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 Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:12 am

There has been alot of discussions and debates as to whether or not the symbols on the 'my name is' cipher were circled 8's or were TAURUS horoscope symbols. This guy is a TAURUS.

Not sure where this pic originated, but it is interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:01 pm

morf13 wrote:
There has been alot of discussions and debates as to whether or not the symbols on the 'my name is' cipher were circled 8's or were TAURUS horoscope symbols. This guy is a TAURUS.

Not sure where this pic originated, but it is interesting.
I remember some speculated that The My Name is cipher referred to Lawrence Kane cause he was a Taurus. From the looks of what you posted I would say there not eights either.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:23 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
morf13 wrote:
There has been alot of discussions and debates as to whether or not the symbols on the 'my name is' cipher were circled 8's or were TAURUS horoscope symbols. This guy is a TAURUS.

Not sure where this pic originated, but it is interesting.
I remember some speculated that The My Name is cipher referred to Lawrence Kane cause he was a Taurus. From the looks of what you posted I would say there not eights either.

If some speculated that Z could be Kane because he was a Taurus, then perhaps, we need to consider other people that were a Taurus, like this guy.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:08 pm

morf13 wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
Pretty wild that this guy is basically a ghost Morf and is there anything on his profession since school ?

Nothing at all!
So far this is a confirmed timeline-

*1966 graduates high school

*1966-1973??????

*1973, marries a girl (residence unknown), and 8 months later, in April 1974 divorces her(in Riverside County)

*1974.....has addresses in Clayton & Vallejo that he uses, and the year 1974, is the last time he uses those addresses (also the same year the Z letters stop)

*1976...marries a girl in San Bernardino. That girl had gotten a divorce in 1972 in SOLANO COUNTY.

1966-1974, I am trying to get more info, but digging for this guys info is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

The only thing I know for sure is that he went to school with Bates, graduated with her, lived in Vallejo, and left the bay area in 1974 when the Z letters stopped to go back down to southern CA (he later moved back to the bay area)



Have you had any luck researching the girls this guy married? If so, maybe they'd lead to some clues. Wonder if you could find out what kind of work they did or if there were any children.

This guy is nice looking imo and was involved in sports so undoubtedly he knew Cheri if they were in the same class (I'm confused about this.) since she was a cheerleader and active in school activities.

He probably wouldn't have had trouble dating girls or making friends so doesn't seem to be a loner type based on this little but very interesting information. The first marriage was short and I'm confused about the second one. Did he marry a divorcee and is he still married or did that one end in divorce like the first one?

All in all, if this guy had been bothering Cheri in any way, Imo she'd have told her friends if not her dad and brother and he probably would have been checked out at the beginning.

Also wondering if he was in the library the night of the murder and if so, was he at the re-creation?
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:57 pm

They also went on that the name Kane comes up as a anagram in the cipher but I agree Morph.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:14 pm

lovethecar wrote:
morf13 wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
Pretty wild that this guy is basically a ghost Morf and is there anything on his profession since school ?

Nothing at all!
So far this is a confirmed timeline-

*1966 graduates high school

*1966-1973??????

*1973, marries a girl (residence unknown), and 8 months later, in April 1974 divorces her(in Riverside County)

*1974.....has addresses in Clayton & Vallejo that he uses, and the year 1974, is the last time he uses those addresses (also the same year the Z letters stop)

*1976...marries a girl in San Bernardino. That girl had gotten a divorce in 1972 in SOLANO COUNTY.

1966-1974, I am trying to get more info, but digging for this guys info is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

The only thing I know for sure is that he went to school with Bates, graduated with her, lived in Vallejo, and left the bay area in 1974 when the Z letters stopped to go back down to southern CA (he later moved back to the bay area)



Have you had any luck researching the girls this guy married? If so, maybe they'd lead to some clues. Wonder if you could find out what kind of work they did or if there were any children.

This guy is nice looking imo and was involved in sports so undoubtedly he knew Cheri if they were in the same class (I'm confused about this.) since she was a cheerleader and active in school activities.

He probably wouldn't have had trouble dating girls or making friends so doesn't seem to be a loner type based on this little but very interesting information. The first marriage was short and I'm confused about the second one. Did he marry a divorcee and is he still married or did that one end in divorce like the first one?

