June 8, 1967 Alameda County Zodiac Victims??

The lab ballistics testing is going to be performed early next week, and the results will be in hopefully by the end of next week. We will know once and for all if this case is Zodiac related. The Detective also noted the similarities to the 1972 murder of Donna Rae Bramell, mainly in the fact that in both cases, the female victim's bodies were found at the entrance to a park, yet they were not initially attacked there. Also, both killed with small caliber gun. I thought that BRAMMELL's murder fell under Alameda County Sheriffs dept, but he advised me that it fell under the "parks" jurisdiciton in 1972, so he forwarded some stuff regarding Bramell over to them related to these 67 victims, & Zodiac

"IF" this 1967 double murder is the work of Z, it will be pretty big, as there are possibly other clues and leads to follow to catch Zodiac. Fingers crossed!

Wow!! I am keeping my fingers crossed!

Zabagliona wrote:

Wow!! I am keeping my fingers crossed!

Yeah, me too! Any new additional cases proven to be Zodiac-related, may provide additional clues to his ID

It could be that one of these additional cases is the one that solves the case...

Man....it just seems like its taking forever. These ballistics comparisons were supposed to be completed by this week, but the person(s) doing the exam, are on vacation, so it looks like it will be next week. I guess its been 40+ years, so another week wont matter

morf13 wrote:

This great article shows the victims reported being followed and getting prank calls prior to their murders. Does this sound like any victim of Zodiac's?

Check this out:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bnnZo5NBBTwC&pg=PA105&dq=%22passed+before+the+next+zodiac+call%22&hl=en&ei=JHYjTLmuDoH-8AbTkJyVBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22passed%20before%20the%20next%20zodiac%20call%22&f=false

The link takes you to the topic of a Vacaville teacher that was receiving anonymous crank calls, with heavy breathing, and she apparently was being watched/stalked (i believe this was the teacher that WJG, ANDREW TODD WALKER, was accused of stalking). Also, it mentions Robert Graysmith's crank calls that he received usually around 10:30 am.
In addition to these two 1967 Victims being followed leading up to their murders, the female victim was receiving crank calls between 10:30 & 11am. Also, someone was parked in front of their homes.

How much of Darlene Ferrin's "stalker" stuff is true? There were calls in her case, as well of reports of cars being in front of her house.

Oh how well Darlene's sister and myself know about the calls at 10:30 and 7 something Mornings and late at night.
The heavy breathing or the sound of wind blowing that our stalker makes when he calls us. The constant following for months at a time , late at night on lonely roads !
I am hoping that someday soon, one of you will know how to put the phone calls from this man that have been recorded, on this site for all to hear.
I also have his voice recorded, in hopes that someone will know this person ?
They are very chilling calls ,when you think about who they could be from.
Rickster , who had the Zodiaczee site has a copy of these tapes. He wasn't sure how to put voice tapes on his site.
Is there anyone who knows how to do this ?

George Waters was apparently the one stalking Darlene; he didn't deny any of that, but was cleared of being her killer. As for the calls, I don't think they happened anytime other than the night of Darlene's murder, and I believe Leo Suennen's explanation that he was the caller.

Leo may have said he was the caller the night his sister was killed. I am told he was looking for her to get him some drugs that night.
It makes no sense for him to call Darlene's mother and father in-laws home, just after the shooting so late at night , and not even ask if Darlene was there ? If it were true that he was looking for her, why didn't he ever ask for her ?
Not only that, but he was arrested that night for trying to rob a liquor store, he wouldn't be able to make but one call from jail. Why on earth did he make this very odd claim ? (That is of course if he did.)

Yup, I know about the drugs thing. I think that was probably why Darlene and Mike went out to Blue Rock Springs.

I think he may have expected Darlene to immediately pick up the phone if he called the Ferrins, and chickened out when she didn't (the Ferrin menfolk, I've heard, weren't exactly friendly with him). But this thing about him being arrested on the night of the murder is news to me, Sandy. Can you share more...?

I too Sandy have never heard of Leo being arrested, do you know any more, especially in light of the he made the calls remark, that he asked Darlene to buy him drugs and that MM was sitting in the car wearing three sets of clothes and Leo is supposedly out robbing a store. Does anyone notice (I know he gets so many things wrong) how he talks on the Directors cut DVD about protecting Darlene that night ,'I was supposed to protect her.' From whom? The 4th of July may very well hold the key. And if Darlene was supposed to be buying Leo drugs, then he should probably know who she was buying them from. There are lots of unanswered questions about Darlenes attack I think.

What about the "older" man that Darlene's babysitter allegedly reported seeing in front of the house in the White Chevy?

You have the possibility that Darlene had some sort of stalking issues. But even if you take hers out, you have the Vacavill teacher(if it was indeed Z calling her, and following her). You have Graysmith's report..10:30 am, and then this couple here getting calls at 10:00-11:00am(although not yet confirmed as Z victims, but I think its juts weeks away).
To me, that seems to be an odd time to call, 10-11am. Assuming ths guy isnt calling from work, maybe means that he wors nights.

(...is this maybe the teacher the "Topix" posters are referring to, but they've gotten confused?? - See "DGH Thread" )

Zabagliona wrote:

(...is this maybe the teacher the "Topix" posters are referring to, but they've gotten confused?? - See "DGH Thread" )

Not sure I follow?

Morf, there is a site called Topix and different towns have their own, like Vallejo has theirs. I post there sometimes, and they were posting about a teacher. I think they were posting about ALA being the teacher.

