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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:01 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Great find morf!

I like "youthful mistake".

Turned to god in his dying days...




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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:26 am

I thought it was odd that there was no mention of any surviving or departed Family for Bujok. I wonder if there is another obituary out there?? I also thought it was of interest that he ad his own column in the paper. Perhaps Kevin, you would be up for the challenge of contacting the Billings Gazette and seeing if you can get your hands on any of the articles by Bujok, or maybe a photo of him, or a person at the paper that knew him.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:31 am

That obit states that Bujok "wrote a monthly column" for the Billings Gazette. I'm only aware of a bunch of letters to the editor and assume this is a bit of "embellishment." Is there something to this?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:05 am

morf13 wrote:
One or more of these are relatives of Bujok. Frank definitely is his Dad. ANd I believe Agnes Mae and Rose Marie are his mother & aunt or vice versa. His mother's maiden name was ZULEVIC. Goin nuts trying to see if she had any Vallejo area Family. I know there was an Agnes Zulevic in the bay area in the 1960's, a niece possibly??? Not sure how to find out.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSfn=&GSmn=&GSln=bujok&GSbyrel=all&GSby=&GSdyrel=all&GSdy=&GScntry=0&GSst=0&GSgrid=&df=all&GSob=n

In July, 1968, Don Bujok's Grandfather, Simon Zulevic died. In his obit, one of his Daughters, Wilma Cramer (the aunt of Don Bujok, and sister of Don's Mom) was living in Downey, CA. The ancestry clues may lead to Vallejo or may be a dead end.


This is Don Bujok's father Frank Bujok, and the names of the fathers brothers and parents.
Also different spellings of Bujok aka; Bujols and Bujak.
So many some of thise other relatives can be found to have lived in the california/ the bay area :

1920 United States Federal Census
about Frank Bujok
Name: Frank Bujok
[Frank Bujols]
[Frank Bujak]
Home in 1920: School District 55, Musselshell, Montana
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904
Birthplace: Austria
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Frank Bujok
Father's Birth Place: Austria
Mother's Name: Mary Bujok
Mother's Birth Place: Austria
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Sex: Male
Year of immigration: 1910
[1911]
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Frank Bujok 51 (DB's granfather)
Mary Bujok 49 (DB's granmother)
Joe Bujok 20 (DB's uncle)
Frank Bujok 16 (DB's father)
Henry Bujok 10 (DB's uncle)



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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:13 am

Theforeigner wrote:
morf13 wrote:
One or more of these are relatives of Bujok. Frank definitely is his Dad. ANd I believe Agnes Mae and Rose Marie are his mother & aunt or vice versa. His mother's maiden name was ZULEVIC. Goin nuts trying to see if she had any Vallejo area Family. I know there was an Agnes Zulevic in the bay area in the 1960's, a niece possibly??? Not sure how to find out.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSfn=&GSmn=&GSln=bujok&GSbyrel=all&GSby=&GSdyrel=all&GSdy=&GScntry=0&GSst=0&GSgrid=&df=all&GSob=n

In July, 1968, Don Bujok's Grandfather, Simon Zulevic died. In his obit, one of his Daughters, Wilma Cramer (the aunt of Don Bujok, and sister of Don's Mom) was living in Downey, CA. The ancestry clues may lead to Vallejo or may be a dead end.


This is Don Bujok's father Frank Bujok, and the names of the fathers brothers and parents.
Also different spellings of Bujok aka; Bujols and Bujak.
So many some of thise other relatives can be found to have lived in the california/ the bay area :

1920 United States Federal Census
about Frank Bujok
Name: Frank Bujok
[Frank Bujols]
[Frank Bujak]
Home in 1920: School District 55, Musselshell, Montana
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904
Birthplace: Austria
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Frank Bujok
Father's Birth Place: Austria
Mother's Name: Mary Bujok
Mother's Birth Place: Austria
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Sex: Male
Year of immigration: 1910
[1911]
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Frank Bujok 51 (DB's granfather)
Mary Bujok 49 (DB's granmother)
Joe Bujok 20 (DB's uncle)
Frank Bujok 16 (DB's father)
Henry Bujok 10 (DB's uncle)




WOW, so the BUJAK inc. located in Vallejo may actually be a relative of Don Bujok.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:50 pm

Bujok continues to be of interest.

