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 Equinox 3:33 p.m.

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Fri May 27, 2011 4:18 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Another thing I noticed that Zodiac did not do when he wrote.

If you look, when this person writes, the sort of make a little check-mark like stroke upward. I don't recall Zodiac doing that. This is done a lot with this letter writer.


There is no opinion stated in the FBI material I got,so who knows if its real. If i recall the FBI memo, it says Zodiac should not be ruled out.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Fri May 27, 2011 4:22 pm

Guess I would have to know why it should be ruled IN though Morf?

I think it is best many did get ruled out. Just more "garbage" thrown in the mix that didn't and/or wouldnt have helped solve the case anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Fri May 27, 2011 4:28 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
It is intended as a "?", I think, but written to perhaps look like a "Z" or a "2" IMO.

Morf, nothing on this letter says "Zodiac". Do you know why they consider it a possible Z letter?
Yes I thought it was one or the other and thanks for clearing that up.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Fri May 27, 2011 6:00 pm



On the slim chance that Z really wrote this as a clue to his ID, thinking the cops would never find him, Foreigner looked up and found for me, a guy from the bay area, middle name Phil, that had this very birthday. I then found a news article for that person (or someone in the same area with same name) that stated he had been arrested in 1959 for shooting a handgun at someone. Will see if I can find more on him.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sat May 28, 2011 4:36 am

morf13 wrote:
In July, 1975, someone claiming to be the Zodiac sent a letter in. It started with "Equinox 3:33 p.m." According to the FBI memo, it was "largely handwritten", and the Zodiac's known writing was "largely hand printed".

I requested this letter from the FBI and it was rejected a while back. I will appeal.

When I googled "Equinox 3:33 p.m.", I got the following-

Sep 22 Autumnal equinox, 3:33 pm, EST


Are you sure this letter was sent in 1975?

The letter itself is dated in Sep 22, 1972.

And if it indeed was sent in 1975, and in July, do you know what date of July?
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sat May 28, 2011 7:43 am

Theforeigner wrote:
morf13 wrote:
In July, 1975, someone claiming to be the Zodiac sent a letter in. It started with "Equinox 3:33 p.m." According to the FBI memo, it was "largely handwritten", and the Zodiac's known writing was "largely hand printed".

I requested this letter from the FBI and it was rejected a while back. I will appeal.

When I googled "Equinox 3:33 p.m.", I got the following-

Sep 22 Autumnal equinox, 3:33 pm, EST


Are you sure this letter was sent in 1975?

The letter itself is dated in Sep 22, 1972.

And if it indeed was sent in 1975, and in July, do you know what date of July?

You know Foreigner, that may have been a typo from me. I will have to see if I can find the original FBI document from when I requested this.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sat May 28, 2011 7:45 am

morf13 wrote:


On the slim chance that Z really wrote this as a clue to his ID, thinking the cops would never find him, Foreigner looked up and found for me, a guy from the bay area, middle name Phil, that had this very birthday. I then found a news article for that person (or someone in the same area with same name) that stated he had been arrested in 1959 for shooting a handgun at someone. Will see if I can find more on him.

By the way Foreigner, what did you think of the news article I pm'd you??
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 4:51 am

First observations, the two's look correct but the fours are wrong and also the three's are different. No resemblence in the writing. Def looks like Phil the other character could be a G or an elongated nine, making it 49 perhaps. Interesting but I doubt it's Z, you never know mind you. That's my first impressions anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 9:12 am

morf13 wrote:
morf13 wrote:


On the slim chance that Z really wrote this as a clue to his ID, thinking the cops would never find him, Foreigner looked up and found for me, a guy from the bay area, middle name Phil, that had this very birthday. I then found a news article for that person (or someone in the same area with same name) that stated he had been arrested in 1959 for shooting a handgun at someone. Will see if I can find more on him.

By the way Foreigner, what did you think of the news article I pm'd you??

