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 Darlene's Ex - Jim C.

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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:13 pm

There is a lot of valid discussion about Jim. Some have brought up some really good points. I thought it worthy of it's own thread.

For starters....many have referred to Jim (supposedly) being in attendance of Darlene's funeral. I for one do not think it was Jim and his girlfriend.

1) Zodiac wasn't even Zodiac when her funeral took place. Wouldn't have made major headlines yet.
2) Add to the above, she was "Ferrin" so even if there was a small article, not pertaining to Zodiac, he could be truthful when he said he didn't know her new name.
3) Why would he show up then lie about being there when most in her immediate family knew him. Doesn't make sense.
4) Why would he show up at all? He didn't even like her.
5) Jim's girlfriend would not have been "showing" at the time. His son was born early February of '70. She would have only been about 4 months pregnant--if I'm not mistaken.

I believe the pregnant woman was Carmela Leigh. Just a few days shy of giving birth.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:47 pm



Hi Tahoe, great thread:)

JC´s wife gave birth to their son 22 Dec 1969, not in Feb 1970.

And does anyone know the exact date of Darlene Ferrin´s funeral ?
I have tried to find that info for a while but have never been able to find it.

In order to messure how far pregnant JC´s wife was at the time of DF´s funeral we need to know what date the funeral took place.

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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:55 pm

In America, for Christians, absent a prolonged autopsy or other issues, funerals are almost always held within about 4 to 14 days of death.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:01 pm


Tahoe wrote:

"I believe the pregnant woman was Carmela Leigh. Just a few days shy of giving birth."


Carmela Leigh gave birth 15 Jul 1969.

So that is 10 days after Darlene was murdered, was Darlenes funeral arranged within 10 days of her murder?
And don´t you think Darlene´s familymembers or at least Dean Ferrin would know Carmela Leigh, her and her husband beeing Darlene and Dean´s landlords and Deans boss:

Info on darlene Ferrin:
"Lived at 560 Wallace in a building owned by Bill and Carmela Leigh, Dean’s bosses at Caesar’s Palace Italian Restaurant, where he worked as an assistant cook"
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:03 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
In America, for Christians, absent a prolonged autopsy or other issues, funerals are almost always held within about 4 to 14 days of death.

Thanks AKW, but due to that this was murder, I wonder if they possibly indeed prolonged that period?
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:20 pm

I doubt it, probably just a regular one or two day autopsy.

There was - at the time of her death - nothing to indicate this was "Zodiac" or anything other than a tragic but routine murder.

BTW, Darlene was cremated, so there was no funeral, just a wake.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:08 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
I doubt it, probably just a regular one or two day autopsy.

There was - at the time of her death - nothing to indicate this was "Zodiac" or anything other than a tragic but routine murder.

BTW, Darlene was cremated, so there was no funeral, just a wake.

A killer who taunt the police by phone them about his murder right after the killing... from a phoneboot just around the corner from the police station...and no robbery or sexual assult motive...AND the killer also informed them in that phonecall that he "also killed those kids last year" [referring to David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen]... would not be concidered just a routin murder IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:08 pm

Theforeigner wrote:


Hi Tahoe, great thread:)

JC´s wife gave birth to their son 22 Dec 1969, not in Feb 1970.

And does anyone know the exact date of Darlene Ferrin´s funeral ?
I have tried to find that info for a while but have never been able to find it.

In order to messure how far pregnant JC´s wife was at the time of DF´s funeral we need to know what date the funeral took place.


Yes TF---my bad. He was 5 weeks old in Feb. I still think she wouldn't have been that noticeable. I do think Dean would have known Carmela wasa there, but not necessarily knowing Pam, etc. thought she was Jim's girlfriend. I bet LE was in attendance as well and would have kept an eye open for her ex.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:12 pm

Theforeigner wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
I doubt it, probably just a regular one or two day autopsy.

There was - at the time of her death - nothing to indicate this was "Zodiac" or anything other than a tragic but routine murder.

BTW, Darlene was cremated, so there was no funeral, just a wake.

A killer who taunt the police by phone them about his murder right after the killing... from a phoneboot just around the corner from the police station...and no robbery or sexual assult motive...AND the killer also informed them in that phonecall that he "also killed those kids last year" [referring to David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen]... would not be concidered just a routin murder IMO.

