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Theforeigner
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:03 pm


Morf du you have any information on the envelope?

ANY kind of info on the envelope is of interest.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:23 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
Theforeigner wrote:
But I doubt he was the Atlanta murderer. Maybe he killed one or a few of the victims, but not all IMO.
Foreigner, are you saying that you believe Zodiac killed at least one of the children murdered in Atlanta?

No I´m not saying that I belive he did, I´m trying to say that he might have killed one of the victims (or maybe another victim, somone not included in the Atlanta murders?).

I belive he was traveling through Atlanta in March 1981, and knew all about the murders and decided to send a letter, to enjoy the game of it.


And I, different from other posters here, I find the "tone " in the letter as very Zodiac like .
Also several exact wordings are previous used by Zodiac, like thise wordings:

"Pick off" in one Z letter
"you people" in one Z letter
"have (got) to tell you" in one Z letter
"By the way" in two Z letters

And many single letters in the letter is VERY Zodiac like, it is just, as he tell us, he choose to change his handwritingstyle, BUT the single letters are still very Zodiac like IMO.

And then take a look at his signing of the letter with his name; "Zodiac" in that name his handwriting is very different from the rest of the letter and IMO VERY much his old Zodiac like handwriting style.

Just my humble opinion of course.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:36 pm

Perhaps Morf or someone else knows more about the envelope. All I know is what is stated below - there was an address, but it is covered up.


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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:56 pm


I found out who the march 8, 1981 letter was addressed to.
It was posted on Zodiackiller.com by somone nickanmed Artny February 01, 2007 & February 04, 2007 :

Quote:
Details about the March 8, 1981 letter:
was addressed to 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (WXIA-TV-11). Fingerprints & palm prints were found. I have the exact # somewhere


Quote:
I had seen the letter referenced in the Zodiac FBI file. The results that are in the Zodiac file are barely legible. This is where I got the actual Atlanta address from, the copy is so bad they never scored off the address (they probably couldnt read it either) So I figured maybe the Atlanta file would have a clearer copier, and it did
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:00 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
The FBI dismissed this poem as from an "educated individual" who wanted attention, but likely NOT the real killer.

What they didn't know at that time is that this writer WAS RIGHT, and another body of a boy WOULD be found in the area where Lubie was found.

What do people think of the content? Both Zodiac and EAR/ONS wrote poems.

What do people think of the cursive writing? Any similarities to the Lass card? Other writing from another case?

"Ghost" is like a "Phantom". Red Phantom? DC Freeway Phatom, who also killed young black children?

Is this a hoax? If so, how did the writer know another body would be found in that field? Lucky guess, maybe.

Wayne Williams was convicted of killing two mentally retarded adult men, and they said "He also killed all the children, case closed". Even though a white male was seen with some of the victims, and caucasian light brown body hair was found on some victims.

Some recent mtDNA tests showed Williams likely did kill some of the children, but very serious doubts remain he killed them all.

And Williams was not a white male.

The tie-in is that there were items found on or near some of the bodies of Atlanta victims as this 3/8/81 letter claims, and I don't think that was reported in the press at the time. It seemed like the FBI treated this Atlanta Zodiac letter very seriously. And while there are dozens of hoax letters dismissed as such in the FBI Zodiac file, they did not dismiss this one. To my eye it doesn't look much like most Z writing, yet the FBI expert says Zodiac can't be ruled out. Weird.





AK Wilks were did you find the "Poem" letter? I have tried to find it on the net but no sucsess.

And do you have the text in printed letters, or can it be found somwere, because I can´t read/understand it all?

I´m VERY interested in more info on the "Poem" letter, like:
When was it postmarked?
Were was it postmarked
To whom was it addresed?
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:04 pm


AK Wilks, and anyone else, do you have any information on what thise clues alledged left at the victims/murderscens actually was?

"there were items found on or near some of the bodies of Atlanta victims "
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:32 pm

Theforeigner wrote:

AK Wilks, and anyone else, do you have any information on what thise clues alledged left at the victims/murderscens actually was?

