Zodiackillersite

DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ZODIAC KILLER - ALWAYS FREE TO JOIN, NO FEES EVER!
 
HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
AuthorMessage
rand
Chief


Posts : 1071
Join date : 2010-04-03

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:57 pm

The whole "Zodiac" persona was a fraud, IMO. Just a coverup because he gave too much away with the crosshair signature and needed to divert attention away from the truth of it. Anyone who used the name Zodiac prior to the murders would never call himself Zodiac after the murders. It's an absurd logic that a person would use a moniker as a killer that he was commonly called prior to the murders -- IMO, it would be grounds for ruling a POI out.

Consider this: Does anyone think that Dennis Rader actually went by the name BTK prior to 1974 or after, for that matter? It would be as if Babe Ruth were a serial killer in 1923, and he signed his "anonymous" letters to LE and the newspapers: The Bambino.
Back to top Go down
StitchMallone
Chief


Posts : 649
Join date : 2011-05-04

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:53 pm

rand wrote:
The whole "Zodiac" persona was a fraud, IMO. Just a coverup because he gave too much away with the crosshair signature and needed to divert attention away from the truth of it. Anyone who used the name Zodiac prior to the murders would never call himself Zodiac after the murders. It's an absurd logic that a person would use a moniker as a killer that he was commonly called prior to the murders -- IMO, it would be grounds for ruling a POI
Your theory then points to someone knowing Zode then setting him up in my opinion. Off topic but who knows ?
Back to top Go down
rand
Chief


Posts : 1071
Join date : 2010-04-03

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:42 pm

I don't think so, Stitch. I've got another reason but it's on another thread. The crosshair meant something other than Zodiac, which, after all, only refers to a crosshair on a watch and a British model Ford. There are very few images of a crosshair symbol attached to the word "Zodiac."
Back to top Go down
Luke68
Lieuntenant


Posts : 276
Join date : 2011-04-19

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:56 pm

Luke68 wrote:
Very though provoking NIN. Allow me to build briefly on your line of thought.

We see from his letter to the editor regarding the Exorcist that DB opposed belief in the supernatural. That is the opposite of what EE says in his book. Secondly, we know for a fact that EE killed couples in lover's lanes. A very specific MO although the EE killings were also sexual. I need to read more about EE to get an idea of his MO, ritual and psychology. I think this will be useful in discussing the hypotheses you've provided.

Frank Dryman/Valentine is interesting as well. It's contended that he might have killed on a number of occasions after he was released (one of his ex-wives and son-in-law went missing). He was in DL prison for 14 years (released in 1969). 4-TEEN. NIN, you'll be well aware of how often T's, E's and N's appear in the 408 encoded 340. Take a look at Dryman's tattoos on his left fingers. They really remind me of the encoded 340 between LESTO:



Re-posting the above as John Cameron claims to have interviewed Dryman in prison. In this blog comment (link attached) he alludes to the tattoos on his hand being significant. Would be interesting to know exactly what he is referring to.

http://thomasleetruewest.com/2011/04/03/frank-dryman/
Back to top Go down
tahoe27
Chief


Posts : 2920
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Lake Tahoe

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:02 pm

I read the tattoos were Navy.

I will see if I can find it.
Back to top Go down
bentley
Chief


Posts : 1340
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Bayarea

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:18 pm

RIP Uncle Leo


Back to top Go down
Seagull
Chief


Posts : 1150
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : No. California

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:33 pm

This is from the Montana Prison inmate site. No pix of the tattoos, just a description.

https://app.mt.gov/conweb/


DOC ID# 18717
NAME: FRANK R. DRYMAN
CURRENT STATUS: INMATE
STATUS LAST UPDATED: 02-APR-10
GENDER: MALE
PRISON:
MONTANA STATE PRISON
700 CONLEY LAKE DRIVE
DEER LODGE, MT 59722
For More Information: (406) 846-1320




PHYSICAL AND DEMOGRAPHIC CHARACTERISTICS AKAs
DOB: 1931 HEIGHT: 5 FT 11 IN
BIRTHPLACE: CALIFORNIA WEIGHT: 160 LBS
ETHNICITY: WHITE L/R HANDED: R
MARITAL STATUS: DIVORCE HAIR COLOR: GRAY
BUILD: MEDIUM
CITIZENSHIP: United States SKIN TONE: LIGHT
MT RESIDENT: N EYE COLOR: BLUE
VALERY ADAMS, FRANK R. VALENTINE,

