Fred Manalli

Seagull wrote:

I bought one from Ebay but I was able to make sure that Manalli was in there by looking through one at Classmates.com first.

University of Illinois Champaign Urbana 1957

There are only pictures of the seniors in the yearbook so I don't think it would do any good to get previous years.

Seagull, do you remember, I posted articles a long time back that mentioned Manalli was a teacher of some sort in Illinois? Do you still have those articles?

So I was checking out another film Manalli mentioned. HELP by the Beatles.

Starts off with an executioner in full costume ready to make a human sacrifice. Spotted this little bit of zynchronicity though. A manhole cover that's actually a hat cause the executioner is hiding under it.

You posted them here Morf

https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t280p30-sonoma-county

there's one more on the page following the above page!

Seagull wrote:

You posted them here Morf

https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t280p30-sonoma-county

there's one more on the page following the above page!

Thanks. By the way Seagull, in Manalli's yearbook listing, it lists his activities,one of which is oratorio society. I had to look that up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oratorio

"An oratorio is a large musical composition including an orchestra, a choir, and soloists. Like an opera, an oratorio includes the use of a choir, soloists, an ensemble, various distinguishable characters, and arias. However, opera is musical theatre, while oratorio is strictly a concert piece—though oratorios are sometimes staged as operas, and operas are sometimes presented in concert form"

Then I looked up Gilbert & Sullivan:

"Sir Arthur Seymour Sullivan MVO (13 May 1842 – 22 November 1900) was an English composer of Irish and Italian ancestry. He is best known for his series of 14 operatic collaborations with the dramatist W. S. Gilbert, including such enduring works as H.M.S. Pinafore, The Pirates of Penzance and The Mikado. Sullivan composed 23 operas, 13 major orchestral works, eight choral works and oratorios"

Seagull, I am having a hard time tracking down what High School he went to. Any ideas?

traveller1st wrote:

So I was checking out another film Manalli mentioned. HELP by the Beatles.

Starts off with an executioner in full costume ready to make a human sacrifice. Spotted this little bit of zynchronicity though. A manhole cover that's actually a hat cause the executioner is hiding under it.

Hmm. Another interesting item. Did the costume look at all like Berryessa outfit?

Nah it didn't really look like the Berryessa one.


A few scenes later the scientist's gun fails and he says "see? British rubbish, if I had a luger...."

Morf,

Here's your answer to he change in stroke in Manalli's K's. He does use a three stroke k for neat print.

Seagull wrote:

You posted them here Morf

https://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t280p30-sonoma-county

there's one more on the page following the above page!

Thanks!




He was at Durand HS in 61. He was Faculty Director

High School

I'm not certain but I think he may have gone to East High school. I remember looking up the high schools in Rockford, IL and East was one would have been around back in 1953 or thereabouts. It's also possible that the high school he went to closed. Have you looked at Classmates for high schools in Rockford for that time period?

Seagull wrote:

High School

I'm not certain but I think he may have gone to East High school. I remember looking up the high schools in Rockford, IL and East was one would have been around back in 1953 or thereabouts. It's also possible that the high school he went to closed. Have you looked at Classmates for high schools in Rockford for that time period?

Yeah, his Brother went to EAST, but I didnt find him

I would not call this a 3 stroke K, at least not in the sense of Z's usual 3 stroke Ks that begin the downward leg at some point right of the intersection with the vertical. This K could have, and imo was, done without lifting pen from paper for the bottom leg.

traveller1st wrote:

Morf,

Here's your answer to he change in stroke in Manalli's K's. He does use a three stroke k for neat print.

bentley wrote:

I would not call this a 3 stroke K, at least not in the sense of Z's usual 3 stroke Ks that begin the downward leg at some point right of the intersection with the vertical. This K could have, and imo was, done without lifting pen from paper for the bottom leg.

traveller1st wrote:

Morf,

Here's your answer to he change in stroke in Manalli's K's. He does use a three stroke k for neat print.

This is Manalli's K, and I think there is absolutely, positively, ZERO doubt that this is a 3 stroke.

Like Zodiac, he did both 2 stroke & 3 stroke

Yep, now that is a 3 stroke, multiple adverbs and caps not necessary. Let's see the entire page.

