"ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

Dyfal donc a dyr y garreg...

Zabagliona wrote:

Dyfal donc a dyr y garreg...

Ah yes - very apt to this case!

AK Wilks wrote:

I am just saying IF it was TRUE, why haven't there been dozens of students who reported this?

It's called the bystander effect, Wilks. Maybe they just didn't give a shit.

Nachtsider wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:

I am just saying IF it was TRUE, why haven't there been dozens of students who reported this?

It's called the bystander effect, Wilks. Maybe they just didn't give a shit.

Hmmmm you know... it's kinda like some of the People from Vallejo.... why are there so few of us on these forums? I always wondered that!
I even invited a few, whom I think have some great ideas to this case.

Nacht, I like the term bystander effect! But I really hate it when people
don't give a shit. Once I heard something I kinda liked.... There are consequences for taking action and not taking action..... choices...

Lets hope this guy can be looekd at closer to see if he has any Vallejo ties. We know his cousin lived there at some point. Perhaps someone can check with the Solano county recorder's office to see what documents they have listed in their database for his last name

morf13 wrote:

Lets hope this guy can be looekd at closer to see if he has any Vallejo ties. We know his cousin lived there at some point. Perhaps someone can check with the Solano county recorder's office to see what documents they have listed in their database for his last name

Hi morf

It is not "Zode"´s cousin who possibly have/had a Vallejo address, it´s his cousins son, who carry the same first and last name as "Zode".
However it seems like that this man never really had any ties to Vallejo due to that the address, the street listed to Vallejo, in fact is located in Pleasanton.

Theforeigner wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Lets hope this guy can be looekd at closer to see if he has any Vallejo ties. We know his cousin lived there at some point. Perhaps someone can check with the Solano county recorder's office to see what documents they have listed in their database for his last name

Hi morf

It is not "Zode"´s cousin who possibly have/had a Vallejo address, it´s his cousins son, who carry the same first and last name as "Zode".
However it seems like that this man never really had any ties to Vallejo due to that the address, the street listed to Vallejo, in fact is located in Pleasanton.

Thanks. Pleasanton is till where Zodiac mailed letters from, and is not very far from the Kathleen Johns attack area. If ZODE did have Family there during the Z murders, that would be pretty interesting.

Of course the accuracy of the sketches can be debated. I admit the description is interesting, if hard to believe. If this guy went around calling himself "Zodiac", then he must be checked out, and I encourage all those interested to do so. What bothers me is that this report comes from an anonymous internet source, and if these story was true, why weren't there a dozen kids - young adults contacting police and media when Zodiac was all over the news?

AK Wilks wrote:

Strikes me as very hard to believe. The Zodiac case got huge publicity in CA, even more in LA when the Riverside connection was made and the LA Times letter was sent. If ANYTHING like this really happened, dozens of students would have remembered this guy! It sounds way too pat, it seems either fabriccated or exagerated. Do we have multiple credible witnesses that can confirm any of this?

AK Wilks wrote:

An anonymous poster on the internet making these claims...can't put much stock in it.

If this is true, there should be multiple students from that time who remembered this odd fellow calling himself the Zodiac and saying he would kill people and they would be his slaves!

AK Wilks wrote:

My take is if there were any truth to the story from the anonymous internet poster, dozens and dozens of students would have remembered this guy and reported it to police and media at the time of the Z killings.

AK Wilks wrote:

What bothers me is that this report comes from an anonymous internet source, and if these story was true, why weren't there a dozen kids - young adults contacting police and media when Zodiac was all over the news?

AK Wilks wrote:

It is an interesting report, but I can't place much face in an anonymous internet report.

Why have not dozens of classmates come forward, after the book, after the movie, and said "Oh yeah I remember this kid who said "This is the Zodiac speaking" and "slaves in the after life"? I just can't buy it, so I will leave it to others to check it out.

AK Wilks wrote:

But if this guy really said such crazy and incriminating things, I would think there would be dozens of classmates, teachers, friends, etc. who would have come out after the book, movie, etc., and reported this to police, media. But I have never seen anything, in the FBI files, police records, media, etc. It just doesn't ring true to me, but I agree it must be checked out.

AK Wilks wrote:

I am just saying IF it was TRUE, why haven't there been dozens of students who reported this?

During the time of the Zodiac murders it was a front page story all over California, including LA, in particular when the Riverside connection was made.

The Graysmith book came out in what, 1986? I have a 1990 paperback. The Zodiac has been on Unsolved Mysteries and Cold Case Files. Then we have the Hollywood movie.