SCARS, MARKS, TATTOOS AND OTHER PHYSICAL CONDITIONS
NCIC Code TYPE DESCRIPTION

SC ABDOM SCARS ABDOMEN
TAT ABDOM TATTOO ABDOMEN HEART, EYES, LINES, HORSE SHOE, LINES, UNIDENTIFIABLE WRITING
TAT BACK TATTOO BACK GUN
TAT CHEST TATTOO CHEST SWORD, FEMALE, "HI BABY", "GIN", "?"
TAT GROIN TATTOO GROIN AREA "KISS ME"
TAT L ANK TATTOO ANKLE, LEFT BUG
TAT L FGR TATTOO FINGER(S), LEFT HAND STAR, SHAPES
TAT L HND TATTOO HAND, LEFT SKULL
TAT L THG TATTOO THIGH, LEFT NUDE FEMALE
TAT LF AR TATTOO FOREARM, LEFT NUDE FEMALES, CROSS, DICE, "USN", SKULL SMOKING, NOSE, STAR, BLACK BLOB, UNIDENTIFIABLE WRITING
TAT R ANK TATTOO ANKLE, RIGHT SOLID FILLER, "YOU ALL"
TAT R FGR TATTOO FINGER(S), RIGHT HAND STARS
TAT R HND TATTOO HAND, RIGHT ANCHOR, MARKINGS
TAT R THG TATTOO THIGH, RIGHT CHERRY, SMILE, "HERE'S MINE WHERE'S YOURS", MERMAID
TAT RF AR TATTOO FOREARM, RIGHT "A-", CHAIN, HEART, "OA", CHILD, UNIDENTIFIABLE WRITING, FEMALE
TAT UL AR TATTOO ARM, LEFT UPPER SWASTIKA, "RIP", SCRIBLE
TAT UR AR TATTOO ARM, RIGHT UPPER RUSSIAN SYMBOL, "MUD"

Back to top Go down
http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com
Nin
Chief


Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:48 pm

Who is Valery Adams? Great find, seagull.

-Nin
Back to top Go down
Seagull
Chief


Posts : 1150
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : No. California

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:29 pm

I'm thinking Valery Adams was the name he used after skipping out on his parole those many years ago. And the name he was living under in Arizona when he was arrested.
Back to top Go down
http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com
Nin
Chief


Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:42 pm

Seagull wrote:
I'm thinking Valery Adams was the name he used after skipping out on his parole those many years ago. And the name he was living under in Arizona when he was arrested.

That's weird. I always thought Valery is a female name. Thanks, Seagull.

-Nin
Back to top Go down
Nin
Chief


Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:51 pm

I see now. It is indeed also a male name:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeria

'The male version is Valerius, Valerio or Valery. Valeria is also connected to the same root with the name, "Valentine," and "Valerian," or "Valeriana officinalis," the herb. It also means "love".'

"love" is interesting. It reminds me of the "LAV" on the HC envelope. One way it sound's like Love, the other way it is short for VALery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_(given_name)

-Nin

Back to top Go down
morf13
Admin


Posts : 6416
Join date : 2010-03-04
Age : 45
Location : NJ

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:09 pm

All this talk about Bujok being released from prison in time for the Z murders, gas me looking at Edwards & Valentine even more closely. Wethere Bujok walked out of prison on 12/17/68 is still being debated. But we know with certainty that Valentine/Dryman was out in January 1969, and in looking over my prison notes, they read "January 1969, Dryman paroled from MT state prison, and moves to CA where his parents are living". I take it they were still in the Vallejo/Napa area. Man, I just cant shake that these 3 guys, Dryman/Valentine most importantly in my mind, spent time in Deer Lodge, and then Zodiac is in the NAPA area attacking at Berryessa and telling how he was from Deer Lodge prison. Inmy mind, this guy could just as likely be the Zodiac as Bujok. The roadblock in my mind is that he was in prison in Dec 1968 when the Z murders started, but was certainly free when the Ferrin/Mageu attack happened. If I woke up tomorrow and found the case was solved and that any combination of the 3 of these guys was involved, I would not be surprised.