All in all, if this guy had been bothering Cheri in any way, Imo she'd have told her friends if not her dad and brother and he probably would have been checked out at the beginning.

Also wondering if he was in the library the night of the murder and if so, was he at the re-creation?

I am looking into this guy's wives to see what clues I can find about him. He undoubtedly knew Bates...he was from the same town, was in the same class, graduated the same year, and she was a cheerleader, and he was a jock. As a matter of fact, I would love to talk to someone that knew Bates and her boyfriend, Dennis Highland, to see if this guy was friends with Cheri or Dennis.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:10 pm

morf13 wrote:
lovethecar wrote:
morf13 wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
Pretty wild that this guy is basically a ghost Morf and is there anything on his profession since school ?

Nothing at all!
So far this is a confirmed timeline-

*1966 graduates high school

*1966-1973??????

*1973, marries a girl (residence unknown), and 8 months later, in April 1974 divorces her(in Riverside County)

*1974.....has addresses in Clayton & Vallejo that he uses, and the year 1974, is the last time he uses those addresses (also the same year the Z letters stop)

*1976...marries a girl in San Bernardino. That girl had gotten a divorce in 1972 in SOLANO COUNTY.

1966-1974, I am trying to get more info, but digging for this guys info is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

The only thing I know for sure is that he went to school with Bates, graduated with her, lived in Vallejo, and left the bay area in 1974 when the Z letters stopped to go back down to southern CA (he later moved back to the bay area)



Have you had any luck researching the girls this guy married? If so, maybe they'd lead to some clues. Wonder if you could find out what kind of work they did or if there were any children.

This guy is nice looking imo and was involved in sports so undoubtedly he knew Cheri if they were in the same class (I'm confused about this.) since she was a cheerleader and active in school activities.

He probably wouldn't have had trouble dating girls or making friends so doesn't seem to be a loner type based on this little but very interesting information. The first marriage was short and I'm confused about the second one. Did he marry a divorcee and is he still married or did that one end in divorce like the first one?

All in all, if this guy had been bothering Cheri in any way, Imo she'd have told her friends if not her dad and brother and he probably would have been checked out at the beginning.

Also wondering if he was in the library the night of the murder and if so, was he at the re-creation?

I am looking into this guy's wives to see what clues I can find about him. He undoubtedly knew Bates...he was from the same town, was in the same class, graduated the same year, and she was a cheerleader, and he was a jock. As a matter of fact, I would love to talk to someone that knew Bates and her boyfriend, Dennis Highland, to see if this guy was friends with Cheri or Dennis.

Have you checked military records? I'm thinking VietNam was on and guys were being drafted or joining the military. Seven years could have been spent in the military or in college and possibly grad school.

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PostSubject: This POI is challenging   Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:14 am

Along with being a classmate of Cheri Jo's, this guy lived in Vallejo, Clayton, Redding & was a long time resident of Antioch. I saw a message from this POI to an old friend, he wrote the message in May of 2009, and in that message stated he was living in Clayton at the time.

He was a jock in HS; Wrestling, Football & Track and Field. I don't know if he participated in any other sports. We just don't know where he was in the critical years (67-73). Lot's of guys disappeared in those years in Ca. No military record, no work record, 3 ex wives, at least 2 children, 1 stepson.

He's definitely someone that should be treated as a person of interest, maybe he was in the past, and became overlooked. I'm going to try and make contact with Cheri Jo's friends and see if they know anything about this POI.

1966 graduate, athlete, you would think he would have been prime for the draft.

Bay
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:49 am

bayarea60s wrote:
Along with being a classmate of Cheri Jo's, this guy lived in Vallejo, Clayton, Redding & was a long time resident of Antioch. I saw a message from this POI to an old friend, he wrote the message in May of 2009, and in that message stated he was living in Clayton at the time.

He was a jock in HS; Wrestling, Football & Track and Field. I don't know if he participated in any other sports. We just don't know where he was in the critical years (67-73). Lot's of guys disappeared in those years in Ca. No military record, no work record, 3 ex wives, at least 2 children, 1 stepson.

