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 Another possible Z comunication ?

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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Another possible Z comunication ?   Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:30 pm

On Tuesday 1-1-11, Zamantha and I were invited to have lunch with Kevin Fagan ! (We became friends at one of Lyndon Lafferty's interviews this past yr.)
Kevin showed us around the Chronicle, and introduced us as his Zodiac investigators, then he threw in, that we were not any of the crazy Z people LOL. ( I wonder how I pulled that one off ? )

We were shown the box of the Unabomber case ! We were shown the notes taken at the trial. Zamantha took some pictures of those, just for AK .
As soon as she understands her new Mac, she will down load all of the pictures .

Kevin gave us a copy of a unpublished Zodiac Halloween card/ 3 page letter ! I have to say, it is very much like the old Z style printing. The tone was much different than what I have read over the yrs.
I looked closely at it, and found that it was written in a fast manner, not like someone trying to copy z's printing.
This latest Z communication, was written to Robt Graysmith. RG was not interested in seeing it, after all his suspect is deceased.
That is too bad, because the writer was telling him things that only a stalker would know about R.G. This writer told of how he would watch R.G. taking his son to school, and other places.
The writer also made it sound as if he had a split personality, like a part of him had a conscience ? ( That is way off of my thoughts about the sicko Z man )
This card/ letter, was dated Oct 27Th 2010 , 40 year anniversary date of the Halloween card sent to Paul Avery. Again , Zamantha will share it asap.
You can judge it for yourselves.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:10 pm

Cool look forward to seeing it. Thanks Zam for taking pics of the Unabomber stuff!
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Boilermaker
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:13 pm

thanks for sharing Sandi - what was your initial reaction when you visited the SFC where a lot of the Z activity started?
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Part of San Francisco's History   Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:01 pm

Boilermaker wrote:
thanks for sharing Sandi - what was your initial reaction when you visited the SFC where a lot of the Z activity started?

It took me back to a time when Zodiac was very involved in writing mostly to the S.F. Chronicle. I knew that Herb Cain was a icon there, but seeing his plaque, the bronze bust of him, and the actual typewriter he used with one of his letters still in it, magnified it for me. I wondered if the Zodiac had ever walked where I had walked that day ? Did Z know that Paul Stine was going to work there ?

I thought about the many letters that I had written to Paul Avery about the Zodiac, and the Z watch case that I had seen in a window off of Willow pass rd in Concord ca. Which ended up changing what LE first thought about the Z logo being a gun sight. Paul Avery forwarded my letters to Robt. Graysmith, and that is how I ended up in his Zodiac Unmasked book.

My feelings towards Graysmith, is very different than most. He saved my life by writing the Z book . Jan 88, I was able to recognize my stalker , because R.G. gave the description of what Kathleen Johns saw the abductor had on that frightful night. My stalker had the audacity to come into my work wearing those same clothes. And to get me alone, to hear his taunting robot voice.( Sorry I tend to write the things that go though my head when I post. )
But to put it in a nut shell , I had a many different emotions while at the Chronicle. Its a beautiful historical building. My thanks to Kevin Fagan for inviting us, I will be forever grateful to him.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:01 pm

I also would like to see it, Kevin had mentioned he would pass it along to me a while back, but I never did see it.
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Zamantha
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:04 pm

morf13 wrote:
I also would like to see it, Kevin had mentioned he would pass it along to me a while back, but I never did see it.

I'm trying to load it now...with no such luck. Please read thread on computer posting issues and see if you or anyone can help. Thanksssssssss :-)
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bentley
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:56 am

Posting for Zamantha. I have not read it yet.. Thanks Sandy and Zam!












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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:08 am

Cool!

I'm 99% sure I know who wrote this!

silent for now...
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Qz1
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:19 am

Perez?
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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:31 am

Qz1 wrote:
Perez?

Don't know about that....although it sure comes across as someone like her. Let's just say we've "communicated".
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:41 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Qz1 wrote:
Perez?

Don't know about that....although it sure comes across as someone like her. Let's just say we've "communicated".

Cant see the envelope too well, where was it postmarked?
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:09 pm

It was mailed from San Bernardino , But that could just be a place he was driving through ?