I think it´s hard to say anything about that newsreport, due to that we don´t know if it is the T***** Philp M***** born April 4, 1941, and even if it was him, he didn´t harm anyone. And last , we don´t know if TPM have anything to do with the letter in question. I also found him listed as a PHILLIP middle name. By the way, I edited out this man's full name.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 9:42 am

Theforeigner wrote:
morf13 wrote:
morf13 wrote:


On the slim chance that Z really wrote this as a clue to his ID, thinking the cops would never find him, Foreigner looked up and found for me, a guy from the bay area, middle name Phil, that had this very birthday. I then found a news article for that person (or someone in the same area with same name) that stated he had been arrested in 1959 for shooting a handgun at someone. Will see if I can find more on him.

By the way Foreigner, what did you think of the news article I pm'd you??

I think it´s hard to say anything about that newsreport, due to that we don´t know if it is the T***** Philp M***** born April 4, 1941, and even if it was him, he didn´t harm anyone. And last , we don´t know if TPM have anything to do with the letter in question.
Yes, interesting, not enough to work with besides a guy with same middle name PHIL, living in San Fran with the same DOB mentioned in the letter, and was possibly the same guy shooting guns at people...even if he didnt actually shoot them, shooting at them at all is very troublesome.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 8:01 pm

morf13 wrote:
Theforeigner wrote:
morf13 wrote:
morf13 wrote:


On the slim chance that Z really wrote this as a clue to his ID, thinking the cops would never find him, Foreigner looked up and found for me, a guy from the bay area, middle name Phil, that had this very birthday. I then found a news article for that person (or someone in the same area with same name) that stated he had been arrested in 1959 for shooting a handgun at someone. Will see if I can find more on him.

By the way Foreigner, what did you think of the news article I pm'd you??

I think it´s hard to say anything about that newsreport, due to that we don´t know if it is the T***** Philp M***** born April 4, 1941, and even if it was him, he didn´t harm anyone. And last , we don´t know if TPM have anything to do with the letter in question.
Yes, interesting, not enough to work with besides a guy with same middle name PHIL, living in San Fran with the same DOB mentioned in the letter, and was possibly the same guy shooting guns at people...even if he didnt actually shoot them, shooting at them at all is very troublesome.

I have placed this guy "Phil" in Van Nuys area in 1973. In addition, if you recall the ladies I posted about being attacked just like Kathleen Johns in 1967,(see here: http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t49-almost-identical-to-the-johns-case) you will see that one of those cases took place on near NORDHOFF ST & TOPANGA CANYON BLVD. The attacker in these crimes was described as "mid 20's". This guy Phil was using an address on TOPANGA CANYON BLVD in 1973. In 1967 when those Kathleen Johns-like attacks happened, this man was 26! That is less than an hour from where Cindy Lee Mellin vanished from. Some people think she was a Z victim. Witnesses describe her attacker as 25-30 years old.


So here is what I have so far:

*A man born in San Fran, middle name PHIL, matches the same DOB written in the EQUINOX letter.
*In 1959, a man with the same name, a construction worker (still not sure it is him)gets in trouble in San Fran for shooting a gun at people
* In 1966, Cheri Jo Bates is killed in Riverside, while construction is going on at her school
* Fall of 1967, there are multiple Kathleen Johns-like attacks one of which is on Topanga Canyon Blvd. The witnesses see a 25-30 year old guy(this guy Phil was 26 years old at the time)
*In Jan, 1970, Cindy Lee Mellin, who some have considered a Zodiac victim was abducted by a man who apprently sliced her tire. The abductor was 25-30 years old. This guy Phil was 28 at the time
*In March,1970, Kathleen Johns is attacked by a man that is about 30 years old.This guy Phil was 28 at the time
*In 1973, I can positively place this guy PHIL as using an address on Topanga Canyon Blvd where the Fall 67 attacks happened, and less than an hour from the site of the Cindy Lee Mellin attack.

