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 Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner

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PostSubject: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:09 pm

This thread will be for discussion of the Betsy Aardsma murder, the excellent new book by Derek Sherwood "Who Killed Betsy?", possible links to the murder of Cheri Jo Bates and the Zodiac, and a focus on major suspect RICHARD HAEFNER.

Thanks to ENTROPY, we are very glad to have "Who Killed Betsy" author DEREK SHERWOOD here as a new member, under the name "whokilledbetsy". Entropy and myself had a discussion about the case and Richard Haefner, which whokilledbetsy joined in on, so I will transfer the main points of that discussion here. I added a few new comments.

--------------------------------------------

AK WILKS:

I suggest you get the book by Derek Sherwood "Who Killed Betsy". That has got the whole story on Haefner, who is indeed a major suspect in the case.

First of all, the "relative" here is not a wife, boyfriend, brother or father. He is Chris Haefner, and he is not a close relative. As I understand it, he is a second cousin, once removed. He relates a story of an argument between his aunt and RH were the aunt said "You killed that girl!". He implies that RH made statements tending to show guilt but does not remember the words. Overall, I find this an interesting bit of evidence but not real impressive.

It shows that the aunt thought Haefner killed Betsy - but it is not a confession from Haefner.

I will just say that at certain points I was told that Chris Haefner was interested in getting money for his story, or money for clothes he said were RH's, and told some conflicting stories and then would have new information. I personally put Chris Haefner in the category of someone with an interesting story but IMO just not super reliable. I think you will agree we have seen relatives come forward in the Zodiac case, sometimes well intentioned, sometimes questionable.

I can also say at one point Derek was pretty hot on him and saying he could be the big break in the case. In the end Chris Haefner only occupies about 3 pages in Derek's 200 page book. Chris Haefner does confirm that RH was gay and a pedophile. Which to me makes him less likely to have killed an adult female.

The most compelling aspects of the case against RH are:

1. He looks like the wavy hair glasses sketch.
2. He was at PSU at the time.
3. He apparently took Betsy out for coffee once.
4. He was violent and on two instances did attack a woman with his fists.

However, both of those instances were fights, were he felt he was provoked. In one case it seemed to him a woman was trying to steal his dog. She thought the dog was lost. He did hit her and got 30 days in jail.

At one point both Morf and I (and Derek a little bit) looked at RH as both an Aardsma suspect and a Zodiac suspect. Certainly we were interested in the RH at the bottom of the Riverside poem thought to be connected to the Bates case. And I passed this info and other info on RH to the State Police. But eventually it became clear geography wise and timeline wise that RH could probably not be Zodiac. I do think it possible that RH could have killed Betsy. But I am far from convinced, and remain interested in Zodiac/TK as a suspect.

Entropy I would suggest you buy Derek's book and read it, and then post on Haefner as a suspect in Non Zodiac Crimes (or maybe Possible Zodiac Victims) and we can have a good discussion on the book and RH. Maybe even you or others can turn up some new info on him. He is a serious suspect.

I think Derek wrote a very good book that I advise anyone interested in the case to read.

Graphic below on Richard Haefner and Sketch by THEFOREIGNER:




http://www.whokilledbetsy.org/haefner.html

"He (Richard Charles Haefner ) wore glasses at times but did not need them all of the time, and later switched to contact lenses."

ENTROPY: Thank you, AK. It's a shame if Chris Haefner is an unreliable witness because his testimony does seem to be potentially important. Honestly, I think his proximity rather than his familial relationship is what's important here. Was he really there on Nevin St. in Lancaster, PA to potentially overhear a conversation between Haefner and his mother? I have no idea....

I do appreciate your open-mindedness to consider all possibilities. I actually helped to review Derek's book before it was published so I have read the book. I don't know Derek personally but I found him to be sincere and unlikely to make up evidence to sell a book. The circumstantial case, IMO, is less than perfect but extremely compelling and we agree it's worth further investigation. I actually disagree with Derek about potential motive. I'm sure you've read that one of the main theories of investigators was that Betsy Aardsma may have accidentally run across a homosexual liaison in the library at PSU. My theory regarding Haefner would run along those lines. He was not convicted of any sexual offenses but I think there is little doubt that he was a homosexual pedophile.

