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 Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???

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morf13
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PostSubject: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:26 pm

When Z sent Paul Avery the Halloween card, he mentioned clues like  ‘by rope’, and ‘by fire’. Also, in the Johns case, her car was burned. And in the Domingos/Edwards case, there is the possibility that their killer tried to set the victims on fire.
This past weekend, Seagull and I were kicking some ideas around about possible victims of Zodiac’s that were burned or set on fire.
Seagull came up with this possible victim:
Louise “Mindy” Johnson- Johnson was abducted from her home in the Chula Vista section of San Diego on Thursday Feb 13, 1969.  Three days later, on Sunday Feb 16,  her body was found ablaze on Carr Ave in Aromas CA, in San Benito  County. That is 400 miles to the north of where she vanished, and pretty close to Zodiac stomping grounds, and the Johns attack site. At first glance, it doesn’t seem related to Z at all. But why does someone drive 400 miles north to get rid of a body? And there is more to it. A truck driver passed a “dead or unconscious woman”  ,believed to be Johnson, in a green 68 or 69 Impala driving south on highway 101 near  Morgan Hill. That would actually mean that after she was taken from her home on Feb 13, she was taken to the Bay area, north of where she was found on fire 3 days later. This is indicated by the trucker seeing her in a car heading south on 101. So did her attacker(s) keep her some place for a period of time before she was dumped? It would seem so. This reminds me of Leona Roberts, another possible Z victim. She had possibly been kept some place for a time before she was discarded, and her body found. Louise Johnson was strangled, her body was wrapped in material, and set afire using flammable liquid. Remember, this victim was from another county 400 miles to the south. Also consider that the Swindles case in San Diego in 1964, and the 1967 Benedict case in  San Diego, have both  been mentioned as possible Z cases.  Unfortunately, I could not find much in the way of articles that provide details on her abduction.Here is more on her case:

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/241145-img-srchttpweb1.svnewspapers.comepodchrisiconsdocument.jpg-border0san-benito-sheriff-revives-40-year-old-brutal-slaying-case

Next I found another very similar case that happened in  August, 1977  in the Scotts Valley/ Santa Cruz area.  On Sat 8/20/77, a woman’s body was found on fire. She had been wrapped up, and her body set ablaze using flammable liquid. She had been shot in the head with a small caliber weapon. Police could not find out her identity (as far as I have found). But they strongly suspected that she was NOT A COUNTY RESIDENT. To me, this is very similar to the  Johnson case almost 8 years earlier.








I am hoping to hear some opinions and ideas from people. Could either of these be Z victims, and why or why not? Also, if anyone knows of addl info or can find an outcome on the 1977 case (since I couldn’t), I hope you can share it here. Or if you know of other similar case, please post that too. Thanks


Last edited by morf13 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:12 pm

Thanks for posting about Mindy's murder and also the articles about the Jane Doe burned in Santa Cruz county.

There is virtually nothing online except for the Gilroy newspaper article and the announcement of a reward offered for information about Mindy's murder.

http://gov.ca.gov/press-release/11361/

The reward article says that Mindy's name was Wilma Louise "Mindy" Johnson but oddly I haven't been able to find a death record for her in the usual databases under any of the three names. I've also looked for archived articles about the crime and I've found none. I'd like to know more about the circumstances of her disappearence. She was found so far from where she was last known to be and I wonder if that might point to a more experienced criminal. Four hundred miles is a long ways to travel with an unwilling passenger or a dead body. Doesn't seem like it's something a rookie criminal would do, to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:53 pm

I think that it is possible that Z was referring to the Domingos/Edwards case in the Halloween card. All of the elements were involved in that crime; rope, knife, gun, fire (attempted). Had Paul Avery already posted the article on the Bates case by the time of the Halloween card?

I know it is kind of a long shot and unlikely, but the thought has always been in the back of my head.
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:37 am

Seagull wrote:
Thanks for posting about Mindy's murder and also the articles about the Jane Doe burned in Santa Cruz county.

There is virtually nothing online except for the Gilroy newspaper article and the announcement of a reward offered for information about Mindy's murder.

http://gov.ca.gov/press-release/11361/

The reward article says that Mindy's name was Wilma Louise "Mindy" Johnson but oddly I haven't been able to find a death record for her in the usual databases under any of the three names. I've also looked for archived articles about the crime and I've found none. I'd like to know more about the circumstances of her disappearence. She was found so far from where she was last known to be and I wonder if that might point to a more experienced criminal. Four hundred miles is a long ways to travel with an unwilling passenger or a dead body. Doesn't seem like it's something a rookie criminal would do, to me.


