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 San Jose Zodiac Letter?

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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:43 pm

Yes I agree.

Still waiting.

At one point I expanded my first request for the 12/16/69 Fairfield letter and envelope to also include the LEO card and some other things. That may have delayed things a little.

Then I have a request on the Vance mail bomb case.

And this request for Zodiac letters from 69, 71, 78 and 81.

A FOIA request can take weeks to months to never. I am hoping and expecting the first stuff to come any day now.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:53 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
OK. Smile

But I do think that is the best candidate so far.

It could be 9 letters redacted. What do you think?

Any other murders that created a widow?

Some of the others you found are potentially viable as well.

I shared this info with the Alameda County Detective in charge of the June 67 case, and his response was- "very interesting big time". Once again he is short handed, and working a major case. He hopes to have time in the next few weeks to look more at the 67 case, and anymore ties to Zodiac, and also to see if the San Jose widow could be the June 67 Victim's widow. Unfortunately, many of the files & records from back then were lost or destroyed, so he will have to contact the FBI again, as well as the relatives of the victims. May be a longshot that she could be the widow mentioned, but worth a look.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:55 pm

Update on FOIA Requests

I have two pending FOIA requests to the FBI. One is about the VANPAC case, the murder by mailbomb of federal Judge Robert Vance, and the other is in the Zodiac case, four letters from 1969 (San Jose letter), 1971 (In the woods dies April - Monticello card), 1978 (Tape letter) and 1981 (Atlanta child murders).

I got a phone call from the FBI yesterday and returned the call today. It was from the FOIA work processing unit. The woman was polite. She explained that there were 200,000 documents in the VANPAC case, and seemed to think I had asked for them all. I explained to her I was only requesting the 3 itmes I specified. She told me there would be "search fees", that 2 hours of searching is free, but after that it was $4.00 per 15 minutes for a clerk, $10.00 per 15 minutes for an agent. I told her to go ahead, up to $50.00, and she thought that would cover it. So I should be getting the VANCE documents fairly soon, hopefully.

I also asked her about my Zodiac request. She said she was not handling that one, but would look it up on the computer. She said it showed that it was being worked on, apparently there were no objections and no search fees, and that I would get a response "soon".

So I take this all as slightly good news! We shall see.
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:09 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Update on FOIA Requests

I have two pending FOIA requests to the FBI. One is about the VANPAC case, the murder by mailbomb of federal Judge Robert Vance, and the other is in the Zodiac case, four letters from 1969 (San Jose letter), 1971 (In the woods dies April - Monticello card), 1978 (Tape letter) and 1981 (Atlanta child murders).

I got a phone call from the FBI yesterday and returned the call today. It was from the FOIA work processing unit. The woman was polite. She explained that there were 200,000 documents in the VANPAC case, and seemed to think I had asked for them all. I explained to her I was only requesting the 3 itmes I specified. She told me there would be "search fees", that 2 hours of searching is free, but after that it was $4.00 per 15 minutes for a clerk, $10.00 per 15 minutes for an agent. I told her to go ahead, up to $50.00, and she thought that would cover it. So I should be getting the VANCE documents fairly soon, hopefully.

I also asked her about my Zodiac request. She said she was not handling that one, but would look it up on the computer. She said it showed that it was being worked on, apparently there were no objections and no search fees, and that I would get a response "soon".

So I take this all as slightly good news! We shall see.

Good to hear AK. Keep us posted. I havent heard anything at all on my last FOIA request
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:15 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
Update on FOIA Requests

I have two pending FOIA requests to the FBI. One is about the VANPAC case, the murder by mailbomb of federal Judge Robert Vance, and the other is in the Zodiac case, four letters from 1969 (San Jose letter), 1971 (In the woods dies April - Monticello card), 1978 (Tape letter) and 1981 (Atlanta child murders).

I got a phone call from the FBI yesterday and returned the call today. It was from the FOIA work processing unit. The woman was polite. She explained that there were 200,000 documents in the VANPAC case, and seemed to think I had asked for them all. I explained to her I was only requesting the 3 itmes I specified. She told me there would be "search fees", that 2 hours of searching is free, but after that it was $4.00 per 15 minutes for a clerk, $10.00 per 15 minutes for an agent. I told her to go ahead, up to $50.00, and she thought that would cover it. So I should be getting the VANCE documents fairly soon, hopefully.

I also asked her about my Zodiac request. She said she was not handling that one, but would look it up on the computer. She said it showed that it was being worked on, apparently there were no objections and no search fees, and that I would get a response "soon".