On an old post from zk.com, Seagull wrote the following:

"Implatt is a word from the Little List letter. The line reads:
All children who are up in dates and implore you with implatt.
The way it is written in the Little List letter it looks like im and platt are separate words.
I found a word definition for platt that might be relevant. It is a mining term, definition 2 in the link. The mining reference would be reminicent of the Dragon card of April 28, 1970. platt - definition of platt by the Online Dictionary from Datasegment.com-"
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/platt

So was this word a clue to a mining background? And the same with the Dragon card that shows the guy on the Dragon's back carrying mining equipment? Bujok was from a mining town, and his Family were mine workers. Seagull has an interesting take on the clue word IM PLATT. Is that another way of saying, I am a miner?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:17 pm

thebigZ wrote:
That obit states that Bujok "wrote a monthly column" for the Billings Gazette. I'm only aware of a bunch of letters to the editor and assume this is a bit of "embellishment." Is there something to this?


Very good post and you are 'right on' with the embellishment taking place as I spoke with a one of those people and he 'Dan Kees ' couldn't remember who the hell (Bujok) was... He was the local musician who supposedly befriended him. I think the folks I spoke to were right on he was a loner and probably disowned by his family I'll bet. I found a David Robertson in the area but it wasn't the right one and he had passed. I have been searching for Bob and Frances Halverson but have not have come in contact with the right one. Please remember the 'Paradise Letter' that was decorated with the 'conductors punch' as Bujok worked as a laborer for a Railroad before prison and I imagine he would of lifted one...

So here you have a round faced stocky male who lived in a mining town, worked for a railroad, a loner was a laborer; which would explain Fouke's 'he looked like one of the Welsh Miners he remembered as his own family was part welsh. Strong stocky but not blubbery ... Walked with a 'gimpy leg'. My contact said this: at first you would think him dimwitted but as you got to know him you soon learned he was well read and very opinionated; sounds very much like Bryan Harntnell's thoughts....mmm. He would have been exposed to Theater and maybe even the Mikado at the very prison he was in. As I said before and you all know Deer Lodge prison had its own theater. Then you have the 'Slaves In The Afterlife' thing Ed Edwards wrote Bujok spoke of. We could think of Ed as a liar but I checked into the other cons he wrote of and what he said about them was 'right on' including 'Turkey Pete."


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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:40 pm

Writing samples of Bujok would really be interesting, but there appear to be two hurdles. First, he never to my knowledge, owned any land or property, which is where you find most documents with writing on them. The next hurdle is the fact that the state of MT, or at least his county he lived in, wil not release those type of records to the public even if you can find them, or at least thats my understanding.
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PostSubject: Thanks Morph!    Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:16 pm

morf13 wrote:
Writing samples of Bujok would really be interesting, but there appear to be two hurdles. First, he never to my knowledge, owned any land or property, which is where you find most documents with writing on them. The next hurdle is the fact that the state of MT, or at least his county he lived in, wil not release those type of records to the public even if you can find them, or at least thats my understanding.


I spoke


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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:36 pm

I am in touch with a Family member of Bujok, and he is going to try and help shed more light on Bujok as a potential Zodiac suspect, and rule him IN or OUT.
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PostSubject: what do you think of Zodiacs symbol on the Holloween card being a Ranch branding?   Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:00 am

Morf,


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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:27 am

Certainly possible, maybe ask some of the old ranchers in that area.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:39 pm

A little more on Bujok...a relative of his told me that growing up, he didnt have the best home life. His Father was a gambler and was always out of the house gambling. His mother escaped into her own world of magazines and soaps. Donald was left to himself pretty much. The house they grew up in was dirty & delapodated, and wasnt in a real nice section of town. (we previously know he lived in a mining village house). School wasnt great for Don either, and he only made it thru 9th grade. When I asked this relative of Don's who went to school with him if Don had any interest in movies,plays, etc, the relative didnt know because after school, Don would go home and vanish. He never knew what Don was up to. He also said that in all of the years he knew Don, he never once saw him with a gun. He also felt that Don was "not all that bright". The last time this relative saw Don was in the 1950's. After Don went to prison, he never really had much contact with him. This relative did put me in touch with 2 closer relatives of Don who may be able to shed more light on Don Bujok. One of these relatives was a newspaper reporter in the Roundup area.
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PostSubject: Great News! I spoke with the Director of the Montana Prison Museum today   Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:37 pm

gone


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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:47 pm

Kevin B wrote:
First I want to thank Morf for all of his help! I spoke with the director of the 'Deer Lodge Prison Museum' today. Her name is Julia Brewer. She told me she was in touch with a gentleman that was a guard at the old Deer lodge prison. His name is Bob McNally. Bob told her "both the guards and the inmates feared Bujok as he was crazy as a loon." Bob went on to be a detective as well. To me this confirms Ed Edward's statement he made in his book about Don Bujok. I will be talking to Bob in a few minutes.... I am also gathering information about the performances at the prison as they were sometimes open to the public. The W.A. Clark Theater was the only one I know of in a prison... I'll bet you the Mikado was performed there!