AK WILKS: Yes you can ask him [Derek] to join. I would like it if he did. He does not have a major interest in the Zodiac case. But he is welcome to start a thread on Aardsma and Haefner.

Derek did include some info from me and morf in his book, however, he only spends a few pages on it and makes it clear he does not think Zodiac or TK were likely involved in the Aardsma murder. He never mentions me or morf by name he just calls us "internet sleuths". But I am glad he included some info on the possible Zodiac and/or TK connections, even though he does not think they are likely correct.

I don't know if Chris Haefner was where he said he was to hear the argument. You either believe him or not.

I just don't think RH or any gay man would kill Betsy for witnessing illicit sex. Doesn't make sense to me. If RH did "date" Betsy once maybe there could be some kind of fixation there, but again, he appears to be gay and focused on young boys, not adult women.

Derek is a good researcher and wrote a good book. Now the police need to do their part. They were trying to get touch DNA off Betsy's clothes, but we don't know if they were successful or not.

WHO KILLED BETSY [DEREK SHERWOOD]: Hi all, just wanted to pop in as Entropy invited me.

Looks like a pretty good discussion so far, I've been reading to get up to speed.

One thing I will say is that Rick wasn't gay -- that's a misconception. Rick was a homosexual hebephile -- meaning, he preferred young boys. There are a number of other people Rick dated. I don't think gay sex was the motivation here, but rather obsession and a perceived relationship gone wrong. Look at Yeardley Love and George Huguely. Back then, there were no such things in the lexicon as stalkers, etc. Boys will be boys and all that. Rick was a classic stalker.

Chris believes Rick to be gay because he allegedly molested young boys. This is an oversimplification on Chris's part. I was never able to find a single adult male who would claim or could claim to have been in a relationship with Rick. I found several women he was friendly with or tried to date.

I do believe Chris's story, as he did work for Rick back at that time. Not only did he work for him -- I have a copy of the expunged trial transcript from Rick's 1976 molestation trial, and Chris testified on his behalf. I have been able to independently verify other things Chris has said. Is he sometimes wrong on the facts? Sure. Does he sometimes embellish? (I was the best rock-cracker Rick ever had!) Sure. But his story was so simple that it is hard to believe it's a cash-in. Besides, the interest level in the book, while high, has not generated any type of cash.

Chris's behavior after the fact has acted more like a cash-in, where he claims to have documents that prove his story taken from Rick's house, that he will sell to the highest bidder. But when I first contacted Chris, he was shocked, surprised, and more than a little reticent to tell the story.

I am working on a book on Haefner's 1976 molestation trial. The information from this trial is largely missing -- but I Have managed to compile it all, regardless. The story is one of community prejudice, shoddy police work, judicial and prosecutorial misconduct, and a possible conspiracy. There remain real questions as to whether or not Rick molested the two boys at all.

It's going to be a bit denser read than "Who Killed Betsy" simply because there are so many things going on. I have second-hand evidence that Rick did molest at least one child, but I have never found him myself. As expected, I found very few people who would confess to having been molested, but it seems as though, aside from some allegations in the mid-1960s, there was little hard evidence to suggest that Rick was an active child molester. Compare his behavior to Sandusky's alleged blatant molestations and even rapes, and you'll see what I mean.

Additionally, I'd like to clear up the issue of two men. There seems to have been only one man, a very poor composite produced by Erdley's recollection, and two very specific composites produced from Uafinda and the woman at the check-out counter in the front of Pattee.

The things Erdley remembers are jumbled up with what happened later, and even under numerous hypnotic recollection sessions, she was almost completely useless to police.

Uafinda was much more accurate, as was the man at the copy machine, Mr. Allen.


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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:38 pm

Derek was kind enough to send me an advanced copy of the book, which I enjoyed. Although there ARE some paralells between the Aardsma & Bates cases, I have drifted away from the idea that the cases are related.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:49 pm

In my opinion, Rick committed the Aardsma murder because of his frustration with his relationship, or perceived relationship, with Betsy. I believe that he was acting impulsively and that it happened without much forethought. Rick's MO was generally to act first, think later.

