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 More on Don Bujok

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Theforeigner
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:45 am

Kevin B wrote:
tracers wrote:
Yes, a couple of people had to go and ruin it for everyone. I think the situation could have been handled much better than it was.

Tracers, thank you for your help you are smarter thant he average bear.....


All the info is now in the hands my attorney and the SF Police Department. We will see what happens..... I hope it it's good news.....

Good Luck Kevin, well done Smile

Any chance that you could post a handwriting sample?
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Zamantha
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:41 am

Kevin B wrote:
tracers wrote:
Yes, a couple of people had to go and ruin it for everyone. I think the situation could have been handled much better than it was.

Tracers, thank you for your help you are smarter thant he average bear.....


All the info is now in the hands my attorney and the SF Police Department. We will see what happens..... I hope it it's good news.....

Hey Kevin, Wishing you the best as always! And NO pressure from any of us. Remember you do not have to share anything more......... until or if
you are ready, OK!? So be true to yourself!!! And yeah, Tracers is pretty darn smart... I second you on that one!

Your Pal, Zam Like a Star @ heaven
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Azazel
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:17 am

tahoe27 wrote:
I have some of the photos Kevin provided saved, but will wait to post them just in case he would like to share them again himself...of course I would give him credit.

Can you post the other pictures? Please? Cool
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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:48 am

I also have the photo TF posted with the comparison to the composite....(if you don't still have it TF I can post it)....these photos were provided by Kevin B.

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Azazel
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:08 pm

Thanks Tahoe.
If you have the time and energy to post the other with an comparison that would be nice.
Anyone saved the picture with the 2 girls and Bujok?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:57 pm

Theforeigner wrote:
Kevin B wrote:
tracers wrote:
Yes, a couple of people had to go and ruin it for everyone. I think the situation could have been handled much better than it was.

Tracers, thank you for your help you are smarter thant he average bear.....


All the info is now in the hands my attorney and the SF Police Department. We will see what happens..... I hope it it's good news.....

Good Luck Kevin, well done Smile

Any chance that you could post a handwriting sample?

Yes.... Working on it... It will come. I hope it matches. I have a very little now....
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PostSubject: Bujok suffered from this.....    Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:01 am

Azazel wrote:
By the way, it seems there have been a couple of floodings in Musselshell/Roundup Montana.
Anyone that look at the date of the Zodiac flooded letter and check if there were any floodings at that time?
I know I searched earlier but didn´t find anything. But unfortunatly that doesn´t mean there wasn´t any. Only that I am a crappy searcher.. haha

You’re not a crappy researcher; actually it has flooded many times and Bujok's house was at times under a good amount of water... Don Bujok suffered from a disease called Myotonic Dystrophy. It is a muscle wasting disease. I believe it came on as he got older. However it is genetic. In pictures when he was older he was very thin in the face, gaunt, and scary looking. He still wore very thick black glass frames. Symptoms of the disease do include problems with gait, eye problems as well as speech problems and a tendency to look like Ted Kaczynski. Just kidding! Things are being done to rule him in or out.... I think it's him!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myotonic_dystrophy


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Quagmire
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:21 pm

Good points Kevin. I remember when I read Bujok's obituary that they mentioned his disease which had steadily disabled him over the years. I read at the time that it was hereditary and could cause ssues such as club foot, etc.

Made me think that if he was locked up for his prime years and got released only to find that he would have years of suffering a degenerative illness ahead of him, then he would be pretty pee'd off with LE and no doubt would be jealous of couples in their teens making out and enjoying their best years, whilst he had been incarcerated for his.

I still can't ignore the geographical issues though. Why on earth the Bay area, and was Zodiac instead just someone living near SF who maybe just served time with Bujok and got some inspiration from him? confused
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:39 pm

Zero wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Good work Kevin! Sounds very interesting. Very Happy Letters, handwriting, more photos, etc are crucial, as is a connection placing him in the Vallejo/SF area. This guy may not turn out to be Zodiac, but on paper, he looks pretty good, and I just cant shake the fact he was parolled from Deer Lodge prison 3 days before the Zodiac murders started, and 9 months before the Zodiac told Hartnell he escaped from Deer Lodge.

