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 HELLO IT'S ME

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morf13
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PostSubject: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:19 pm

In the past 12months, I made several FOIA requests to the FBI for any previously unreleased confirmed, or unconfirmed Zodiac letters to be released. I had early success with Bleeding Knife & a couple others. But mostly I got letters stating that the material I requested could not be released. Today I got one that I asked for. It starts with "HELLO IT'S ME". It was one of the letters mentioned in the FBI Zodiac files. Please forgive me. I forget when the letter supposedly came in or where it was mailed from. There is an FBI file in the reports that mentions this letter. It may have been one of the Atlanta letters, but I will have to double check. I will not share my opinion yer on this letter until more people see it. But let me know what you think pro or con, and please feel free to distribute to any other Zodiac related forums or sites for further evaluation.



Last edited by morf13 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:32 pm

EXCELLENT!!!

That IS the famous never before seen until now "Atlanta Child Murders" - "Zodiac" letter!

It was postmarked "Atlanta, GA March 8, 1981".

I wrote about it before:

I am doing a FOIA request for this letter mentioned in the FBI Atlanta Child Murders file.

It says it is from the Zodiac, and the FBI handwriting analyst could not say it was from Zodiac, but he could NOT exclude it as being from Zodiac.

All we know is it starts:

"Hello its me. Haven't you..."







Another letter is this time frame, perhaps also from this "Zodiac", was a demand that the Washington Post classified run this ad as a secret message:

DANIEL PLEASE CALL HOME




At almost the same time, a message was sent in the same way as the Zodiac Sacramento Cancer and Leo cards - in a prepaid envelope.

This letter was treated as credible, there are 10 pages on it in the files, and 3 kids were killed that March in Atlanta.

Only three cities got this insert for classic model cars that the message came in - Harrisburg PA, Chicago IL and Long Beach FLA.





Last edited by AK Wilks on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:51 pm

My FIRST thought is that most of this does not look much like "Classic" Zodiac writing, and thus is probably a "fake." Or perhaps from the "real" Atlanta Child Killer, just trying to lead police down a false Zodiac trail. But more likley just a hoax.

My SECOND thought is that the writing looks somewhat like the May 1978 "Zodiac" letter sent to the LA TV station. That letter also had racist elements in it (use of the "N" word, threat to kill black radical Eldridge Cleaver) and the Atlanta Child Killer targeted blacks. I see SOME similarities in the writing.

My THIRD thought is that since the FBI could not dismiss this as being from the real Zodiac, I (and others) need to study this more before reaching any final conclusion.

There were some things found on and near the bodies, as the writer mentions.

This is interesting.






Last edited by AK Wilks on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:05 pm

I thought the term "used to stalk women" was interesting for two reasons.

First, it reminds me of the Bates letter..."I am stalking your girls"

And second, I think most people outside of CA would mostly associate Z with lovers lanes attacks and shootings. I dont know how much someone in Atlanta would know about the Z case, and that he was suspected of attacking girls like Bates, Johns, or Lass.

Lastly, the writing to me does not look much like Z. But I am interested that the FBI couldnt rule this letter out as being a real Z letter.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:20 pm

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:32 pm

morf13 wrote:
I thought the term "used to stalk women" was interesting for two reasons.

First, it reminds me of the Bates letter..."I am stalking your girls"

And second, I think most people outside of CA would mostly associate Z with lovers lanes attacks and shootings. I dont know how much someone in Atlanta would know about the Z case, and that he was suspected of attacking girls like Bates, Johns, or Lass.

Lastly, the writing to me does not look much like Z. But I am interested that the FBI couldnt rule this letter out as being a real Z letter.

Good points Morf.

IF Zodiac did kill Bates, Lass and maybe some other women like Hakari, Bennallack and some of the "Sonoma County Coed" cases, then he may well have thought of himself as a killer of women. We do have the fact that in 2 of the 3 couples attacks, the women died while the men lived, leading some to speculate that his fury was focused on women. Yet it seems a faker would say Z was a "lovers lane couples killer". Also, as you note the use of "stalk" matches the "Confession" letter in the Bates case.

The term "little people" is odd.

The term "Rebels" seems a jibe at the intelligence (or lack thereof) of Southern law enforcement.

The "pick off" reference is to the bus threat letter? "pick off the kiddies as they come bouncing out"?

"I'll ------ to kill children to kill children because they are so easy to 'pick off' ".