You mention that he hit a woman in Delaware -- that's not entirely correct. She scolded him for leaving his dog unattended. He exchanged words with her. She went to her car, and he decided to follow her. He smashed a wine bottle on the fender of her vehicle, pulled her bodily out of the through the driver's side window and proceeded to beat and kick her until he had done @ $37,000 in damage to her face (reconstructive surgery bill). It went a bit beyond him hitting her, it was unpremeditated, and it could have ended quite differently. In that case, he didn't even care that there were witnesses to what he had done. Broad daylight, shopping center parking lot.

The Bates case seems to have been planned to a much greater extent, and is much more violent, leading me to believe that it was even more personal.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:19 pm

I reread that part of your book and I agree, it was a severe beating. He also struck that woman at the gem show.

If I could make a suggestion, since the majority of people here have no idea who Richard Haefner was, maybe you could do a couple of posts telling us a little about who he was, how he came to the attention of the police and some of the strange things about him. And also a little on who Betsy Aardsma was, how she was killed and what else we know about the case.

QUESTION: Betsy's roommate Sharon Brandt confirms that Haefner did come over a few times to talk to Betsy. And we have Haefner's statement that they went on three "dates" - for ice cream, bowling and dinner. Does anyone else confirm the three dates?

When Betsy was killed it was a huge story, and Haefner strikes me as lonely, a braggart and also wanting to cover up he is a homosexual pedophile. Could the truth be that he and Betsy were very casual friends, went out as friends a time or two, but that Betsy was always devoted to her boyfriend/fiance, and that it is an after the fact exaggeration for Haefner to call Betsy his "girlfriend" and say they "dated" several times?

Also you want to mention the strange story of how Haefner showed up at the place of girl who was barely an aquantince and seem fixated on her? Because that may show that even if I am right and the relationship between Haefner and Aardsma was minor, he may have distorted it in his mind prior to the murder, and thus could be a suspect as a stalker.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:52 pm

AK,

I think it's interesting that RH and TK share a lot of psychological similarities. They were both extremely intelligent, yet socially clueless in many ways, especially in the dating arena. I can totally understand your interest in Ted K. as a suspect here. I actually think it would be more significant if Haefner's claim that he "dated" Betsy Aardsma turned out to be false as making up an imaginary relationship would seem to be hallmark of a true stalker.

Perhaps Derek could provide a link to one of the newspaper articles which summarizes the case against RH and then expand on that?
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:02 pm

Right, the Gem show attack. There were some other incidents that didn't make their way into the book, just because there were so many...Like the time he got into the elevator with someone he had just faced off with in court. The man and his pregnant fiancee were in the elevator as well. He was angry at the man...but he took his umbrella and began beating the stomach of the pregnant woman who was completely unconnected to the case in any way.

Haefner's mother admitted that she covered for him, "I kept him out of jail," she bragged to one of Rick's employees in the 1970s. Police sent someone from the Lancaster barracks to verify his story with his mom -- she told police he was at home that weekend, but he wasn't. That, combined with the story he told them, was enough to clear him based on the simple policework available at the time. However, they did interview him twice, passing him up to a higher-level interviewer, which tells me that he set off some flags.

I would suggest rather than just relinking to links that may end up dead, anyone who wants to check out the Links page on Who Killed Betsy website (won't let me post links for 7 days) will be able to see some of the Haefner stories. The stories from the State College Magazine in January, 2009 and also the one from the Lancaster Sunday News in October of 2010 are good Haefner primers.

No one can confirm his dates with her, unfortunately. I agree, they may have been trumped up -- all the more reason why he could have been a stalker.

I don't feel like Haefner had any need to cover up his pedophilia at that point -- it was largely unknown outside of Lancaster. To other classmates he seemed polite, normal, a bit aloof, but otherwise unremarkable. Why cover up something no one notices?

