Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner

Yes, Chris worked for the Rock shop in 1975, and the crux of why he knew about the story was because of Rick's mother (Chris's aunt) confronting Rick about it one day after his arrest for molesting the boys.

I don't think that Rick stalked Betsy to the library for the purpose of killing her. My theory runs more along these lines:

1. Rick gets in his head that he can either "Get her back" as his girlfriend or otherwise convince her that she was wrong to break up with him OR
2. Rick plans to finally confess his love for her after 2-3 dates.

I think #1 because why follow her to the library if you were going to confess your love? He could do that that the dorm room. I think he followed her to make it seem that he was "bumping into her," and I think in his mind, he thought she'd be really happy to see him on campus over the break also.

Things didn't go as well as he planned, and I think he probably walked away dejected and then either: thought about it, worried about something she said, or got mad, and came back down the aisle and killed her.

Dice wrote:

Did Rick work at the same rock shop as the 2 teenaged boys RH was accused of molesting?

Chris actually testified in the 1976 molestation trial. According to quotes in a Lancaster News Article, Rick asked Chris to lie, more or less, in order to make his version of the story fit so that the police version would be incorrect.

Having read the transcript, Chris corroborates Rick's story as he claimed, so I have to believe him on that.

I loved the book; it seemed to fill in many of the gaps about this case for me.

I was particulary interested in all the stuff about Bill Spencer...I'm sure you could write another book just about him.

The case against RH does seem pretty compelling especially with Chris's testimony. What an unpleasant guy! I've perhaps known 2 people a little like him in my life and one is dead, the other in jail.

Edit: Also, I liked what you wrote about coincidence.. perhaps you could elaborate a little on that here - I don't want to quote from your book.

Dreamnine wrote:

I loved the book; it seemed to fill in many of the gaps about this case for me.

I was particulary interested in all the stuff about Bill Spencer...I'm sure you could write another book just about him.

The case against RH does seem pretty compelling especially with Chris's testimony. What an unpleasant guy! I've perhaps known 2 people a little like him in my life and one is dead, the other in jail.

Edit: Also, I liked what you wrote about coincidence.. perhaps you could elaborate a little on that here - I don't want to quote from your book.

Glad to hear that you liked it. Yes, Bill Spencer was quite a character. Wish there was a way to fill in more of the gaps in his life -- so much of it was lost to history, so to speak. The fact that he had an incredibly generic name didn't really help matters, either!

Feel free to quote the book -- which part did you mean about coincidence -- the quote from Gareth Penn?

If you get a chance, please leave a positive feedback on Amazon -- they're always appreciated!

The book I am working on about the molestation trial should explain a lot more about Rick and his personality -- because I believe a large portion of the way he was came from frustration at the result of that trial.

Yes, it was the quote about 2 types of coincidence - things just coinciding, and coincidences because we see them, or make them happen.

I will leave some feedback on Amazon.

Interestingly, the case of Christine Rothschild in Wisconsin in 1968 has a similar, weird, professional suspect who put me in mind of RH: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160943&highlight=Christine+Rothschild

Strange how my review just shows on the British page for the Kindle book - with the price in £s.

I thought they would put them all together.

I don't have it handy because I'm at work, but I know the quote you mean -- feel free to put it up if you'd like, I probably won't have a chance to in the next couple of days.

Fascinating stuff, that other murder. It certainly sounds like they have their man, but no one will do anything about it.

For anyone reading the thread and wondering what I was talking about, I quote Gareth Penn from Derek's book:

Quote :

"As to the Aardsma murder, which is new to me, let me point out that there are two kinds of coincidences, the kind that happen spontaneously, and those that happen because somebody made them happen. I suggest that the Aardsma murder belongs in the first category, rather like the death of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, both of whom died on the Fourth of July 1826, the fiftieth anniversary of the date on which they had both signed the Declaration of Independence. An example of the second kind is the bombing of the federal office building in Oklahoma City on the second anniversary of the Branch Davidian disaster. In addition to being a contrived coincidence, it is another example of nonverbal communication. If Timothy McVeigh had made good his escape, he might have written an anonymous letter to the New York Times explaining that the Oklahoma City bombing was revenge for Waco. But he didn't need to. Plenty of people got the point anyway. All he had to do was light the fuse and let the calendar do his talking for him."

And I find this instructive because I'm always seeing connections where there are probably none to be made. I'm not talking about the Aardsma case specifically, more in general.