Also, looking at the timeline of Dryman/ Valentine, my notes state: "August, 1971, Dryman vanishes, leaving behind a wife & children, had been working as a self-employed sign painter". March of 71, the Zodiac stops writing and does not write again until 1974. Sort of lines up with his timeline.

Also, I have the notes of shoe sizes for each of these guys:

Dryman/Valentine- 9&1/2
Edwards- 9&1/2
Bujok- I forget, sure somebody has it around here

No 10&1/2 shoe sizes, like the wingwalkers, although I am sure any of these guys could have wore a slightly bigger wingwalker boot.

Also, I am curious, this mystery man that Darlene was afraid of, that had possibly killed somebody, could it have been Dryman?
Back to top Go down
Seagull
Chief


Posts : 1150
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : No. California

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:38 pm

Correction!

Dryman used the name of Vic Huston when he was arrested in New Mexico, not Arizona. I do not know where the name of Valery Adams came from. It is an anagram of Averly though, FWIW.

Morf, I think Dryman was paroled to his brother in Southern California. Tahoe seemed to think it was Chino and he was married to Beryl Cahill in SoCal. Read this page @ ZK.

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=5028
Back to top Go down
http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com
morf13
Admin


Posts : 6416
Join date : 2010-03-04
Age : 45
Location : NJ

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:42 pm

Seagull wrote:
Correction!

Dryman used the name of Vic Huston when he was arrested in New Mexico, not Arizona. I do not know where the name of Valery Adams came from. It is an anagram of Averly though, FWIW.

Morf, I think Dryman was paroled to his brother in Southern California. Tahoe seemed to think it was Chino and he was married to Beryl Cahill in SoCal. Read this page @ ZK.

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=5028

Do we know his Parents' name? The sheet I read said that he was released to CA "where his parents were living". But I also seem to recall somebody saying he got married or moved down to the San Bernardino area.
Back to top Go down
Seagull
Chief


Posts : 1150
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : No. California

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:56 pm

California Birth Index, 1905-1995 about Frank Robert Dryman
Name: Frank Robert Dryman
Birth Date: 4 Jun 1931
Gender: Male
Mother's Maiden Name: South
Birth County: Napa

Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956 about Frank Robert Valentine
Name: Frank Robert Valentine
[Frank Robert Dryman]
Arrival Date: 5 Apr 1951
Port of Arrival: Sweet Grass, Montana, United States
Age: 19
Birth Date: 4 Jun 1931
Birth Place: Napa, Cal
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: Scottish (Scotish)
Record has photo?: No
Record Type: Cards

California Marriage Index, 1960-1985 about Frank R Valentine
Name: Frank R Valentine
Age: 38
Est. Birth: abt 1931
Spouse Name: Byrle V Cahill
Spouse Age: 36
Date: 1 Sep 1969
Location: San Bernardino

Possible siblings-

Gladys Viola Valentine 31 Oct 1933 Female South Napa

Ginger Viola Valentine 31 Oct 1934 Female South Napa

Jack Losley Valentine 27 Aug 1935 Male South San Francisco

Back to top Go down
http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com
tahoe27
Chief


Posts : 2920
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Lake Tahoe

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:14 pm

I was told he didn't get along with his Dad. I do believe his parents did move to So. Nevada. It was his Aunt he was close with and had lived in So Cal. with PRIOR to his crime. He didn't really have ties to Vallejo other than a quick stint at Mare Island as he was in the Navy. (Although Vallejo and Napa are very close).

It WAS his brother he was released to. Seagull helped with that one, and it was confirmed more than once.

Chino is only 25 miles away from Rialto. Dryman moved to Rialto after living with his brother.


Edit: changed some info to correct location.


Last edited by tahoe27 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
tahoe27
Chief


Posts : 2920
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Lake Tahoe

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:25 pm

His mother's name was "Gladys Foster" at the time he went missing.

Back to top Go down
Seagull
Chief


Posts : 1150
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : No. California

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:32 pm

LOL Tahoe! The border crossing document says his mothers name is Geneva Valentine and she lived in El Monte CA. This document was made when LE captured Dryman in Canada and brought him back to Montana for trial.
Back to top Go down
http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com
morf13
Admin


Posts : 6416
Join date : 2010-03-04
Age : 45
Location : NJ

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:39 pm

I actually found the exact parole date-1/7/69
Back to top Go down
tahoe27
Chief


Posts : 2920
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Lake Tahoe

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:41 pm

via my contact:

"Dryman was born in Napa , but immediately after his birth he returned with his family to a small homestead outside Nevada near Boulder Pass at what is now the site of the Hoover Dam.

