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 San Jose Zodiac Letter?

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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:51 pm

Following another lead from Solar Pons, I ran across something else in the Zodiac FBI files.

Did Zodiac send the San Jose Police a letter on 11/21/69?

Apparently Zodiac or someone claiming to be him did.

It starts "There's no doubt I will do my Thing!" and ends with a Zodiac symbol.

Didn't Zodiac mention San Jose in the disputed 12/26/69 "This state is in trouble" letter?

The letter mentions a "widow" in San Jose.

Does someone know of a recent murder case in San Jose that left someone a widow? Or a prominent widow who lived in San Jose in 1969? The police were seemingly able to determine who it was, so perhaps it was a well known case or person.

Also, there was a short code on the letter.

Crypto unit refers to a "- + 6 2 + -". Says it might mean "1620" but that is not clear.

Any ideas on what " - + 6 2 + - " could mean?

Also, very interesting, there is a "November = 8", and some analysis (based in part on a "postmark"?) that the "=" could mean "2", thus creating "November 28".

On November 28, 1969, Betsy Aardsma was murdered in the Penn State library, an attack with many similarities to the Bates college library murder. Morf, myself and some others have investigated if the Aardsma murder could have been Zodiac.

If "Zodiac" on 11/21/69 was mentioning 11/28/69, the date of the Aardsma murder, I find that interesting.

Yes I am asking for this letter!




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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:02 pm

As you can see below, in the disputed 12/26/69 "Zodiac" letter from Fairfield, CA, there is a threat to kill ONE PERSON in "S.J.", which likely means San Jose. The SJPD apparently thought Zodiac in this 11/21/69 letter was threatening to kill one widow, and they took it seriously enough to put her under 24 hour surveillance. And there is no discussion of handwriting - they are treating this like it is the Zodiac and a real serious threat. Why?

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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:24 pm

Interesting AK...I can look to see if I can find any male murder victims from San Jose during the time before that.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:42 pm

I just finished and sent a FOIA request to the FBI:

1. San Jose Zodiac letter and envelope 11/21/69

2. Card with letters over pictures 7/13/71 "Monticello...In the woods dies April"

3. Zodiac letter and envelope Atlanta Child Murders 3/8/81 "Hello its me. Haven't you..."

4. Zodiac letter and envelope 7/19/78 sent from LA, "I am the Zodiac and I am in control...", mentions "tape".

There are some other letters, to Riverside PD and Cal DOJ, which I will do to them, as it doesn't seem the FBI has them, and some other documents and letters in Zodiac and Atlanta I want, but I started with these 3 that I want the most (and #4 because Foreigner and others requested it). The more requests you give them, the longer it takes.

Also, anyone can do a FOIA request. Just be polite and persistent, and willing to pay costs for copying, and be as complete as possible in your request. Try to inlcude FBI file numbers, FBI memo dates, postmark city and date of letters, opening line of letter and whatever else you have.

Send it to:

foiparequest@ic.fbi.gov

But first read all the info at:

http://foia.fbi.gov/requesting_records.html

You can ask Morf or me for help if needed.

I am still waiting for the 12/16/69 envelope, Leo card and some other items.

If anyone does a FOIA request, let us know what you are requesting, to avoid duplication of effort.

And be sure to post it here if and when you get something!

Also, I am still investigating procedures for making FOIA requests to SFPD, Cal DOJ and Riverside PD.


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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:49 pm

morf13 wrote:
Interesting AK...I can look to see if I can find any male murder victims from San Jose during the time before that.

Yes, good.

It seems the SJPD knew right away who the "widow" was likely to be.

So I am thinking it must be fairly recent to 11/21/69 - within a few months, or at most a year or two?

Also be alert to any cases with numbers, addresses or dates having "62", "1620" or "11/8" or "11/28"

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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:53 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Interesting AK...I can look to see if I can find any male murder victims from San Jose during the time before that.

Yes, good.

It seems the SJPD knew right away who the "widow" was likely to be.

So I am thinking it must be fairly recent to 11/21/69 - within a few months, or at most a year or two?

Also be alert to any cases with numbers, addresses or dates having "62", "1620" or "11/8" or "11/28"


So you think the "widow" may have lost her Husband a few months before the letter?
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:06 pm

Interesting! Can't wait to hear more about this.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:12 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Interesting AK...I can look to see if I can find any male murder victims from San Jose during the time before that.

Yes, good.

It seems the SJPD knew right away who the "widow" was likely to be.

So I am thinking it must be fairly recent to 11/21/69 - within a few months, or at most a year or two?

