| Paul Avery | |
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+6Nachtsider tahoe27 Zamantha bentley Nin morf13 10 posters |
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Seagull Chief
Posts : 1150 Join date : 2010-03-06 Location : No. California
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 4:16 pm | |
| In the California Birth Index there is a Jerome Senkir listed as having been born in SF in 1947. He would have been 22 in 1969 when the Stine murder happened and could have been a rookie I suppose. He is not listed in the Social Security Death Index so he's probably still around. | |
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tracers Chief
Posts : 530 Join date : 2010-03-06
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 4:21 pm | |
| Looks like Senkir was/is a cop: A march 20, 2003 article http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-03-20/bay-area/17483545_1_grand-jury-transcript-chief-earl-sanders-tsenin - Quote :
- The judge ordered stricken from the publicly released transcript any references to a remark made by Jerome Senkir, a sergeant at the department's management control division who was involved in the internal investigation.
Tsenin said the comments by Senkir, whom she called "a minor witness," were "incredibly inflammatory," could be misunderstood and probably would not be admitted into evidence anyway.
Senkir was an acting supervisor the morning of the Nov. 20 incident, while Harold Butler was the investigator in the case. The judge ordered portions of Butler's testimony sealed, along with parts of the testimony of Sgt. John Fewer of Park Station.
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Theforeigner Chief
Posts : 880 Join date : 2010-03-06 Age : 68 Location : Denmark
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 5:09 pm | |
| - tracers wrote:
- Looks like Senkir was/is a cop:
A march 20, 2003 article
http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-03-20/bay-area/17483545_1_grand-jury-transcript-chief-earl-sanders-tsenin
- Quote :
- The judge ordered stricken from the publicly released transcript any references to a remark made by Jerome Senkir, a sergeant at the department's management control division who was involved in the internal investigation.
Tsenin said the comments by Senkir, whom she called "a minor witness," were "incredibly inflammatory," could be misunderstood and probably would not be admitted into evidence anyway.
Senkir was an acting supervisor the morning of the Nov. 20 incident, while Harold Butler was the investigator in the case. The judge ordered portions of Butler's testimony sealed, along with parts of the testimony of Sgt. John Fewer of Park Station.
This is IMO mindblowing!!! I mean were EXACTLY! and with WHOM! was this Jerry/Jerome Senkir in the first 1-30 minnutes after Zodiac left Paul Stines car!??? | |
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tracers Chief
Posts : 530 Join date : 2010-03-06
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 5:15 pm | |
| yes, this looks very interesting, but we need to also consider the possibility of bad reporting in terms of the sequence of events described in the article. But I do find it very odd that Senkir is quoted as saying he wonders if he let the Zodiac slip away. So either Senkir liked to look important and lied about stopping the man or he is telling the truth.
Doesn't seem likely Avery would be hanging out with a wanna-be/liar though, does it? He knew the case inside out. | |
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morf13 Admin
Posts : 6416 Join date : 2010-03-04 Age : 52 Location : NJ
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 6:19 pm | |
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tracers Chief
Posts : 530 Join date : 2010-03-06
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 10:48 pm | |
| I emailed the author of the article, asking about the encounter Senkir described, the reporter's association with Paul and if Paul had the actual Halloween card in his possession back in the 1980's. Although I asked a number of detailed questions, the reporter did not have many details to provide in their response. Here is what I asked - Quote :
I have some questions I was hoping you might be kind enough to take the time to answer.
1) You write that you worked with Paul Avery in the 1980's. When and where?
Did Paul work or live in Orinda at the time?
What was Paul like?
2) You write that when asked, Paul would take out a copy of the Zodiac killer Halloween card that had finger print dust on it.and let people see it.
Was this card the actual card that had been sent to him by the Zodiac?
What parts seemed to have been made and added to the card by Zodiac?
3) You write that Sgt. Jerry Senkir and Paul sat and play cards and Jerry said, "'I'll always wonder, did I just let the Zodiac slip through my fingers,' Sgt. Jerry Senkir said, and Paul would peer at him and intone for the hundredth time: 'What did you say he looked like, again?'"
Based on what I read so far, two officers named Fouke and Zelms saw a man walking away from the scene on the next street over, but since they had already heard the shooting suspect was a "Negro" or "Black" (I forget the exact term used) they did not stop the man.
According to your story and Senkir's words, Senkir saw a man BEFORE the dispatch stated the suspect was a "Negro" or "Black" and actually stopped the man for a moment. Then heard the dispatch that the suspect wasn't white and let the man go.
Do you remember anything more than Senkir or Paul may have said about this incident of Senkir stopping a white male?
Did he say WHERE he stopped the man? Which street or intersection?
Was Senkir alone in his patrol car or did he have a partner with him?
What did Senkir say the man looked like?
Did his description gel with the composite that has become so well-known?
Do you know if he had any input with creating the composite?
Did Senkir say anything about what else transpired that night or later on after he reported his stopping of a white male near the scene to his superiors?
So far I have only read about two officers named Foukes and Zelms driving past a white male near the Stone scene. It's exciting to find out another officer saw a man too and I wonder if the man he stopped was the same man seen by the other two officers.
Any information you can provide would be so greatly appreciated! and here is what they wrote back: - Quote :
Hi... Paul and I worked at the San Francisco Examiner. We both lived in the city.
Actual card. Original suspect description was for a black male, Senkir and partner saw a white male heading in the direction of the Presidio that fit later description of Zodiac.
That's all I have beyond an association with a few of the investigators who worked the case later.
Good luck,
JD
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Seagull Chief
Posts : 1150 Join date : 2010-03-06 Location : No. California
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sat May 28, 2011 10:53 pm | |
| Wow, great work ladies! So there is quite possibly another pair of officers who may have seen Zodiac that night. I wonder if those two officers played a part in the revised composite?? Obviously Jerome Senkir should be interviewed. You may have hit on something that was held back from the general public! | |
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Nachtsider Chief
Posts : 927 Join date : 2010-04-20 Age : 36 Location : Behind you
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sun May 29, 2011 12:17 am | |
| Hmm. So there might just be more to this than meets the eye.
Next stop, Jerome Senkir. | |
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morf13 Admin
Posts : 6416 Join date : 2010-03-04 Age : 52 Location : NJ
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Sun May 29, 2011 10:34 am | |
| Interesting stuff....keep digging! | |
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Qz1 Sergeant
Posts : 77 Join date : 2011-10-18
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:35 am | |
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morf13 Admin
Posts : 6416 Join date : 2010-03-04 Age : 52 Location : NJ
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:13 am | |
| - Qz1 wrote:
- Any developments?
Tom V wrote this over at ZK.com- "Ok, I just called Jerry. Thanks to Tracers for sending me his number. Nice guy that Jerry. It was his first night on the street. He was with an experienced patrolman, but doesn't recall his name. He doesn't recall the intersection where his sighting occured, or even the street. But it was in or very near Presidio Heights where the shooting happened. They were responding to the dispatch. He doesn't think they spoke to the subject or stopped him in any way. They soon took part in the search of the Presidio. He doesn't know if the police knocked on doors on Jackson Street or Washington Street to alert residents of possible danger and find witnesses. ("You'd think they would have" was his quote.) Jerry said he doesn't recall coming forward with his info via a report etc, and didn't help with a composite. He said he saw lots of people that night en route. This guy stood out because he matched the corrected description" Does not seem like the guy was really helpful | |
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Qz1 Sergeant
Posts : 77 Join date : 2011-10-18
| Subject: Re: Paul Avery Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:11 pm | |
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