"there were items found on or near some of the bodies of Atlanta victims "

Sorry Foreigner, I dont know much more besides what has already been posted here, and on the old archived Zodiac Killer thread.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:38 pm

Theforeigner wrote:

I belive it was written by Zodiac.
But I doubt he was the Atlanta murderer. Maybe he killed one or a few of the victims, but not all IMO.

I live in Atlanta and know some people who lived in the areas where the Atlanta Child Killer(s) were active. Those neighborhoods have not changed much in the last 30 years, but a white man roughly 30-50 years old would not go unnoticed lurking around there. Unknown persons are still observed. Any unknown white males were closely observed, and Caucasian men, even those living in those areas and known by neighbors, were reported as possibly being the killer in several instances. The neighborhoods were on the lookout for any suspicious person and those going to the area to solicit prostitution or participating in other illicit activities with young, African Americans were intensely observed. After law enforcement admitted that there was a child killer operating in the area, the scrutiny became even more intense.

My opinion is that Z could not have been responsible for any of the murders of children in ATL at that time. Maybe he wrote a letter or 2 in order to take advantage of the publicity, but I think a member of the Ku Klux Klan or a racist makes a better culprit. I would think that one of the killers wrote the "Please stop forced bussing" letter to throw police off his trail.

A side note: I have given a friend of mine (who lives within 1 mile of Wayne Williams' former house) a ride home from work on several occasions. 3 times I have been pulled over for suspicion of doing something illegal simply because my friend and I are not the same race. The first time, officers took a Polaroid of me and put it in a book. The last 2 times they fully searched me and my car with drug sniffing dogs (apparently because my photo was in the book of people who have been pulled over in that area before and that somehow equals probable cause) and told me that white people, such as myself, generally go to this area for illicit purposes. I was also informed that if my friend and I did not know each others names or our stories differed, we would likely be arrested! My friend explained to me that police have treated people in this manner, regardless of race, for decades. My friend also told me that if I were to drive around that area, I could be arrested because of a law prohibiting driving through the area several times. Apparently, this is because people looking for prostitutes, drugs, or intend to commit a violent crime exhibit this behavior.

I do not know for certain, but my friend's father told me that these tactics have been used by police in the area since the late 70's- so you can see why I think it is highly unlikely Z was responsible for any of the Atlanta Child Murders.

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:42 pm

I had heard that somebody sent a letter from Atlanta to Tom V claiming to be Zodiac, but I dont know anymore details, perhaps someone can ask Tom. Not sire if that is true or not.
Also, someone sent a letter from Atlanta to Penn State regarding the murder of Betsy Aardsma, whose case had some paralells to Bates.

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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:20 am

Foreigner

Give me a day or two to go over my notes.

http://foia2.fbi.gov/atlanta/atchi2b.pdf

Poem is there p. 37 and after.

Atlanta Constitution newspaper gave poem to FBI on 2/10/81. That is just 2 days after the post mark on the "Zodiac" Atlanta letter. IMO likely these two messages were sent by the same person.

As to items found on or near the bodies, there were several, I have to go through my notes.

In one case it was two Remington Peters shotgun shells. In others it was cigarette butts.

Female victim Angela Lanier was found with her hands bound with an electrical cord and panties stuffed in her mouth.

Another was a tablecloth and doily.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:26 am

Thank you for obtaining this document, Morf!

My first impression was that the writing looked nervous and shaky which reminded me not only of the Channel Nine letter but also the JonBenét Ramsey ransom note.

Previously, there was someone who linked the Zodiac case to the Atlanta Child Murders case who was at the Zodiac task force meeting at Blue Rock Springs Park on July 5, 2009.

http://www.myspace.com/waynewilliamszodiackiller

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:37 pm

Theforeigner wrote:

I found out who the march 8, 1981 letter was addressed to.
It was posted on Zodiackiller.com by somone nickanmed Artny February 01, 2007 & February 04, 2007 :

Quote:
Details about the March 8, 1981 letter:
was addressed to 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (WXIA-TV-11). Fingerprints & palm prints were found. I have the exact # somewhere


Quote:
I had seen the letter referenced in the Zodiac FBI file. The results that are in the Zodiac file are barely legible. This is where I got the actual Atlanta address from, the copy is so bad they never scored off the address (they probably couldnt read it either) So I figured maybe the Atlanta file would have a clearer copier, and it did

Thats interesting, if true, about this racist Atlanta "Zodiac" letter.