K.B

Sounds good, hope you find something of interest.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Kevin B wrote:
First I want to thank Morf for all of his help! I spoke with the director of the 'Deer Lodge Prison Museum' today. Her name is Julia Brewer. She told me she was in touch with a gentleman that was a guard at the old Deer lodge prison. His name is Bob McNally. Bob told her "both the guards and the inmates feared Bujok as he was crazy as a loon." Bob went on to be a detective as well. To me this confirms Ed Edward's statement he made in his book about Don Bujok. I will be talking to Bob in a few minutes.... I am also gathering information about the performances at the prison as they were sometimes open to the public. The W.A. Clark Theater was the only one I know of in a prison... I'll bet you the Mikado was performed there!

K.B


Great work, Kevin! What is weird about Edwards mentioning Bujok the way he did in his book but prior to that, march 1, 1971 (article posted by Tim Spencer on Z.com), he assigns the same attributes to someone with the name of Richard.

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=122615#122615

It also took Edwards 2 years to come forward with that info? This is very fishy to me. I think Edwrads had an agenda and knew very well why he did not mention Bujok or Richard earlier. I think he is talking about HIMSELF here.

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:15 pm

[quote="Nin"][quote="Kevin B"]First


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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:23 pm

Good work Kevin! Sounds very interesting. Very Happy Letters, handwriting, more photos, etc are crucial, as is a connection placing him in the Vallejo/SF area. This guy may not turn out to be Zodiac, but on paper, he looks pretty good, and I just cant shake the fact he was parolled from Deer Lodge prison 3 days before the Zodiac murders started, and 9 months before the Zodiac told Hartnell he escaped from Deer Lodge.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:24 pm

Very possible, Kevin. I am still wondering who that Richard guy could have been. Also, I still am perplexed that it took Edwards some time to come forward with his info.

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:02 pm

Nin wrote:
Very possible, Kevin. I am still wondering who that Richard guy could have been. Also, I still am perplexed that it took Edwards some time to come forward with his info.

-Nin

I think he just didn't want to name names (Snitch) or used that name in the paper only... Again Ed could be our man as well... I think Ed looks like the Sonoma composite which is really SF's composite without the glasses and a more realistic nose. I think Dryman looks like what Katherine Johns described and Bujok looks like the sketch made from the sunbathers description.... Anyway I hope I can get some pictures. I sent the composites to Bujok's nephew. Thanks Nin! If anything comes of this it will because of all everyone’s hard work. I have people working on verifying what plays and movies were shown at the prison theater..... I don't think there is a Richard... Do you?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:10 pm

Kevin B wrote:
Nin wrote:
Very possible, Kevin. I am still wondering who that Richard guy could have been. Also, I still am perplexed that it took Edwards some time to come forward with his info.

-Nin

I think he just didn't want to name names (Snitch) or used that name in the paper only... Again Ed could be our man as well... I think Ed looks like the Sonoma composite which is really SF's composite without the glasses and a more realistic nose. I think Dryman looks like what Katherine Johns described and Bujok looks like the sketch made from the sunbathers description.... Anyway I hope I can get some pictures. I sent the composites to Bujok's nephew. Thanks Nin! If anything comes of this it will because of all everyone’s hard work. I have people working on verifying what plays and movies were shown at the prison theater..... I don't think there is a Richard... Do you?

No, I don't think there was a Richard. At least we never heard about him. We have two very good suspects here. I am reading Edwards' book right now. If anything else interesting comes up I will let you know. Keep up the good work!

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:13 pm

Nin wrote:
Kevin B wrote:
Nin wrote:
Very possible, Kevin. I am still wondering who that Richard guy could have been. Also, I still am perplexed that it took Edwards some time to come forward with his info.