Actually, the 3 days thing worries me. Getting out of prison, obtaining a car, a gun, and making it to California within 72 hours would be pretty tricky. And this is only IF Bujok walked out of prison on Dec. 17. I suppose it is possible the records may not be accurate, though.

There are some eerie coincidences here. Even if it turns out none of these 3 guys had anything to do with the Zodiac crimes this could still lead to someone or something else. Zodiac had to have gotten his Deer Lodge story from somewhere.

Maybe he heard it on the news. Do you have any way of finding out when it was reported?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:03 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
Haven't read up on these guys that much so I'm not bias either way. Getting a car quick back in that day wouldn't have been a hard thing to do if Bujok had a little money on him when he got out. Also maybe he had a ex-con friend that got out of prison before him that hooked him up.

Maybe this ex-con lived in Vallejo or the surrounding area and him and Bujok had this plan set up months in advance for when Bujok got released. Just throwing this idea out there and again don't really have a opinion yet on these guys but will read up this weekend.


Your theory makes sense. Or, maybe he hitchhiked or hopped a train or had enough money to take a Greyhound. If he had relatives in the Vallejo area, (as someone suggested), it would make sense he'd go there. The 17th was also close to Christmas and I imagine it would have been pretty cold and snowy in Montana, which may explain why no parole agent came looking for him immediately.
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:09 pm

morf13 wrote:
Good work, keep digging Kevin

Yes and if he was such a problem, how did he manage to evade capture all that time or hold down a job during the week (which is what it seems is thought that Z did, explaining why his murders took place on Fridays and Saturdays).
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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:17 pm

lovethecar wrote:
Zero wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Good work Kevin! Sounds very interesting. Very Happy Letters, handwriting, more photos, etc are crucial, as is a connection placing him in the Vallejo/SF area. This guy may not turn out to be Zodiac, but on paper, he looks pretty good, and I just cant shake the fact he was parolled from Deer Lodge prison 3 days before the Zodiac murders started, and 9 months before the Zodiac told Hartnell he escaped from Deer Lodge.

Actually, the 3 days thing worries me. Getting out of prison, obtaining a car, a gun, and making it to California within 72 hours would be pretty tricky. And this is only IF Bujok walked out of prison on Dec. 17. I suppose it is possible the records may not be accurate, though.

There are some eerie coincidences here. Even if it turns out none of these 3 guys had anything to do with the Zodiac crimes this could still lead to someone or something else. Zodiac had to have gotten his Deer Lodge story from somewhere.

Maybe he heard it on the news. Do you have any way of finding out when it was reported?

In 1959. Smile
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Nin
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:01 pm



DON Quixote .. DON Bujok Very Happy
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Azazel
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:11 am

Do anyone have any information about the girl mentioned in the 2/17/74 Billings Gazette?


morf13 wrote:
Bujok's Letters to the editor from 10/25/73 until 6/2/74 (there are still plenty more from 6/74 up to 1976. I will post more as time permits:

From the 10/25/73 Billings Gazette:


From the 2/17/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 3/22/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 3/28/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 4/16/74 Billings Gazette:



From the 5/26/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 6/2/74 Billings Gazette:








Seagull wrote:
Here is another letter to the editor written by Bujok in Feb. 1974. I have to say that the guy was very articulate. Considering that he went into the service at 19 years old and then was in prison not long after being discharged, the time frame did not leave much room for college.

Does anyone have an idea of what kind of employment Bujok had after being paroled? His father was a coal miner according to his obituary.


