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 The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:17 pm

Finally got my hands on the Bojok prison record and mugshot. They are included here. One thing that is annoying, is that I still see no indication anyplace of how/when/why he got out of prison, instead of serving a full life sentence. I think he is an interesting POI as far as the Z case goes since he served time at Deer Lodge, and was a prolific writer to newspaper editors, even his writings had some Z-like qualities. On the other hand, I see zero connection between him and the SF bay area, nor do I see how a convicted felon would be able to move back and forth between two states. This mugshot of him is from 1954-57 era, so I dont know what he looked like during the z murders. But his description generally sounds liek Z, 5 ft 9 and 200 lbs, build...stocky. By the way, list his shoe size as 9.

I also have prison sheets for his cohorts Valentine/Dryman and Edwards. Will tru to add them later today.





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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:08 pm

Dryman/Valentine, absoultely, positively, was not parolled until January, 1969. I confirmed this in his record. Therefore, he could certainly NOT be the killer on LHR on 12/20/68. But the fact he was born in Napa,and lived in Vallejo, and served time at Deer Lodge, is pretty powerful stuff. At Lake Berryessa in Napa, Z likely said that he escaped from "Deer Lodge". That seems like it would be awfully coincidental for Z to strike in Napa, and mention Deer Lodge, and meanwhile, a guy that was just paroled from Deer Lodge 8 months earlier was from Napa/Vallejo.

So what could this mean? Could any of the combo of these three been part of a Z team? Was Edwards defininitely out and in the bay area in December, 1968 for the LHR murders? The shooter would have to be either Edwards, or Bujok(which I think is unlikely, and he may still have been in prison). That of course is if they were some sort of Z team. I have been thinking of another possibility. If Dryman/Valentine was parolled in January, 1969, and came back home to the bay area at some point after that, perhaps he met up with old friends or family members in the Vallejo/Napa area, and perhaps one of them was actually the Zodiac, and therefore knew of Deer Lodge since Dryman/Valentine had just come from there. He certainly may have hung out with some dangerous men based on his background, and perhaps one of them was Zodiac.
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PostSubject: I like this guy Bujok!   Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:26 pm

morf13 wrote:
Dryman/Valentine, absoultely, positively, was not parolled until January, 1969. I confirmed this in his record. Therefore, he could certainly NOT be the killer on LHR on 12/20/68. But the fact he was born in Napa,and lived in Vallejo, and served time at Deer Lodge, is pretty powerful stuff. At Lake Berryessa in Napa, Z likely said that he escaped from "Deer Lodge". That seems like it would be awfully coincidental for Z to strike in Napa, and mention Deer Lodge, and meanwhile, a guy that was just paroled from Deer Lodge 8 months earlier was from Napa/Vallejo.

So what could this mean? Could any of the combo of these three been part of a Z team? Was Edwards defininitely out and in the bay area in December, 1968 for the LHR murders? The shooter would have to be either Edwards, or Bujok(which I think is unlikely, and he may still have been in prison). That of course is if they were some sort of Z team. I have been thinking of another possibility. If Dryman/Valentine was parolled in January, 1969, and came back home to the bay area at some point after that, perhaps he met up with old friends or family members in the Vallejo/Napa area, and perhaps one of them was actually the Zodiac, and therefore knew of Deer Lodge since Dryman/Valentine had just come from there. He certainly may have hung out with some dangerous men based on his background, and perhaps one of them was Zodiac.



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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:49 pm

Kevin B wrote:

Morf.... This Bujok fits the description to the T! Round face, stocky, almost 5'10" fairly nice looking, thin lips, small ears. I believe you all have Z in one of these men.... Or maybe all 3..... Thank you so much for getting the mug shot of him. Is he still alive? By the way, as you know shoe size can change as you get older or do to the cut of the shoe. I used to wear a 9 1/2 when I was young but now wear a 10 1/2. Thank you for your excellent work!
Kevin B.