So I take this all as slightly good news! We shall see.

Good to hear AK. Keep us posted. I havent heard anything at all on my last FOIA request

Finally heard back from the FBI. I sent them 3 separate FOIA requests about 2-3 months ago, and finally heard back today. The 3 requested questioned documents were-
1. The alleged Zodiac letter found in a phone booth
2. The alleged letter in a bottle from Zodiac found floating in the delta
3. The possible Z letter sent to the DMV

I got one single response which was "the document & info you have requested is part of a file that is not avalable for declassification". I dont know if that was a turn down for one of my requests, or for all of them. We will see.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:22 pm

What a bunch of crap!

A message in a bottle is classified? Come on.

Maybe when the FBI woman told me I would be getting a "response" soon, this is the type of response I will get as well? I hope not.

You have a right to appeal. Or at least question it and ask for a more detailed reason.

If they give me a blanket turn down with no valid detailed reason I will appeal.

And go to court if needed, if it comes to that. F--k them, the public deserves to know the truth. They are not releasing documents either out of a knee jerk bureacratic response and/or a desire to hide their own incompetence.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:14 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
What a bunch of crap!

A message in a bottle is classified? Come on.

Maybe when the FBI woman told me I would be getting a "response" soon, this is the type of response I will get as well? I hope not.

You have a right to appeal. Or at least question it and ask for a more detailed reason.

If they give me a blanket turn down with no valid detailed reason I will appeal.

And go to court if needed, if it comes to that. F--k them, the public deserves to know the truth. They are not releasing documents either out of a knee jerk bureacratic response and/or a desire to hide their own incompetence.

Not sure how the appeal works, but it looks like you have to show proof of an urgent need, or a police matter
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:33 pm

Its complicated. But the FOIA law REQUIRES release UNLESS they have one of the valid given reasons for an objection - national security, privacy of living person, ongoing police investigation, etc.

'So you have to see what their reason is, and if it doesn't seem valid, you have a right to file an appeal.

For me, I am saying as I sit here now, if they deny me on Zodiac without what I consider a valid reason, I will appeal it.

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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:25 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Its complicated. But the FOIA law REQUIRES release UNLESS they have one of the valid given reasons for an objection - national security, privacy of living person, ongoing police investigation, etc.

'So you have to see what their reason is, and if it doesn't seem valid, you have a right to file an appeal.

For me, I am saying as I sit here now, if they deny me on Zodiac without what I consider a valid reason, I will appeal it.


I read it closer, and it mentions that releasing the info could hinder or compromise ongoing investigation of an open case...man, makes me want to see it even more Mad
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:11 am

"I read it closer, and it mentions that releasing the info could hinder or compromise ongoing investigation of an open case"

Bullshit, I say that is a lie by them!

A 40 year old case that they haven't done anything on in decades.

This case was bungled from the start, and they don't want the files out to show how stupid they were.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:06 pm

I find it kind of strange that they sent that response to you Morph, wonder which of the three you are not allowed to see. Hope it's not the message in the bottle would love to see that as it mentions Feb 2, would love to see that writing. Bloody strange.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:00 pm

Solar Pons wrote:
I find it kind of strange that they sent that response to you Morph, wonder which of the three you are not allowed to see. Hope it's not the message in the bottle would love to see that as it mentions Feb 2, would love to see that writing. Bloody strange.

I agree, I am hoping that their rejection was only a rejection of one request, and not all 3.
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PostSubject: My Zodiac FOIA Requests Were DENIED   Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:30 pm

I had made a FOIA requst to the FBI about the Zodiac case, and requested:

1. San Jose Zodiac letter and envelope 11/21/69

2. Card with letters over pictures 7/13/71 "Monticello...In the woods dies April"

3. Zodiac letter and envelope Atlanta Child Murders 3/8/81 "Hello its me. Haven't you..."

4. Zodiac letter and envelope 7/19/78 sent from LA, "I am the Zodiac and I am in control...", mentions "tape".

I did get 2 of the 3 documents I requested in the Judge Vance mail bomb murder case, so even though they denied the crucial DNA report in that case, I was somewhat hopeful on the Zodiac case.

But I got a letter today from the FBI in which they DENIED all four of my requests.

I will appeal. It is frustrating and a bit depressing, but I am not giving up.

This is what they said in relevant part:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The material you requested is located in an investigative file which is exempt from disclosure pursuant to 5 USC Sec. 552(b)(7)(A) [which] exempts from disclosure:

rcords or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information...could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings...

