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 The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok

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Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:04 am

Stine was shot in front of (or close to) Edwards' relatives' house (Edith Meyer, Edwards’ aunt, married to John Bellet)according to John Cameron’s report.

According to Edwards’ book, upon his release from Lewisburg penitentiary (1967) his aunt, living in Ohio back then, asks him to “get out of the cab about two blocks from her house” .. She was afraid the neighbors would be watching.. He agreed to his aunts’ terms. The cabbie let him out a few blocks from her house and he walked the rest of the way in a downpour. The new clothes he was wearing, and the new clothes he was carrying in shopping bags, were all drenched. Edwards said, it bothered him then and it still did to this day.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:41 pm

While serving time in Leavenworth Edwards received his Associate in Arts degree from Highland Junior College shortly before being transferred to Lewisburg. He also was a certified First Aid instructor running first aid courses in Leavenworth and then Lewisburg.

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:47 pm

Edwards was born 6 - 14 - 33 Wink



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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:03 am

Nin wrote:
Edwards was born 6 - 14 - 33 Wink




NIN, are you saying that the fingers in the pic are made to represent his birthday of 6/14????? I know my POI that was on Lake Herman Rd the night of the 12/20/68 murders also shares that same birthday. Shocked

Actually, the fingers could represent both a 6(the shape of the fingers), a 3(the amount of fingers straight up), and a 0 (the fingers in a circle), so it could also be 6/14/30, the DOB of my POI
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:47 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
..

I may not be understanding how people think this group could have operated as a team, but I have never thought any "Team Zodiac" theories make much sense, looking at Lake Berryessa and others the writer of the letters was the killer it seems.

...

I was thinking about that for some time now. Let's take LB for example, what if the suspicious individual from LB actually was an accomplice? Could be, couldn't it? If this individual was indeed an accomplice to the killer (one is finishing up the attack, the other one is watching out and writing on the cardoor) we'd have composites of both. The composite from the Stine killer (Zodiac) to me never looked anything like the LB composite.

Let's look at the Stine killing. When the kids looked out of the window, what did they see? They saw the cabdriver slammed over the lap of another male sitting in the passenger seat cutting out Stine's shirt, as we know. They did not see the cab arriving at the spot or anything prior to the slammed over driver and the male sitting in the passenger seat. If there was another passenger in the back of the seat, could he have exited the cab before the kids looked through the window? Or could he have exited the cab a block earlier, walked outside around to the driver and payed him? He hurries to the next block, again to look out while the crime is being committed?

Or other scenario: Zodiac, and another individual ( the accomplice) are hailing down Stine at Geary and Mason.The accomplice carries some bulky bag with him and enters the back of the cab. Zodiac asks to sit in the front as the back is crowded doe to the bag. They ask to be dropped off at Maple and Washington. While Stine is driving Zodiac in the front asks the accomplice in the back if it would be okay to exit the cab one block further, as he was a eparoled convict and he does not want to have the neighbors of his family see him ( just saying). The accomplice agrees and asks Stine if that was okay. He is fine with it. They get to Maple and Washington, The accomplice gets out of the cab and pays Stine through the drivers window in full. He also pays for the 1"block further drop off" for his mate. Since it is only a delayed drop off Stine does not call it in.

Once the mate payed the full fare he still is outside the cab talks to Stine and signals Zodiac inside the cab that the time is right. Zodiac shoots the cabdriver, hands over the gun to his accomplice who quickly leaves, pushes Stine over and drives the cab over to Washington and Cherry. Once he arrives, he moves over to the passenger seat, pulls Stine over to cut out Stine's shirt. He also retrieves Stine's wallet as it contains the fare his accomplice paid. The money may contain fingerprints. Since Zodiac has no gun, he feels relatively comfortable to "explain" the situation if police was to arrive. He would say they had a second passenger in the back who all of a sudden pulled a gun at Maple and Washington, shot the driver and escaped. Zodiac would say he was trying to cut off some shirt to stop the bleeding or something like it and he would also stress that he is not armed. Eventually Zodiac has so much time left as to exit the cab and wipe down his mates' fingersprints on the outside of the driver's side. The second individual theory would also explain the left gloves in the back seat.