He's definitely someone that should be treated as a person of interest, maybe he was in the past, and became overlooked. I'm going to try and make contact with Cheri Jo's friends and see if they know anything about this POI.

1966 graduate, athlete, you would think he would have been prime for the draft.

Bay

Thanks BAY, a couple corrections...He has only one divorce on file, although I have reason to think he may have two. Also, at least according to the records I have, he did indeed use the Clayton & Vallejo address up until 1974. He then moved out of the bay area back down to southern CA, then moved back to the Clayton area. I will be real interested to see if he was living in Clayton in 1969, based on Z placing the compass on the Phillips 66 map, with a arrow landing directly on Clayton. I am going to get all of his available records as far as land ownership and marriage/divorce records. Also, I am having trouble finding confirmed siblings, but I think I may have found one, a Brother. This guy married a woman in Del Norte County, CA, all the way up north in April, 1974. He was associated with the cities of KLAMATH, and CRESCENT CITY. He then moved to El Dorado County and got divorced there in July of 1975. Finally, with his tail between his legs, he wound up moving back down to RIVERSIDE, and was there in 1994 where I think his parents may have been living. Finally, I have a guy by the same name, and same age, getting arrested in El Dorado County in 1999 for drug posession. He was living in Diamond Springs at the time
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:29 am

Somebody pointed out to me that the symbols used on the "my name is" cipher make up much of this guy's name:
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:08 am

morf13 wrote:
Somebody pointed out to me that the symbols used on the "my name is" cipher make up much of this guy's name:
if you use his middle initial it fits perfectly. Also some other things that you probably noticed as well about this but don't want to say cause it could give his name away.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:29 am

StitchMallone wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Somebody pointed out to me that the symbols used on the "my name is" cipher make up much of this guy's name:
if you use his middle initial it fits perfectly. Also some other things that you probably noticed as well about this but don't want to say cause it could give his name away.

Yeah, and if you look at the last 3 of the cipher, that matches the last 3 of his name, just rearranged, and the first symbol of the cipher, A, is also the first letter of his first name.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:52 am

As much as the cipher leans itself towards containing a name, it can very well be NOT a name. Keep that in mind. It goes without saying that cipher work is fine and exciting but remains secondary with any investigation. It's the dot over the "i", you need the "i" first.

Good work so far.

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:34 pm

morf13 wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Somebody pointed out to me that the symbols used on the "my name is" cipher make up much of this guy's name:
if you use his middle initial it fits perfectly. Also some other things that you probably noticed as well about this but don't want to say cause it could give his name away.

Yeah, and if you look at the last 3 of the cipher, that matches the last 3 of his name, just rearranged, and the first symbol of the cipher, A, is also the first letter of his first name.
Yep both points I was getting at.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:41 pm

Nin wrote:
As much as the cipher leans itself towards containing a name, it can very well be NOT a name. Keep that in mind. It goes without saying that cipher work is fine and exciting but remains secondary with any investigation. It's the dot over the "i", you need the "i" first.

Good work so far.

-Nin

Ordinarily, when looking for random names in a cipher, I would agree. But here Zodiac wrote 'MY NAME IS', so I think it is certainly possible in this instance that his name may be there. But just in case, he still made it a little bit hard and scrambled it a bit. But now, 40 years later with a name to work with, it makes sense that this name could work.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:49 pm

morf13 wrote:
Nin wrote:
As much as the cipher leans itself towards containing a name, it can very well be NOT a name. Keep that in mind. It goes without saying that cipher work is fine and exciting but remains secondary with any investigation. It's the dot over the "i", you need the "i" first.

Good work so far.

-Nin

Ordinarily, when looking for random names in a cipher, I would agree. But here Zodiac wrote 'MY NAME IS', so I think it is certainly possible in this instance that his name may be there. But just in case, he still made it a little bit hard and scrambled it a bit. But now, 40 years later with a name to work with, it makes sense that this name could work.
If there is a solution to the cipher maybe he doesn't leave his name. But the way Zodiac was wouldn't be surprised that he leaves clues to his name in the letters and symbols. That way if LE ever question him on it he can just say its a coincidence.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:43 pm

My 2¢

I doubt the killer would put his real name, unanagrammed, in the MNI cipher. For example, if the cipher read AABBCE, and they hauled A ALLEN in for questioning, might be a bit incriminating.