Also be alert to any cases with numbers, addresses or dates having "62", "1620" or "11/8" or "11/28"


So you think the "widow" may have lost her Husband a few months before the letter?

I don't know.

But the police seemed to know who he was talking about. My thought is:

1. Either it was the widow of a prominent man who lived in SJ, or
2. It was a murder that was fresh in their minds, with a few months to a few years prior, a murder that left some woman a widow.

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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:21 am

Of course two girls were killed in San Jose in August 1969, though a man eventually confessed to that crime.

And Rand found this - a girl killed in a suburb of San Jose around 10/20/69.

http://diva.sfsu.edu/bundles/190094

Morf or anyone - any luck on finding a man killed in San Jose or a well known widow there?

Anyone have any thoughts on what " - + 6 2 + -" or "November = 8" or "November 28" could mean?
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:17 am

AK Wilks wrote:
Of course two girls were killed in San Jose in August 1969, though a man eventually confessed to that crime.

And Rand found this - a girl killed in a suburb of San Jose around 10/20/69.

http://diva.sfsu.edu/bundles/190094

Morf or anyone - any luck on finding a man killed in San Jose or a well known widow there?

Anyone have any thoughts on what " - + 6 2 + -" or "November = 8" or "November 28" could mean?

I found one or two possibilities, but nothing overly Z-like. I will look thru again.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:08 am

Even if you don't find anything else, please post what you have. It may be right.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:02 pm

One interesting thing about this letter is that it was treated as REAL.

Unlike every other letter I see in the file, they do NOT even ask for a handwriting exam on it.

And they put the mentioned "widow" under 24 hour police protection!

Was this letter sent in with something not mentioned, a bit of bloody shirt, or did it say something in the text that only Zodiac would know?

Or was a hoaxer able to dupe police? If so, how and why?

The surrounding circumstances lend some serious support to the fact that police thought this was a real Zodiac letter.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:42 pm

Still looking for the articles I had come across of murder victims in San Jose area in 1969.

In the meantime, here is a case from 2 years prior regarding a Z-like crime, and the vitim's wife receiving crank calls.

I have previously posted about, that I stronlgly believe may be a 1967 Z attack. The male victim in this case was still married, but having an affair with the female victim who was recently divorced. Anyhow, the male victim's widow, as shown in this article, received calls AFTER the murders from a heavy breather (like the Ferrin case).



At the time of this 1967 murder, the male victim lived with his Family in Sunnyvale. Thats about 10-15 minutes from San Jose. Of course, I cant prove this was a Z crime, but this is Z-like, and the widow was receiving crank calls. Since the letter mentioning the widow from San Jose didnt come for 2 more years, perhaps this widow moved from Sunnyvale to San Jose? The widow's name was LYDIA RODRIGUEZ. Maybe someone like Foreigner could help see if she ever lived in San Jose.

She reported that there had also been calls previously, and both victims reported being followed by an unknown man in the weeks leading up to their murders. In addition, the female victim as well had received similar calls leading up to her murder. They would come in the morning around 10-11. Later Robert Graysmith would also report that he was getting a heavy breather calling frequently around 10-11 am.

This case is still being checked out by Alameda county sheriffs dept, and they promise me that they will be doing a ballistics comparison to the LHR bullets (pending bidget cuts and shortage of officers). My gut feeling is that this is a Z crime, and hopefully time will tell.

Sorry to go off topic a bit, but this so far is the only Z-like crime I can find , that has evidence of a victims widow being taunted. I will keep digging for other murders in the San Jose area that may have left a widow.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:53 pm

morf13 wrote:

At the time of this 1967 murder, the male victim lived with his Family in Sunnyvale. Thats about 10-15 minutes from San Jose. Of course, I cant prove this was a Z crime, but this is Z-like, and the widow was receiving crank calls. Since the letter mentioning the widow from San Jose didnt come for 2 more years, perhaps this widow moved from Sunnyvale to San Jose? The widow's name was LYDIA RODRIGUEZ. Maybe someone like Foreigner could help see if she ever lived in San Jose.

Well, lookey here...

Name: Lydia Rodriguez
Birth Date: ** *** 1933
Address: **** Chopin Ave
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip Code: 95122-1310



AND,

Name: Lydia M Rodriguez
Birth Date: * *** 1936
Address: **** Terilyn Ave, San Jose, CA, 95122-2375



Hmmmm, not even sure how to go about finding out if either of these are the male Victim's widow or not. There are actually a few women by that name that lived in San Jose, but since the male victim was born in 1930 aprox, i posted the two Lydias that were closest to his age.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:03 pm

Very Interesting!

Don't reveal the address of course, but do either of these addresses have a "62" in them or a "28"?