The racist May 78 Zodiac letter was sent to LA TV Station 9.

The racist Judge Vance mailbomber sent a letter to Atlanta TV Station 5, WAGA, to Brenda Wood.

And the racist Judge Vance mailbomber used as a return address the exact same Atlanta street that the "Zodiac" Atlanta letter was addressed to, PEACHTREE. I understand that is a big downtown street. But there must be a hundred such streets in Atlanta, odd that this one street shows up twice.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:54 pm

WOW, Butterfield posted this Atlanta letter on the main page at his site- http://zodiackillerfacts.com/Suspected_Zodiac_Letter_March_1981.htm
Interestingly, he called it a 'suspected' Zodiac letter. Shocked He then further down in the page called it a 'suspected forgery'.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:48 am

You are correct about PEACHTREE being a common street name in downtown Atlanta. It is very easy to get lost on West Peachtree, Peachtree Industrial, Peachtree Lane, Peachtree Place, Peachtree Avenue, etc. It sort of a prestige issue among businesses to locate your business on Peachtree Street, the main thoroughfare in the city- especially among lawyers according to my brother.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:33 am

Right. But both the "Zodiac" Atlanta letter and a letter from the Judge Vance bomber had addresses of "Peachtree Street".

What that might mean, beyond coincidence, I don't know, but it is odd. I mean there are probably 1,000 streets in Atlanta.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:41 pm

Interestingly enough, although the general opinion of the forum here seems to be that this letter was not written by Zodiac, the FBI report states "the writer of the Zodiac letters SHOULD NOT BE ELIMINATED" as the writer of this letter.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:51 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Right. But both the "Zodiac" Atlanta letter and a letter from the Judge Vance bomber had addresses of "Peachtree Street".

What that might mean, beyond coincidence, I don't know, but it is odd. I mean there are probably 1,000 streets in Atlanta.

I agree, AK. I was just suggesting that perhaps the bomber had been to an office on Peachtree Street or used Peachtree Street because Judge Vance may have assumed it was sent from a lawyer. Perhaps you are right and the author and the bomber are the same person, but if I had to bet on any street in Atlanta being coincidentally chosen by 2 different people, it would be Peachtree Street.

Peachtree Street is the Atlanta's main street, and 3 streets are connected to it (with variations of the name Peachtree) leading to confusion. Before the days of SatNavs and google maps, people would often get confusing directions by locals referring to any street such as Peachtree Industrial as Peachtree Street.

"It is often joked that half of the streets in Atlanta are named Peachtree, and the other half have five names to make up for it. While "Peachtree" alone always refers to this street, there are 71 streets in Atlanta with a variant of "Peachtree" in their name."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peachtree_Street

Are the street numbers from the bomb or the "Atlanta Zodiac" letter known like 1500 Peachtree Street or something like that?
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:45 am

Looks like 1611 W. Peachtree Street NE 30308
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:57 am

Curious Dice:

Are there television stations relatively close to that street address?? Hmm. Just looked and it appears it may be NBC. Interesting. I don't suppose you know or could possibly check to see if the radio stations have always operated out of 1601 or could some have operated out of the 1611 W. Peachtree street address?

Soze
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:51 am

soze wrote:
Curious Dice:

Are there television stations relatively close to that street address?? Hmm. Just looked and it appears it may be NBC. Interesting. I don't suppose you know or could possibly check to see if the radio stations have always operated out of 1601 or could some have operated out of the 1611 W. Peachtree street address?

Soze

Here is a quote from my post the other day, the rest of the post is in page 2 of this thread:

" 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (WXIA-TV-11) .
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:58 am

AK Wilks wrote:
EXCELLENT!!!

That IS the famous never before seen until now "Atlanta Child Murders" - "Zodiac" letter!

It was postmarked "Atlanta, GA March 8, 1981".

I wrote about it before:

I am doing a FOIA request for this letter mentioned in the FBI Atlanta Child Murders file.

It says it is from the Zodiac, and the FBI handwriting analyst could not say it was from Zodiac, but he could NOT exclude it as being from Zodiac.