The story of the girl at college is another good one. I'll give the short version so there's reason for folks to read the book. Basically, he showed up at the dorm of a woman he had met only briefly, almost half a year and several hundred miles away from his home, to profess his love for her. Like Betsy, she was short, with brown hair. Had aspirations to join the peace corps and go to Africa. She threatened to call the police and he left, and her family notified his advisor, Dr. Wright, since they were friends with him. Unfortunately, this may have set him up for Betsy's murder. If she threatened to tell police, etc., he may have become enraged -- two bad reports to his professor within little more than a year, year and a half? I suspect he would have had some serious explaining to do. Another possible motive -- kill her to cover up his own strange behavior and prevent repercussions of his actions.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:26 pm

Wow Derek, seems you left no stones uncovered digging into Haefner, good job. Did you ever have any contact with Trooper Barrows? Anything come of it? The one thing that still interests me is the letter that was mailed from Atlanta about Bety's murder. If I recall, you stated you had seen it with your own eyes. I was hoping to as well, but never did. The interesting 'possible' Zodiac connection there is the fact that there were letter(s) postmarked in Atlanta, around the same time, by somebody claiming to be Zodiac.

Also interesting, was that poem on the desk at Penn State, like the Bates case- although, I am sure that many college desks had writing, poems, etc on them

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:39 pm

I've talked to Barrows a few times, but it was typically all give and no take, from my perspective. I provided her with Haefner info, she thanked me and gave me nothing in return. Same way it was with the previous investigator in the case.

I did not see the letter myself but was told by a retired officer what was said in it. It was not addressed to the State Police IIRC but was addressed to one of the PSP officers care of Campus Security at the Boucke Building which was the temporary PSP headquarters during the investigation. Obviously, not a Zodiac thing -- because someone would have had to have known the officer's name, as well as the fact that the state police had been stationed at the Boucke building, and not the regular state police barracks. If it was Zodiac, he would have had to either be a Penn Stater, or have hung around for several months while it all took place. I forget how long PSP had use of that building but it was well into 1970 if not 1971-72.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:32 pm

Derek,

Can you perhaps discuss the whole episode of Haefner's interaction with Dr. Wright after Betsy Aardsma's murder?
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:49 pm

WHOKILLEDBETSY (DEREK): "I would suggest rather than just relinking to links that may end up dead, anyone who wants to check out the Links page on Who Killed Betsy website (won't let me post links for 7 days) will be able to see some of the Haefner stories. The stories from the State College Magazine in January, 2009 and also the one from the Lancaster Sunday News in October of 2010 are good Haefner primers."

AK Wilks:

http://www.whokilledbetsy.org/pg4.html Has links to many articles on Aardsma case

http://www.whokilledbetsy.org/images/article6.pdf 10-11/09 The Penn Stater "Who Killed Betsy Aardsma?" Describes suspect as early 20's. blond hair, khaki pants, light jacket.

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/single/?tx_ttnews[pointer]=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=50&tx_ttnews[backPid]=2&cHash=fe3b6029e7 State College Magazine Jan 2009 "Murder in the Core" Article mentioned by Derek, contains info on HAEFNER

http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/299298_Who-killed-Betsy-Aardsma-.html Lancaster Sunday News October 2010 "Who killed Besty Aardsma" Article mentioned by Derek lotso finfo on HAEFNER

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:26 pm

Essentially, Haefner showed up around dinnertime, which was at that time approximately 6:00 PM for the Wright family, on the night of the murder. He was out of breath, he had not driven to Wright's house, but run or walked. IIRC it is roughly a three-mile distance to Wright's house at that time.

Haefner is upset about a girl he knew having been "murdered" in the library that night. He may or may not have said "have you seen the papers." IMHO, if he did, that makes him sound really dumb, because there's no possible way the newspaper would have had it in 40 minutes. At any rate, he and Wright talked about it and Rick left. Wright's wife asked if he thought Rick might have been involved.

Keep in mind that Aardsma was not pronounced dead according to the coroner's report until 5:20 PM. So, all of this transpired in about 40 minutes.