In every case above, the attacker's aprox age, matches the age of PHIL. So my question is, is this guy worth looking at closer?

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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 8:38 pm

Morf you and others have done some good work on this, and it is usually better to check out everything. Who knows? Keep digging a little.

But IMO, while interesting, I don't see this as likely leading to the identity of Zodiac as 1) The writing looks nothing like known Zodiac writing 2) the themes are weird and unfocused, don't match Zodiac themes and writing 3) I highly doubt Zodiac would flat out give his real first name and real birth date.

I doubt this is a real Z letter, it just looks and feels nothing like known Z letters IMO. But if this is from Zodiac, or someone who knew who Zodiac was or thought they did, I would look more into "Phil 4" perhaps being a reference to "Phil Sins". "Sins" does have 4 letters.

But bottom line, this writing just does not match Zodiac, and IMO is likely to be a hoax.

Do others agree or disagree?

I think the "Zodiac is going to...YOU ARE NEXT" has a better likelihood of PERHAPS being real, but with no handwriting on it, that will be hard to prove or disprove as real Zodiac.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 8:51 pm

Would you agree, or disagree that Zodiac likely disguised his writing in his letters he wrote? Assuming he did, and assuming he wanted to give the cops some "busy work", this letter 'could' be a real Z letter. As far as the writing not matching, how do we know this is NOT Zodiac's real everyday writing? The number 2 & 9 in my opinion are very close to Z. Plus, we have never seen confirmed Z cursive writing, so we can NOT do any kind of real writing comparison to Zodiac. The discussion on the letter certainly sounds like stuff that a guy named ZODIAC would be into, equinoxes and the like.
By the way his name is NOT Phil. Phil is his middle name. Giving the cops the name PHIL(especially if it was his middle name), and a DOB, back in 1972 is like the proverbial "needle in a haystack". The cops would search endlessly. But in 2011, it was not too hard for me to find (with a little help from fellow researchers). AK, I know you have your favorite suspect, hell I have mine, as does everyone else. But I am looking at all possibilities with an open mind. You show me another guy named PHIL that matches everything I said along with DOB in the Equinox letter, and I will give you a million dollars. The odds are impossible!
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 9:11 pm

Morf you asked for opinions, I gave mine.

As I said, you, foreigner and others are doing a great job on this, keep digging.

No the confirmed Zodiac letters are not heavily disguised IMO, and the opinion of Morrill and most other experts I have read on the subject.

Of course you and others can spend as much time as you like on this, I just value your skills and doggedness, and am giving you my opinion it is likely to be a dead end. It doesn't match any Zodiac writing. Zodiac, despite the name, never really talked about astrology that much. The writing here is unfocused, it doesn't feel like real Z writing IMO.

Maybe this is the guy you found who sent this in as a joke. Or it was sent in from an enemy of his. Who knows?

I mean, I just found out my POI has a hood in his cabin, and is signing his name with a large "Z" under it. So it is true I am focused on my POI, plus the Tylenol case is going on and a LOT to do there. So maybe I can't focus too much on this, maybe my view is off. I do always keep an open mind for other suspects, and I do think this letter is interesting. I just don't think it was likely from the real Zodiac. Maybe you could do a side by side with the door numbers and the Lass cursive. Maybe there is something here and I am just not seeing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 9:42 pm

Ok AK, thanks for the opinion. I do not know how to post side by side pics, only one over the top of the other.

EDIT- forget it. Side by side makes the forum display too wide.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 9:57 pm



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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Sun May 29, 2011 10:21 pm

AK Wilks wrote:



Those 2's look like matches, thanks for fitting them AK.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 7:19 am

Looks to me like the author is using two different styles in the parts that are printed. Some of the words, like ARIES and EQUINOX appear to be in the style used by draftsmen before computer-aided design.

The words FULL and MOON are not in draftsman style, though. For example, notice the two-stroke N in MOON as compared to the three-stroke N in EQUINOX. Also, the I in these two words is a single stroke, unlike the I in "I'll".