As for people wanting to know more about Leo and his arrest ? All I know is what his sister Pam told me went on that night 7-4-69. She said that Leo robbed a liquor store in Vallejo, and was arrested that same night.
I do not believe Leo called all of those people that night, looking for Darlene. If he made any calls, it could have been one to her home. The killer would know Darlene wouldn't be answering the phone that late, she was dead.

I think the call to the Ferrins, was the shooter letting the Ferrins know he knew where they lived, and also their phone numbers.
Or he enjoyed waking them up as if to say: Wake up I have just killed your daughter in law !

The babysitter told Darlene earlier that evening when Darlene dropped off Christine ,that a older sounding man had been calling for her all night.
That the man wouldn't leave any messages, but would say that he would call back. (I doubt that Leo would sound like a older sounding man.)
The phone call that came just as Darlene was about to take the babysitters home, could have been the call from Leo, asking for her to pick up some drugs for him. Darlene then went to pick up Mike, and from there they were followed to Blue Rock Springs. She did her best to lose the person following her. I still don't understand why she would drive into Blue Rock Springs parking lot, knowing that she was being followed ? Was she supposed to meet other people there, who would protect her from this man ? I do know that a person named Randy Young was supposed to meet them at Blue Rock that night. He had waited for them , but when they didn't show up, he left .

If there was an older sounding man calling all night, is it poss not William Leigh, who eventually got her on the phone and asked her to go out and get fire works for the party.

Leigh also must have pronounced his surname 'Lee' as when at the police station with Dean, the RO writes his name down as Lee. Leigh Allen apparently pronounced his as 'Lay'.

I've often wondered about him, last person to speak to her apart from Magaeu, only going by RG's books but apparently him and his wife the only two people who express consternation about her running around with other guys. Would she have left the house to go out if he hadn't called. The door handle, apparently she had driven Leigh's car, did he have access to hers? Does anyone know how old he was? Darlene also confided and spent time at his and his wife's house, he knew all about Waters and sunk the boot into him.

Not sure. If these 1967 Victims were indeed Zodiac, then Z would likely have had some connection in Alameda County as well in 1967. Alameda isnt too far from Vallejo, but its not a 5 minute ride either.


But remember, there were at least 3 confirmed and unconfirmed Z letters postmarked there, very close to PLEASANTON. *Exorcist letter
*Letter to L.A. Times
*Xmas card to Donna Lass

These are just off top of my head, there may be more.

Since these two people were murdered in PLEASANTON, near a WOODED PARK, after being PARKED ON A LOVERS LANE, and the GIRL WAS SHOT IN THE BACK AS SHE RAN, this is worth looking at further.
The Alameda County Sheriff Dept has told me that they DO HAVE the bullet(s) from LHR in their posession, and were supposed to already do a microscopic comparison. It has been delayed due to being short handed, but I am hoping for results in the next week or two.

Not to go too far off topic, but the following crime was also not far away:






Also, here is one thats right down the road. Not a couple shot, but there is a White car involved, and no motive:

Morf...why do you continue to post newsarticles without adding the dates of the articles/crimes?

Theforeigner wrote:

Morf...why do you continue to post newsarticles without adding the dates of the articles/crimes?

Sorry, i thought i posted these back in the start of this thread

morf13 wrote:

Theforeigner wrote:

Morf...why do you continue to post newsarticles without adding the dates of the articles/crimes?

Sorry, i thought i posted these back in the start of this thread

But even if you have previously posted what date it was, IMO you should always add the dates you post them.
You can´t expect people to go search the forum for were else you may have posted the articles in order to find out what year/month/date thise articles/crimes were published/comitted.

FROM THE 6/9/67 Hayward Daily Review


From the 6/9/67 Oakland Tribune



From the 6/22/67 Hayward Daily Review

Really getting bummed out. Alameda County wants the LHR bullets, and put a request in to get them. Cal. DOJ will not release them afterall, and they want Alameda County sheriffs office to send their bullets to the DOJ. That would not be a big deal, other than the fact that DOJ is telling them it will be 6 months before they can get to the comparison...how rediculous is that? We are talking about a case that may be Zodiac-related, and they cant speed it up.

Alameda thought this was going to be an easy, and quick comparison...so much for that. At least the Detective is still trying to pull some strings to get it done faster.

Spoke to Alameda County sheriffs dept a couple days ago, and they are in communication with Solano County Sheriffs Dept & DOJ. They will press on with trying to see if this case is Z-related! Red tape, budget cuts, and being short staffed have really slowed things down, but the Detective told me..."hang in there, we are going to get our answers eventually"

Could this 1974 case be related to the June 1967 murders of Rodriguez & Martinez? The attack happened at almost the same exact spot 7 years later. A married couple was bound (actually handcuffed) on this isolated lovers lane area, before being executed. Unlike the 1967 victims, this 1974 couple seemed to have an unsavory background (drugs, theft, etc), so at first glance, I want to say that they got mixed up in something bad and their murders were the result. But the fact is that they were a couple, killed in an isolated spot, almost the same spot where 7 years before, another couple was murdered. So I am afraid to simply dismiss this as a couple that got mixed up in some sort of shady stuff.
.
From the 8/27/74 Hayward Daily Review:


From the 8/28/74 Oakland Tribune:


From the 8/29/74 Hayward Daily Review:


From the 9/19/74 Hayward Daily Review:

Seems that the Praters were victims of a Hells Angels execution by the Angels' enforcer, Jim-Jim Brandes. He was charged with this as part of a 1979 conspiracy trial against multiple Bay Area Angels (including Sonny Barger)....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Z081AAAAIBAJ&sjid=P8wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1007,6268920&dq=brandes+barger&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=chgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3401,3837558&dq=alvin+prater&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JnszAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tjIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=6963,877754&dq=brandes+barger&hl=en