| Troy Houghton: The Minuteman | |
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+25Quicktrader zodio Jem tracers StitchMallone Luke68 kirkham bruce3 Dice In Bonus Fides MAZZY Zamantha Nin Azazel Nachtsider entropy bentley Quagmire Theforeigner Drew sandy betts morf13 rand tahoe27 AK Wilks 29 posters |
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Quagmire Chief
Posts : 423 Join date : 2010-05-12
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:02 am | |
| Z hasn't got to be a supergenius to write a difficult cipher though. With just an average intelligence and a codebook (he appeared to have some of these) he might have used two or even three different types of ciphers which would make it nearly impossible to crack. Frequency analysis would show that it is a real cipher (this is what the FBI think) but there is no single way to crack it.
For example, if he started off with a basic message (poorly spelt as the 408 was) and then used a cesar shift to encode it and then used a substitution cipher to further encode the result then it could be very difficult to get a solid answer. He wouldn't have to be a Mensa member and he would be following the usual rules meaning a regular solution would be possible but might require a bit of luck to get there. | |
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bentley Chief
Posts : 1340 Join date : 2010-03-06 Location : Bayarea
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:13 am | |
| I've enjoyed reading Rand's thread on Houghton. He's done far more investigation than I'm capable of so I'm content to just follow along.
I'm not crazy about the 340 partial solutions, as I wasn't on the prior Gaikowski solutions, nor AK's for that matter (AK I tried the "thesefoolshallsee" bit, can't make a full solution out of it), but of course nothing better has come along so who knows, and no harm in trying. The 340 does show frequency patterns, last time I looked, and I'm still inclined to believe it's a coded message with some sort of transposition, bogus filler, misspellings, non-English text or all of the above!
Edited to add note to AK.
Last edited by bentley on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:15 am | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:34 am | |
| Sorry to sidetrack the last post but I forgot to mention something else that tells me the 340 is not a cipher, but rather an anagram. If it's an anagram, Z could play with the placement of the characters to create clues. Look at this line in the 340: U+R/OTEIDYB... U R TO DIE BY (after the backslash read backwards) rest of line: 9BTMKO. The 9 is an upside down b. So you have bOMB with TK left over. Uh-ohhh. The TK people will use this to support their case. YOU ARE TO DIE BY BOMB. Z sent a bomb threat the next day. | |
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AK Wilks Chief
Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:32 pm | |
| Rand - I continue to think you have built a good and interesting circumstantial case for TH as Zodiac, and I remain willing to help you get detectives to compare hard evidence to include or exclude him. Some criticisms and areas of thought... Reading this below: Troy Houghton comes off as a goofball. A wannabe commando who doesn't know what he is doing, out of shape physically and not mentally sharp. He couldn't even inspire confidence in his fellow right wing wacko's. he managed to get arrested for flashing, for car vandalism and for gun charges. He doesn't come off like a master criminal, or even of normal criminal intelligence and ability. And the failed bank plot shows the MM as incompetent and riddled with informants. None of this strikes me as Zodiac like. | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:06 pm | |
| I'm glad you mentioned it. You've bought into the "hare brain" ideas of Gareth Penn that Z was a super genius. Z was a bumbling screwball, just like Troy Houghton. TH was a high school educated, miner, cement construction business type. He was a prankster, a screwball, and a bumbler; a hate-filled, anti-Semite looking for any reason to start shooting in the streets. This is exactly what Z was, IMO. A clever bumbler. The Zodiac couldn't kill a hogtied Hartnell with a gigantic knife; he couldn't kill Mageau locked in a car with nowhere to escape; he kidnapped a woman and her baby, and they managed to get away because he turned up an exit ramp And Z should have been caught after the Stine killing. It was just unbelievable luck on Z's part that a man with blood all over him a block from the crime wasn't stopped and picked up for questioning by LE -- don't you agree? TH was arrested for tampering with automobiles. Z tampered with CJB's car and Kathleen Johns's vehicle. TH shot out the tires of a woman's car while she was in it; Z claimed he would shoot the tires out of a school bus. Z was a clever punk who couldn't shoot straight and should have been caught but got lucky. TH was a clever punk who managed to screw up most things, constantly get in trouble, and, like Z, was nevertheless full of bravado. TH was a down on his luck kinda guy. A man who was wrong about most things but could tell you anything about ammo, radians, how to make bombs, put dynamite in people's exhaust pipes, put airplane glue on your fingertips to avoid fingerprints, poison your neighbor's pools, make threatening calls at 3am, and Halloween pranks. He was a pathetic, born loser, just like Z. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:42 pm | |
| - rand wrote:
- I'm glad you mentioned it. You've bought into the "hare brain" ideas of Gareth Penn that Z was a super genius. Z was a bumbling screwball, just like Troy Houghton. TH was a high school educated, miner, cement construction business type. He was a prankster, a screwball, and a bumbler; a hate-filled, anti-Semite looking for any reason to start shooting in the streets.