Is a name contained in the MNI? Dunno, 50/50 my guess.

Is the MNI anagrammed? The symmetry of the MNI, circle in the center, alphas after that, more circles, to non alphas, and 3 alphas, going in both directions (there's a specific term for that which escapes me at the moment), might suggest so. Again, my guess is IF there is a name, it's scrambled somehow.

A name that fits an anagrammed MNI (Melvin M Belli also fits) isn't going to convict any more than an anagrammed Kacynski in the 408, but it doesn't hurt, along with some corroborating evidence, and may lead to solves in other ciphers.



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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:50 pm

bentley wrote:
My 2¢

I doubt the killer would put his real name, unanagrammed, in the MNI cipher. For example, if the cipher read AABBCE, and they hauled A ALLEN in for questioning, might be a bit incriminating.

Is a name contained in the MNI? Dunno, 50/50 my guess.

Is the MNI anagrammed? The symmetry of the MNI, circle in the center, alphas after that, more circles, to non alphas, and 3 alphas, going in both directions (there's a specific term for that which escapes me at the moment), might suggest so. Again, my guess is IF there is a name, it's scrambled somehow.

A name that fits an anagrammed MNI (Melvin M Belli also fits) isn't going to convict any more than an anagrammed Kacynski in the 408, but it doesn't hurt, along with some corroborating evidence, and may lead to solves in other ciphers.




I agree....if this guy is Z, the first letter shown on the cipher is A. (first initial of his first name), last 3 of the cipher NAM also matches the last 3 of his name (in a different order). The middle is is made up of the 3 symbols and is the most mixed up part. Its mixed up enough and scrambled enough, that if you didnt have a name to put in, it wouldnt make sense. But since I have the name to put in, it looks pretty good.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:16 pm

You don't know what Zodiac would do and could have actually put a lot of his name in the symbols to solve the cipher. Again seems like something he would do to mess with LE and etc and if they called him on it just a coincidence.

The solution might be bull or something that leads to crap also but wouldn't put it past him to hide his name in plain sight.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:21 pm

morf13 wrote:
bentley wrote:
My 2¢

I doubt the killer would put his real name, unanagrammed, in the MNI cipher. For example, if the cipher read AABBCE, and they hauled A ALLEN in for questioning, might be a bit incriminating.

Is a name contained in the MNI? Dunno, 50/50 my guess.

Is the MNI anagrammed? The symmetry of the MNI, circle in the center, alphas after that, more circles, to non alphas, and 3 alphas, going in both directions (there's a specific term for that which escapes me at the moment), might suggest so. Again, my guess is IF there is a name, it's scrambled somehow.

A name that fits an anagrammed MNI (Melvin M Belli also fits) isn't going to convict any more than an anagrammed Kacynski in the 408, but it doesn't hurt, along with some corroborating evidence, and may lead to solves in other ciphers.




I agree....if this guy is Z, the first letter shown on the cipher is A. (first initial of his first name), last 3 of the cipher NAM also matches the last 3 of his name (in a different order). The middle is is made up of the 3 symbols and is the most mixed up part. Its mixed up enough and scrambled enough, that if you didnt have a name to put in, it wouldnt make sense. But since I have the name to put in, it looks pretty good.
actually the first couple letters look interesting to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:34 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
You don't know what Zodiac would do and could have actually put a lot of his name in the symbols to solve the cipher. Again seems like something he would do to mess with LE and etc and if they called him on it just a coincidence.