And nobody else has come forward to say they remember a kid talking about "This is the Zodiac speaking", slaves and killing? I don't buy it.

AK Wilks wrote:

What bothers me is that this report comes from an anonymous internet source, and if these story was true, why weren't there a dozen kids - young adults contacting police and media when Zodiac was all over the news?

AK - I'm pretty sure you have made your point. Feel free to lift the needle from the record at any time, lol. I just found this topic today and read through all 8 pages and noticed this one reoccurring theme.

I like this POI because three items in particular stand apart from the typical "right age", "right build", "lived in Cali" Z fact checking.

1) He attended the same HS at the same time as Patricia Hautz
2.) His initials (MLZ) are eerily close to the strange signature/marking on the CJB letters.
3.) The word Zodiac was written in the PHS yearbook to describe MLZ. If this was written after the Zodiac murders then why pick this person, and go to the effort of marking up a yearbook and then having it scanned on the web?
4.) Supposedly he was teased relentlessly and used Z terms and self-labeled himself Zodiac. (this would need to be confirmed)

Apart from those items, if someone from PHS who attended during the same time as MLZ can confirm anything regarding him calling himself Zodiac or saying "this is the Zodiac speaking" then he is a VERY STRONG person of interest. Has anyone thought of attempting to contact someone from the yearbook page? It would take some good detective work but if someone were able to confirm from a former student of PHS that MLZ self-labeled himself "Zodiac" then you've got yourself strong circumstantial evidence.

z_assay said:

"I like this POI because three items in particular stand apart from the typical "right age", "right build", "lived in Cali" Z fact checking.

1) He attended the same HS at the same time as Patricia Hautz
2.) His initials (MLZ) are eerily close to the strange signature/marking on the CJB letters.
3.) The word Zodiac was written in the PHS yearbook to describe MLZ. If this was written after the Zodiac murders then why pick this person, and go to the effort of marking up a yearbook and then having it scanned on the web?
4.) Supposedly he was teased relentlessly and used Z terms and self-labeled himself Zodiac. (this would need to be confirmed)

Apart from those items, if someone from PHS who attended during the same time as MLZ can confirm anything regarding him calling himself Zodiac or saying "this is the Zodiac speaking" then he is a VERY STRONG person of interest. Has anyone thought of attempting to contact someone from the yearbook page? It would take some good detective work but if someone were able to confirm from a former student of PHS that MLZ self-labeled himself "Zodiac" then you've got yourself strong circumstantial evidence."

Couldnt agree more, well worth a look. Too many interesting things, and YES, his initials DO look like the symbol/letters on the Bates note. Maybe a possibility that this guy didnt kill Bates, but still wrote the letters??? As far as researching him, there are a few of us working behind the scenes trying to get some stuff on him, and the possibility of contacting fellow students of his, is a good one, and has been discussed.

I am sorry if I, over 8 pages, become repetitive in making my point. You also become very repetitive in pointing it out.

Yes Ricardo had the great idea in chat last night - try to contact some fellow classmates and confirm the story.

The other thing would be to try to establish the real identity of who made the initial accusation - was this person actually a fellow classmate.

It still puzzles me why, if this person was actually Zodiac, the age description were generally 5 to 10 years older than he was (Fouke 15 to 20 years older) and why nobody - Mageau, Johns, 3 LB college girls, 3 SF teens, Fouke - ever described Zodiac as "swarthy", "dark complected", "olive skin", "tan skin", "ethnic", "Latin" or "Arabic". But perhaps I have also made that point!

Contact the fellow classmates! Good luck.

Here you go.

http://www.e-yearbook.com/Pacific_High_School_Pacificana_Yearbook

MZ reported as sophmore in 63 yearbook, meaning he would have graduated in 65.

Found this on zkf. I can't vouch for its accuracy, it was posted by "Paul Averly".

If accurate, this would confirm that "Mary Patricia Hautz" went by the name "Pat Hautz".

AK Wilks wrote:

Here you go.

http://www.e-yearbook.com/Pacific_High_School_Pacificana_Yearbook

MZ reported as sophmore in 63 yearbook, meaning he would have graduated in 65.

Found this on zkf. I can't vouch for its accuracy, it was posted by "Paul Averly".

If accurate, this would confirm that "Mary Patricia Hautz" went by the name "Pat Hautz".

They were in the same yearbook, I cant remember off hand if they were in the same grade.

Nobody has yet commented on this aspect of the original anonymous post that started this.