I have re read the letters a few times now, to try and make some sense of them.
"This is only my opinion", and understand that I can't help but compare these letters to my poi ( sorry ).
This person is insane for starters, clever yes.
He, and I say "he" , because I don't feel this is from a female at all. The writer was telling RG, that he was sitting in the back seat of his car, as a "invisible" person. (I am very sure that RG would have seen a stranger in his car, Geez that is a no brainer ?)

A part of this writer feels that he can change into a female, or he is gay ? The little girl was imaginary, I think ?
The paragraph where he wrote : I knew it was you. But said it was a old man with his grandson. So he wouldn't harm you. Robert

He was saying that his other personality,( The bad one) would have harmed Robert ,if he didn't try to make it seem as if Robert was someone else.

I only wish that Robt Graysmith would read these , I would like to know if in fact he did go to the dry cleaners on Thursday's ? Even though the writer wasn't sure if it was Thursday's or not. It seemed it would be on a week day, because he then mentions the Chronicle. But the one thing that he mentioned more than once was that RG went to the wharf at lunch time. If that turns out to be true, then it is someone who did watch RG. That to me is pretty scary, even if its some other nut case. I don't remember RG ever saying that the Z's writing was beautiful ?

The printing is very much like the Z's, but I found it odd that he would use the words "wouldn't"and couldn't, instead of would not, could not. That is unusual for the Z to do that. Z mostly wrote in a formal manner. This could be a forgery , because the z didn't always use the 3 stroke k, like he is in these letters. His left margin was even in the letters that the z had written in the past, these are not. My poi's hands are shaky now ,so unless he has meds that can stop that from happening, it is not my poi .

It just came to me ,that the date of these letters, are two days before Lyndon's book party last yr ! I don't know if it was in the news papers ?

There are a lot of letters in these letters, that are spot on, so I won't poo-poo it yet.
What is missing if it were a copy cat, is "This is the Zodiac speaking "and there is not a Z logo anywhere.
I would think that a copy cat would use something that everyone knows the z used ? The three stars at the bottom of shattered remains, must mean something ,but what I have no idea ? The stamp on the envelope has 3 stars at the top of the purple hart stamp. It is straight ,and not like other Z stamps.

Have any of you Googled Philip Glass and Dead things ? I did this morning , it is something that I can see the Z listening to. I liked it very much myself, also The hours.
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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:21 pm

A San Bernadino post mark fits. Wink

Sandy--I think this person was saying they were in the back seat of "Zodiac's" car...not Graysmith's. They are saying they saw RG's son in RG's car--so this person told "Zodiac" RG was an old man, etc. so he would not harm RG and his son.

This is what rings of good ole "little Debbie"(not that I think the letter writer is Debbie). This person is saying they wrote the letters....not that they were Zodiac.
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:47 pm

Tahoe, That sure makes a lot of sense, thanks you could be right.
Z is someone who enjoys making everyone wonder, so I am not sure about any of it yet.
If it was Deb P ,I wonder why she would try and make it look so Zodiac like, when she is pushing for the z to be her dad , who is dead ?
Whom ever it is ,I think they have a lot of very serous mental issues. Each time I read these, I find different things.

I just sent LL a Email to find out if his party last yr ,was announced in any news papers ?
Its another odd coincidence , the timing of this . Also that LL received something, that brought LE racing to his home about the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:23 pm

Here we go again with the SAN BERNARDINO clues. Why does that town keep popping up? That writing looks nothing like ZODE'S who lives there in San Bernardino. By the way, I may have missed it, what date and year was ot postmarked?
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:28 pm

My first thoughts is this is a copycat trying to immitate Zodiac's writing. The more I look at it, I see some similarities to Z, like the AND aymbol, and the dotted letter i, and a few other things. Also, the lower case checkmark 'r'. The lower case d is much neater then all of Zodiac's, and it does not almost lie on its side like Zodiac's. I also see some similarities in this writing when compared to some of the 'unconfirmed' Zodiac letters that are posted on the forum, which were obtained under the freedom of info act from the FBI. I will have to look closer.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:46 pm

compare some of the letter 'f' and the letter 'd' in this letter, against the BLEEDING KNIFE letter:







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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:54 pm

Also, compare aginst this:


I see alot of similarities. Does anybody else?
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:57 pm

Yes I do see some similarity between Bleeding Knife/State is in Trouble and the 2010.