I agree, there is very little mention about her vanishing from the San Diego area, only info on her turning up on fire in the Bay area. I have a researcher looking into this for me to see if any info can be found. By the way, I also could not find any vital record of this victim.
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:45 pm

One more article-

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:39 pm

I am posting the articles found by Ricardo and Sandy, regarding the fires in the Riverside area around the time of the Bates murder. One is too big too post here, but it notes 30,000 acres burning near Banning in the San Jacinto Valley. I note that a LOCKHEED PROPULSION ROCKET TEST FACILITY was burned down, among other things. So we have the murder of Bates, whose father worked at the Naval Weapons facility, the same day as suspected arson fires, including a fire that destroys an aerospace facility. Compare that to the case of Joan Webster in the Boston area.

Nov. 28, 1981 was the 15th anniversary of the Bates murder confession letter, and the 12th anniversary of another murder at a college campus library, Betsy Aardsma at Penn State. There were two major events that happened on Nov. 28, 1981 in the Boston area. One concerned the daughter of two former CIA agents, Joan Webster. Her father was then a top executive at a major telecommunications and computers corporation, ITT, working in the Defense section. She was a beautiful young dark haired woman, a Harvard graduate student, who was murdered in BOSTON, MASS. She was last seen at the LOGAN AIRPORT. Her purse and wallet were found in SAUGUS, her body was found in 1990 in HAMILTON. That same day, there was an event called the Great LYNN FIRE. Many buildings were burned down, including a GE plant that makes engines for jet planes.

Look also at what Doug Oswell found:

Doug Oswell: I happened upon something interesting today while doing a newspaper archive search of old Zodiac-related articles. Specifically, I was looking for any articles relating to the disappearance of Donna Lass that Zodiac might have seen around September of 1970. This is the first article I came upon: a brief summary from the Nevada State Journal, September 23, 1970.

http://unazod.com/odd/Nevada_State_Journal_Lass.pdf

What's even more interesting is the big headline on the front page of that day's edition.

http://unazod.com/odd/Nevada_Fire.pdf

Doug Oswell: Curiously, the Great Lynn Fire of 1981 occurred almost 92 years to the day of the first "Great Lynn Fire," which proved as devastating to the city as its successor.

AK: Zodiac did burn the car of Kathleen Johns, and did, as Morf notes, say he would kill "By Gun, By Knife, By Rope, By Fire." The Lynn fire also caused chaos, traffic jams and diverted police resources at the same time Joan Webster was being abducted.

I think Doug also noted that there were nearby fires on both Zodiac murder dates 12/20/68 and/or 7/4/69? Perhaps someone could check the local papers the next day.

So we have, PERHAPS, the initial indications of a possible pattern:

1. Holiday Period
2. Murder or Abduction
3. Fire

Senior Skip Day/Start of Summer - Domingos and Edwards - Murder, Attempted Arson of Bodies/Shack
Devils Night/Halloween - Cheri Jo Bates - Murder, Several Arson Fires In The Area
Christmas Week/Winter Solstice - Jensen and Faraday - Murder - Fire Nearby (?)
Independence Day - Darlene Ferrin and Michael Mageau - Murder and Attempted Murder - Fire Nearby(?)
Spring Equinox - Kathleen Johns - Attempted Abduction - Arson Fire of Car
Labor Day - Donna Lass - Abduction and Murder - When Reported In Paper Massive Arson Fire In Region
Thanksgiving - Joan Webster - Abduction and Murder - Massive Fire Nearby

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:45 pm

Some serial killers, like David "Son of Sam" Berkowitz, and also Ted Kaczynski, were known to start arson fires as well as kill people.

Article found by Ricardo and Sandy, about fires near Riverside near time of Bates murder:




Picture of Great Lynn Fire, same day as murder of Joan Webster, 11/28/81:

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:47 am

Got my hands on a few more articles about these "fire" victims. Will post when time allows. One mentions clothesline type rope as being used to tie the girl (like Berryessa)
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:50 am

morf13 wrote:
Got my hands on a few more articles about these "fire" victims. Will post when time allows. One mentions clothesline type rope as being used to tie the girl (like Berryessa)

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:00 pm

Here are several articles regarding the 1977 victim. The 1969 victim articles will be posted when and if i get them.













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PostSubject: Janet Mallicoat   Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:52 pm

8-28-71 Star News
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 pm

Thanks Rembrandt, good to see you online here Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:44 pm

morf13 wrote:
Thanks Rembrandt, good to see you online here Very Happy

Glad to be here Smile And thanks for starting this thread.
PS: I don't know if the Janet Mallicoat case was ever solved or not... I couldn't find
any updates regarding any suspects.
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:29 pm

Here is an unsolved Jane Doe case from San Diego County, CA about a girl age 14 to 17 who was abducted, tortured, and set afire. Could it be a Zodiac attack? Perhaps it is linked to some of the other cases mentioned in this thread.