Valid points...but keep in mind, at this time there was no "Zodiac" in the case, and the US has 20,000 murders a year, about 25% unsolved. So while there were odd aspects about the case, murder is pretty routine in America. In any event, with a shooting, there would not likely be an issue of multiple autopsies and second opinions. Bottom line, I think the cremation and wake would likely fall within the typical one to two week time period, if that helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:13 am

Even if the murder did not seem routine due to the phone call, after the autopsy is done and the coroner has made his report, there is no legal reason for the body to be withheld from the family. It would be released. I wish we knew more about the funeral/wake or whatever was held for Darlene. At a wake people mingle and offer family condolences, while at a funeral service, the family is in the front pews of the church or in a little alcove offside. If the family was seated in the front, it is possible Dean did not look back and see any pregnant woman. Also, we do not know if this pregnant woman stayed for the event or just slipped into the back to pay respects and quickly left. There's just too many unanswered questions. Also, why would Darlene's relatives have to tell LE 6 months later that Jim had attended the funeral? Wouldn't LE have been there looking for possible suspects?

From the way Jim recently spoke of Darlene, I doubt he would have bothered keeping track of her. He was glad to be rid of her and thought her family strange. He moved from Vallejo soon after dropping Darlene back home--I think he said he stayed there 3 days--and it is totally plausible that he had no idea she had remarried and when she was killed he had no idea. Even if he somehow did know about the death, I do not see him making the trip to Vallejo to attend the services for a woman he couldn't stand.

As for whether or not the pregnant woman Darlene's relatives claim they saw at the funeral with Jim, at the time of the funeral/wake/whatever it was, Jim's girlfriend would have been 4 months pregnant. How would anyone be able to tell she was pregnant, especially if she was in the back of the church in a pew surrounded by other people? She'd have to be wearing a leotard or something. I'm sorry a lot of it makes no sense to me.


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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:45 am

Everyone, please choose your words carefully when it comes to Jim C. Remember, he had ZodiacZee shut down in one day. Then again, he asked the owner of that forum multiple times to remove a photo of him, and some of the posts. That is one advantage of having a private forum, its a bit harder for people to visit the site, and see every post made, thus less chance of people getting pissed off.

I agree with Tracers, I think he had not an ounce of compassion, or care regarding Darlene's murder. He has made that quite clear. On the other hand, being cold like that doesnt make him Zodiac. For those that have suspicions of Jim, I see valid points that you are making, and would love to know why he had the holes in his stories. If he turned out to be Z, then that would be the biggest police blunder in history!
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:10 pm

Oh, one thing I should add: even though Darlene was cremated and there was no taking of the casket to the cemetery, there most likely was a funeral service in a church or at service room at the crematorium. When my mom died and was cremated, we had a wake and funeral service for her in the church. So when Darlene's relatives said they saw a man who they claim /thought was Jim and a pregnant woman at the back of the church, that is totally believable. I just am not convinced the man and woman they saw were Jim and his pregnant girlfriend.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:21 pm

I think if Crabtree's child was not born until Feb. 1970 that his girlfriend would not have looked pregnant even if Darlene's wake had not been held for a month after her murder. And it was probably held sooner than that after her death. Could have been a case of Darlene knowing a couple that fit the description, who her family did not know. The family may have assumed in retrospect that it was Crabtree based on the long hair the guy was wearing when they learned Crabtree had long hair.

Another thing I think should be mentioned is the divorce laws back then. Darlene and Jim were divorced before California had the no fault divorce laws and divorce in California took a year or better before it was finalized. I suspect that Darlene went to Nevada because she could get a quickie divorce. If one wanted to do that you had to establish residence in that state for six weeks. Nevada still required grounds for a divorce, there was no irreconcilable differences statute. Grounds were usually something like adultery or physical abuse. Jim may not have actually been a wife beater but went along with it because he too wanted out of the marriage. Domestic violence while it could be used as grounds for a divorce was not considered a horrible crime as it is today. (Thank goodness times have changed)

Not saying he wasn't mean to Darlene or that he never committed any sort of domestic violence but the claim of physical abuse could have been exaggerated to get the divorce.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:05 pm

Just to clarify--Jim's child was born Dec 22, 1969, not in Feb 1070. Feb 1970 is when the police report that they questioned Jim, and his GF and 5 week old son were present, or at seen by LE at that time. Given that, I have seen many women who are 4 months pregnant and they do not look pregnant. So, I question the comments made by Darlene's family to LE in January 1970 about their seeing Jim with a pregnant woman in the back of the church.

