Fred Manalli

trainmaster wrote:

Rape and murder of women are crimes directed towards women. Although he and his wife had talked divorce in the past, perhaps he was effected by his spouse leaving him for his business partner and that anger grew and manifested until he, perhaps, took it out on innocent victims.

I am not saying he did act on his anger, but that is a possibility.

Great stuff, we now have possible motive, too.

duckking2001 wrote:

trainmaster wrote:

Although he and his wife had talked divorce in the past, perhaps he was effected by his spouse leaving him for his business partner and that anger grew and manifested until he, perhaps, took it out on innocent victims.

I am not saying he did act on his anger, but that is a possibility.

Oh yeah, I'd look for something that "set the guy off" with any suspect. I don't remember if this was brought up before, the threads gettin long... do you know when that was?

His wife apparently filed for divorce from him in 1970 in Sonoma County & then again for good in 1973 in SF. (they must have reconciled in between). Now, since we dont know about Manalli & his wife's personal lives,we can only speculate. But something must have strained their marriage, and it eventually got to her....Did it start in 68-69?? That,or perhaps, and more innocently,she just fell for Don Emblen?

I have reached out to a few people that I hoped knew Manalli, or that I know for sure knew Manalli. So far,no luck. A couple did not respond. One guy took the creative courses in Santa Rosa,but just left before Manalli got there. One guy named Herb Blau(mentioned by Manalli in his letter)could not recall Manalli. He said he had way too many students over the years,plus he is in his 80's, so that may have something to do with it.

Ducking, maybe Seagull will post and answer your question. I don't know.

morf13 wrote:

His wife apparently filed for divorce from him in 1970 in Sonoma County & then again for good in 1973 in SF.

Thanks.

Hm. Well yeah, that sort of precludes it being a precipitating factor for the Z crimes.

But maybe say that they were having problems and/or were separated in 1969, a good time to start writing letters. Maybe they got back together in 1971 for another chance, stop the letters. Having problems again in 72, go out and do the SRHM instead of writing from home as Z. Got divorced in 73, in 74 the letters again but with a new persona and dropped the Z.

It's just an imaginary possibility. I don't really think that SRHM and Z are related.

As a fire spotter, Manalli would probably have used the Osborne Fire Finder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Fire_Finder
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Use of the Fire Finder

The system is composed of a topographic map of the area oriented and centered on a horizontal table with a circular rim graduated in degrees (and fractions). Two sighting apertures are mounted above the map on opposite sides of the ring and slide around the arc.
A USFS Fire Lookout using an Osborne Fire Finder while on duty at Vetter Mountain, California.

The device is used by moving the sights until the observer can peek through the nearer sighting hole and view the cross hairs in the further sight aligned with the fire. The fire lookout notes the degrees on the graduated ring beneath the sight. The original Fire Finder was capable of a crude estimate of elevation based upon the level and elevation of the table, calculating distance and rough position of the fire by reference to any distinctive terrain features and by use of the scale shown on the map. However, in actual practice, fire distance and location were normally established using two or more Fire Finder-equipped towers, using the intersection method to fix the precise location of the fire.[1][2] Dispatchers at a central facility used a compass rose to mark lines of position from each reporting tower onto a large map to quickly find where the reported bearings intersect.

Today, a more precise determination of a fire location can be made by the use of a single Fire Finder in conjunction with a digital elevation model (DEM).[3]
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Once you located the fire, you could transmit the info to firefighters by telephone or by using a heliograph. Basically, the heliograph is a mirror you use to flash Morse code. Presumably this would be in a remote location where there's no phone lines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliograph
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Description
Fig. 2: German Heliograph made by R. Fuess in Berlin (on display at the Museum of Communication in Frankfurt).