This is exactly what Z was, IMO. A clever bumbler. The Zodiac couldn't kill a hogtied Hartnell with a gigantic knife; he couldn't kill Mageau locked in a car with nowhere to escape; he kidnapped a woman and her baby, and they managed to get away because he turned up an exit ramp And Z should have been caught after the Stine killing. It was just unbelievable luck on Z's part that a man with blood all over him a block from the crime wasn't stopped and picked up for questioning by LE -- don't you agree?
TH was arrested for tampering with automobiles. Z tampered with CJB's car and Kathleen Johns's vehicle. TH shot out the tires of a woman's car while she was in it; Z claimed he would shoot the tires out of a school bus.
Z was a clever punk who couldn't shoot straight and should have been caught but got lucky. TH was a clever punk who managed to screw up most things, constantly get in trouble, and, like Z, was nevertheless full of bravado. TH was a down on his luck kinda guy. A man who was wrong about most things but could tell you anything about ammo, radians, how to make bombs, put dynamite in people's exhaust pipes, put airplane glue on your fingertips to avoid fingerprints, poison your neighbor's pools, make threatening calls at 3am, and Halloween pranks. He was a pathetic, born loser, just like Z.
Rand...you get what my issue with the psychology attributed of the Z (ie sexual pervert, genius game player). I perhaps look at things a bit different because of my background in nursing and having lived with a brother who has schizophrenia and his way of looking at the world and his own strange motivations. I am NOT saying that TH was schizophrenic but he might have had some narcissism and I think his motivations might not be sexual if he was the Zodiac. What I have been trying to say is that I don't think it took a rocket scientist to outsmart LE and to get away with the Z crimes. I think the puzzles or ciphers or code could be over thought and it might actually be as simple as Rand suggests. For instance..there may be a simple reason he chose the word "Tab" in Rand's solve suggestion. There might be other simple reasons for his choice of words in order to get his point across in the puzzle/cipher. What may seem odd and difficult to us might make complete sense and simplicity to the Zodiac. The good news is there is quite a bit of Troys writing and interviews out there...so this might bring it all to clarity some day. Remember Occam's Razor. Perhaps the simplest motive was he was trying to prove his point that societies morals were too permissive and flashed across the media and heavy handed government was taking away our rights and LE was so damn stupid to not see the crosshair sticker posted on the neighborhood cars. LOL! In a lot of ways you have to admit it wasn't a real smart guy that wore a hood with a big target on it, yes?? I could be wrong...but it smacks of some sort of reasoning my brother would come up with. And NO he wasn't old enough to be the Z. LOL! I do think TH was somewhat a petty bumbler thru life with high hopes and perhaps a higher view of his own intelligence. But the common thing I see is his tenacious base belief that our society was under threat. Changing and radical "commie" views, especially during those turbulent times, especially in California, home of Berkley radicals, flower children, free love and drugs and Mansion murders would have been a thorn in the side of a person with fundamental religious views and views that our government and leaders were leading us to hell in a handbasket. |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:56 pm | |
| - Quote :
- 3. Redmond Elementary ?
"The Puget Power Redmond Substation located across the street from Redmond Elementary is one of the alleged targets of the attackers, with the intent of knocking out power to the city as a diversion before carrying out their plot."
Sound familiar? Wink Absolutely sounds familiar to the dozen 1968 bombings in Ca. about the time TH disappeared if memory serves. [left] |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:36 pm | |
| Clarification...the "Sweep Out Brown" button was referring to Democrat Edmund Brown Sr who won governor of California in 1958 and then later lost his bid for 1966? So the reported button would have been before 1966 presumably? It is just that there is a link to another Brown when I was reading info concerning some of my other research. I assume the SOB button was concerning the governor...but wanted to be sure. It would seem pretty stupid to taunt the other Brown...based on the following. LOL - Quote :
- Before the election of 1960, a group within the Christian Right plotted to kill John Kennedy in Van Nuys, California while he was still a candidate. The group was a meld of anti-Castro Cubans, Minutemen and home-grown nazis. Some were sought by Jim Garrison, following his arrest of Clay Shaw, for testimony before the New Orleans grand jury. When Garrison forwarded extradition papers for Edgar Eugene Bradley, a member of the group, Governor Ronald Reagan refused to sign them.
The leader of one of these groups, the Christian Defense League (CDL), was the Reverend William P. Gale. During the war Gale had been an Army colonel in the Philippines training guerilla bands. His superior officer was Willoughby. By the late 1950s Gale was recruiting veterans for his "Identity" group, which was financed by a wealthy Los Angeles man. One of the CDL's contacts was Captain Robert K. Brown, a special forces professional from Fort Benning, Georgia. Brown was working with anti-Castro Cubans, mercenaries similar to Skorzeny's teams. Brown is now publisher of Soldier of Fortune magazine and paramilitary texts such as Silencers, Snipers, and Assassins. The book explains how Mitchell WerBell made special weapons for the CIA, Bay of Pigs assault squads and other customers. WerBell, son of a wealthy Czarist cavalry officer, perfected a silencer so effective a gun can be shot in one room and not heard in the next. It is ideal for assassinations. [b] |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:42 am | |
| I should be receiving the court documents tomorrow. I'll start posting them tomorrow night. | |
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AK Wilks Chief
Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:53 am | |
| Court documents from what case?