A local TV personality at the time told me he is sure that there was no way that anyone could have heard on radio or TV prior to the following day. How does he know this? He was up all night, talking with the police, waiting for them to either rule it as a suicide, homicide, or accidental death, and to release any further information so he could break the story. He ended up reporting it the following day.

Numerous other individuals who were on campus that night recall hearing sirens, etc., and that someone had been killed in the library, but no one knew 1. name, 2. method, 3. whether it was even true or not.

This alone makes Rick look highly suspicious, but it was never reported to police.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:27 pm

Also, AK, Chris's AUNT is Rick's MOTHER. Therefore, a much closer relationship. I would postulate that mom, who told police he wasn't there that night, would be likely to know that Rick had been involved, rather than just suspect. IMHO, the family covered for Rick because they had invested everything into their sons and were not about to let Rick's screw-ups impact his future potential.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:39 pm

Wow.. thanks for starting this thread and linking to that site which I've bookmarked

I look forward to buying the book because this case has always fascinated me - along with Valerie Percy and the Christine Rothschild murder in Wisconsin in 1968.

RH does look good for this, I feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:49 pm

The book is a great read everyone interested in the case should get it. The suspect descriptions in the Percy and Aardsma cases are similar indeed both were said to be wearing plaid shirts.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:40 am

Thanks for the plug, AK. Also, I am working on a book about Haefner's molestation trial. Equally interesting stuff. I hope to have it out by next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:39 am

whokilledbetsy wrote:

This alone makes Rick look highly suspicious, but it was never reported to police.

See... that's one of the biggest reasons why I believe Haefner to be an extremely compelling suspect in this case. Haefner was interviewed by police but virtually none of the suspicious aspects of his personality were known at the time of the interview(s?).

The theory of Betsy interrupting some kind of sexual encounter in the Pattee Library was strongly considered but nobody knew Haefner's apparent proclivities there regarding bringing young boys to PSU. Perhaps Derek can expand on that a bit, relevant or not? Nobody knew about his hair trigger temper toward women in 1969, which later led to at least two episodes of him violently beating women at the slightest provocation. Nobody knew about him running to his advisor's house to report hearing about Betsy's murder (possibly before almost anybody else knew about it). Nobody knew that he may have later implicated himself to his mother, which was overheard by another relative. Nobody knew that he would have a complete psychological meltdown over the next half dozen years.

If any of this stuff was known at the time of his police interviews about the case, Haefner would have likely been at the top of the list of potential suspects. Instead, he was a gifted PhD. student who simply reported a casual relationship with Betsy Aardsma prior to her death. No wonder why LE focused more on Betsy Aardsma's boyfriend at the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:11 pm

entropy wrote:
whokilledbetsy wrote:

This alone makes Rick look highly suspicious, but it was never reported to police.

See... that's one of the biggest reasons why I believe Haefner to be an extremely compelling suspect in this case. Haefner was interviewed by police but virtually none of the suspicious aspects of his personality were known at the time of the interview(s?).

The theory of Betsy interrupting some kind of sexual encounter in the Pattee Library was strongly considered but nobody knew Haefner's apparent proclivities there regarding bringing young boys to PSU. Perhaps Derek can expand on that a bit, relevant or not? Nobody knew about his hair trigger temper toward women in 1969, which later led to at least two episodes of him violently beating women at the slightest provocation. Nobody knew about him running to his advisor's house to report hearing about Betsy's murder (possibly before almost anybody else knew about it). Nobody knew that he may have later implicated himself to his mother, which was overheard by another relative. Nobody knew that he would have a complete psychological meltdown over the next half dozen years.

If any of this stuff was known at the time of his police interviews about the case, Haefner would have likely been at the top of the list of potential suspects. Instead, he was a gifted PhD. student who simply reported a casual relationship with Betsy Aardsma prior to her death. No wonder why LE focused more on Betsy Aardsma's boyfriend at the time.

I don't think I need to expand on it much more than you already have. I couldn't have said it better myself. Smile Nobody had any reason to suspect, in 1969, that Rick was anything but a clean-cut, conservative, establishment Catholic boy who was on his way to a Ph.D. in geology and all of the great things that came with it. Sure, he claimed to have dated her, but what difference did it make? His credentials were in order and his own mother could vouch for him being home in Lancaster City the night in question. I think the police passed him over as a result of that -- even though, something must have gotten their dander up, because they did pass him up the chain, to a second interview with a higher-level investigator.

