length blonde hair! That is not what we see here. Weird...different guy, or was he wearing a wig? That birthmark look fake me to me, it looks like a flag on a pole. More weirdness.

Morf, nothing I have seen so far talks about molestation.

Now, I am just "thinking it loud" here, and looking at this sketch compared to some other things that have come up in the case.

Zodiac second sketch SF 1969, Harris suspect 1987, "aged" Zodiac sketch by History Channel as Zodiac might look in 2010.

Beneath the Harris suspect sketch is Zodiac Sonoma 1975 sketch, which may just be an "aged" Zodiac sketch, how an artist thought Z might look in 1975.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


OK, stay with me just for a minute - Picture of a suspect in the 1982 Chicago Tylenol Murders, man watching woman buy tainted Tylenol. He has very similar receding (or cut) hair to the Harris suspect and a members only type jacket.




This is interesting: The second sketch of "SANDY", possible suspect in the 1963 Santa Barbara beach murders and the Harris suspect. They both have a ginormous forehead and somewhat similar look, though 24 years apart in time.



The ONS, suspect in May 4, 1986 murder of Janelle Cruz, happened two days before possible 1987 Zodiac letter; Harris suspect.



OUT OF ALL OF THESE WHAT DO PEOPLE THINK IS THE MOST SIMILAR, IF ANY? WHAT DESERVES FOLLOW UP, IF ANY, IN YOUR OPINION?

Search for 7-Year-Old Yields No Solid Leads
[Home Edition]
Los Angeles Times (pre-1997 Fulltext) - Los Angeles, Calif.
Date: Dec 5, 1987

The mother of a 7-year-old Northern California boy who disappeared from a casino at the California-Nevada border a week ago said she remains "pretty hopeful . . . he's still out there somewhere."

"I hope he was taken by someone who always wanted a little boy and is taking good care of him," said Roxanne Harris.

Police reported no solid leads in their search for Alexander Harris, who was last seen last Friday with an unidentified man leaving Whiskey Pete's Best Western Hotel-Casino at the California-Nevada border.

Lack of Good Leads

"We've had sightings from different places, but so far none of them have been the right one," said Las Vegas Police Sgt. Carl Cassell. "We just don't have any good leads right now, although we're pursuing everything that comes in."

Family members and authorities have speculated that the boy might have been taken to Southern California.

Alexander, who wears thick eyeglasses and whose right eye wanders noticeably, has light brown hair, brown eyes, stands about 4-foot-5 and weighs 60 pounds.

When last seen, he was wearing a red jacket with black stripes, a turquoise polo shirt, jeans and white high-top tennis shoes.

Playing Video Games

Harris said Thursday that she left her son playing video games for no longer than 20 minutes while she and her parents gambled in the casino area.

"There were a lot of other kids in the arcade and I didn't think anything of it," she said. "It just didn't seem like a dangerous place to leave your son."

Harris said the only reason the family stopped at the casino was because Alexander had wanted to play video games. The family, which lives in Mountain View, Calif., was en route from Las Vegas to a relative's home in San Bernardino.

"It was just a spur-of-the-moment thing," she said. "We stopped and I gave him some money, then went back about five minutes later to give him some more. When I went back 20 minutes later, he was gone."

Search for Boy Kidnaped From Casino Turns to L.A.
[Home Edition]
Los Angeles Times (pre-1997 Fulltext) - Los Angeles, Calif.
Author: GEORGE RAMOS
Date: Dec 17, 1987

Las Vegas police said Wednesday that detectives are looking into the possibility that a man suspected of abducting a 7-year-old boy from a casino more than two weeks ago may have brought the youngster to the Los Angeles area.

Lt. David Sweikert of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department said authorities have been pressing their search for Alexander Harris since the Northern California boy disappeared Nov. 27 from an arcade at Whiskey Pete's Best Western Hotel-Casino at the Nevada-California border.

Two witnesses said they saw the boy leaving Whiskey Pete's with a man of average build in his mid-30s, Sweikert said. "It looked like they were father and son, so no concern was raised at the time," he said.

Nevada authorities believe the boy may be in the Southland, Sweikert said, because Whiskey Pete's, near Jean, Nev., is a favorite spot for Los Angeles-bound motorists on Interstate 15. Also, he said, a large group of off-road enthusiasts from Southern California was at the hotel-casino at the time the boy disappeared.

The boy's family had stopped at the hotel-casino on the way home to the San Francisco suburb of Mountain View after attending a family reunion in the Las Vegas area.

To aid the search, Las Vegas authorities have released a new composite drawing of the man suspected of abducting the boy.

The man, believed to be between 35 and 39 years of age, is described as having average height and weight-about 5-foot-9 and 175 pounds. The suspect, who was wearing sunglasses, has light brown hair and a slightly receding hairline.

The boy, who wears thick eyeglasses and whose right eye wanders noticeably, has light brown hair, brown eyes, stands about 4-foot-5 and weighs 60 pounds.