There is no more mention in my notes of Napa beyond that.

The Aunt I spoke of lived in Los Angeles, CA, and he called her Nana. (I think that’s where my confusion over “ Napa ” may have stemmed from).

He lived with her in Los Angeles for a period of a year and a half or so until leaving for Reno in Feb. 1951, just a couple months before the murder in Montana . When he was arrested he said he was from Vallejo .

When he was released from prison in 1969 we went to live with his brother Jim in Chino , where he lived for about a year or so before getting married and then moving to Rialto .

He drove a red Ford Maverick."
Back to top Go down
Nin
Chief


Posts : 582
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:45 am

morf13 wrote:
..

Also, looking at the timeline of Dryman/ Valentine, my notes state: "August, 1971, Dryman vanishes, leaving behind a wife & children, had been working as a self-employed sign painter". March of 71, the Zodiac stops writing and does not write again until 1974. Sort of lines up with his timeline.

..

Interesting date, isn't it? March of 71! Look at the date of this article, where Edwards is tipping-off police:




Back to top Go down
bentley
Chief


Posts : 1340
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Bayarea

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:12 am

Thanks for posting that article Nin.

Edwards fails to mention that Richard (he is referring to Bujok, right?) actually went by the name ZODIAC when he tipped off police. I guess he didn't feel that was of importance... Smile


Back to top Go down
morf13
Admin


Posts : 6416
Join date : 2010-03-04
Age : 45
Location : NJ

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:59 am

Nin wrote:
morf13 wrote:
..

Also, looking at the timeline of Dryman/ Valentine, my notes state: "August, 1971, Dryman vanishes, leaving behind a wife & children, had been working as a self-employed sign painter". March of 71, the Zodiac stops writing and does not write again until 1974. Sort of lines up with his timeline.

..

Interesting date, isn't it? March of 71! Look at the date of this article, where Edwards is tipping-off police:





WOW, I never saw that before, thanks for posting it NIN
Back to top Go down
bentley
Chief


Posts : 1340
Join date : 2010-03-06
Location : Bayarea

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:49 am

The Akronite doesn't know when Richard left jail. "In Montana, killing a police officer is not punished as severly as it is here. Probably Richard only served about 38 years".

Does that say 38, or 3-8, or is supposed to say 3-8? If he meant 38, he couldn't be talking about Bujok.

In any case, if SFPD was investigating his claim, shouldn't have been too hard to find Deer Lodge inmates who had killed Montana LE officers.
Back to top Go down
Theforeigner
Chief


Posts : 880
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 61
Location : Denmark

PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:31 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
via my contact:

"Dryman was born in Napa , but immediately after his birth he returned with his family to a small homestead outside Nevada near Boulder Pass at what is now the site of the Hoover Dam.

There is no more mention in my notes of Napa beyond that.

The Aunt I spoke of lived in Los Angeles, CA, and he called her Nana. (I think that’s where my confusion over “ Napa ” may have stemmed from).

He lived with her in Los Angeles for a period of a year and a half or so until leaving for Reno in Feb. 1951, just a couple months before the murder in Montana . When he was arrested he said he was from Vallejo .

When he was released from prison in 1969 we went to live with his brother Jim in Chino , where he lived for about a year or so before getting married and then moving to Rialto .

He drove a red Ford Maverick."

Here is his birth record (sorry if it has already been posted):


California Birth Index, 1905-1995
about Frank Robert Dryman
Name: Frank Robert Dryman
Birth Date: 4 Jun 1931
Gender: Male
Mother's Maiden Name: South
Birth County: Napa

Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Today at 9:52 pm

Back to top Go down
 
The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 10 of 12Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Gang of Berlin [GoB] - With new Forum !
» Question Regaurding Ski Lodge
» The Betrayer gang (IC)
» Re Brutal gang bang on hvh luastoned ! :)
» American Deer Pack

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Zodiackillersite :: Zodiac Suspects & POI's General Discussion :: All other Zodiac Suspects & POI's-
Jump to: