Previously Unreleased Documents

We have now seen that the FBI is willing to release previously unreleased documents pertaining to the Z case. I hope they will continue to be as cooperative. I know we are all aware that there are many more possible Z letters (or at least from a Z hoaxer) out there. I want to use this thread for everyone to suggest which letters we can try to obtain. We need as much info about each letter as possible.

For example:

When writing to the FBI for the BLEEDING KNIFE letter, you cant just say "i need the bleeding knife letter", you need to provide as much info as possible, including dates, who it was sent to, where it was sent from ,etc. The more info we can give, the better. I also suggest that we include requests for the envelopes when possible, as well as request what the current opinion of the FBI is on each letter. The more info we can get the better.

I will start the list of possible Z letters.

I have heard alot of talk from people over at ZK.com about Z writing a letter to the CA DMV Director. I would love to know if that's true, and if so, would love to know what is in that letter. Anybody know the aprox date of that letter, or anything else about it that would help in a FBI request?

First I've heard about the DMV director being the intended recipient. All I previously knew was that the letter was written to the DMV. As far as I'm aware, no other details (date, postmark, etc.) have been made public.

morf13 wrote:

I will start the list of possible Z letters.

I have heard alot of talk from people over at ZK.com about Z writing a letter to the CA DMV Director. I would love to know if that's true, and if so, would love to know what is in that letter. Anybody know the aprox date of that letter, or anything else about it that would help in a FBI request?

I was told that Paul Stine's wife worked for DMV. Also, I seem to recall someone writing (I think it was Howard), that John Hood and his Fiance were murdered down on a beach in southern CA, and their murders sounded alot like Berryessa, Santa Barbara, The Swindles in San Diego, and even Jenner Beach years later, in that all of the victims were couples on a beach area. (Some were stabbed & some were shot).

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that Hood's Fiance , if I recall, worked for the DMV in Santa Barbara. So you have the wife of a def Z victim working at DMV, a possible Z victim working at DMV, and a suspected Z letter sent to DMV. Of course this could all be a coincidence. But we have seen in the past, odd connections between victims, or Family members of victims working at certain companies. Most notably PG&E & Pacific Bell. It would not surprise me of Z did somehow know his victims in one way or another, maybe thru work.

No matter what, I would love to see this DMV letter.

If we could even get a year I will ask for it.

Do we think it was California DMV?

AK Wilks wrote:

If we could even get a year I will ask for it.

Do we think it was California DMV?

I believe it was, but really have very little details.

Did Tom V know about this one?

Any friends of Tom willing to ask him what year it was?

AK Wilks wrote:

Did Tom V know about this one?

Any friends of Tom willing to ask him what year it was?

I already sent a request off for it, without a date...hope they can dig it up without a date.

Morf and AK, Do you both feel it is ok to try to
obtain this letter without talking to Tom first?

He announced the existence of this letter on his
site 2 months ago. He further stated he was in the
process of finding out more about it.

I agree that stuff should be shared within the Z
community but this does not seem like the
correct way to go about it. It is his find
and he should be given the opportunity
to further research it. Just my opinion and
I hope you understand I mean no disrespect.

caresut wrote:

Morf and AK, Do you both feel it is ok to try to
obtain this letter without talking to Tom first?

He announced the existence of this letter on his
site 2 months ago. He further stated he was in the
process of finding out more about it.

I agree that stuff should be shared within the Z
community but this does not seem like the
correct way to go about it. It is his find
and he should be given the opportunity
to further research it. Just my opinion and
I hope you understand I mean no disrespect.

I am perfectly fine with it. Many people here have been banned by Tom, AFTER WE PAID OUR $5 For a lifetime membership. So, again, I am fine with it. He doesnt have a copyright on the Z case. We offered to share stuff with him out of courtesy, and he wrote it off saying he posted it years ago (still wanna see proof of that).

caresut, if Tom really cares about this case being solved eventually, then he should have no problem with anyone else researching possible evidence, regardless of who came up with it. This shouldn't be treated as some kind of race, and, as morf said, he doesn't own a copyright on all things Zodiac. Plus, the information won't be locked up behind a pay window here or on ZKF.

I just think it is a common courtesy.
It just happens to be Tom that found this information.
I would feel the same way and express my opinion
if Mike Butterfield was the one who found out
about the existence of the letter.
Didn't mean to make this a Tom issue, just a right
or wrong issue.

It's cool, caresut, I know you weren't trying to do that. We're not either. I know that when Michael finds a piece of evidence (or item of interest), he doesn't care who works on it. The same goes for just about every researcher/investigator/whatnot I know.

The sharing and convergence of ideas is right...hoarding and hiding is wrong. No one man or woman should control any part of this. It's not a courtesy issue. Everyone has a right to look into any part of this investigation if they want to.

caresut wrote:

Morf and AK, Do you both feel it is ok to try to
obtain this letter without talking to Tom first?

He announced the existence of this letter on his
site 2 months ago. He further stated he was in the
process of finding out more about it.

I agree that stuff should be shared within the Z
community but this does not seem like the
correct way to go about it. It is his find
and he should be given the opportunity
to further research it. Just my opinion and
I hope you understand I mean no disrespect.

Honestly, I feel it os OK to do whatever I want without talking to Tom first.

Tom publicly posted something about this DMV letter. He put it out there.

If it exists, then public records discuss it. We paid for those records as tax payers. And under the Freedom Of Information Act, we have a right to those documents. Tom may have already done a FOIA request. Or may be trying to get it through other methods. Thats fine.

The goal is to solve the case. Period. Anything else is secondary.

When we obtained the "State" and "Bleeding Knife" letters, as promised, we sent them to all major Z sites, including Tom's. Tom's response was to tell me to "piss off" and that he didn't want anything else from us. So be it. We will continue to share all documents obtained with Mike B, Doug Oswell, Howard Davis, Ricardo, Chris Y, Roland and other sites. They will be posted here and at Unazod and other places without copyright or "do not copy" notices. We will not charge people money to see them. We want them to get maximum exposure so that as many people as possible can view them, study and debate them.

We the public have a right to see all these documents. That is all that matters.

caresut wrote:

I just think it is a common courtesy.
It just happens to be Tom that found this information.
I would feel the same way and express my opinion
if Mike Butterfield was the one who found out
about the existence of the letter.
Didn't mean to make this a Tom issue, just a right
or wrong issue.

The other problem is Tom claims he had the State and Bleeding Knife letters a decade ago, but took them down from his site after he decided they were fake. A lot of us doubt that, because nobody, not even long time zk members, recall ever seing them before. But if true, and Tom says it is true, that means he will not post things he decides are fake - even thought the FBI says they may be or even are probably real.

We will post documents and let people decide for themselves if they are real or fake. Also, we will post them at sites that do not require money to join and send them to all sites.

So we have a different agenda and MO then Tom. So it would make no sense to "wait for Tom" to get it.

Well said, AK...well said.

MrBungle wrote:

Well said, AK...well said.

I agree, well said! I think everyone at this forum, no matter who their POI is or favorite suspect, or personal theory, above all else wants to see the case solved. Tom wants to charge $$$ for his findings, so be it. We will share freely what we find on this forum, as well as pass it along to other forums, sites, and researchers.

Tom threw common courtesy out years ago.

It's best to carry on like he doesn't exist that includes sharing information IMO. If its available to the public it's fair game period. He created his world let him live in it.

Well I think AweShucks said it best but I would just like to add that anyone who is trying to keep information to themselves are certainly not in this for the victims.