So this shows, at least, that the author can use and does use different styles of lettering.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 7:49 am

Jem wrote:
Looks to me like the author is using two different styles in the parts that are printed. Some of the words, like ARIES and EQUINOX appear to be in the style used by draftsmen before computer-aided design.

The words FULL and MOON are not in draftsman style, though. For example, notice the two-stroke N in MOON as compared to the three-stroke N in EQUINOX. Also, the I in these two words is a single stroke, unlike the I in "I'll".

So this shows, at least, that the author can use and does use different styles of lettering.

Good point JEM, we have seen Zodiac demonstrate different types of styles, like the RED PHANTOM letter, and the LITTLE LIST letter, and even the Melvin Belli letter,or mainly the envelope, which some have noted, looked like the font on Belli's house, which possibly meant Z had been to Belli's house.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 8:24 am

Here is the text of the letter, as I read it.

Please correct me if I have done some mistake or if you disagree on the wordings:


EQUINOX 3:33. p.m.

9/22/72 3+3+3=9

9+2+2+7+2=22

can't make it Sat. nite
but the spell is broken
& I hope . I'll see
you more than ever ?

Phil G (Theforeigner note: or is it a "C" or what is it?)

4/14/41

4+1+4+4+1=14 ?

FULL ARIES MOON !



I would like to figure out what the writer of this letter actually was trying to say?

IMO It is not like Zodiac's other letters which was kind of directly "talking" to the media/population/police recipent.
In this letter it seems like the writer is "talking" in private to one single person that he had previously planed som kind of meeeting with on "sat nite" ("Sat" beeing Sep 23, 1972).
But it seem somthing hindered him, however he seems to be happy to tell the recipent that "the spell has been broken" whatever that spell was?
And then he seems to tell the person that he hope they will see each other a lot in the future, but he say it by the wording " hope I'll see more than ever" which is an uncorrect wording as far as I know, right?
All the EQUINOX 3:33. p.m, and other numerology stuff in the note/letter IMO could be the writer showing the recipent of the note/letter how this EQUINOX 3:33 / FULL ARIES MOON/date etc realted to himself, his name? birthday? etc, that the writer and the recipent of the note/letter both were into celestial mystic and numerolgy etc.

Could this have been a note/letter somone recived from a friend and that the recipent of this note/letter suspected this person of beeing the Zodiac killer and then sent it in to LE?
I personaly belive that to be the most logical explanation for this letter.
IF that is the case, then the question is WHO sent the note/letter to LE? and WHO was the writer?

here are some additional observations:

The writer is saying that he can't make it "Sat. nite", Sat. nite was Sep 23, 1972, NOT Sep 22nd.
Fri Sep 22, 1972 = Full moon + Autumnal equinox
Sat Sep 23, 1972 = "First day of Sukkot" ( "First day of Sukkot" in 1969 was Sep 27, the day of the Lake Berryessa murder)


Last edited by Theforeigner on Mon May 30, 2011 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 8:28 am



And as you proably already know I belive that Zodiac diquised his true handwriting in all his letters/card, and that he indeed used a lot of different kinds of handwriting styles, all disquised IMO.
But IF this is from the Zodiac killer I belive that this handwriting might be one of his true handwriting styles.
I belive that the Zodiac killer had several true handwriting styles.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 8:37 am

Theforeigner wrote:

Here is the text of the letter, as I read it.

Please correct me if I have done some mistake or if you disagree on the wordings:


3:33. p.m 3:33. p.m.

9/22/72 3+3+3=9

9+2+2+7+2=22

can't make it Sat. nite
but the spell is broken
& I hope . I'll see
you more than ever ?

Phil G (Theforeigner note: or is it a "C" or what is it?)

4/14/41

4+1+4+4+1=14 ?

FULL ARIES MOON !



I would like to figure out what the writer of this letter actually was trying to say?