All we know is it starts:

"Hello its me. Haven't you..."







Another letter is this time frame, perhaps also from this "Zodiac", was a demand that the Washington Post classified run this ad as a secret message:

DANIEL PLEASE CALL HOME




At almost the same time, a message was sent in the same way as the Zodiac Sacramento Cancer and Leo cards - in a prepaid envelope.

This letter was treated as credible, there are 10 pages on it in the files, and 3 kids were killed that March in Atlanta.

Only three cities got this insert for classic model cars that the message came in - Harrisburg PA, Chicago IL and Long Beach FLA.




If these are all related to the Atlanta 'Hello its me' letter, than that seems like quite a bit to go thru to for a hoax. Wasnt the forced bussing letter mailed from Cleveland?

Perhaps, the writer was travelling on business or visiting relatives when they mailed it?
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:09 pm

Theforeigner wrote:
soze wrote:
Curious Dice:

Are there television stations relatively close to that street address?? Hmm. Just looked and it appears it may be NBC. Interesting. I don't suppose you know or could possibly check to see if the radio stations have always operated out of 1601 or could some have operated out of the 1611 W. Peachtree street address?

Soze

Here is a quote from my post the other day, the rest of the post is in page 2 of this thread:

" 1611 W Peachtree ST NE 30308 (WXIA-TV-11) .

Thanks TF. Interested in a clearer image of the poem myself. Any word?
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:13 pm

Can anything else be shed on the insert? Interested in a few of the papers listed.

Soze
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:57 pm


I´v tried to write out the "Poem"




Well your all afraid, your all upset
Cause non of those cops have cought me yet
Ive struck again and didn´t leave a clue
Now the whole city don´t know what to do
You finaly found Julie,her xxxx xxxxx all the xxxxxx
Keep looking you might find another child
You think that the number stops at nineteen
xxxx, there are some things you haven´t seen

One night some kids got killed in a fire
I struck the match, so the death toll is higher
But you can´t seem to catch me. I wonder why
Thousands of you see me everyday when I pass by
It´s pathetic to know that I can get away
The first degree murder on any chosen day
Politicians are wounded as the plot thickens
leaders running around like headless chickens
All different cops can´t cooperate with the others
You will never catch me, you xxxxxing mothers
Go back from the rediculous to the sublime
and you´ll find that I´v been with you everytime
xxxxx better start looking before it´s too late
xx there will be another "50-48"

So now I leave you with this peice of eveidence
Don´t do somthing stupid like dust it for prints

The Ghost Killer


here you can find the "poem", with possibility to enlage the letter:
http://foia2.fbi.gov/atlanta/atchi2b.pdf

Poem is there p. 37 and after.


Please add corrections, and/or if any of you can find out the words that I could´t figure out.

Maybe a thread of its own for this letter? If anyone think so please feel free to move this post.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:31 pm

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t478-the-ghost-killer-poem-in-atlanta-child-murders

If we want to get real specific on the poem, we should do it there.

I think it is OK to talk about the poem and other Atlanta writings as they relate to this HELLO ITS ME possible Zodiac writing, and the overall tie-in to the Atlanta case.

LUBIE was the name of one of the Atlanta victims.

POEM



Well your all afraid, your all upset
Cause none of those cops have caught me yet
Ive struck again and didn´t leave a clue
Now the whole city doesn't know what to do
You finally found Lubie, he's been there all the while
Keep looking you might find another child
You think that the number stops at nineteen
Man, there are some things you haven´t seen

One night some kids got killed in a fire
I struck the match, so the death toll is higher
But you can´t seem to catch me. I wonder why
Thousands of you see me everyday when I pass by
It´s pathetic to know that I can get away
With first degree murder on any chosen day
Politicians are worried as the plot thickens
Leaders running around like headless chickens
All different cops can´t cooperate with the others
You will never catch me, you bumbling mothers
Go back from the ridiculous to the sublime
and you´ll find that I´v been with you everytime
You'd better start looking before it´s too late
Or there will be another "50-48"

So now I leave you with this peice of evidence
Don´t do somthing stupid like dust it for prints

The Ghost Killer


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