Can anyone decipher the "-----" ?


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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:46 pm

AK wrote... "Can anyone decipher the "-----" ?"

I couldnt read that either AK. Might be 'try to'
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:00 pm

I sent this to zodiackillertruth, zodiackillerfacts, mansonzodiacconnection, mk-zodiac, zodiologists, unazod.

Anyone else or another site I should send it to?

I did not send it to zodiackiller, as Tom V told me when I sent him the "Bleeding Knife" letter that he did not want anything from me or morf. So be it. For those who are friends with Tom V, you may send him this and tell him he can post it if he wishes. In fact, please do.

The idea is to get this, and other possible Z letters, out to as many people and researchers as possible, to get the most feedback and analysis possible. even if we are not on close or even friendly terms with the site operators.

All members, please post this anywhere you think it would find an interested audience, and send to anyone you can think of who might want it.

Thanks to Morf for getting this - hopefully my FOIA appeals will be resolved soon, and I will get the Zodiac "In the woods dies April" card, the San Jose Z letter and the July 78 letter!

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:04 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK wrote... "Can anyone decipher the "-----" ?"

I couldnt read that either AK. Might be 'try to'

It looks like +r

This letter does have mostly 3 stroke "k" 's and checkmark "r" 's, like the Zodiac.

But most of it does NOT look like classic Zodiac writing. As the writer himself notes.

It looks sloppy, like it was done with the non-dominant hand maybe?

It DOES look like the May 78 letter IMO. Wonder what Howard Davis thinks? He is an expert on the May 78 letter.

What do others think?

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:10 pm

I'm pretty sure the letter says "I'll to kill..." My guess is that he meant to write "I like to kill" but made a cock up of it.

I don't feel that Z wrote the letter as apart from the handwriting, it doesn't seem to match Z's "progress" in letter writing - ie. it comes across as a spoof of his early letters packed with little phrases which were too obviously Z like, whereas the real Z subtly evolved into cryptically writing as "a friend", "a citizen" and the "Red Phantom".
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:26 pm

*looks at the letter*

Someone's trying too hard.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:41 pm

Although some of the wording is of interest to me, I have to agree that Z did not write this letter. It does look like somoene attempted to make it look Z-like... still interesting to see some of these letters, and what police had to deal with all the time in the Z case
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:05 pm

Here's a link to an old archived discussion of this Atlanta letter.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/messages/28/1012.html?1171242095

Supposedly, prints were recovered from the letter.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:20 pm


I belive it was written by Zodiac.
But I doubt he was the Atlanta murderer. Maybe he killed one or a few of the victims, but not all IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:24 pm



Forgot to say : GREAT JOB !!! getting hold of that letter cheers
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:53 pm

The FBI dismissed this poem as from an "educated individual" who wanted attention, but likely NOT the real killer.

What they didn't know at that time is that this writer WAS RIGHT, and another body of a boy WOULD be found in the area where Lubie was found.

What do people think of the content? Both Zodiac and EAR/ONS wrote poems.

What do people think of the cursive writing? Any similarities to the Lass card? Other writing from another case?

"Ghost" is like a "Phantom". Red Phantom? DC Freeway Phatom, who also killed young black children?

Is this a hoax? If so, how did the writer know another body would be found in that field? Lucky guess, maybe.

Wayne Williams was convicted of killing two mentally retarded adult men, and they said "He also killed all the children, case closed". Even though a white male was seen with some of the victims, and caucasian light brown body hair was found on some victims.

Some recent mtDNA tests showed Williams likely did kill some of the children, but very serious doubts remain he killed them all.

And Williams was not a white male.

The tie-in is that there were items found on or near some of the bodies of Atlanta victims as this 3/8/81 letter claims, and I don't think that was reported in the press at the time. It seemed like the FBI treated this Atlanta Zodiac letter very seriously. And while there are dozens of hoax letters dismissed as such in the FBI Zodiac file, they did not dismiss this one. To my eye it doesn't look much like most Z writing, yet the FBI expert says Zodiac can't be ruled out. Weird.




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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:15 am

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:23 am

Theforeigner wrote:
But I doubt he was the Atlanta murderer. Maybe he killed one or a few of the victims, but not all IMO.
Foreigner, are you saying that you believe Zodiac killed at least one of the children murdered in Atlanta?
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:21 am

There was also a lover's lane killer in Atlanta in the late 70's. The murders and attacks took place during 27 or 28 day intervals. He has never been identified, but he was not a white male iirc.