And perhaps any information about the "An angry reply" "11 year-old Richardson texas child" published 4/16/74 in Billings Gazette"
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:46 am

thebigZ wrote:
I'd have to agree, that Bujok is a wonderful suspect. In fact, my favorite of all time. That three day window, however, really sticks in my craw. Wouldn't SOMEONE have to have been accountable for Bujok's whereabouts subsequent to his release (parents, parole officer)? A man is paroled and then immediately crosses state lines? Yeah, it's possible I guess. I've known some bi-polar folks over the years (including my ex-wife), so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could have hopped in his car and headed for the West Coast, just on a whim. But why Vallejo? A suggestion from Valentine or Edwards? It would be nice if someone were able to pick Valentine's brain (what's left of it). All in all, Kevin's doing a great job obtaining some decent info and has some great leads. Excellent work.

-tbz

That's because he is Zodiac! In my opinion of course; It's him.... I could be wrong though and have been in the past....
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StitchMallone
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:06 pm

The thing about those writings is he seems very sensible and intelligent like a well educated upstanding citizen and makes some great points. All most the opposite what you would think Zodiac's mind would be like. All there is some Zodiac type thinking in a few like the The Exorcist article.
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Zamantha
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:31 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
The thing about those writings is he seems very sensible and intelligent like a well educated upstanding citizen and makes some great points. All most the opposite what you would think Zodiac's mind would be like. All there is some Zodiac type thinking in a few like the The Exorcist article.

I was pondering that thought also. Could he have Two Personalities? Interesting articles Azazel, glad you tracked them down for us.
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StitchMallone
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:07 pm

Zamantha wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
The thing about those writings is he seems very sensible and intelligent like a well educated upstanding citizen and makes some great points. All most the opposite what you would think Zodiac's mind would be like. All there is some Zodiac type thinking in a few like the The Exorcist article.

I was pondering that thought also. Could he have Two Personalities? Interesting articles Azazel, glad you tracked them down for us.
Yea that's the only thing I can think of. Yes the articles are very interesting and thanks to Azazel.
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Azazel
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:20 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
Zamantha wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
The thing about those writings is he seems very sensible and intelligent like a well educated upstanding citizen and makes some great points. All most the opposite what you would think Zodiac's mind would be like. All there is some Zodiac type thinking in a few like the The Exorcist article.

I was pondering that thought also. Could he have Two Personalities? Interesting articles Azazel, glad you tracked them down for us.
Yea that's the only thing I can think of. Yes the articles are very interesting and thanks to Azazel.


Thanks, but I am only reposting what others have found earlier. These and more from Bujok are available at Ancestry.com.And in various threads on Edwars/Dryman/Bujok.
Since I think Bujok is the best POI I have seen I were only hoping that someone could look into those two cases mentioned.
By the way, I agree. The person that found out that Bujok had written letters to the editor and the person that posted the page that could help identify Bujok deserves a big thanks. Perhaps Edwards should get some credit also? Cool
I like the choice of words from BO-yOk.....Shall ,Fools, Nasty... What else?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:30 pm

Azazel wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
Zamantha wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
The thing about those writings is he seems very sensible and intelligent like a well educated upstanding citizen and makes some great points. All most the opposite what you would think Zodiac's mind would be like. All there is some Zodiac type thinking in a few like the The Exorcist article.

I was pondering that thought also. Could he have Two Personalities? Interesting articles Azazel, glad you tracked them down for us.
Yea that's the only thing I can think of. Yes the articles are very interesting and thanks to Azazel.


Thanks, but I am only reposting what others have found earlier. These and more from Bujok are available at Ancestry.com.And in various threads on Edwars/Dryman/Bujok.
Since I think Bujok is the best POI I have seen I were only hoping that someone could look into those two cases mentioned.
By the way, I agree. The person that found out that Bujok had written letters to the editor and the person that posted the page that could help identify Bujok deserves a big thanks. Perhaps Edwards should get some credit also? Cool
I like the choice of words from BO-yOk.....Shall ,Fools, Nasty... What else?