"The Identity of the Real Zodiac


an173085 View profile
More options Dec 28 1994, 10:35 pm

Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
From: an173...@anon.penet.fi
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 15:32:56 UTC
Local: Wed, Dec 28 1994 4:32 pm
Subject: The Identity of the Real Zodiac
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
It is with great reluctance that I post this article, re-written
from a note I wrote in 1985 and sent to several police
departments and to the author of "Zodiac", all of whom ignored
it. I am still concerned for my personal safety, and for
the possibility that this may not be taken seriously, hence
I must remain anonymous.


A series of random murders in both Los Angeles and San Francisco,
and the television broadcast of a composite sketch of the killer,
strongly suggested in 1985 that the Zodiac killer, who was
never caught, may have been involved. Zodiac committed his
initial crimes in San Francisco, and later was traced to the LA
area. The San Francisco night stalker, some ten years later,
followed a similar pattern."

If I understand this guy correctly, he is commenting not on Richard Rameriz, but on how the "San Francisco night stalker" - the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker, first did crimes in the SF - North Cal - Sacramento area, then came down to LA area and did several murders in 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1986 (in Goleta, Orange County and Ventura).

He gets Zodiac backwards - Zodiac started in LA area (Riverside) and went north to SF.

What is interesting is he says that the "SF" stalker is the same person who did the LA killings. In that he was right - but that wasn't known until DNA tests in 2001. This was posted in 1994. So how did he know? Lucky guess? A couple of detectives thought they could be linked, but nobody in power believed them. So how did this guy know?

This guy also seems to say what I believe the facts show is possible - that Zodiac became the EAR/ONS.

Odd.

Was the identity of this poster ever established?

Yes, it was. We know who brought forward mention of ZODE as a POI in the Z case.

OK

I can prove that two of ZODE's relatives were in a car accident in San Fran in 1953. Doesnt mean they had ties to the Bay area, or were there during the Z murders, but it does show that they were there in the Bay area at some point

Foreigner in her great research found a recent photo of ZODE, and he does look like an older version of the Z sketch in my opinion....very interesting!

morf13 wrote:

Foreigner in her great research found a recent photo of ZODE, and he does look like an older version of the Z sketch in my opinion....very interesting!

I agree that he, the way he looks today, could fit the Zodiac sketch:

He has the two furors between the eyes, just like the Paul Stine Zodiac sketch (nr 2) and IMO his nose, lips and chin seems to fit too (also the nr 2 PS sketch). Also his hairline seems to be kind of a widows peak

Good work! I realise you wouldn't want to publicly post a picture of him on here but would it be possible to email a photo of him?

PS: Who deleted my post above???

morf13 wrote:

Yes, it was. We know who brought forward mention of ZODE as a POI in the Z case.

Morf, are you saying you know who that anonymous poster is? If so, who is it?

Nachtsider wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Yes, it was. We know who brought forward mention of ZODE as a POI in the Z case.

Morf, are you saying you know who that anonymous poster is? If so, who is it?

I´d like to know that too, if you can´t share the name on the forum please PM me.

Nachtsider wrote:

morf13 wrote:

Yes, it was. We know who brought forward mention of ZODE as a POI in the Z case.

Morf, are you saying you know who that anonymous poster is? If so, who is it?

I am almost sure, based on the wording, phrasing, description,etc, that the person that originally sent the anon. email regarding ZODE was KATANA from zk.com. His posts about ZODE on ZK.com sound identical to the anon. email Foreigner previously posted about ZODE. If someone knows otherwise, please feel free to correct me. I dont know the name of KATANA.

Quagmire wrote:

Good work! I realise you wouldn't want to publicly post a picture of him on here but would it be possible to email a photo of him?

PS: Who deleted my post above???

Not sure what was deleted in your post, I didnt do it.

Here is a pic of this guy. I feel that his photo has been altered enough to prevent ID of him. I want to make it clear that his name should NOT be posted anyplace on this forum. If you want to share info that personally Identifies him, please do it via email or PM. Also I want to clearly state that his photo is being posted as part of a discussion on how/why his name was brought up in the Zodiac case. HE IS NOT BEING ACCUSED OF ANY CRIMES OR OF BEING ZODIAC.







A pic of him from the late 60's would be great!

The History Channel show MysteryQuest did a sketch of Zodiac aged, as he might look today. I have no reason to think the sketch is particularly accurate, but it is a "guesstimate" based on previous sketches and what the effects of the aging process might be. Of course, everybody ages differently.

I compare that to the pictures of the older MZ, and the young MZ with the 1969 SF Zodiac sketch.