-Nin

I think he just didn't want to name names (Snitch) or used that name in the paper only... Again Ed could be our man as well... I think Ed looks like the Sonoma composite which is really SF's composite without the glasses and a more realistic nose. I think Dryman looks like what Katherine Johns described and Bujok looks like the sketch made from the sunbathers description.... Anyway I hope I can get some pictures. I sent the composites to Bujok's nephew. Thanks Nin! If anything comes of this it will because of all everyone’s hard work. I have people working on verifying what plays and movies were shown at the prison theater..... I don't think there is a Richard... Do you?

No, I don't think there was a Richard. At least we never heard about him. We have two very good suspects here. I am reading Edwards' book right now. If anything else interesting comes up I will let you know. Keep up the good work!

-Nin


Good work! I think we have 3 interesting suspects. Bujok that fits so much of the profile, Valentine/Dryman that lived in Napa & Vallejo, and Edwards who is the glue that holds it altogether and brought up Bujok to begin with. If Bujok lived in Vallejo, he would be a hard suspect to beat.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:32 am

morf13 wrote:
Good work Kevin! Sounds very interesting. Very Happy Letters, handwriting, more photos, etc are crucial, as is a connection placing him in the Vallejo/SF area. This guy may not turn out to be Zodiac, but on paper, he looks pretty good, and I just cant shake the fact he was parolled from Deer Lodge prison 3 days before the Zodiac murders started, and 9 months before the Zodiac told Hartnell he escaped from Deer Lodge.

Actually, the 3 days thing worries me. Getting out of prison, obtaining a car, a gun, and making it to California within 72 hours would be pretty tricky. And this is only IF Bujok walked out of prison on Dec. 17. I suppose it is possible the records may not be accurate, though.

There are some eerie coincidences here. Even if it turns out none of these 3 guys had anything to do with the Zodiac crimes this could still lead to someone or something else. Zodiac had to have gotten his Deer Lodge story from somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:40 am

Zero wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Good work Kevin! Sounds very interesting. Very Happy Letters, handwriting, more photos, etc are crucial, as is a connection placing him in the Vallejo/SF area. This guy may not turn out to be Zodiac, but on paper, he looks pretty good, and I just cant shake the fact he was parolled from Deer Lodge prison 3 days before the Zodiac murders started, and 9 months before the Zodiac told Hartnell he escaped from Deer Lodge.

Actually, the 3 days thing worries me. Getting out of prison, obtaining a car, a gun, and making it to California within 72 hours would be pretty tricky. And this is only IF Bujok walked out of prison on Dec. 17. I suppose it is possible the records may not be accurate, though.

There are some eerie coincidences here. Even if it turns out none of these 3 guys had anything to do with the Zodiac crimes this could still lead to someone or something else. Zodiac had to have gotten his Deer Lodge story from somewhere.

I agree, the DEER LODGE thing is a clue in some odd way. Maybe Zodiac, if he wasnt one of these 3 men, knew one of these guys. I did speak to a MT prison official and asked her about the 12/17/68 Parole date. I wanted to know if that is the date they decided to let him out, or is that the date he walked out. She told me, it was the day he "left" prison. No idea if she is right, but if she is, that timing is crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:02 am

The interesting thing so far is that piece by piece, every item we have found out about Bujok further fits Z like a glove rather than discounting him.

When I first heard Edward's story, I thought "yeah, yeah, the lying toerag is just trying to sell his book with titillating stories" but then lo and behold, the guy he describes did actually exist at Deer Lodge and it turns out that he was a cop killer. Then we find out his age fits, then his height and his weight and his general appearance. On top of this he turns out to be a compulsive letter writer to the press and his mum's maiden name is close to "Zodiac"! The big doubt for me was that he due to his crime, he was most probably still locked up at the time of the Z murders but no - it seems he was let out 3 days before the murders began.

The case for him just keeps getting stronger and we don't have to take any huge leaps of imagination or bend the rules to make him fit Z. Of course, the latest hurdle is that he would have had to have moved quick to get down to California by the evening of Dec 20th but it's entirely possible especially if he was on a Bi Polar high coming out of prison.

Morf's right - we just have to find photos of him nearer to the time frame along with handwriting samples. Then, if these are consistent we need to somehow find some sort of link to the Bay Area although this could be very difficult. I'm still not discounting the likes of Edwards or Dryman having some sort of responsiblity for the Z murders/letters though.
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