In applying this exemption, I have determined that records responsive to your request are law enforcement records; that there is a pending or prospective law enforcement proceeding relevant to these records; and that release of the information in these responsive records could reasonably be expected to interfere with the enforcement proceedings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To which my response is "Huh?"

The Zodiac case is more than 40 years old, most of the leading suspects are dead, there is no known breakthrough evidence and the chance of an "enforcement proceeding" such as an arrest or trial seems totally remote and very far fetched.

Allen, Marshall, Gaikowski and most other named major suspects are dead, thus there can be no trial against them. Kaczynski is still alive...are they saying there is a strong chance of an arrest and trial against a Zodiac suspect? I highly doubt it.

I think this is just a knee jerk, reflexive response, an excuse to deny the release of info.

None of the four items I requested is a confirmed Zodiac letter. The 1978 one is a probable hoac, the 81 and 69 are possible hoaxes, and the 71 I think is probably real but that is not confirmed. All of the confirmed Zodiac letters HAVE been released, most of them decades ago! What possible valid reason is there to deny the release of 4 possible but unconfirmed Zodiac letters? What a bunch of BS!

Some will speculate that this case was botched from the start, and they don't want information to released to show how it was mishandled.

In any event, I think this denial violates the law, as the law REQUIRES disclosure UNLESS it meets the specific criteria.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:02 am

Bummer AK Rolling Eyes I know how you feel. Keep trying
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:24 pm

I am sending my appeal on the denial of the VANPAC case DNA report.

Today I finished drafting my appeal letter regarding the FBI denying me the four Zodiac letters I requested.

This is the draft. If anyone has any ideas to add, or suggestions or criticisms, please let me know, I will probably mail this tomorrow (1-13-11) or maybe Friday (1-14-11). So if you have any thoughts, or you think this is good as is, please let me know now. I very much want us to get these letters, so we can examine them and find what clues they may hold!

Director, Office of Information Policy
US Department of Justice
------------------------
------------------------



FREEDOM OF INFORMATION APPEAL

FOIAPA REQUEST # --------------------

Subject: Zodiac Letters
(1969, 1971, 1978, 1981)

Director

On December 22, 2010, I recieved a letter from David Hardy denying my FOIA request noted above. The denial letter cited 5 U.S.C. Sec. 552 (b)(7)(A). It stated "I have determined that the records responsive to your request are law enforcement records; that there is a pending or prospective law enforcement proceeding relevant to these responsive records; and that release of the information contained in these responsive records could reasonably be expected to interfere with the enforcement proceedings."

The records concern the case of the Zodiac Killer. It is a 40 year old case. There are NO pending or prospective law enforcement proceedings. None. And there is no REASONABLE likelihood of any in the near future.

Moreover, even if there were to be a proceeding in the future, the release of the requested letters would NOT in any way interfere with the proceeding. The four letters requested are letters that may have been written by the Zodiac Killer, but none are confirmed as such. In this case, ALL of the confirmed Zodiac letters HAVE ALREADY BEEN RELEASED TO THE MEDIA AND THE PUBLIC. These letters have formed the basis of numerous articles, books and movies. In one instance, the release of a coded letter led to a California school teacher and his wife (Mr. and Mrs. Harden) breaking the Zodiac Code. The release of these requested letters may lead to new clues in the case. There is absolutely no valid legal reason to deny their release.

The cited law, 5 U.S.C. Sec. 552 (b)(7)(A) clearly states that law enforcement records may be exempt from disclosure "BUT ONLY TO THE EXTENT that production of such law enforcement records or information...COULD REASONABLY be expected to INTERFERE with enforcement proceedings". (Emphasis added).

Thus the denial is wrong and in violation of the law. In fact about two months ago I requested a Zodiac letter from the FBI (Fairfield 12/69) and it was sent to me. All of the confirmed and most of the suspected Zodiac letters have been released to the public already. There is no reason to think the release of these letters should be treated any differently.

I ask that the requested letters be sent to me as soon as possible. The public has the right to know the truth in this case, and release of these letters may even help to solve the case or at least generate new clues and leads. If needed I will pursue any further denial in court.

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:25 pm

Sounds good to me AK, good luck! I really want to know more about this "widow in San Jose".
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:39 pm

I agree, sounds good, direct and to the point. Hope it works!
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:31 pm

Thanks!

It is on its way.

I will keep everyone updated.
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