There were many heliograph types. Most heliographs were variants of the British army Mance Mark V version (Fig.1). It used a mirror with a small unsilvered spot in the centre. The sender aligned the heliograph to the target by looking at the reflected target in the mirror and moving his head until the target was hidden by the unsilvered spot. Keeping his head still, he then adjusted the aiming rod so its cross wires bisected the target.[2] He then turned up the sighting vane, which covered the cross wires with a diagram of a cross, and aligned the mirror with the tangent and elevation screws so the small shadow that was the reflection of the unsilvered spot hole was on the cross target.[2] This indicated that the sunbeam was pointing at the target.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Both of these devices are kind of interesting. Measuring things in degrees, use of a mirror to reflect a beam of light. And possibly inspiration for Z logo.

Duckking:

I agree with you - I do not think the SRHM and Zodiac cases are related. The killer would certainly
have changed his MO if it were Zodiac, there was no sexual attacks in his crimes, and the killer
was completely different from the SRHM. Manelli may or may not be involved in SRHM, but I doubt
if he was Zodiac.

trainmaster wrote:

Duckking:

I agree with you - I do not think the SRHM and Zodiac cases are related. The killer would certainly
have changed his MO if it were Zodiac, there was no sexual attacks in his crimes, and the killer
was completely different from the SRHM. Manelli may or may not be involved in SRHM, but I doubt
if he was Zodiac.

While you may be right,or should I say, probably right,why not rule out Manalli properly for both SRHM & ZODIAC? If his body can be exhumed,perhaps a DNA sample can rule him in or out. Additionally, this man's prints are likely to be on file someplace, after all he was in the Army, and was a teacher,so I hope prints were taken at some point. Still in all, I can't ignore his similarities to Zodiac's writing....the closest I have seen. His common uses of words and writing habits with Zodiac are spooky, not to mention the fact he was writing a story called 'Paradise,its a nice place' at the same time Zodiac mentioned 'slaves in Paradise'.

"If his body can be exhumed,perhaps a DNA sample can rule him in or out. Additionally, this man's prints are likely to be on file someplace....."


I agree with you, Morf, and you and Traveller are doing a fine job uncovering facts about Manelli.

Since I understand sperm was found from one of the victims, I think the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office owes it to the families of the victims
to exhume Manalli's remains and test DNA. I can tell you, from working at NCIS, if Manalli was in one of the armed forces, there are fingerprints on file. They can be obtained, by request, from the SCSD. I don't think FOIA applies to fingerprints taken while in the military. Civilian, perhaps.
I don't know about how the FOIA applies there. Since A.J. is an attorney, maybe he does.

The U.S. Privacy act, along with the FOIA will get you three pieces of information about military personnel:

Name
Rank
Serial Number

Anything else is like pulling hen's teeth. Manalli's file would be stored in a Federal Records Center. Best bet is to contact the branch of armed forces he served in. If you have the above information, it will be helpful.

I hope that helps.

Yeah, I was hoping that we could get something a little more definitive out of his timeline. Not being in California at the time, I'd say would pretty much rule someone out. Just the info that he was in Nor Cal at the time doesn't help much though, because that is a minimum requirement just to be considered.

I don't remember, did he have a Riverside connection?

Based on those dates it seemed that he was in Sonoma during the Z attacks, and in SF during the SRHM. Kind of a reverse situation to what you might expect.

Let's hypothesize that he did write at least some of the Z letters. What does that mean? Would it mean that he has to be the Z, or does that lend more towards the team or non-zodiac killer (as in the writer wasn't involved with the murders) theories? Or could it mean that maybe he just wrote the 74 letters and that they are actually not Z related and it's just a coincidence that he has similar handwriting and someone thought it was Z?

I guess that last question is the one that I am considering the most. Not trying to put anyone on the spot to answer these questions, but maybe something to think about for the case in general regardless of POI.

duckking2001 wrote:

Yeah, I was hoping that we could get something a little more definitive out of his timeline. Not being in California at the time, I'd say would pretty much rule someone out. Just the info that he was in Nor Cal at the time doesn't help much though, because that is a minimum requirement just to be considered.

I don't remember, did he have a Riverside connection?

Based on those dates it seemed that he was in Sonoma during the Z attacks, and in SF during the SRHM. Kind of a reverse situation to what you might expect.

Let's hypothesize that he did write at least some of the Z letters. What does that mean? Would it mean that he has to be the Z, or does that lend more towards the team or non-zodiac killer (as in the writer wasn't involved with the murders) theories? Or could it mean that maybe he just wrote the 74 letters and that they are actually not Z related and it's just a coincidence that he has similar handwriting and someone thought it was Z?

I guess that last question is the one that I am considering the most. Not trying to put anyone on the spot to answer these questions, but maybe something to think about for the case in general regardless of POI.

Manalli, was steadily in Northern CA from the early to mid 60's until sometime in 1974(when the Z letters stopped). In 1974, he moved back to Illinois. I know this based on a letter he wrote in 1975 stating "I MOVED BACK HERE LAST YEAR AFTER MANY YEARS IN CA". At some point, he moved back to CA in time for his fatal auto accident in Aug 1976. From this standpoint, he fits the Zodiac timeline and can not be ruled out, at least based on his trail of addresses, dates,and other clues from his letters, and address histories. However, I can find no links to him in Riverside or Southern CA. I think Seagull checked too and failed to come up with any. In the Graysmith book, ZODIAC UNMASKED, a woman gave Graysmith and/or investigators alot of info about Manalli, and she stated that she believed he had ties in southern CA, and to "Riverside...the Bates case"(I am paraphrasing).

As far as getting his military records, I have requested them. They can take several weeks. Seagull knows a little about his service, andI am trying to find more. Several military records I have obtained over the years are sketchy and have very little helpful info. Sometimes, they can not locate the records for some soldiers(thanks in part to a fire at teh records center warehouse). But in at least one instance, I was sent a good amount of information about somebody, dates, service duty stations, special training (a marksman with a handgun)etc, etc. Not sure what, if anything Manalli's record will provide.

Once again, if you look at this guy on paper, he is a pretty good suspect:

*Many Writing similarities to Zodiac in formation, structure, habits,etc

*Mentions of James Joyce's book, which includes many of the same misspelled words from Zodiac, with the exact misspellings

*When Zodiac mentioned "reborn in paradise", Manalli, was at that very time, finishing a story called 'Paradise, its a nice place'

*Like Z, Manalli frequently used the word 'SHALL' more than anybody would normally use it.

*Manalli mentioned violent acts, rape,murders, and even wrote "GOD SAVE ME...CATCH ME BEFORE I KILL MORE"..very similar in wording to the Belli note

*We know Zodiac had some sort of mental stuff going on, thats obvious. Manalli wrote alot about his own deteriorating mental health, and sanity. Manalli also had a medical condition which likely effected his walk...perhaps it would have made him walk irregularly like Z appeared to.

*Physically, he looks similar to the Zodiac sketch(minus glasses). His 6ft3 height is taller than most Z descriptions, although Z was described as 6ft2 in one account. He apparently put on weight too. In one letter, he mentioned he had gotten flabby and wouldnt be recognized.

*Ken Narlow mentioned that NAPA PD was of the opinion that Zodiac,whomever he was,was very poor based on the fact that he drove a car with 4 non-matching tires in poor shape. Manalli wrote that he was very poor, making $4-$5000 a year and barely scraping by. In one letter, he even mentioned "needing a new set of tires"

*Most compelling of all, he was a suspect in the SRH murders. Anybody that is a bay area serial murder suspect, should be properly ruled in the SRHM & Zodiac murders for all reasons listed above.

What do I make of all this stuff? I dont know. I do know, its all strong enough to make me keep digging. I know that when the last confirmed Z letter was received in 74, that Manalli headed to Illinois, and he died in 1976....no confirmed Z letter came after 1974. I know that alot of Manalli's interests and writings line up with Zodiac clues. This may be another great case of Zyncronicity, but maybe not.

Seagull pointed out that some serial killers start out further away from their house, and get closer to home as they get more comfortable, which could explain no verified addresses,etc for Manalli in Vallejo. Still, I would like to verify some sort of reason for manalli to be connected to Vallejo. I would also love to know if he had any history with guns. I have reached out to a few people that may have known Manalli, or could help me get some facts, but I struck out.

