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 San Jose Zodiac Letter?

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:33 am

This is the only other possibility I could find as far as a victim that was shot and murdered, and the Victim's wife was initially arrested and released as they had no tie for her to the crime. Judging from these articles, Z, whether he was the killer or not, could have read about this story in the papers.

5/15/69 Oakland Tribune:


5/19/69:


5/22/69:


Other than the cases I have posted about, I cant find anymore stories about a murdered man during mid to late 1969, that looks Z related.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:42 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Just guessing, because we don't have most of the facts.

The "- + 6 2 + -" was analysed by someone (not the FBI) as perhaps meaning "1620". That seems like an address to me, be it "1620" or just something like "_ _ 6 2 _ _". Seems like a 2, 4 or 6 digit address? Any other ideas?

Then they say it says "November = 8", then they refer to a "postmark", and say it could mean "November 28", of course a date, and this letter was sent on November 21, 1969, and one week later, November 28, 1969 Betsy Aardsma was killed.

But in terms of looking for a San Jose area murder, perhaps one that left a widow, I would look for a "28" date, an "8" date, a November date. And also for a case that may have an address or other number associated with it with a "62", "1620", a "_ _ 6 2 _ _" or a "28". Just my ideas, based on the very little we know from this interesting letter and code.

Hey AK
Nice find!
The second page you posted from the FBI files.........last paragraph........first sentence it says "The furnished interpretation of -+62+-................." I took that to mean the author told them what it meant. In other words the author of the letter furnished the interpretation although it does seem kinda strange that they would try to "prove it analyticaly" so perhaps I am off base.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:49 pm

Why would "Zodiac" tell them that "- + 6 2 + - " means 1620?

My thought was that "furnished" meant what the San Jose Police told the FBI what they thought it meant.

In other words that the number "1620" was somehow associated with the "widow" they think Zodiac is refering to. An address or some other number involving that murder case that created the widow.

That is my guess.

But who knows?
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:52 am

My thought when I first read the FBI page where the woman's name is redacted is that not only is there a name there but also an address which is in San Jose. I don't think that the woman's name is that long or hyphenated.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:26 pm

Seagull wrote:
My thought when I first read the FBI page where the woman's name is redacted is that not only is there a name there but also an address which is in San Jose. I don't think that the woman's name is that long or hyphenated.

Yes I agree.

The second time they say the widow's name, it is much shorter, and it looks IMO like 5 to 8 letters are redacted.

Meaning perhaps her last name is 5 to 8 letters long?

Anybody have a different and/or better theory? Or guess?

One other things - anyone know what "Butte tel" means? Telephone call, yes, but who or what is "Butte"?

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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:48 pm

Could be right about the long redacted line including the name & address, and then the shorter line just being her name.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:28 pm

Does a 5 to 8 letter name seem to fit about right?

Does that help you in terms of San Jose widows?

So far I like your June lovers lane case the best, Morf.

"R O D R I G U I Z" is 9 letters, might be too long? But perhaps she remarried or went back to maiden name?

And I guessed 5 to 8 letters, it could be 9.

And what does "Butte" mean?

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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:00 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Does a 5 to 8 letter name seem to fit about right?

Does that help you in terms of San Jose widows?

So far I like your June lovers lane case the best, Morf.

"R O D R I G U I Z" is 9 letters, might be too long? But perhaps she remarried or went back to maiden name?

And I guessed 5 to 8 letters, it could be 9.

And what does "Butte" mean?


Actually, its RODRIGUEZ, but I get your point.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:08 pm

OK. Smile

But I do think that is the best candidate so far.

It could be 9 letters redacted. What do you think?

Any other murders that created a widow?

Some of the others you found are potentially viable as well.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:28 pm

I thought this was interesting.
Butte County is north of Sacramento.
According to Wikipedia.
In 1966 they founded Butte-Glen Community College and in 1967 they began offering law enforcement, fire science, and vocational nursing classes.
Also the town of Paradise is located nearby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte_College
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:43 pm

Interesting.

The other thing I find is that - duh! - there is a Butte, Montana. Though I have no idea why they would be involved in this matter.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:13 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
OK. Smile

But I do think that is the best candidate so far.

It could be 9 letters redacted. What do you think?

Any other murders that created a widow?

Some of the others you found are potentially viable as well.