The Zodiac Badlands letter and the Bujok 'Dick Tracy' are of the same tone.... Their "I believe" the same guy! .... Call me what ya want! My Grandfather had the billings articles for awhile. He was a New York City detective 1st grade. My Mom had the Edwards book as well since 1971 I believe. . He thought Buyok looked good a long time ago but when I dug up a few things more... I freaked!!!

By the way, Bujok worked for a chemical company as a salesman. Back in the day, they did not watch parolees like they do today. It's the guy! I have handwriting, fingerprints the whole deal. If it matches then great if not we keep looking! I think the handwriting looks good as he has 3 stroke K's and uses that funny g with the line straight down.... If this is solved it was because of many peoples hard work! I think it is! I also think he was very ill and Zodiac was one of his personalities.
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Cremcraw
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:08 pm

Kevin, could you share some examples of Bujok's handwriting? I would love to see it.
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Jem
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:59 pm

Cremcraw wrote:
Kevin, could you share some examples of Bujok's handwriting? I would love to see it.

Ooooh, yes! Can you please post something, anything Kevin? bounce
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:26 am

Jem wrote:
Cremcraw wrote:
Kevin, could you share some examples of Bujok's handwriting? I would love to see it.

Ooooh, yes! Can you please post something, anything Kevin? bounce

I will soon. The handwriting I have is a very small amount. It looks good though but we will wait and see what the experts think..... This stuff takes longer than i thought it would
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:32 am

Quagmire wrote:
Good points Kevin. I remember when I read Bujok's obituary that they mentioned his disease which had steadily disabled him over the years. I read at the time that it was hereditary and could cause ssues such as club foot, etc.

Made me think that if he was locked up for his prime years and got released only to find that he would have years of suffering a degenerative illness ahead of him, then he would be pretty pee'd off with LE and no doubt would be jealous of couples in their teens making out and enjoying their best years, whilst he had been incarcerated for his.

I still can't ignore the geographical issues though. Why on earth the Bay area, and was Zodiac instead just someone living near SF who maybe just served time with Bujok and got some inspiration from him? confused



Quagmire, you are a smart one! First I agree with the disease thing and there is still plenty of work to be done on this guy however many things that could have nailed him are long gone or are they?

Ted Bundy.... He traveled thousands of miles to kill. Bujok was a loner; he worked as a traveling salesman, a ranch hand, did odd jobs, worked on cars, and stayed in mission districts when he was in Cali. In Montana he wouldn't be missed if he were gone a few days! Hop a train, take a bus or drive his 57 ‘Chevy Pickup or his 61' Buick Skylark. I believe you have to look at what is consistent in a case. If you don't, you have nothing! That's what Detective Robert Slavin told me. Bujok lost considerable weight and gained weight as well. That may have been his disguise he spoke of? If you look at my past posts I tried to explain to people what a widow’s peak was but no one paid attention. Donald Fouke's description was that of a receded hairline not a widow’s peak although he called it that. A widow’s peak is a tuft of hair in the center of the hairline that forms a small point. Troy Houghton had both! However his widow’s peak thinned as he grew older and his temples receded as well. A receded hairline is a recession at the temples that forms kind of a peninsula of hair like Zodiac has in the revised wanted poster. I liked Houghton for awhile.

Bujok tended to put weight on in the face and lose it there as well. His face could be oval when thin and more round when he was heavy. I used to think Katherine Johns might have been picked up by someone other than Zodiac, but the truth is, it could have been Bujok as he did gain and lose, gain and lose his weight. He also could be very neat at times when he was doing his sales bit... The man was 2 people! He played 'Dudley Do right' in Montana and let out his payback on the police and collected slaves in California as Zodiac.