I think he died back in the 90's. He was never married, and as far as I could tell, has no confirmed link to ths San Fran area
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Great you got ahold of that Morf!
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:08 pm

Yes, Bujok died in 1993
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:01 pm


Great work Morf, thanks a lot Very Happy

IMHO I don't think he fit the Zodiac sketch (Stine murder Oct 11, 1969), his nose is way to wide, and, from a female point of view, he is absolutely NOT good looking Kevin (I assume you think of the description of the possible Zodiac suspect by the 3 girls at Lake Berryessa)
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:10 pm

I don't think he is bad looking at all! To each his (or her) own as they say!

But, I too don't think he fits Fouke's description so much. The hair mostly. But 10 years might create a widow's peak thingy. Smile Then again, the composite doesn't reflect that so who the heck knows.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:12 pm

Good work Morf. I see nothing there that rules him out as Z. I feel the witness descriptions are too vague and wide varied for us to be able to say his nose doesn't match, etc. That Stine composite looks nothing like a heavy-set guy and the picture has become so ingrained in many people's memory that I'm sure if we put some horn rimmed glasses on Bujok, we'd all suddenly say, "whoah - that's gotta be Z!"

For a serial killer to say that he knew him, felt he was terribly dangerous, spoke of collecting slaves for the afterlife and thinks he was the Zodiac is intriguing. For us then to then find this guy who does indeed actually have a record for shooting someone dead in cold blood, who served in Deer Lodge but was actually free by at least the early 70s and has a fetish for continually writing to newspapers makes him very hard to ignore. Then to find that he was about 5'10, 200 pounds with blondeish hair is actually quite chilling.

Our big problem is now trying to determine when he left Deer Lodge and if there is any way he could have turned up in the Bay area around 1969. Oh, and some handwriting would be really helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:54 pm

Quagmire wrote:
Good work Morf. I see nothing there that rules him out as Z. I feel the witness descriptions are too vague and wide varied for us to be able to say his nose doesn't match, etc. That Stine composite looks nothing like a heavy-set guy and the picture has become so ingrained in many people's memory that I'm sure if we put some horn rimmed glasses on Bujok, we'd all suddenly say, "whoah - that's gotta be Z!"

For a serial killer to say that he knew him, felt he was terribly dangerous, spoke of collecting slaves for the afterlife and thinks he was the Zodiac is intriguing. For us then to then find this guy who does indeed actually have a record for shooting someone dead in cold blood, who served in Deer Lodge but was actually free by at least the early 70s and has a fetish for continually writing to newspapers makes him very hard to ignore. Then to find that he was about 5'10, 200 pounds with blondeish hair is actually quite chilling.

Our big problem is now trying to determine when he left Deer Lodge and if there is any way he could have turned up in the Bay area around 1969. Oh, and some handwriting would be really helpful.

Any volunteers? If this guy ever bought or sold property, he would have signed docments. These documents can be obtained by contacting the county recorder's office where he bought the property. Fantasy Football season is upon me, and my time gets eaten up a little more, so I dont know if or when I will be able to get around to requesting documents he signed. But even if they are obtained, there is no guarantee that his printed writing will appear anyplace on them, but instead, it is more likely that his cursive signatures will appear.

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PostSubject: Dryman/Valentine   Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:30 pm

Here is the prison record for Dryman/Valentine. (sorry it is blackened out, I enhanced and sharpened it to make it easier to read). Also, there is a complete timeline, and background info for him ober the years, in and out of prison.








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PostSubject: Edward Wayne Edwards   Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:51 pm

Edward Wayne Edwards background and Deer Lodge info:








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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:38 pm

Bujok's Letters to the editor from 10/25/73 until 6/2/74 (there are still plenty more from 6/74 up to 1976. I will post more as time permits:

From the 10/25/73 Billings Gazette:


From the 2/17/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 3/22/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 3/28/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 4/16/74 Billings Gazette:



From the 5/26/74 Billings Gazette:


From the 6/2/74 Billings Gazette:







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PostSubject: Thanks Quagmire!   Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:04 am

[quote="Quagmire"]Good work Morf. I see nothing there that rules him out as Z. I feel the witness descriptions are too vague and wide varied for us to be able to say his nose doesn't match, etc. That Stine composite looks nothing like a heavy-set guy and the picture has become so ingrained in many people's memory that I'm sure if we put some horn rimmed glasses on Bujok, we'd all suddenly say, "whoah - that's gotta be Z!"