----------------------------
Unidentified White Female
The victim was discovered on February 14, 1978 in San Diego County, California
Estimated Date of Death: Recent
Homicide victim

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 14-17 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'1; 90 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; brown eyes. Hair worn in twisted ponytail with rubberband. Pierced ears. Right ear deformed, and smaller than left ear.
Clothing: Black denim Bib overalls. Midriff blouse with blue flower pattern.
Dentals: Available.

Case History
The victim was located in Proctor Valley, in eastern San Diego County. She appeared to have been tortured and set afire.


Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:

San Diego Sheriff's Office
858-974-2457

You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case Number:
543957

Source Information:

San Diego Union-Tribune

The Doe Network: Hot Case 863


LINK:

http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase863.html


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PostSubject: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:38 am

Morf:

To everyone who posted on this thread… nice job. I believe this could be Zodiac related and a connection. We need to keep this active. Young woman Tied, brutally murdered by knife, gun, rope... then set on fire, sound like the Zodiac to me.

Daniel
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 am

Daniel Gillotti wrote:
Morf:

To everyone who posted on this thread… nice job. I believe this could be Zodiac related and a connection. We need to keep this active. Young woman Tied, brutally murdered by knife, gun, rope... then set on fire, sound like the Zodiac to me.

Daniel

Couldnt find alot more on these cases
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Rembrandt wrote:
8-28-71 Star News

Here is another article about Janet Mallicoat from the Chronicle.

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:53 pm

Was there ever an arrest in this case?

It sounds a LOT like the Snoozy - Furlong murders of 8/3/69, as the article mentions, but Karl Werner was in custody when this happened so we can't pin this one him.

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:40 pm

Like father like son? Dad was an engineer too right? Just a thought...

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:55 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Like father like son? Dad was an engineer too right? Just a thought...

Hmm? I don't get the reference.

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:33 am

Tahoe I don't get what your saying either. Question

AK I can not find that Janet's murder was ever solved. It was particularly brutal and I would think that there would be more news articles than the couple that have been found. It appears that there is only one article that was in the San Jose newspaper going by this site for the San Jose library. The listing for Janet Mallicoat is about half way down, near all the articles for the Manson murders.

http://www.sjpl.org/sjmnclippings-cp

Doing a google search doesn't offer much info either.
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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:36 am

Sorry---I should clarify!

I read Werner's father was an Electronics Engineer who had just lost his job--(San Jose State comes to mind not 100%). Karl too was into mathematics and electronics at SJS.

They found one of the knives in his parents' closet. Karl and his environment...I was thinking maybe the apple didn't fall far from the tree. (long shot I know)

I also wonder if his Mom and Dad ever wondered if their son could be involved after what he had done in the past.

...back to "By Fire"....

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:54 am

OK, I understand.

Janet was a math major at San Jose State College.

What disturbs me slightly is that this murder matches the brutal overkill MO of the Snoozy - Furlong murders. The mentally ill Werner pled guilty to those murders two years after they happened. The Zodiac was suspected in those murders and may have hinted at responsibility for them. Yet Werner was in custody when Janet was murdered. So who killed her? And is it possible that whoever killed Janet also killed Snoozy and Furlong?

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:12 am

Tracers posted a great article (not sure if it's here) at Tom's and it shows without a doubt Karl Werner was the killer of Furlong, Snoozy and Bilek. 100% proof.

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PostSubject: Re: Z victims 'BY FIRE' ???   Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:40 am

tahoe27 wrote:
Tracers posted a great article (not sure if it's here) at Tom's and it shows without a doubt Karl Werner was the killer of Furlong, Snoozy and Bilek. 100% proof.

OK I will have to read that. I agree Werner killed Bilek that seems very solid as they found the knife. But I don't know if there is any solid physical evidence to show he killed Snoozy and Furlong.

In any event even if he did kill Bilek, Snoozy and Furlong, who killed Janet?

I read the evidence, and there is no smoking gun physical proof that Werner killed Furlong and Snoozy. The police said they found a knife that matched the wounds, but it was a common kitchen knife. No fingerprint, blood or other evdience ties Werner to Snoozy-Furlong. So there is a little window of doubt, increased by this unsolved murder of Janet with a similar overkill MO.

But the circumstantial evidence that Werner killed Snoozy-Furlong is very, very strong. He attacked a girl with a knife back east and did kill Bilek. He had babysat at a house next to one of the Snoozy - Furlong girls and was their classmate. And he confessed.

So I personally conclude he did almost certainly kill them.

The question remains who killed Janet?

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