However, the scenario me well be tuned around, mainly that the individual the kids saw is NOT Zodiac, but that Zodiac actually killed the cabdriver at Maple and left the cab, while his mate proceeded to Cherry and Washington.

That would also explain why "Zodiac" took the wallet of Stine. If there was another passenger paying his fare at either Maple or Cherry ( before the shot) "Zodiac" or the accomplice would want to remove that money from Stine's wallet or keep the wallet. In any way we would end up having a composite of Zodiac from the Stine murder and a composite of his accomplice from LB or vica versa.

Probable? I don't know. Possible? Yes.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:08 pm

morf13 wrote:
Nin wrote:
Edwards was born 6 - 14 - 33 Wink




NIN, are you saying that the fingers in the pic are made to represent his birthday of 6/14????? I know my POI that was on Lake Herman Rd the night of the 12/20/68 murders also shares that same birthday. Shocked

Actually, the fingers could represent both a 6(the shape of the fingers), a 3(the amount of fingers straight up), and a 0 (the fingers in a circle), so it could also be 6/14/30, the DOB of my POI
Yep can see that about your POI DOB and can also see 6-14-3 but not 33.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:10 pm

Nin wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
..

I may not be understanding how people think this group could have operated as a team, but I have never thought any "Team Zodiac" theories make much sense, looking at Lake Berryessa and others the writer of the letters was the killer it seems.

...

I was thinking about that for some time now. Let's take LB for example, what if the suspicious individual from LB actually was an accomplice? Could be, couldn't it? If this individual was indeed an accomplice to the killer (one is finishing up the attack, the other one is watching out and writing on the cardoor) we'd have composites of both. The composite from the Stine killer (Zodiac) to me never looked anything like the LB composite.

Let's look at the Stine killing. When the kids looked out of the window, what did they see? They saw the cabdriver slammed over the lap of another male sitting in the passenger seat cutting out Stine's shirt, as we know. They did not see the cab arriving at the spot or anything prior to the slammed over driver and the male sitting in the passenger seat. If there was another passenger in the back of the seat, could he have exited the cab before the kids looked through the window? Or could he have exited the cab a block earlier, walked outside around to the driver and payed him? He hurries to the next block, again to look out while the crime is being committed?

Or other scenario: Zodiac, and another individual ( the accomplice) are hailing down Stine at Geary and Mason.The accomplice carries some bulky bag with him and enters the back of the cab. Zodiac asks to sit in the front as the back is crowded doe to the bag. They ask to be dropped off at Maple and Washington. While Stine is driving Zodiac in the front asks the accomplice in the back if it would be okay to exit the cab one block further, as he was a eparoled convict and he does not want to have the neighbors of his family see him ( just saying). The accomplice agrees and asks Stine if that was okay. He is fine with it. They get to Maple and Washington, The accomplice gets out of the cab and pays Stine through the drivers window in full. He also pays for the 1"block further drop off" for his mate. Since it is only a delayed drop off Stine does not call it in.

Once the mate payed the full fare he still is outside the cab talks to Stine and signals Zodiac inside the cab that the time is right. Zodiac shoots the cabdriver, hands over the gun to his accomplice who quickly leaves, pushes Stine over and drives the cab over to Washington and Cherry. Once he arrives, he moves over to the passenger seat, pulls Stine over to cut out Stine's shirt. He also retrieves Stine's wallet as it contains the fare his accomplice paid. The money may contain fingerprints. Since Zodiac has no gun, he feels relatively comfortable to "explain" the situation if police was to arrive. He would say they had a second passenger in the back who all of a sudden pulled a gun at Maple and Washington, shot the driver and escaped. Zodiac would say he was trying to cut off some shirt to stop the bleeding or something like it and he would also stress that he is not armed. Eventually Zodiac has so much time left as to exit the cab and wipe down his mates' fingersprints on the outside of the driver's side. The second individual theory would also explain the left gloves in the back seat.

However, the scenario me well be tuned around, mainly that the individual the kids saw is NOT Zodiac, but that Zodiac actually killed the cabdriver at Maple and left the cab, while his mate proceeded to Cherry and Washington.

That would also explain why "Zodiac" took the wallet of Stine. If there was another passenger paying his fare at either Maple or Cherry ( before the shot) "Zodiac" or the accomplice would want to remove that money from Stine's wallet or keep the wallet. In any way we would end up having a composite of Zodiac from the Stine murder and a composite of his accomplice from LB or vica versa.