IMO It is not like Zodiac's other letters which was kind of directly "talking" to the media/population/police recipent.
In this letter it seems like the writer is "talking" in private to one single person that he had previously planed som kind of meeeting with on "sat nite" ("Sat" beeing Sep 23, 1972).
But it seem somthing hindered him, however he seems to be happy to tell the recipent that "the spell has been broken" whatever that spell was?
And then he seems to tell the person that he hope they will see each other a lot in the future, but he say it by the wording " hope I'll see more than ever" which is an uncorrect wording as far as I know, right?
All the EQUINOX 3:33. p.m, and other numerology stuff in the note/letter IMO could be the writer showing the recipent of the note/letter how this EQUINOX 3:33 / FULL ARIES MOON/date etc realted to himself, his name? birthday? etc, that the writer and the recipent of the note/letter both were into celestial mystic and numerolgy etc.

Could this have been a note/letter somone recived from a friend and that the recipent of this note/letter suspected this person of beeing the Zodiac killer and then sent it in to LE?
I personaly belive that to be the most logical explanation for this letter.
IF that is the case, then the question is WHO sent the note/letter to LE? and WHO was the writer?

here are some additional observations:

The writer is saying that he can't make it "Sat. nite", Sat. nite was Sep 23, 1972, NOT Sep 22nd.
Fri Sep 22, 1972 = Full moon + Autumnal equinox
Sat Sep 23, 1972 = "First day of Sukkot" ( "First day of Sukkot" in 1969 was Sep 27, the day of the Lake Berryessa murder)

Interesting observations Foreigner, and for some of the reasons you listed, I am not so fast to dismiss this letter as a hoax. I missed it mayben but does the FBI reports say who the recipient of this letter was and where they lived or worked? The letter is dated Friday, Sept 22. That tells me that the writer wrote it that day, talking about not making it to a meeting of some sort the next day, Sat Sept 23. Perhaps, this was a thinly veiled threat to someone, perhaps saying "i was going to kill you but something came up, but I will reschedule with you in the future"...of course I am being a bit funny, but that is the gist of the letter or tone that I sense.

And I am very fascinated by the SUKKOT DAY being Sept 23, 1972, but SUKKOT DAY was on Sept 27, the day of the Berryessa attack...Foreigner always finds good stuff. What is Sukkot day by the way?

Also Foreigner, I am very interested in that DOB included on the letter, 4/14/41, signed PHIL. That guy Phil you found is pretty interesting as he relates to possible Zodiac attacks, and this letter. I wish I knew what the second initial or number was.

By the way, the person wrote 4/14/41, and then something about ARIES. Someone who was born on 4/14/41 is indeed an aries!
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 8:38 am

Theforeigner wrote:


And as you proably already know I belive that Zodiac diquised his true handwriting in all his letters/card, and that he indeed used a lot of different kinds of handwriting styles, all disquised IMO.
But IF this is from the Zodiac killer I belive that this handwriting might be one of his true handwriting styles.
I belive that the Zodiac killer had several true handwriting styles.

I agree, and sadly, we do not have ANY confirmed cursive writing to compare to this. I am going to get my hands on a copy of 'Phil's handwriting. I think I can find some cursive from him.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 8:53 am

Maybe a coincidence, but a guy with the same exact name as PHIL (I think this guy is likely Phil's father)had a news story about him run in a southern CA newspaper, the day AFTER the "peek thru the Pines" card was mailed. The story was about how this guy was going to a retail conference in Iowa. Perhaps, IF this guy PHIL was the son of the man that went to the conference, and was the Zodiac, and was aware his Dad would be appearing in the paper, he didnt want to be upstaged, so he sent the pines card. The timing is awfully convenient.
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PostSubject: Re: Equinox 3:33 p.m.   Mon May 30, 2011 11:18 am

FWIW I don't see that as "Phil G" but as probably "Phil 4". Maybe even "Trib 4".
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