Why would it be hard to think that a man who was a known killer and told people "all I kill we be slaves in the afterlife" not travel across a few state lines in order to not be detected and go back to prison again? That's the reason he was never caught! No one was looking in Montana except my Grandfather and people here on the board! They were too busy trying to make a name for themselves in California! The hooded man told us who he was by what he told Hartnell! No one checked until I got lucky enough to have my contact search for updated mug-shots of him. It was him! The light hair and military cut combed up in a little pompadour up front; just like Mageau described. The 1st description of Zodiac was Mike's (in my opinion) only credible one. He went off the deep end after that! Zodiac went from being 5'8" stocky with a short military cut to over 6'00" tall with jet black hair and glasses. Then he fingered bald Arthur Leigh Allen! As a known killer of a Deputy Sheriff, Zodiac told us why he killed! He was nuts! Look at the mug his 66' mug he has again gained weight and looks dead on to the wanted poster.

He screwed up that night in San Francisco. I believe the prints are his! I believe he didn't plan to shoot Stine but Stine may have said something that angered him. The reason he wrote a few days later "I only look like the wanted poster when I do my thing" was bullshit! He knew he was seen after he saw that wanted poster! It looks just like him! Also the "if you wonder why I was wiping down the prints, it was because I was leaving fake clues!” Bullshit! He knew he had been seen and was scared and that is why he wrote “I shall no longer announce when I do my murders they shall look like accidents and robberies and such”..... Bullshit... We got ya! He should have been caught a long time ago! That’s what my Grandfather said! I think this case is far more simple than we have made it and I think Don Bujok is Zodiac. that's right Kevin Brooks thinks Donald Lee Bujok is Zodiac! I could be wrong as it could be TK! I hope the prints are a match and I hope the partial DNA will help and perhaps there is more buried somewhere?
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PostSubject: Re: More on Don Bujok   Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:25 am

Kevin, I spoke to Don's cousin, the guy that worked for the newspaper in MT. In an email to me, he wrote:

"As you know, Don Bujok is deceased. I knew him after he was released from prison. He was quiet, unassuming, articulate, well read, interested in current events, extremely poor, and not at all physically healthy. Most of the time he rode a pedal bike, but sometimes drove an old beat up Chevy pickup ('50's vintage). I visited with him from time to time when he brought "Letters to the Editor" into the local newspaper and occasionally here or there on the streets. I have no photos or writings of his in his hand. While it certainly isn't impossible that Don was the Zodiac killer, I can't hardly believe that he was in any position to periodically scoot off to California, commit murders, and blast back to Roundup and return to his life in abject poverty."

While I still think that Bujok matches up with alot of Z clues, and the letters to the editor he wrote are interesting as well as the whole 'slaves in the afterlife' references,and the mention of 'deer lodge' by Zodiac, I still think there could also be the possibility that Zodiac may have known Bujok or his phrases, and possibly been in prison with him. Don's cousin has the same concerns as most of us do, how likely was it that Bujok, broke and fresh out of prison, would travel 1000 miles back n forth to Vallejo? Its not highly likely. Remember, whomever Zodiac was, he wrote lots of letters to newspapers in the bay areas, and these letters wer concentrated on weekdays, and postmarked in the SF area....which to me inidicates that Z, was a SF bay area resident.

What I am glad to see here, is that you have Bujok's prints, and writing samples. The prints alone should be very easy to rule Bujok in or out. I hope you are right, and this case is solved, but even though everything about Bujok is interesting, he has to be ruled in or out properly by the authorities before he can be confirmed as the Zodiac or not.

Even if he turns out NOT to be Zodiac, I do have some ideas. As I said, its possible that Zodiac went to prison with Bujok. So if you can get a list of all prisoners at Deer Lodge (which I understand could be a huge number), you could do a check to see if any of them later lived in the Vallejo/Napa area. The first ones I would start with would be Edwards & Valentine. Edwards because he wrote about Bujok and his phrase 'slaves in the afterlife' (If Edwards was Z, he could have used Bujok's phrases in his letters). If Valentine was Z, he was out not too long before the Berryessa murders, and he could have used the 'Deer Lodge' reference (and maybe the 12/20/68 murders were not actually done by Z, which I personally dont believe).
Either way, the 'Deer Lodge' reference by Z could be very important.


Kevin, Keep digging until you can rule Bujok out or until they tell you he was the Zodiac


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