Ak Well, My gut tells me that this double murder was Z. And as I previously stated, due to $$ cutbacks, and shortages in man power, the Alameda investigation for a Z link is delayed for now. That being said, I think it is a Z crime and it has all the indications of being a Z crime. Plus something that really caught my attention- the victims, and their Family members were receiving crank anonymous calls between 10:30 & 11:00 am. The caller never said anything, they would always hear heavy breathing. This happened before AND AFTER the murders! A couple weeks after the murders, the male victim's widow received one of these calls. Even more interesting, and what really jumped out at me, was the fact that Robert Graysmith was receiving identical "heavy breather" calls, years after the 1967 murders. These calls usually happened between 10:30 & 11:00 am. Coincidence????

I dont really know how long the redacted name is, but I will PM you the full name of the victim's widow. It seems like it could fit. I will ask the Detective in the case if he can find out if this widow could be the widow from the letter. I really dont hold out much hope as many of the records were lost or destroyed from the original case. It was only by luck that they still had some of the bullets in the lab, and I provided them with some news articles in addition to articles that they had also put aside.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:16 pm

Good points. I mostly agree.

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:44 pm

Pleasanton, near where the couple was murdered on 6/8/67, is about 35 minutes from San Jose. Looks like Sunol is even closer, maybe 25 minutes.

If Zodiac didn't know CA real well, and it is night, could he have thought he was in San Jose, or the county San Jose is in, Santa Clara? Or that he was in the Greater San Jose Metro Area? San Jose is the third largest city in CA.

Is Pleasanton/Sunol considered a satellite or suburb of San Jose, or more of Oakland?



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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:52 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Pleasanton, near where the couple was murdered on 6/8/67, is about 35 minutes from San Jose. Looks like Sunol is even closer, maybe 25 minutes.

If Zodiac didn't know CA real well, and it is night, could he have thought he was in San Jose, or the county San Jose is in, Santa Clara? Or that he was in the Greater San Jose Metro Area? San Jose is the third largest city in CA.

Is Pleasanton/Sunol considered a satellite or suburb of San Jose, or more of Oakland?




Good work with the map stuff. The Sunol Regional park is pretty close to Pleasanton. Remember, the attack happened in two spots. The killer killed the mal victim quickly and then took the female to the park area, before shooting her in the back as she ran. If I recall, these two separate scenes were about 5 miles apart, and were pretty close to Pleasanton where Z sent multiple letters from. Its also straight across (when drawing a line on a map) from the area where Johns was attacked.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:54 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Pleasanton, near where the couple was murdered on 6/8/67, is about 35 minutes from San Jose. Looks like Sunol is even closer, maybe 25 minutes.

If Zodiac didn't know CA real well, and it is night, could he have thought he was in San Jose, or the county San Jose is in, Santa Clara? Or that he was in the Greater San Jose Metro Area? San Jose is the third largest city in CA.

Is Pleasanton/Sunol considered a satellite or suburb of San Jose, or more of Oakland?




Here is the official Sunol site:
http://www.ebparks.org/parks/sunol
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:06 pm

Sunol & Pleasanton are pretty close to each other. Approximately 15 minutes away. They are both in Alameda County. San Jose is much further down. It's in San Clara County.
San Jose is HUGE compared to Sunol & Pleasanton. Both Sunol & Pleasanton have been and still are nice communities. Sunol, is a fairly small town, has the Sunol Train. Pleasanton larger, very nice.
San Jose is Vast, an has it's good parts n bad parts. There is NO way someone could think Pleasanton was San Jose.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:11 pm

I would tend to think that Z knew the areas and back roads, since he appears to have done so much crusiong on back roads late at night. I still could see a scenario in which he travelled from town to town in the bay area for work, or for hobbies, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:13 pm

morf13 wrote:
I would tend to think that Z knew the areas and back roads, since he appears to have done so much crusiong on back roads late at night. I still could see a scenario in which he travelled from town to town in the bay area for work, or for hobbies, etc.

I totally agree Morf. Been to most these Z places, an I consider them all back roads.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:18 pm

Thnaks for the info.

In see that Sunol is 37 minutes from Oakland and about 30 from San Jose.

My thought is this: Zodiac killed people in Vallejo. But, perhaps wanting big city exposure and fame, he sent letters to the San Francisco Chronicle and later San Francisco Police Department because he thought - apparently correctly - that Vallejo would be considered part of the Greater San Francisco Metro Area.

If a person killed people in Sunol/Pleasanton, who would they sent a credit or threat letter to?

???

More likley to Oakland newspapers and/or Police Department, or San Jose newspapers and/or Police Department? Or somewhere else?
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:04 am

The fact that he knew the "back roads" well, as Zamantha has both indicated and verified really points to him being a "local", as opposed to an "import"...
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:58 am

Thanks for the info Zam, Zab, Morf.

I see that Sunol is 37 minutes from Oakland and about 30 from San Jose.