Thanks! One of the most instructive things I learned in high school was Occam's Razor -- entia non sunt multiplicanda; entities are not to be multiplied. The human mind is wired to make connections, oftentimes where none exist, and like you, I fall prey to that as well. Occam's Razor helps keep me grounded.

Thanks for the nice review, as well! I went to amazon.co.uk and read it. I agree, it's strange that it doesn't show up on the US site.

Penn was answering my question about Aardsma 11/28/69 and Webster 11/28/81. In a rare moment when his intelligence is matched by coherence Penn expresses well mome points to consider. I still think there could be a link but Penn makes some good points.

I think the Atlanta letter is given a good possible explanation in the book..

What is most compelling about RH is his apparent spilling of details - well before anyone else knew about them - to his advisor that evening... and his generally bizarre behaviour at the time, and much later.

I don't think that Betsy stumbled on a homosexual liaison and that was the reason for her death; I think RH felt slighted by her - and badly. He seems to have had issues with women in general, and I think he was in such a rage about Betsy that it was enough to kill her.

What came across to me from the book was his total lack of empathy with people, yet he did manage to have a few close male friends through his life who seemed blind to how screwed up he was.

AK, yes, some of Gareth Penn's other sayings I don't think I would put here, lol.

Dreamnine wrote:

I think the Atlanta letter is given a good possible explanation in the book..

What is most compelling about RH is his apparent spilling of details - well before anyone else knew about them - to his advisor that evening... and his generally bizarre behaviour at the time, and much later.

I don't think that Betsy stumbled on a homosexual liaison and that was the reason for her death; I think RH felt slighted by her - and badly. He seems to have had issues with women in general, and I think he was in such a rage about Betsy that it was enough to kill her.

What came across to me from the book was his total lack of empathy with people, yet he did manage to have a few close male friends through his life who seemed blind to how screwed up he was.

AK, yes, some of Gareth Penn's other sayings I don't think I would put here, lol.

Rick took medicine for bipolar disorder later in life, which to me explains somewhat how you could see different sides of his personality depending upon your interaction with him.

Also, he seemed at his best when he was doing what he loved -- geology. If you were involved in field work with him, you probably only saw a knowledgeable, friendly, man's man kind of guy.

It was when he was at home, in Lancaster, mired in his court cases, or out in the public, dealing with people who didn't treat him the way he felt he deserved to be treated, that you could see a much more vicious side.

AK - I didn't know that quote was Penn responding to you; I'd never read it before and thought it was pretty good.

But I agree - Aardsma and Joan Webster are spookily similar cases, not just the fact that they look so alike, but that they are exactly 12 years apart, bookending the 70s.

I didn't sleep a lot last night because I was up late reading about these and other PA cases.

I didn't realize that was Penn directed at you, either. I found it on a website where Penn was talking about a number of cases and answering some questions that had apparently been posed to him as some sort of time-saving measure; i.e., like a conference, where he answered them all at once.

whokilledbetsy wrote:

I didn't realize that was Penn directed at you, either. I found it on a website where Penn was talking about a number of cases and answering some questions that had apparently been posed to him as some sort of time-saving measure; i.e., like a conference, where he answered them all at once.

Oh ok. That is fine. Zamantha helped put that together. If you do a second updated version of your book, maybe you can include the question or at least mention the Aardsma - Webster date match. You also have my blanket permission to use my name and any of the research or images I posted here on the Aardsma case. I would also advice asking TheForeigner if you could use the side by side RH/Sketch comp she made. AweShucks is also very good at making such comps.

You have put together a strong case for RH as a serious suspect. With the improvements in technology, they can now get touch DNA from a persons clothes, as they recently did from "DB Cooper"s tie. Were you ever able to get any of RH's things, any clothes, a tie, a hairbrush? You need that one piece of physical evidence that could close the case if RH was the killer.

AK Wilks wrote:

whokilledbetsy wrote:

I didn't realize that was Penn directed at you, either. I found it on a website where Penn was talking about a number of cases and answering some questions that had apparently been posed to him as some sort of time-saving measure; i.e., like a conference, where he answered them all at once.

Oh ok. That is fine. Zamantha helped put that together. If you do a second updated version of your book, maybe you can include the question or at least mention the Aardsma - Webster date match. You also have my blanket permission to use my name and any of the research or images I posted here on the Aardsma case. I would also advice asking TheForeigner if you could use the side by side RH/Sketch comp she made. AweShucks is also very good at making such comps.

You have put together a strong case for RH as a serious suspect. With the improvements in technology, they can now get touch DNA from a persons clothes, as they recently did from "DB Cooper"s tie. Were you ever able to get any of RH's things, any clothes, a tie, a hairbrush? You need that one piece of physical evidence that could close the case if RH was the killer.