Probable? I don't know. Possible? Yes.
The first scenario really makes you think.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm

rand wrote:
Dryman's last name was Valentine. Reminds me of the stickers inside the HC: http://www.zodiackiller.com/Stickerz.html
Was this another clue about his identity contained in the HC?

Also, the underlining of LAV in Paul Averly and the prominent LAV in SLAVE on the back of the card could be VAL backwards: VAL for VALENTINE.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:24 pm

rand wrote:
rand wrote:
Dryman's last name was Valentine. Reminds me of the stickers inside the HC: http://www.zodiackiller.com/Stickerz.html
Was this another clue about his identity contained in the HC?

Also, the underlining of LAV in Paul Averly and the prominent LAV in SLAVE on the back of the card could be VAL backwards: VAL for VALENTINE.

Rand, could be for sure. I also think of Vallejo when I see this VAL short for Vallejo. Val e Jo as some of us locals call it.

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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:33 am

In the Halloween card there are three distinct symbols - Z, cross-hair and the pentene/wind speed device. Could each symbol refer to each person (Dryman, bujok, Edwards)?

There are also three words that stand out: 'ED' which is separate from Doomed (the letters which aren't joined up), BOO and 4-TEEN. Could these stand for ED=Edwards; BOO=Bujok and 4-TEEN = Valentine (Valentine's day is on 14 February)?
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:13 pm

It could be...there have been at least a dozen ideas on what the symbols on the Halloween card mean. None are totally convincing IMO.

The BOO for BUJOK probably fits the best...the ED could be TED, EDWARD, also short for EDITOR...

I think lovecar noted the first part of this put I just thought of something else, prompted by a Daniel Gillotti post on the Halloween envelope from Zodiac.

The real name of the reporter is AVERY, correct?

But Zodiac spells out it AVERLY.

He adds an "L". Why?

PAUL AVERLY.

Zodiac then underlines LAV.

Why?

Reverse those letters he underlined, then read it out loud.

VAL ERLY.

Say that aloud.

VAL - ER - LY.

Sounds like VALERIE to me. Shocked

But that is just one of a dozen possibilities...


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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:49 am

AK Wilks wrote:
It could be...there have been at least a dozen ideas on what the symbols on the Halloween card mean. None are totally convincing IMO.

The BOO for BUJOK probably fits the best...the ED could be TED, EDWARD, also short for EDITOR...

I think lovecar noted the first part of this put I just thought of something else, prompted by a Daniel Gillotti post on the Halloween envelope from Zodiac.

The real name of the reporter is AVERY, correct?

But Zodiac spells out it AVERLY.

He adds an "L". Why?

PAUL AVERLY.

Zodiac then underlines LAV.

Why?

It looks like he's emphasizing it and making it look like an "L" to me. It also connects the first name to the last name in a way, as if Z wanted it to be one word or wanted to extend/change Paul. Could there be other letters that would fit in the empty spaces that would make any sense? PauL__Averly, ie. Pauline Averly? It also reminds me of the first part of the symbol on the Halloween card. (I posted earlier this evening on the "solution to Halloween card" thread that the "F" looked like the symbol for "Key" that In Bonus Fides had posted re. the branding of horses. I thought that would make sense as a possible solution for part of that strange symbol as a skeleton key would fit in with the skeleton on that Halloween card.

I wonder if somehow that symbol has three parts like the ciphers and the first one is what it looks like, an "L" and the last one an "F?"

You'd almost think that Z thinks Paul Averly would have been able to make sense out of this; otherwise, why send it to him?

Lav makes me think of "lavatory", "laboratory" and "lavendar." That envelope looks like it has pale shades of lavendar in the mostly white paper and again looks very unusual. It reminds me of clouds but not exactly; I just can't figure out if it is my computer settings or the very unusual/odd look that these papers have with the way the colors are shaded.

Sorry for error made in replying in the wrong place (I think) so deleted the last part of the comment re. "Valerie" when I saw it at the end!



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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:44 am

AK Wilks wrote:
It could be...there have been at least a dozen ideas on what the symbols on the Halloween card mean. None are totally convincing IMO.