That's a huge part of the reason I can't fault police in this. I had 42 years of hindsight to figure this all out. They had just what they had at the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:12 pm

On a side note, I have trouble believing there was a boy involved in this simply because no one remembered seeing anyone who would have been of the age Haefner was interested in.

I think this was about Rick and his obsession with Betsy. Or perhaps she caught him looking at porn, or something. But I think it was more obsession and rejection than anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:30 pm

whokilledbetsy wrote:
On a side note, I have trouble believing there was a boy involved in this simply because no one remembered seeing anyone who would have been of the age Haefner was interested in.

I think this was about Rick and his obsession with Betsy. Or perhaps she caught him looking at porn, or something. But I think it was more obsession and rejection than anything.

I tend to agree with you on this point. In other words, IF it was Haefner I don't think Betsy caught him with a boy or a man, it was because Haefner was stalking her.

Entropy, it is true that areas of the library had instances of gay men meeting for sex, and there was gay pornography found nearby. Investigators have pursued this angle, and that is good. It certainly should be looked into and considered.

But as Derek points out in his book, if Betsy caught two men engaged in sex, her likely instinct would be to walk away, and the likely instinct of the man caught would either be to leave or perhaps say 'sorry please don't report this.' I just don't see the brutal and lethal attack being a likely response.

And this was around 4:00 to 5:00 pm, correct? With a few people around...this likely would not have been the best time or place for a sex meet up. Also, right before the attack a man reported hearing a man and women talking in a normal tone of voice. Not two men talking, no sounds of sex and no women yelling at a man or vice versa.

To me the sounds of a man and women talking would be consistent with Haefner talking to Betsy, OR a clean cut college age man approaching Betsy with a routine question such as 'where is this section?'. This approach would be consistent with what many think may have happened with Bates.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:24 pm

My theory actually runs more along the lines of Haefner being caught masturbating to gay porn by Betsy, who he may have dated or been infatuated with. For a guy like Haefner who violently lashed out when women challenged him and later spent years angrily trying to erase the image of himself as a molester through multitudes of frivolous lawsuits, it would not have been a good scenario.

It certainly could have been a premeditated murder while stalking her or a crime of opportunity (randomly encountering her in the book stacks of the library) but why the heck would he choose a library with multiple potential eyewitnesses around? If he was stalking her with the intent of killing her, there would seem to be a lot of more logical, less risky places to act, no?
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:36 pm

All good points but why did someone IMO Zodiac kill Cheri Bates outside a college library? There may be more of a challenge or thrill to killing in public places.

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Dice
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Did Rick work at the same rock shop as the 2 teenaged boys RH was accused of molesting?
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:25 pm

Dice wrote:
Did Rick work at the same rock shop as the 2 teenaged boys RH was accused of molesting?

"Rick" is "RH", Richard Haefner.

Did you mean Chris Haefner? Richard Haefner's cousin/nephew? I think Derek did establish that Chris did do work with Richard, either at the shop and/or at gem shows.

Maybe Derek can clarify.

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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:33 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Dice wrote:
Did Rick work at the same rock shop as the 2 teenaged boys RH was accused of molesting?

"Rick" is "RH", Richard Haefner.

Did you mean Chris Haefner? Richard Haefner's cousin/nephew? I think Derek did establish that Chris did do work with Richard, either at the shop and/or at gem shows.

Maybe Derek can clarify.

Yes, I meant Chris. I thought Richard was RH and Rick was the cousin. I did not mean to suggest something sinister, I was just thinking that Chris may have known the teenaged victims if he worked in the same store when he was a teenager.
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PostSubject: Re: Betsy Aardsma Murder, the book "Who Killed Betsy?", Possible Zodiac Connection and Suspect Richard Haefner   Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:10 am

I bought the e-book today, Amazon has it in British Pounds.

Looking forward to reading it over the weekend.
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