My personal goal is to research all suspects and POI's until they can be ruled out in my book. I cant do that with Manalli,therefore, I will keep digging

duckking2001 wrote:

Let's hypothesize that he did write at least some of the Z letters. What does that mean? Would it mean that he has to be the Z, or does that lend more towards the team or non-zodiac killer (as in the writer wasn't involved with the murders) theories? Or could it mean that maybe he just wrote the 74 letters and that they are actually not Z related and it's just a coincidence that he has similar handwriting and someone thought it was Z?

I guess that last question is the one that I am considering the most. Not trying to put anyone on the spot to answer these questions, but maybe something to think about for the case in general regardless of POI.

I've been considering this throughout and at times though I had a reasonable hypothesis but I don't think I have because it all seems to lead to a catch 22 of sorts.

Consider that the Citizen letter is not written by the zodiac.

Ok that's reasonable after all it mentions nothing about the Zodiac and would appear to be against violence. So how would that affect us on an amateur level? Well it would rule out a connection to the desk poem for starters. Actually it would, by default, rule out any connection to any of the other evidence.

That's were I, at least, start to run into problems. There is a connection and there always be and that connection is Sherwood Morril. Sure the most tenuous connection in our eyes is the Riverside stuff given that it's made up of scrawls and writing on wood and something typed. Sherwood made a connection though and Zodiac (If to be believed) responded to that connection.

Back to the amateur side of things and I've seen possible connections to the citizen letter and the desk and maybe more. Whilst working on this recent stuff I've seen connections in other communication, authenticated by Sherwood, that I hadn't noticed before but in respect of zodiac's writing style, they are so obvious to me now.

So based on what I've seen so far concerning all this stuff, if Sherwood matched it it's most probably a match. Not least because he was the Head of QD for CA.

Can I rule something as being connected by the fact that the writing just happened to be very similar. Absolutely

Can I rule something out if it's been authenticated by Sherwood Morril? Never.

I've seen more things that corroborate Sherwood's linking of these documents than evidence that doesn't. It's because of that, that any handwriting matches, if indeed a match, would suggest a person is more likely to be the zodiac than just someone who coincidently happened to have their writing included as part of a murder case.

But what if Sherwood did get something wrong?

See? Catch 22, it never ends.

Manalli was a strange character, as I have often found English majors to be a little quirky (like organists LOL).

He is a subject worth continuing to investigate, although it may be hard to find vital information.

The gun issue would be of paramount importance. I can't remember if guns had to be registered at that time, but if the requirement was in place, try contacting the State of California under the FOIA and see if he purchased any.
I think mail-order guns was still in place, so the gun subject may reach a dead end. The people who knew Manelli would be in their late 70's or 80's, if any remain. I doubt if his students knew about his personal life, which I suspect was that of a loner, again something in common with Zodiac.

Duckking, you ask interesting questions - too bad the answers are not easy to find.

In regards to Sherwood Morril, he was an excellent document examinor.
But, that does not mean he could not make a mistake, and perhaps did in the Z case.

A couple weeks ago, I Sent off a request for any existing FBI files for Manalli. Got a reply today that they are searching their files. Hope to hear back again within a few weeks. I am not real hopeful that they will have anything on file.

Good work Morf.

Never say never. Not where Freddy's concerned lol.

traveller1st wrote:

Good work Morf.

Never say never. Not where Freddy's concerned lol.

Never know

Here are all Manilla's in Rockforf Illinois 1959.

I belive that Fred Manilla's parents is Irene H Manilla and Jack J Manilla
(in other records Jack is listed as John J Manalli)




Thise, I belive, are Fred Manalli's parents death records:

Social Security Death Index
about Irene Manalli
Name: Irene Manalli
SSN: 348-10-0080
Last Residence: 61108 Rockford, Winnebago, Illinois, United States of America
Born: 8 Oct 1911
Last Benefit: 61108 Rockford, Winnebago, Illinois, United States of America
Died: Dec 1984
State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (Before 1951)




Social Security Death Index
about John J. Manalli
Name: John J. Manalli
SSN: 348-10-0112
Last Residence: 61108 Rockford, Winnebago, Illinois, United States of America
Born: 27 Mar 1910
Died: 11 Mar 1992
State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (Before 1951)