"Atlanta's Lovers Lane Killer-A Southern Zodiac?
There are many baffling murders and crimes committed every day. Many go unsolved. I am always enthralled with the mysteries surrounding the Jack the Ripper and Zodiac murders. They were never solved, and the blogsites, presses, and chat boards light up with theories and ideas about the identity of these killers, as well as their motives.

In Atlanta, in 1977, such a crime spree occurred. The killings were dubbed the Atlanta Lovers Lane Killings, and the murderer was called the Lovers Lane Killer. Like the Ripper and the Zodiac Killer, Atlanta's Lovers Lane Killer was never nabbed."

read the rest of the article here:
http://georgiamysteries.blogspot.com/2009/08/atlantas-lovers-lane-killer-southern.html

(I wouldn't usually copy and paste, but articles on blogs have a tendency to disappear)

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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:11 am

I don't believe this is an authentic Z communication. The author makes an excuse for the dissimilar handwriting (dead giveaway IMO) and even quotes the 'kiddies' letter ("pick off"). Trying way too hard and not succeeding. But thanks for bringing this to light morf.

-tbz
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:03 am

Yeah, great job getting that letter posted... Doesnt have the right Zodiac feeling.
And whats up with the crosshair? Wouldnt the Zodiac be proud enough of his work to sign with a remotely artistic crosshair?
And I get the feeling that somewhere along the line the writer recognise that his copycat handwriting doesnt match so he throws in a "oh, by the way I have a new handwriting style.." But anyway, its great work getting a hold of that letter.... Thanks....
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:09 am

Maybe we will get our hands on some previously unreleased letters that are more impressive than this one. I was more inpressed with the "this state is in trouble" & "bleeding knife of Zodiac" letters.
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:36 am

Yes, overall, looking at this 3/8/81 letter, it is not very impressive. The word play and langauge doesn't really seem like real Zodiac, and most of the handwriting doesn't fit too well. And like thebigZ noted, the author makes an excuse why his handwriting doesn't match. The puzzling things is, why did the FBI expert say the real Zodiac could NOT be dismissed as the writer of this letter? Do they know things we don't? We don't have the envelope, and we don't know the circumstances surrounding this letter.

Weird things were going on in Atlanta. A letter that may have been from the killer of Betsy Aardsma was sent in from Atlanta, I think in 1979. See http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t627-zodiac-the-atlanta-child-murders-and-betsy-aardsmaall-connected-read-on-and-decide

And the VANPAC mail bomber did bombs and threat letters there in Atlanta in 1989. See http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=107

And we have the "3 black boys" card, the "Daniel Please Call Home", the Ghost Killer poem that seems to know inside info and others.

This letter seems sloppy, like it was written with a non-dominant hand. It does have low cross "t" 's like Zodiac, and the "k" 's and "r" 's are Z like. But most of it seems way off. I would like to know why the FBI thought this could be Zodiac, when they quickly dismiss dozens of other fakes in the file.

The possibilities would be:

1. Was the Zodiac involved in any of the Atlanta Murders?

2. Was it from the real Zodiac falsely injecting himself into the Atlanta case? Like he did with the SLA case?

3. Or is it from the real Atlanta Killer, laying a false trail to Zodiac to confuse police?

4. Or was it just a hoaxer?



The big one I am waiting for is the "In the woods dies April" card. That is considered an authentic Zodiac communication by the SFPD and FBI. See http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t469-in-the-woods-dies-april-possible-zodiac-card-july-13-1971


Last edited by AK Wilks on Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:57 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:10 pm

Congratulations Morf cheers'

I don't know but it seems to me the letter might have been written by a young child. That would explain why the Zodiac mentions children and his new writing style.

Deborah Perez did mention something similar before. Could this be a letter written by her??
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PostSubject: Re: HELLO IT'S ME   Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:42 pm

Great stuff Morf getting this letter (fingers crossed for more). To me though like some of the other guys here I do think the wording is strange. Little people and rebels are very odd choices, also I don't get the same attitude and hostility from this letter, dare I say it seems a tad polite. I doubt the Zodiac committed any of the Atlanta child murders but I wouldn't doubt if still alive he may have tried to claim he did. Jury's out till I immerse myself in it a bit more. Here's hoping the postie brings you more mail soon Morf:)
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