Any TH writing? | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:01 am | |
| I don't think so. It's from several cases: TH's trial; TH's appeal in absentia in 1967; and Dennis Mower's trial. There are 59 pages in all. I haven't seen them yet. I requested them from the MO Fed. District Court archives after they gave me a synopsis of several boxes of files on TH. | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:25 am | |
| On the Phillips 66 Mt. Diablo Map Code, Zodiac wrote the numbers 0-3-6-9. Troy Houghton's code name was 930: An upside down 6 is a 9. So whether it's rightside up or upside down, the numbers on Mt. Diablo are 930. | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:55 pm | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:12 pm | |
| Compare TH's cursive with the letter to Donna Lass's sister. I know that the S's are different, but note in the Lass letter that the author makes two kinds of S's (compare "St" with the rest.) Note the capital F in the Lass letter and compare it with the squiggly intro to the capital "E" in Elmo in the TH sample. Also note that in both letters, small "t"s are made two different ways. The cursive "t" crosses the small t at the top, the print crosses it in the middle. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:33 pm | |
| It's not a match; similar "schoolmarmish" style - yes, but it is not a match. |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:08 am | |
| I'm just curious: are you a handwriting expert? Really? Would you have believed that the Belli letter was done by the same hand as the Red Phantom or July 1969 SF Examiner, Chronicle, and Vallejo Herald letters? Also, and these are not sarcastic questions, do you have a POI? | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:22 am | |
| - rand wrote:
- I'm just curious: are you a handwriting expert? Really? Would you have believed that the Belli letter was done by the same hand as the Red Phantom or July 1969 SF Examiner, Chronicle, and Vallejo Herald letters? Also, and these are not sarcastic questions, do you have a POI?
Maybe you should send them to a handwriting expert instead of asking for opinions here. What would you say if a handwriting expert ruled out both Houghton and Husted? |
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Quagmire Chief
Posts : 423 Join date : 2010-05-12
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:05 am | |
| It does look similar to me - in style and in certain letter formations. There are some glaring differences though such as capital "S", etc.
Looking at Houghton's background and the physical description, it would definitely be worth getting an expert's opinion though. | |
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Theforeigner Chief
Posts : 880 Join date : 2010-03-06 Age : 68 Location : Denmark
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:34 am | |
| Hi Rand
You posted: "They provide TH's social security number"
I cant find it, the only thing i found that resembled a SSN was the 4-101-33-611 but that seems NOT to be a SSN due to that SSNĀ“s are 3number-2number-4numbers and that does not fit to the one found in the number above.
So could you please help me find the SSN you are refereing to?
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:38 am | |
| I think they simply typed it wrong. It says SS #. So I would assume it's 410-13-3611. The hyphens were just in the wrong places. | |
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rand Chief
Posts : 1071 Join date : 2010-04-03
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:45 am | |
| Btw, the Studebacker's destination was San Gabriel. The cover story used for MM secret meetings under TH was The San Gabriel Bird Watchers. MM members would be told that a meeting of the San Gabriel Bird Watchers was taking place on such and such a date. I'll bet Bertha Reach was a MM member. I'll go check this out.
I have dozens of documents to post today. I hope I can find the time. The court testimony is quite revealing, including TH's testimony and that of Bettie. | |
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Theforeigner Chief
Posts : 880 Join date : 2010-03-06 Age : 68 Location : Denmark
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:18 am | |
| - rand wrote:
- I think they simply typed it wrong. It says SS #. So I would assume it's 410-13-3611. The hyphens were just in the wrong places.
Seems like the person with that SSN was born in 1973 in Tennesee: Social Security Number: 410-13-3611 Date of this report: August 31, 2010 State of Issuance: Tennessee Approx. Date of Issuance: 1973 Issuance Status: According to the Social Security Administration, this SSN has been issued. SSA Death Masterfile: No record as of 04-02-2010 STATUS: THIS SSN HAS BEEN VALIDATED! | |
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Theforeigner Chief
Posts : 880 Join date : 2010-03-06 Age : 68 Location : Denmark
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:19 am | |
| If you could get hold of his correct SSN I will try check it out. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Troy Houghton: The Minuteman Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:51 am | |
| Rand, I find the letter to the Judge quite interesting. I know that you believe TH really did do flashing/indecent exposures...and the Halloween card shows his reference to this...but I see it different. I think IF TH was the Zodiac his taunting LE had alot to do with the fact he felt indignation at being "framed" for the indecent exposure arrests by federal agents.
Under the circumstances...if he truly was innocent of the indecent exposure charges...that would cause a man like TH to have ALOT of rage toward LE and media for running the stories. That could make a man like TH very dangerous for he was a calculated and controlled person IMHO. Which goes to motive for the crimes.
Also if he was innocent of the indecent exposure charges...and truly believed no matter what he did federal agents were going to screw with him...he had alot of motivation to go underground in the SAO.
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