I also found this:

U.S., Department of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File, 1850-2010
about Fredric Manalli
Name: Fredric Manalli
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1935
Death Date: 25 Aug 1976
SSN: 352264917
Branch 1: ARMY
Enlistment Date 1: 1 Oct 1957
Release Date 1: 25 Sep 1959

Yes, TF Fred's parents were Jack and Irene. They are named in the obituary that appeared in the newspaper. Fred had a sister, Mary Lou, who was quite a bit younger. She had a career in news broadcasting and worked at a TV station in the San Francisco Bay Area. As far as I know she did not move to the Bay Area until after her brother died. Here's a youtube of a little bit of her broadcast, there are more if you google her name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oww5FDU3o7g

Seagull wrote:

Griffith was in a motorcycle accident in a different part of Sonoma County. Manalli was the only one in his vehicle, the woman he hit was not killed.

Good stuff TF.

I found these from the winebago area register.

M933-0581 07/02/1933 MANALLI, GEORGE 25 SYDLOWSKI, MARY 23
M940-0521 09/07/1940 MANALLI, GEORGE 27 HAMANT, ROSE 23
M325-1947 10/10/1953 MANALLI, GEORGE J 45 MANALLI, MARY MARGARET 42
M934-0753 06/06/1934 MANALLI, JACK 25 MUROWSKI, IRENE 23
M912-0391 06/24/1912 MANALLI, JOHN 23 BEDWELL, LURLIE FAE 19
M307-2307 04/27/1946 MANALLI, JOSEPH A 26 CARUANA, CARMELLA J 25
M317-1705 10/07/1950 MANALLI, VICTOR M 30 VASCELLARO, LILLIAN 21

These are for marriages, there is also death and birth records.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/il/winnebago/vitals/

Thanks Seagull and Trav:)

Found this today, it was published 1963:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/short-stories-the-blakentia-sextet/oclc/6247788


Short stories : The Blakentia sextet
Author: Frederic Steven Manalli

Edition/Format: Book : Fiction : Manuscript Archival Material : English
Rating: (not yet rated) 0 with reviews - Be the first.



Details
Material Type: Fiction, Manuscript
Document Type: Book, Archival Material
All Authors / Contributors: Frederic Steven Manalli
Find more information about: Frederic Steven Manalli
OCLC Number: 6247788
Notes: Typescript.
A creative work submitted to San Francisco State College in partial fulfillment for the degree Master of Arts. Description: 94 leaves ; 29 cm.
Other Titles: Blakentia sextet.
Responsibility: by Frederic Steven Manalli.



http://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/record.php?id=6247788&contributor=6854&archivename=San+Francisco+State+University+-+J.+Paul+Leonard+Library

Short stories : The Blakentia sextet
Manalli, Frederic Steven.
Publication information:1963

94 leaves ; 29 cm.

San Francisco State University - J. Paul Leonard Library
Contact an Archivist to learn more about access to materials in this collection
Contact Information
Notes and summaries
Typescript.
A creative work submitted to San Francisco State College in partial fulfillment for the degree Master of Arts.
This collection covers:
AS36 1963 .M36
Related to:
Blakentia sextet.
OCLC WorldCat link: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/6247788



Does anyone know what "Blakentia" is?

Foreigner, I m trying to get my hands on that book, Blakentia Sextet. I dont know what BLAKENTIA means. If you google the word, the results are mostly all related to Manalli's book.

I tried to get the Blakentia Sextet from San Francisco State not long after I first got the letters but ran into a stone wall because of construction at the university. All of the thesis had been moved off campus to another university and there was a problem locating it. I hope they have gotten things back together by now!

Could it perhaps be a reference to the English writer and painter William Blake?

Three out of five serial killers prefer references to William Blake...

Some more Manalli pics & stuff, I may have a few more things tomorrow. Unfortunately,these pics are also from the 1950's.

AK Wilks wrote:

Three out of five serial killers prefer references to William Blake...