I'll definitely do that if I revise the book at some point in the future.

I was not able to obtain any of Rick's personal items. More likely, I don't think it would help. If we assume that Rick's contact to Betsy was limited to his hand touching her as he drove the knife in (he obviously didn't cradle her or keep her from falling and crashing into the bookshelves), then the amount of touch DNA likely to be present is limited at best. Given the nature of the contamination of the crime scene -- her friend Marilee; at least two paramedics, a doctor, and possible other bystanders, etc., did or could have touched her body before or during removal of her clothing -- I doubt they would be able to isolate any useful DNA at all. There's no comparison DNA for Marilee (deceased), the paramedics (deceased), etc. etc. etc.

It's wishful thinking, but that's why getting Rick's personal stuff was never high on my to-do list -- simply because there'd be no verified chain of custody of either Betsy's stuff, or Rick's stuff, to prove that the DNA was clean.

Since he is dead there will never be a prosecution, so chain of custody doesn't matter. If there is a DNA match, that along with the very good circumstantial/MO/psychological case you put together would "close the case" as far as history is concerned.

When I spoke to the Trooper, she told me she sent Betsy's clothes to the FBI to try to get touch DNA. While she was not super optimistic that it would work, she said the things they can do are incredible and they were giving it a high priority try. She was pretty close mouthed but I got hints that there were "stress points" on Betsy's clothes that they think the killer grabbed during the attack and this is where they were concentrating the search for touch DNA. All it takes is one skin cell to get DNA. It can and has been done many times, most recently from DB Cooper's tie that was 40 years old!

So I can only advise that it may be worthwhile to get any personal items of RH's that you can, either to offer to the police to test now and/or to someday do your own private testing. Or at least get the items and hold on to them for possible use at a future date.

AK Wilks wrote:

Since he is dead there will never be a prosecution, so chain of custody doesn't matter. If there is a DNA match, that along with the very good circumstantial/MO/psychological case you put together would "close the case" as far as history is concerned.

When I spoke to the Trooper, she told me she sent Betsy's clothes to the FBI to try to get touch DNA. While she was not super optimistic that it would work, she said the things they can do are incredible and they were giving it a high priority try. She was pretty close mouthed but I got hints that there were "stress points" on Betsy's clothes that they think the killer grabbed during the attack and this is where they were concentrating the search for touch DNA. All it takes is one skin cell to get DNA. It can and has been done many times, most recently from DB Cooper's tie that was 40 years old!

So I can only advise that it may be worthwhile to get any personal items of RH's that you can, either to offer to the police to test now and/or to someday do your own private testing. Or at least get the items and hold on to them for possible use at a future date.

Trust me, I would like to, but these items are few and far between now. It's been almost 10 years since he died. Most of his stuff is scattered to the winds. If you find anything, let me know!

For me the hardest part would be proving it was his. Say you handed me a hairbrush or a shirt. How do I know it's Rick's? How do the police know? And if the DNA doesn't match, is Rick eliminated on that basis, since we don't know that the DNA came from Rick in the first place? That's what I mean by the chain of custody.

I know a guy who has an envelope Rick licked. Police seemed less than interested in retrieving it from him, despite the fact that he wanted to get it to them. My biggest frustration here has been that the police seem to not take this terribly seriously in some aspects.

whokilledbetsy wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:

Since he is dead there will never be a prosecution, so chain of custody doesn't matter. If there is a DNA match, that along with the very good circumstantial/MO/psychological case you put together would "close the case" as far as history is concerned.

When I spoke to the Trooper, she told me she sent Betsy's clothes to the FBI to try to get touch DNA. While she was not super optimistic that it would work, she said the things they can do are incredible and they were giving it a high priority try. She was pretty close mouthed but I got hints that there were "stress points" on Betsy's clothes that they think the killer grabbed during the attack and this is where they were concentrating the search for touch DNA. All it takes is one skin cell to get DNA. It can and has been done many times, most recently from DB Cooper's tie that was 40 years old!

So I can only advise that it may be worthwhile to get any personal items of RH's that you can, either to offer to the police to test now and/or to someday do your own private testing. Or at least get the items and hold on to them for possible use at a future date.

Trust me, I would like to, but these items are few and far between now. It's been almost 10 years since he died. Most of his stuff is scattered to the winds. If you find anything, let me know!