Also note that in the transcript we have of the divorce proceedings, Darlene never even mentioned physical abuse until her attorney directly questioned her about it. At first she said she wanted a divorce because Jim couldn't support them and she hated moving around so much. It could very well be that the physical abuse never happened and was simply brought up to make sure the divorce was granted. If there had been actual physical abuse, why didn't Darlene mention that in her petition for divorce? Like Seagull says, back then Nevada did not have No Fault divorce, so some more pressing reason had to be given to get a divorce. I doubt lack of money and having to move a lot would have qualified.

I, like Seagull, have no idea what did or did not take place between Jim and Darlene, but I do find it suggestive that Darlene didn't mention physical abuse until prompted by her lawyer.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:40 am

Thanks for the correction about when the baby was born. I still don't think that Crabtree's girlfriend's pregnancy would have been that obvious at the time of Darlene's wake/funeral. The woman who was pregnant must have been pretty far along to have been noticed by the family as the couple was seated in the last row of the church and the family would have been up front.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:59 am

I can see it both ways. If the woman was with Jim or any other she could have been showing well or not at all. If she wanted to show off she was carrying it would have been very easy to do and maybe that's why others noticed.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:17 pm

Can someone please confirm Crabtree's middle name for me?
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:49 pm

Quagmire wrote:
Can someone please confirm Crabtree's middle name for me?

I think Foreigner has it.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:15 pm

Quagmire wrote:
Can someone please confirm Crabtree's middle name for me?

Her you go:

California Birth Index, 1905-1995
about James Douglas Phillips
Name: James Douglas Phillips
Birth Date: 8 May 1944
Gender: Male
Mother's Maiden Name: Crabtree
Birth County: Los Angeles

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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:33 am

A belated thanks TF for your reply to my question.

My next question: Did someone (Sandy?) say that Crabtree had a nickname of fox or something similar?
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:51 pm

Don't know if he uses The Fox as a nickname as such Quagmire, but when he complained about the old ZodiacZee site he wrote his complaint under the user name Jimmyfox. There is a small discussion on here somewhere about the use of Fox. There had also been an environmental activist in the sixties known as Jimmy the Fox who was an altogether different guy but who's real name was James Phillips. I know Sandy at the time told us that a fox tail was found underneath a murder victim (may or may not have been Doreen Gaul, Sandy will tell you) that's about all I can recall.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Sat May 07, 2011 1:05 pm

pons,
That was Doreen Gaul/James Sharp 11/21/69. A foxtail was found under each victim.There was/is a Fox Tail Flats at LB.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Sat May 07, 2011 1:15 pm

Thanks for that info Howard. I wasn't quite sure whether it was Doreen's case or not where the Fox tails were found. Thanks for verifying that. Strange that fox tails were left there and I did not know about Fox tail flats at LB, cheers for the info.
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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Sat May 07, 2011 1:43 pm

The police have 2 suspects in the Gaul/Sharp case. As a matter of fact, one confessed,but recanted. They didnt have enough evidence,but police are sure that the 2 men are responsible for the double murder. The Detective handling the case told me this. Neither man had any ties to the bay area. This was the quote from the Detective:

"This is a brutal 1969 double murder of two teens (19-year-old female and 15-year-old male) who were kidnapped and murdered while walking to the Scientology Church. It appeared that the female victim was sexually assaulted. Both were stabbed multiple times and bludgeoned with a tire jack. A suspect, James G., was arrested in 1975 on an unrelated offense and confessed to being at the crime scene with another suspect, Arthur D. James G.confessed because he “wanted to get it off his chest” and told detectives that he was forced at gunpoint to participate by Arthur D. Detectives suspected that James G. was not being truthful as to his actual participation in the murders (ie he was a willing participant rather than forced). Although James G. story was very detailed and accurate, Detectives were not able to corroborate his story with the case evidence. The original detectives worked this case vigorously until 1980 and even attempted to file the case with the DA. The DA’s office did not file the case due to lack of evidence. I contacted Property Division when I was reviewing this case and discovered that all evidence in this case was authorized for destruction on 1/27/97. I am still trying to determine if a latent print package exists on this case. Both suspects appear to be alive. Arthur D. is in his 80’s and James G. is in his 60’s."



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PostSubject: Re: Darlene's Ex - Jim C.   Sat May 07, 2011 1:52 pm

If I recall I'm sure that there was a witness who at the time heard the name Jimmy being used near the place/time of the Gaul/Sharp murders. Could be the James.G. you have Morf. I've always felt it was Scientology enforcers who killed the three of them. By all accounts Gaul wanted out. You would think a decent confession would at least have gotten some form of trial. Good info Morf.
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