But I feel very strong that this 2010 letter is (A) Not from Zodiac and (B) Was done by a woman.
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:26 pm


Tanks for posting those letters and card.

Ipost this which I just posted over at Zodiackiller.com .

And I can see that Qz1 on page one of this thread also had the same thought, but anyway here is my thoughs:


I agree that the handwriting could resemble some of the Zodiac letters handwritings.

However I tend to belive that the writer could be Deborah Perez, who in 2009 claimed that her father Guy Ward Hendrickson was the Zodiac, and the SHE HERSELF wrote the letters.

Deborah Perez live close to the Riverside/ San Bernadino area, and as I understand it, that is werefrom the letters were sent.

And the letters saying that "I was a little girl" and "I was in the back seat" etc all things that DP claimed, and the letter saying "I tried to tell them, if only they choose to listen" That would also fit DP.

I could easely imagin that she has lost her mind after all that happened following her announcement that he father was the Zodiac killer and that she herself helped him etc, and then after police etc checked out her "evidence" nothing turned out to prove her claims to be true.

Just my humble opinion.
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Wasn't Z thought to have effeminate ways ?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:50 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Yes I do see some similarity between Bleeding Knife/State is in Trouble and the 2010.

But I feel very strong that this 2010 letter is (A) Not from Zodiac and (B) Was done by a woman.


Experts over the yrs, have said the same thing about some of the Zodiac's letters, being written by a woman.
Especially the card sent to Donna Lass's sister Mary. I am still open to it being a possible Z comunication, even though I think the tone of the letters are very different. I also believe that there have been other real z letters that were tossed, because they were thought to be fakes.

If it weren't for the bloody piece of Stine's shirt with a letter, the police would not have believed it was the Z who shot Paul Stine. Z changes with the wind, so who really knows for sure ?
I can understand the people who have a poi's, who are either dead or in jail , sure they would have to think these are fake.
I happen to believe the Z is very much alive, still killing from time to time, but like he said, is not telling anyone who or when. This sort of killer , (I have been told ) can't just stop killing. He enjoys the kill, and the fear he sees in the faces of his victims, before he kills them.
The blitz attacks he did in his earlier yrs, stopped giving him satisfaction. He "I believe" did change his MO , and has spent some time with his latest victims. "Please "remember, that these are just my feelings and thoughts, not anything I can prove are facts. Only the Z himself knows for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:46 pm

This letter was either written by Perez or someone pretending to be Perez.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:05 pm

Luke68 wrote:
This letter was either written by Perez or someone pretending to be Perez.
Yes I agree.
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Mocking   Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:14 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Luke68 wrote:
This letter was either written by Perez or someone pretending to be Perez.
Yes I agree.

It wouldn't be unlike the z to mock Perez. I just don't see her being clever enough to pull it off. She never really knew the case well enough to even get her dates straight. She thought Cheri Jo was stabbed on Halloween night ? Believed Jim Phillips was dead, ( that really blew it for her ). She said she was his cousin, oops !
Myself and a few others set her up for that fall, on the Opord site.
I just can't see her writing these letters, I do see the Z doing it, with out a problem. If someone was to trace the Zodiac's printing, it would be detected real fast. These were done so fast, that mistakes were made because of it.
Wouldn't a copy cat draw at least one Z logo ? There are certain things missing, that a copy cat would have to be sure to put in these letters. Its because they are missing ,that I tend to think its a true Z communication.

I am wondering if someone in Vallejo let him know that Lyndon was having a book party on Halloween ? And he was driving back from southern Calif. so not to miss it ?
Lyndon received a typed Z letter, two days after the party was announced in the VTH. With it was some Z evidence, that only the z would have access to having. It is apparently a match to other police evidence !
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PostSubject: Re: Another possible Z comunication ?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:33 pm

sandy betts wrote:

Lyndon received a typed Z letter, two days after the party was announced in the VTH. With it was some Z evidence, that only the z would have access to having. It is apparently a match to other police evidence !

Sandy, is this evidence public knowledge, and if not so, do you know why?
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