My thought is this: Zodiac killed people in Vallejo. But, perhaps wanting big city exposure and fame, he sent letters to the San Francisco Chronicle and later San Francisco Police Department because he thought - apparently correctly - that Vallejo would be considered part of the Greater San Francisco Metro Area.

If a person killed people in Sunol/Pleasanton, and they wanted big city exposure and fame, who would they sent a credit or threat letter to?

???

More likley to Oakland newspapers and/or Police Department, or San Jose newspapers and/or Police Department? Or somewhere else?


Last edited by AK Wilks on Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:58 am

Also, for all our members here who are also members at Zodiac Killer, Zodiac Killer Facts or other Zodiac or True Crime boards:

Please feel free to post these two documents below, along with some of the relevant comments, analysis and questions in this thread, at other sites.

I only mention this because I am very intrigued by this San Jose letter, and there are some good minds with lots of Z experience at ZK and ZKF, and perhaps someone would know something more about this or have a good idea.

I have sent in a FOIA request for this letter, and if and when I get it I will send it to other sites and post it here.

But I just thought I would let people know that we don't have a problem with letting other sites see this stuff below. The funny thing is it is right in the FBI files, but to my knowledge, nobody ever found it or brought it up before. Maybe some veteran Zodiac researcher found out this was a hoax or knows something about it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Following another lead from Solar Pons, I ran across something else in the Zodiac FBI files.

Did Zodiac send the San Jose Police a letter on 11/21/69?

Apparently Zodiac or someone claiming to be him did.

It starts "There's no doubt I will do my Thing!" and ends with a Zodiac symbol.

Zodiac mentioned San Jose in the disputed and unconfirmed 12/16/69 Fairfield "This state is in trouble" letter, and said he would kill "1" person there.

This letter mentions a "widow" in San Jose.

Does someone know of a recent murder case in San Jose that left someone a widow? Perhaps a San Jose area murder between 1966 to 1969 that left a woman a widow? Or a prominent widow of a famous person who lived in San Jose in 1969? The police were seemingly able to determine who it was, so perhaps it was a well known case or person.

Also, there was a short code on the letter.

The FBI Cryptography unit refers to a "- + 6 2 + -". Says that someone suggested it may mean "1620" but that they don't know.

Any ideas on what " - + 6 2 + - " could mean?

Also, very interesting, there is a "November = 8", and some analysis (based in part on a "postmark"?) that the "=" could mean "2", thus creating "November 28".

(On November 28, 1969, Betsy Aardsma was murdered in the Penn State library, an attack with many similarities to the Bates college library murder. Morf, myself and some others have investigated if the Aardsma murder could have been Zodiac. If "Zodiac" on 11/21/69 was mentioning 11/28/69, the date of the Aardsma murder, I find that interesting).

Does "November 28" have any other meaning to anyone, did a murder or interesting event happen on that day?

I have sent in a FOIA request for this letter and any related documents.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One interesting thing about this letter is that it was treated as likely being REAL.

Unlike every other letter I see in the file, they do NOT even ask for a handwriting exam on it. Weird.

And they put the mentioned "widow" under 24 hour police protection!

Was this letter sent in with something not mentioned, a bit of bloody shirt, or did it say something in the text that only Zodiac would know?

Or was a hoaxer able to dupe police? If so, how and why?

The surrounding circumstances lend some support to the fact that police thought this was a real Zodiac letter.

Also, it seems they first give the name of the widow and then her address, all redacted. Then just the name of the widow, redacted, but it looks as if it could be 5 to 8 letters long. At first I even thought of Mrs. Stine, but I believe she lived in San Francisco, not San Jose.




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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:30 pm

I just got a response letter from the FBI in regards to my FOIA request for the 1969 San Jose Zodiac letter, the 1971 "Monticello...In the woods dies April" Zodiac card, the July 1978 typed "tape" Zodiac letter and the 1981 Atlanta "Zodiac" letter.

The FBI did NOT check any objection boxes or note any objections such as privacy, open investigation, lost records or delay. They state they are searching the records.

So, good sign, hope we get something soon!
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:21 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
I just got a response letter from the FBI in regards to my FOIA request for the 1969 San Jose Zodiac letter, the 1971 "Monticello...In the woods dies April" Zodiac card, the July 1978 typed "tape" Zodiac letter and the 1981 Atlanta "Zodiac" letter.

The FBI did NOT check any objection boxes or note any objections such as privacy, open investigation, lost records or delay. They state they are searching the records.

So, good sign, hope we get something soon!

Great news. Looking forward to see what happens. By the way, did they ever send you any of the other stuff you requested? Seems like its taking a while.
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