The BOO for BUJOK probably fits the best...the ED could be TED, EDWARD, also short for EDITOR...

I think lovecar noted the first part of this put I just thought of something else, prompted by a Daniel Gillotti post on the Halloween envelope from Zodiac.

The real name of the reporter is AVERY, correct?

But Zodiac spells out it AVERLY.

He adds an "L". Why?

PAUL AVERLY.

Zodiac then underlines LAV.

Why?

Reverse those letters he underlined, then read it out loud.

VAL ERLY.

Say that aloud.

VAL - ER - LY.

Sounds like VALERIE to me. Shocked

But that is just one of a dozen possibilities...



Or VAL for VALENTINE? Very Happy

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:58 pm

...or "Lav"...short for "Lavatory"...hence, "Water".... alien Suspect Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:57 am

The following clip reveals serial killer Edward Wayne Edwards from the HBO documentary Paradise Lost, released in June of 1996. As the victims family is grieving over their sons cemetary plot on Christmas Day, 1993. Serial killer Edward Wayne Edwards will appear in the clip for 10 seconds, placing a folded dollar bill into his wallet. The symbolic ritual of having the folded bill in his hand can be found on the back of any one dollar bill. The Egyptian 3 dimensional pyramid with the one dimensional eye over it. It symbolized sending the dead into the after life in Eds mind. (Material world to spiritual world) The "TRIAD OF MEMPHIS" (Google) is what he was representing when he killed the three 8 year old boys in a ritualistic fashion. He is wearing a fake beard, hat and glasses to disguise himself as Santa Clause because he is really Satan and it is Christmas. The cane (staff) he is carrying is most likely the murder weapon. After investigating Edwards for the past year for killing a young couple in Great Falls Montana New Years 1956, I then tied him to the Zodiac killings and then Jon Benet Ramsey . I connected him to West Memphis Three killings last week after placing him in West Memphis and finding him in the documentary. Edwards then interjected himself in the HBO documentary to taunt us all as to who he was-The Zodiac. He got three wrongfully convicted again, just like he did in Portland Oregon, 1968-70. He killed Jon Benet Ramsey exactly 3 years to the day after appearing in his own murder documentary. He almost got John and Patsy Ramsey convicted, and did in the public eye. The ZODIAC had always bragged that he wanted a movie about him. He got his wish. His motives for murder evolved in Deerldoge Prison, 1956-59 where he devised his own sick twisted Egyptian mythology, and was killing slaves for his afterlife. He was married and had 5 kids and 11 grandchildren. He destroyed millions of people, including his family in his 60 years of getting away with murder. He fooled us all and nobody is to blame but him. It's time for authorities to own up to being fooled by the worlds best and free those that Edwards chained. How many have been executed for crimes this man has done? Zodiac the executioner worked with the criminal justice system to execute innocent people. The death penalty should be stayed.

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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:00 am

John! A late welcome! Awesome discovery! I can't believe you found him in the video. As you said, he fooled everyone.









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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:24 am

Do you have any photographs that you can share from Edwards from the '90's to compare to this video screen shot?

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:25 am

Yes, it would be nice to have more proof it's not just some large guy who needs a cane.

Has this note been discussed somewhere? Did EE write it?


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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:28 am

bentley wrote:
Yes, it would be nice to have more proof it's not just some large guy who needs a cane.

Has this note been discussed somewhere? Did EE write it?


..

The November/10 letter is part of the Cameron report. Edwards wrote this letter to John last year. It has not been posted, as far as I know. I am a bit hesitant to post out of the report due to possible copyright issues, if any.

Edwards did tip in LE back in '71 regarding Zodiac according to Tim Spencer's articles posted here. Just reposting it in case somebody missed it:

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=6126

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:42 am

AK Wilks wrote:
It could be...there have been at least a dozen ideas on what the symbols on the Halloween card mean. None are totally convincing IMO.

The BOO for BUJOK probably fits the best...the ED could be TED, EDWARD, also short for EDITOR...

I think lovecar noted the first part of this put I just thought of something else, prompted by a Daniel Gillotti post on the Halloween envelope from Zodiac.

The real name of the reporter is AVERY, correct?

But Zodiac spells out it AVERLY.

He adds an "L". Why?

PAUL AVERLY.