For me the hardest part would be proving it was his. Say you handed me a hairbrush or a shirt. How do I know it's Rick's? How do the police know? And if the DNA doesn't match, is Rick eliminated on that basis, since we don't know that the DNA came from Rick in the first place? That's what I mean by the chain of custody.

I know a guy who has an envelope Rick licked. Police seemed less than interested in retrieving it from him, despite the fact that he wanted to get it to them. My biggest frustration here has been that the police seem to not take this terribly seriously in some aspects.

Maybe get an item that belonged to him, and that a Family member kept. Also, correct me if I am wrong, at the time of his death,was RH living with another man(his lover)?

whokilledbetsy: "I know a guy who has an envelope Rick licked. Police seemed less than interested in retrieving it from him, despite the fact that he wanted to get it to them. My biggest frustration here has been that the police seem to not take this terribly seriously in some aspects."

AK Wilks: My advice is tell him to put it in a plastic baggie and send it to you. For a reasonable price you can get a private lab to do an analysis, they may give a discount if you tell them it is a high profile case and you will mention their name in any media reports. If they get one strong DNA pattern off it, you will have a paper report of a DNA profile you can send to police. And IF they did get DNA of Betsy's clothes, they can do a comparison.

Right now I am trying to get an envelope from my POI, at least you got one.

morf13 wrote:

whokilledbetsy wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:

Since he is dead there will never be a prosecution, so chain of custody doesn't matter. If there is a DNA match, that along with the very good circumstantial/MO/psychological case you put together would "close the case" as far as history is concerned.

When I spoke to the Trooper, she told me she sent Betsy's clothes to the FBI to try to get touch DNA. While she was not super optimistic that it would work, she said the things they can do are incredible and they were giving it a high priority try. She was pretty close mouthed but I got hints that there were "stress points" on Betsy's clothes that they think the killer grabbed during the attack and this is where they were concentrating the search for touch DNA. All it takes is one skin cell to get DNA. It can and has been done many times, most recently from DB Cooper's tie that was 40 years old!

So I can only advise that it may be worthwhile to get any personal items of RH's that you can, either to offer to the police to test now and/or to someday do your own private testing. Or at least get the items and hold on to them for possible use at a future date.

Trust me, I would like to, but these items are few and far between now. It's been almost 10 years since he died. Most of his stuff is scattered to the winds. If you find anything, let me know!

For me the hardest part would be proving it was his. Say you handed me a hairbrush or a shirt. How do I know it's Rick's? How do the police know? And if the DNA doesn't match, is Rick eliminated on that basis, since we don't know that the DNA came from Rick in the first place? That's what I mean by the chain of custody.

I know a guy who has an envelope Rick licked. Police seemed less than interested in retrieving it from him, despite the fact that he wanted to get it to them. My biggest frustration here has been that the police seem to not take this terribly seriously in some aspects.

Maybe get an item that belonged to him, and that a Family member kept. Also, correct me if I am wrong, at the time of his death,was RH living with another man(his lover)?

No, he never lived with another man. He had male friends but no one who lived with him at the time of his death. That's another reason I'm not sold on Chris's assertion that he was "Gay." He never had a relationship with an adult male of his own age. It was always boys. Chris doesn't understand the various degrees and types of pedophile and hebephile behavior. It's very common to have a married or straight heterosexual who is also a homosexual pedophile. Witness the allegations against Jerry Sandusky.

AK Wilks wrote:

whokilledbetsy: "I know a guy who has an envelope Rick licked. Police seemed less than interested in retrieving it from him, despite the fact that he wanted to get it to them. My biggest frustration here has been that the police seem to not take this terribly seriously in some aspects."

AK Wilks: My advice is tell him to put it in a plastic baggie and send it to you. For a reasonable price you can get a private lab to do an analysis, they may give a discount if you tell them it is a high profile case and you will mention their name in any media reports. If they get one strong DNA pattern off it, you will have a paper report of a DNA profile you can send to police. And IF they did get DNA of Betsy's clothes, they can do a comparison.

Right now I am trying to get an envelope from my POI, at least you got one.

I've asked several times, but he would like to give it directly to the police, and they haven't bothered to call him and retrieve it, from what I can discern.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Murder-at-Penn-State-Who-killed-Betsy-Aardsma/bV79AJeURkGVo4q2abZHeg.cspx

Link to PA TV news story on the case.

It's good that the story is still being kept in the public eye.

I read the web sleuths threads the other night, and I didn't know that, prior to 2008, there really was little information on the web, and that you have been responsible for a great chunk of it since.

I look forward to your second book about Haefner.