And show me the Z 2 stroke also.

Morf:

A good example of an Oratorio would be Handel's "Messiah" or Bach's "Mass in C Minor."

I don't know what bearing the word has for Manelli - there are no other meanings for "Oratorio."

Hope that helps.

bentley wrote:

I would not call this a 3 stroke K, at least not in the sense of Z's usual 3 stroke Ks that begin the downward leg at some point right of the intersection with the vertical. This K could have, and imo was, done without lifting pen from paper for the bottom leg.

traveller1st wrote:

Morf,

Here's your answer to he change in stroke in Manalli's K's. He does use a three stroke k for neat print.

I wasn't sure at first myself if it was a 3 stroke or a 2 stroke. At a distance it does, close up it does look like a 2 stroke except for this. There's an extra stroke here which doesn't correspond to the direction of the main upright and heavier.

Actually lets make sure SEAGULL can you email your hi-res copy of that page with that address on it.

EDIT: Also to add when it gets down to this, where the construction of a letter is ambiguous, it's time for examination of the actual document so you can see the pen strokes to be absolutely sure.

Here we are,

Looks like a 2 stroke but there is something I can't confirm, happening because it's a copy and not a photo or an original.

traveller1st wrote:

Here we are,

Looks like a 2 stroke but there is something I can't confirm, happening because it's a copy and not a photo or an original.

Some Zodiac & Manalli K's ....


Bentley, you wanted to see a possible 2 stroke K by Zodiac, how about the 4th from the right? If any one is, that is. In one of Sherwood's memos/reports, wasnt there a mention of Zodiac using 2 different K's, a 2 stroke & 3 stroke?

What about the Ampersand?

onewhoknows wrote:

What about the Ampersand?

Yes, he used an ampersand ( I had to look that one up ) and like Zodiac, he used the other symbol for the word AND

morf13 wrote:

traveller1st wrote:

Here we are,

Looks like a 2 stroke but there is something I can't confirm, happening because it's a copy and not a photo or an original.

Some Zodiac & Manalli K's ....


Bentley, you wanted to see a possible 2 stroke K by Zodiac, how about the 4th from the right? If any one is, that is. In one of Sherwood's memos/reports, wasnt there a mention of Zodiac using 2 different K's, a 2 stroke & 3 stroke?

And this comparison looks very clsoe in my opinion:

Now I will turn the K that Z wrote straight upwards and get rid of the salnt, now it looks even more like Manalli's.


One difference I see on Manalli's letter K is that he has a slight curve in the top right of his K where Zodiac's looks more straight.

The Ampersand doesn't match. It's Manalli's occasional lower case t that actually is very close to the Zodiac ampersand.


I had a look at this K again and without seeing the pen strokes themselves I can't confirm but there is something weird going on that I can't quite seem to reconcile sufficiently.

Here's what I think I'm seeing. The downstroke on Manallii's k is ok but there's something at the bottom that sticks out from the line followed by the downstroke. What it looks like to me is a second start point for the second stroke.

The top K is one of Zodiac's. At a distance it could be a 2 point but if you look closely you can see the start points for the strokes and there are 3 of them. That's what I've tried to see here in Manalli's but because it's a photocopy rather than a photo it's inconclusive. All I'm showing here is what I think is there - a best guess to explain the nature of the angle and the out of line bit on the downstroke.

One of these R's is from Manalli written in 1963 & the other is from the author of the 'Bates had to die' letters written in 67. Can you tell which is which?

Ok I was starting to take a look at the desk poem when I spotted something that hadn't occurred to me. One of the lower case u's on the desktop tumbles forward. That was one of the things about Zodiac's letters, his did the same, it's one of the unique features other than the famous k.

I checked Manalli's writing and his u's don't do that. In 63, and 65 at least. When we get to 69 however his u's are now doing it. Compared against one of the pages from the little list the angles of the u's match. I've used the word 'out' from the letter on the right to illustrate this.

The second image shows that there is a very similar margin shape as we had with the citizen letter.

Here's something that differs in the Zodiac stuff from Manalli's. The N's don't match. The are the mirror of each other. Zodiac's have a starting point at the top whereas Manalli's have a starting point at the bottom.