For a serial killer to say that he knew him, felt he was terribly dangerous, spoke of collecting slaves for the afterlife and thinks he was the Zodiac is intriguing. For us then to then find this guy who does indeed actually have a record for shooting someone dead in cold blood, who served in Deer Lodge but was actually free by at least the early 70s and has a fetish for continually writing to newspapers makes him very hard to ignore. Then to find that he was about 5'10, 200 pounds with blondeish hair is actually quite chilling.







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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:32 am

This stuff is definitely interesting, but at least one, possibly two of these 3 were in prison for the 12/20/68 Z murders. And unless Bujok can be placed in the SF bay area, then it will be hard to move forward, just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:24 am

Theforeigner wrote:

Great work Morf, thanks a lot Very Happy

IMHO I don't think he fit the Zodiac sketch (Stine murder Oct 11, 1969), his nose is way to wide, and, from a female point of view, he is absolutely NOT good looking Kevin (I assume you think of the description of the possible Zodiac suspect by the 3 girls at Lake Berryessa)

The Zodiac composite had a nose that was abnormally way too thin in my opinion. No one except Micheal Jackson has a nose like that! My wife said 'he was fairly nice looking" and she is one beautiful girl herself... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess! I wonder if he smoked and if he can be placed in California.... I do think the girls saw Zodiac that day at Lake Berryessa... Theforeigner: I have a lot of respect for you and your great investigative skills... I like what I am seeing here from Morf and you and the the others bringing this information forth....
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:10 am

I think these three are interesting, but I also think too much stock is being put into EWE's quote from his book... i.e., the guy who wanted to collect slaves for the afterlife. Edwards demonstrated throughout his life that he could not be taken at his word. I have no doubt that he was at least familiar with the Zodiac case, but I feel he mentioned it in passing in his book just to raise eyebrows. To put it more bluntly, he was probably full of crap. All he was ever interested in was being famous... and I think that quote may have been made simply to bolster his ego.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:07 am

thebigZ wrote:
I think these three are interesting, but I also think too much stock is being put into EWE's quote from his book... i.e., the guy who wanted to collect slaves for the afterlife. Edwards demonstrated throughout his life that he could not be taken at his word. I have no doubt that he was at least familiar with the Zodiac case, but I feel he mentioned it in passing in his book just to raise eyebrows. To put it more bluntly, he was probably full of crap. All he was ever interested in was being famous... and I think that quote may have been made simply to bolster his ego.

You may be right. We dont even know if these guys knew each other. But they were indeed all at Deer Lodge at the same time. One of them was from Napa/Vallejo, and one of them was a prolific writer to the editor of his local paper, and did in fact mention SLAVES in one of his letters, although not in the same context as Z did.

I still think that Z could have been a friend or relative of Dryman/Valentine, and when he was released from prison in Jan 69, came home to the Napa area. Any friends or relatives would know he was in Deer Lodge, and if one of them was Z, could have used the Deer Lodge angle at Berryessa. Would be interesting to know who Dryman/Valentine associated with when he went to Deer Lodge, and after he got out. Maybe one was Z.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:53 am

Kevin B wrote:
Theforeigner wrote:

Great work Morf, thanks a lot Very Happy

IMHO I don't think he fit the Zodiac sketch (Stine murder Oct 11, 1969), his nose is way to wide, and, from a female point of view, he is absolutely NOT good looking Kevin (I assume you think of the description of the possible Zodiac suspect by the 3 girls at Lake Berryessa)

The Zodiac composite had a nose that was abnormally way too thin in my opinion. No one except Micheal Jackson has a nose like that!

Not to suggest that composites are all that important, but TH's nose fits perfectly in my opinion.


The Deer Lodge guys seem to short and too thin to have been Z, IMO. Z was a stocky, middle-aged guy, according to Foukes's description. And, after all, Foukes saw Z and it's his job to notice things like that. Mageau also claimed that ALA was Z; ALA was a fat, middle-aged guy (and TH looks very much like ALA with hair, btw).