If this was the widow, this letter would continue the harassment.

Fits in with the letter to Mr. Bates, phone calls to the Ferrin's, card to Lass sister.

Interesting indeed...

I would still look for a 69 San Jose murder that left a woman a widow.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:08 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Very Interesting!

Don't reveal the address of course, but do either of these addresses have a "62" in them or a "28"?

If this was the widow, this letter would continue the harassment.

Fits in with the letter to Mr. Bates, phone calls to the Ferrin's, card to Lass sister.

Interesting indeed...

I would still look for a 69 San Jose murder that left a woman a widow.

2042 & 2755. As I said, there are a couple others too, but I think they are too young to be the right one.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:12 pm

AK Wilks wrote:




Regarding this FBI memo, what is the relevence of NOVEMBER? And the numbers that were INTERPRETED, what do you think they are, an address? Date?
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:23 pm

Just guessing, because we don't have most of the facts.

The "- + 6 2 + -" was analysed by someone (not the FBI) as perhaps meaning "1620". That seems like an address to me, be it "1620" or just something like "_ _ 6 2 _ _". Seems like a 2, 4 or 6 digit address? Any other ideas?

Then they say it says "November = 8", then they refer to a "postmark", and say it could mean "November 28", of course a date, and this letter was sent on November 21, 1969, and one week later, November 28, 1969 Betsy Aardsma was killed.

But in terms of looking for a San Jose area murder, perhaps one that left a widow, I would look for a "28" date, an "8" date, a November date. And also for a case that may have an address or other number associated with it with a "62", "1620", a "_ _ 6 2 _ _" or a "28". Just my ideas, based on the very little we know from this interesting letter and code.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:24 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
Very Interesting!

Don't reveal the address of course, but do either of these addresses have a "62" in them or a "28"?

If this was the widow, this letter would continue the harassment.

Fits in with the letter to Mr. Bates, phone calls to the Ferrin's, card to Lass sister.

Interesting indeed...

I would still look for a 69 San Jose murder that left a woman a widow.

2042 & 2755. As I said, there are a couple others too, but I think they are too young to be the right one.

Here are all the house numbers of women named LYDIA RODRIGUEZ that lived in SAN JOSE, that were close to the right age as the Victim's widow:

The first 3 are definitely all for the same woman:
2755, 135, 5233

The next are for a woman of same name, possibly a different woman or women:
51606, 2042, 1666,
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:27 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:




Regarding this FBI memo, what is the relevence of NOVEMBER? And the numbers that were INTERPRETED, what do you think they are, an address? Date?

Also notice, that when the Widow's name is first mentioned, it looks pretty long, maybe hyphenated? But then when it says her name a few word later, her last name is very short. Maybe her name was longer when she had her husband's last name, but she remarried?
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:37 pm

I had a different take on that. Though your idea is valid.

My thought was it first says the woman's first and last name and address, all blacked out, then "San Jose".

Then the next reference is to her as just Mrs. _______. Looks like a 6 to 8 letter name? I even wondered about Mrs. Stine but she lived in SF.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:43 pm

Okay, I think I may have found a possibility.

A widow wrote a letter to the editor of the Oakland Tribune on April 2,1969. She complained of the fact that her MURDERED HUSBAND's vehicle was impounded, and she was charged $$ to get it out.

What fits:
* Her husband was murdered
* She wrote a letter to the Oakland Tribune, which Z most likely read.

What doesnt fit:
*She was from Oakland, not San Jose

I am dead tired and before i go to sleep, i will try to post the article
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:53 pm

morf13 wrote:
Okay, I think I may have found a possibility.

A widow wrote a letter to the editor of the Oakland Tribune on April 2,1969. She complained of the fact that her MURDERED HUSBAND's vehicle was impounded, and she was charged $$ to get it out.

What fits:
* Her husband was murdered
* She wrote a letter to the Oakland Tribune, which Z most likely read.

What doesnt fit:
*She was from Oakland, not San Jose

I am dead tired and before i go to sleep, i will try to post the article

Here it is:


So her last name starts with an A, and her husband was murdered and found in his van the last November (November 1968). Might be possible to find out more details.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:57 pm

So she is saying her husband was killed in his truck in Oakland in November 1968? If you can find that article on that murder, you may be able to find her name and see if she moved to San Jose.
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PostSubject: Re: San Jose Zodiac Letter?   Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:15 am

AK Wilks wrote:
So she is saying her husband was killed in his truck in Oakland in November 1968? If you can find that article on that murder, you may be able to find her name and see if she moved to San Jose.

I just tore thru all of NOV & DEC 1968, and did not find any male murder victims found in a van.
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