Zodiac then underlines LAV.

Why?

Reverse those letters he underlined, then read it out loud.

VAL ERLY.

Say that aloud.

VAL - ER - LY.

Sounds like VALERIE to me. Shocked

But that is just one of a dozen possibilities...



EXCELLENT WORK AK!!
VALERIE BOYLE is Troy Houghton's domineering mother. I got Val, but not VALERIE
EXCELLENT WORK!!! cheers
PS: One observation. If he had spelled AVERY correctly, then it would have really been correct:
VAL-ER-Y
VALERIE.
So I'm still confused why he added the L in AVERY's name. But I like the analysis, AK.
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:32 pm

Nin wrote:
John! A late welcome! Awesome discovery! I can't believe you found him in the video. As you said, he fooled everyone.

..

Sorry, thought you were John. Good find, azalel!

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:08 pm

Thanks Nin,

So EE was barking about Bujok (whom he calls Richard?) since 1971, when he learned about Z?

So possibly LE investigated Bujok already?

One of the things I heard or read about EE was that everything he did was a money scam, something to that effect. Makes me wonder.. Perhaps John or Kevin has interviewed other former inmates who can corroborate?
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:22 pm

bentley wrote:
Thanks Nin,

So EE was barking about Bujok (whom he calls Richard?) since 1971, when he learned about Z?

So possibly LE investigated Bujok already?

One of the things I heard or read about EE was that everything he did was a money scam, something to that effect. Makes me wonder.. Perhaps John or Kevin has interviewed other former inmates who can corroborate?

I cannot imagine they would not have investigate Bujok, Dryman and even Edwards himself, and any inmate from around the time of the '59 riot being released prior to '69 or in '69.
Don't forget, the newspaper article and any follow up would also advertise his book that was published in 1972. Edwards, the guy who changed from a hard criminal to a good citizen, the one who tipped LE off in other cases including the very active Zodiac case is giving lectures nation wide and is selling his book. You figure.

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:39 pm

And how could they not have compared Z's fingerprints with former inmates from Deer Lodge prison? After all, Z said he was an escaped prisoner from Deer Lodge.
Btw, of the 12 escaped inmates from Deer Lodge in the summer of 1968, only one got away for any length of time, and his name was Harold Bates. I'm not sure if he was ever re-captured. Here's the story. The person who clubbed the Butte woman was Zodiac. I'm sure of it.

Who's Hiding
In Mountains?
July 26, 1968
DEER LODGE (AP) - Who
Is the armed man believed to be
hiding in mountains between
Deer Lodge and Butte?
Montana Prison Warden E,C.
Ellsworth said Thursday the
man who was being sought after
allegedly clubbing a Butte woman
and taking her car "definitely
isn't one of our ex-inmates."
Ellsworth made the statement
following the arrest in Salt Lake
City of two prison escapees. One
of them had been believed to be
the man who vanished into the
mountains after abandoning the
Butte woman, Mrs, Alma Robuck,
and her car in the mountains.
The man allegedly held
the woman hostage for several
hours.
Although one of the 12 inmates
who escaped from the
prison July 15 is still at large'
Ellsworth discounted the possibility
that the escapee is the
man being sought in the mountains.
Ellsworth said the inmate still
missing, Harold Bates, 26, of
Billings, is believed to be on the
West Coast. Ellsworth said
papers identifying Bates were
found in a car stolen in Idaho.
The warden said prison officials
have abandoned their
search in the mountains between
Butte and Deer Lodge for the
mystery man who is thought to
be armed with three high-powered
rifles and ammunition.
However, Ellsworth said the
prison will cooperate in the
search if requested by law enforcement
agencies,
Ellsworth estimated prison
personnel have spent more than
300 man-days on search operations
since the 12 escaped. He
said the prison had about 20 men
working on the search about
eight hours a day each on their
own time. He said the men receive
no compensation for extra
time spent searching.

In this article, the man clubs the woman in the head. Compare this with the coed in Riverside who was attacked a few weeks after CJB's murder:



Last edited by rand on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The "Deer Lodge Gang" Edwards/Dryman/Bujok   Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:49 pm

And, if, in Deer Lodge "they called him the Zodiac" why didn't others, guards or inmates looking for a deal, drop a dime? Why only Edwards?
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