The solution might be bull or something that leads to crap also but wouldn't put it past him to hide his name in plain sight.
By the way love the game Stratego and can't count how many times I beat people walking by my flag hid in plain sight since they thought it was a bomb or etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:03 pm

A while back, (a few years back I think), Tahoe posted this at zk.com-

I don't know if this guy would be a Zodiac suspect, but do a quick read. The names of potential victims in the late 60's and early 70's are some we are quite familiar with. One was killed in the Clayton area--right there where Phillip Garrido (Jaycee Lee Dugard's kidnapper) was at the time.
And, he had the help of his wife. WTF?? can't help but think of Phillips 66!
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkiller_news/H/HUGHES_phillip_joseph_jr.php


She was talking about unsolved murders in CLAYTON area, one of which was that of Cosette Ellison mentioned as a possible Zodiac victim.
"One of the earliest victims on the unsolved list, Ellison disappeared after school on March 3, 1970. She was a sophomore at Campolindo High, the same school Hughes and one of his victims, 19-year-old Maureen Field, attended earlier.Like Field, who vanished in November 1972, Ellison's body was found in a ravine off Morgan Territory Road, south of Clayton"

This Zodiac suspect lived in Clayton back then, and also lived on MORGAN TERRITORY RD. Again, I am still trying to verify dates, but it os real slow going.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:20 pm

morf13 wrote:
bayarea60s wrote:
Along with being a classmate of Cheri Jo's, this guy lived in Vallejo, Clayton, Redding & was a long time resident of Antioch. I saw a message from this POI to an old friend, he wrote the message in May of 2009, and in that message stated he was living in Clayton at the time.

He was a jock in HS; Wrestling, Football & Track and Field. I don't know if he participated in any other sports. We just don't know where he was in the critical years (67-73). Lot's of guys disappeared in those years in Ca. No military record, no work record, 3 ex wives, at least 2 children, 1 stepson.

He's definitely someone that should be treated as a person of interest, maybe he was in the past, and became overlooked. I'm going to try and make contact with Cheri Jo's friends and see if they know anything about this POI.

1966 graduate, athlete, you would think he would have been prime for the draft.

Bay

Thanks BAY, a couple corrections...He has only one divorce on file, although I have reason to think he may have two. Also, at least according to the records I have, he did indeed use the Clayton & Vallejo address up until 1974. He then moved out of the bay area back down to southern CA, then moved back to the Clayton area. I will be real interested to see if he was living in Clayton in 1969, based on Z placing the compass on the Phillips 66 map, with a arrow landing directly on Clayton. I am going to get all of his available records as far as land ownership and marriage/divorce records. Also, I am having trouble finding confirmed siblings, but I think I may have found one, a Brother. This guy married a woman in Del Norte County, CA, all the way up north in April, 1974. He was associated with the cities of KLAMATH, and CRESCENT CITY. He then moved to El Dorado County and got divorced there in July of 1975. Finally, with his tail between his legs, he wound up moving back down to RIVERSIDE, and was there in 1994 where I think his parents may have been living. Finally, I have a guy by the same name, and same age, getting arrested in El Dorado County in 1999 for drug posession. He was living in Diamond Springs at the time

Turns out that the guy busted for drugs was NOT a relative of this suspect, merely somebody with the same name. The actual relative of this suspect, has ties to the area up around EUREKA (Eureka card possibly from Z), then moved back down to Riverside.
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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:17 am

In this description of Zodiac, by Mageau, he states that -

"Zodiac was short, about 5ft 8", heavyset, but not blubbery fat, just beefy maybe 200 lbs" States there is nothing he can remember other than a "large face", and appeared to be 26-30 years old...Z was NOT wearing glasses.

All of this lines up with this Z suspect from Riverside.

*was on the shorter side

*Was very stocky, and barrel chested/beefy

*Had a very pronounced jaw, that appears to be big

*Although he was 21 at the time of the Z murders, he appeared to easily be older, just look at his graduation pic

*I have pics of this guy with & without glasses

Mageau, in my opinion has been all over the place as far as his story goes, but I would put more stock in what he reported in 1969 as oppoed to now. Not sure how accurate he was with a light in his eyes, but if he was, he said alot that lines up with this suspect.



And compare his pronounced jawline with that of the mystery guy at Berryessa:




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PostSubject: Re: Classmate of Cheri Jo Bates that wound up living in Vallejo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:06 am

Hartnell thought the Zodiac was "possibly 20-30 years old based on voice concept" , which also fits this suspect:



Officer Slaight, who talked with Z after the Berryessa attack, described the Zodiac's voica as "young sounding, possibly early 20's". This again, fits this suspect.

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