When last seen, he was wearing a red jacket with black stripes, a turquoise polo shirt, jeans and white high-top tennis shoes.

A $22,500 reward is being offered by Whiskey Pete's, the Mountain View City Council and a secret witness program in Las Vegas for information regarding the boy's whereabouts.

Sweikert said those with information should call police detectives in Las Vegas at (702) 799-3591 or Las Vegas' secret witness program at (702) 386-3213.

Wanted sketches on desk of SFPD Inspector - may be sketch of Zodiac with wrap around dark sunglasses, or perhaps another murder suspect; Harris suspect sketch with dark sunglasses.

Zodiac second sketch SF 1969, Harris suspect 1987, "aged" Zodiac sketch by History Channel as Zodiac might look in 2010.
Beneath the Harris suspect sketch is Zodiac Sonoma 1975 sketch, which may just be an "aged" Zodiac sketch, how an artist thought Z might look in 1975.
I think those were the best alternatives.
But the distinctive nose doesnt remind me of the Zodiac scetch. And whats up with his left (or right) ear? Looks like he got different ears.
Haha. Having that "mold" he should had used a cap instead of glasses as a disguise.
And by the way, doesnt he have odd lips? Zodiac that is. (Zodiac second sketch SF 1969)
Seems like the upper and lower lips are same thickness. Almost.
Zodiac Sonoma 1975 sketch and Zodiac sketch by History Channel as Zodiac looks more similiar then the original Z sketch.

Azazel wrote:

Zodiac second sketch SF 1969, Harris suspect 1987, "aged" Zodiac sketch by History Channel as Zodiac might look in 2010.
Beneath the Harris suspect sketch is Zodiac Sonoma 1975 sketch, which may just be an "aged" Zodiac sketch, how an artist thought Z might look in 1975.
I think those were the best alternatives.
But the distinctive nose doesnt remind me of the Zodiac scetch. And whats up with his left (or right) ear? Looks like he got different ears.
Haha. Having that "mold" he should had used a cap instead of glasses as a disguise.
And by the way, doesnt he have odd lips? Zodiac that is. (Zodiac second sketch SF 1969)
Seems like the upper and lower lips are same thickness. Almost.

Zodiac Sonoma 1975 sketch and Zodiac sketch by History Channel as Zodiac looks more similiar then the original Z sketch.

Zodiac Sonoma 1975 sketch, which may just be an "aged" Zodiac sketch, how an artist thought Z might look in 1975; Harris suspect sketch 1987; "aged" Zodiac sketch by History Channel as Zodiac might look in 2010.

Thanks to Morf, it does appear that Graysmith says this 1987 letter that mentioned DEATH MACHINE and THE CAR was received or postmarked OCTOBER 29, 1987. Meaning it could have been mailed on October 28, 1987.

That confirms that it was October, as we had heard, and fits with the Halloween reference.

Just as the May 6, 1988 letter happened the same month as the last confirmed Original Night Stalker attack (May 4, 1986) this shows the 1987 letter was the same month as the last possible ONS attack, on October 12, 1987.

Also, the October 29, 1987 date for this letter is somewhat interesting in that it was one month later, on November 28, 1987, that Alexander Harris was abducted from the Whiskey Pete's casino that was exhibting the "death car" of Bonnie and Clyde. And the body of Harris was found one month after that, on December 30, 1987.

Also, the second drawing of the suspect in the Harris case is consistent with the general look and physical characteristics of Zodiac.

If anyone can get that first drawing that would be cool.

There were actually two messages sent by someone claiming to be the Zodiac in October of 1987.

The Vallejo Times-Herald received one on Wednesday, October 28, 1987, which referred to the 1977 movie "The Car".

The San Francisco Chronicle received the other one on Thursday, October 29, 1987.

The police said that both messages were forgeries.

I didn't know that. There is very little out there on the 1987 letter(s).

Did the one to the SF Chronicle have the same message as the one to Vallejo?

Do you know anything about it?

I understand SFPD may have dismissed these as hoaxes, but the information I have is that Terry Pascoe the Cal DOJ handwriting expert confirmed the May 6, 1986 Zodiac letter as authentic, and to my eye the same hand that wrote the 86 letter wrote the 87 letter.

Set aside just for the moment the question if these were written by the real Zodiac or a hoaxer. Does it seem as if the 1986 and 1987 letters were written by the same person? Isn't the style similar? Even the same type of writing instrument and paper? And same odd way of doing a "T"? Or could these be different hands?

Thanks to ZAMANTHA for finding and DORANCHAK for posting this newspaper archive. An article on the unconfirmed Zodiac letter of October 1987:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx2ZxPLdifaocXNhQnQwNklhT1U/edit?pli=1

A state expert declares the 1987 letter a fake, article also mentions Darlene's sister Pam Huckaby and items left at her house:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx2ZxPLdifaoTjBmbEJ2dDJhZnc/edit?pli=1