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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:20 am

I think 5ft9 and 200 lbs (Bujok), is right on target with Z's description. And as far as age of Z, the age has been from 25-45. Of course, as I said before, Bujok's Deer Lodge experiences, his physical description and letters to the editor are of course interesting, but unless he was in Vallejo, then.....
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:27 am

Foukes said that Z was possibly greying on the sides and back. 25-year olds don't exhibit gray hair. As for POIs being placed in Vallejo (I get the hint): for all we know, the killer lived in MT or AZ, drove in to CA to do the killings, and left the state afterwards. I don't think it's the most likely scenario, but what rules it out? What if Z lived in the woods or under a rock somewhere in Vallejo with "No Address"? How could we place him in Vallejo?
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:11 am

More witness accounts than others put Z at being around 5'9, stocky/husky, 30ish and with dark blonde hair. All the Deers Lodge POIs fit this description apart from Dryman maybe being slim in the 50's rather than stocky but who knows what he was like a dozen years after that description.

Many people put more weight on Foukes' description because he was a cop, but we mustn't forget that he was in a moving car in the dark when he got a fleeting glance at Z and not being black, he didn't really pay massive attention to his appearance. Possibly graying at the sides could have described shaven (short back and sides was popular at the time) or could have been street lights/headlights creating a lighter impression on parts of Z's head.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:21 am

Quagmire wrote:
More witness accounts than others put Z at being around 5'9, stocky/husky, 30ish and with dark blonde hair. All the Deers Lodge POIs fit this description apart from Dryman maybe being slim in the 50's rather than stocky but who knows what he was like a dozen years after that description.

Many people put more weight on Foukes' description because he was a cop, but we mustn't forget that he was in a moving car in the dark when he got a fleeting glance at Z and not being black, he didn't really pay massive attention to his appearance. Possibly graying at the sides could have described shaven (short back and sides was popular at the time) or could have been street lights/headlights creating a lighter impression on parts of Z's head.

Also cant forget, the descriptions of these 3 Deer Lodge guys are based on their physical features when they went into the prison. Who knows what they looked like in 1969.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:35 am

Very true Morf. Edwards was definitely closer to 200pounds by the early 70s and Dryman had a very pronounced widows peak by the late 60s (but not sure of his weight).

What Bujok's weight and hair were like in the late 60's is anyone's guess at the present time...
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PostSubject: Not true!   Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:06 pm

rand wrote:
Foukes said that Z was possibly greying on the sides and back. 25-year olds don't exhibit gray hair. As for POIs being placed in Vallejo (I get the hint): for all we know, the killer lived in MT or AZ, drove in to CA to do the killings, and left the state afterwards. I don't think it's the most likely scenario, but what rules it out? What if Z lived in the woods or under a rock somewhere in Vallejo
with "No Address"? How could we place him in Vallejo?


Not true many people gray in their twenties. Micheal Landon the Bonanza actor started graying in his early 20's, by the time he was 25 he dyed his hair in order to land roles. My own brother statted graying in his 20's I on the other hand still have only a touch of gray at 49.


People can get gray hair at any age. Some people go gray at a young age — as early as when they are in high school or college — whereas others may be in their 30s or 40s before they see that first gray hair. How early we get gray hair is determined by our genes. This means that most of us will start having gray hairs around the same age that our parents or grandparents first did.

Gray hair is more noticeable in people with darker hair because it stands out, but people with naturally lighter hair are just as likely to go gray. From the time a person notices a few gray hairs, it may take more than 10 years for all of that person's hair to turn gray.

Some people think that a big shock or trauma can turn a person's hair white or gray overnight, but scientists don't really believe that this happens. Just in case, try not to freak out your parents too much. You don't want to be blamed for any of their gray hairs!

Reviewed by: Mary L. Gavin, MD
Date reviewed: August 2010
For Teens
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At What Age Does Hair Turn Gray?
According to the Popular Science website, many people start getting gray hair in their early to mid-30s, with men typically going gray a little earlier than women. However, many people do not fall within the typical range. Some people experience the onset of gray hair as early as their late teens and 20s but others not until their 50s or even later.



Read more at Suite101: When Does Hair Turn Gray? — At What Age Does Hair Go Grey? | Suite101.com http://www.suite101.com/content/when-does-hair-turn-gray--at-what-age-does-hair-go-grey-a241498#ixzz1TRexaq00
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