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 "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971

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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:07 am

*
Fixed if for ya Tracers.

bentley wrote:
I believe our intrepid Ms. Tahoe27 is ahead of the curve on this idea and has previously posted additional information on the water supply angle.


Smile Ahead of the curve or too much time on my hands! Here is a link to the pump house connections:

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t228-the-pumping-station-lhr
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:21 am

Thanks very much Zam! Since SFPD can't find it, maybe SF Chronicle can. Thanks also to Sandy, Bentley, Tracers and Tahoe.

Since this card seems to be very similar in design to the PINES card, and based on other information I am aware of, I consider this APRIL WOODS card to be authentic.

On the SFPD chart all the letters are listed as "SUSPECTED" Zodiac communications, but I think every letter on there was confirmed by Cal DOJ and/or FBI as authentic or probable Zodiac letters, with the exception of one on there listed as NOT authentic. So based on this chart as well, I would say it confirms that the APRIL WOODS letter is a authentic/probable Zodiac letter.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SFPDDNA.html

I guess the bottom line is if you consider PINES legit, then APRIL WOODS is legit. We don't know how much handwriting is on the APRIL WOODS letter, but in my communications with LE they treat it as real and authentic, that is how I read the chart and other information leads me to think it real.

----------------------------

Zodiac says "NEAR Monticello..."

Since the PINES card came 6 months after the vanishing of Lass - a comfort zone (?) - does anyone know of a murder or vanishing in or around the general MONTICELLO area that happened within a few weeks/months of January 1971? This card arrived 7/13/71, so if we go back 6 months that takes us to January 1971. But perhaps we should consider October 1970 to March 1971 as a possible zone?
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tracers
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:28 am

Thanks, Ak, for explaining. I still find it odd that if SFPD believed the Card to be real, they would not have a copy of it handy and that Det. Jones would never have heard of it, but we know anything is possible when evidence or potential evidence sits around for decades and gets moved around. As for LE acting as if the letter is real/authentic, well yes and no. Yes, the letter exists or existed, as records indicate, and was considered a suspected Zodiac communication, so that may be the basis for LE treating the letter as real/authentic in their communications with you. That doesn't necessarily mean they confirmed it to be an actual Zodiac communication. I hope they send you the letter and perhaps are later willing to comment on their opinion of the card, though i know there is little chance of that latter happening.

Thanks to you and Morf got being so tenacious in your efforts to obtain these letters and cards!
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:40 am

Inspector Jones heard of it he has never seen it. SACRAMENTO pD and SD threw out the afraid letter in the ear ons case so nothing suprizes me. Hard to have 100% confirmation if there is little handwriting on it but this seems to match Pines card and based on all info I consider it real others may have some doubt. Thanks for the kind words I will keep trying with the police and Zam is trying the newspaper!
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:45 am

I will check with my contact within the DOJ to see if he has any info on this letter. By the way, the possibility that Z worked around the water pump stations is interesting. If that theory is correct, what type of employee, or business, would be having access to various water pump stations and equipment in various cities(and counties)?
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Theforeigner
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:54 pm

"NEAR MONTICELLO SHOUGHT VICTIMS 21...IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL"

A thought.

Maybe he wording in this card is more simple than we imagin, due to that the shown text possibly was taken out of contex. If we had the full text it might say somthing like´a threath, somthing like this f exs::

"If you dont bla bla bla, 2 girls I'v hidden in the woods, dies April 30th

or

"If you dont bla bla bla, a cupple livingin the woods, dies April 30th

etc etc...
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bentley
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:11 pm

Yes that could well be TF, particularly if as stated, this was a paste up made of words cut out of newspapers. Couldn't find the exact words for his intentions.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:01 pm

morf13 wrote:
I will check with my contact within the DOJ to see if he has any info on this letter. By the way, the possibility that Z worked around the water pump stations is interesting. If that theory is correct, what type of employee, or business, would be having access to various water pump stations and equipment in various cities(and counties)?
Yes Morf please check with Cal DOJ read the email I posted on the previous page the SFPD Homicide LT says they may have sent the card to another agency.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:09 pm

Email I got from SFPD Legal:

Dear Mr. Wilks:

I am attaching the response I received from Lt. Sainez of the Homicide Detail regarding your request:

"Hello Maureen,

I spoke with Inspector Jones regarding this request. He is processing it, however, he has to look through many boxes of documents related to this case to determine:

1) If we have the document (some documents were given to other agencies).


2) Determine why it has not been released yet (there may be a specific reason it has been withheld).

He will research this and forward his findings to you. He does not have a timeline to when this will be completed.

Lieutenant Hector Sainez
San Francisco Police Dept.
Homicide Detail

AK : So it may be that Cal DOJ has the 7/13/71 "Monticello...April...Woods" card, as it was sent to them for handwriting analysis and cryptography (image analysis). And it could be it was not released at the time as it pertained to a kidnapping? A vanished person with Zodiac making an active threat?

Thanks to Morf for checking with Cal DOJ to see if they have this 7/13/71 card, and to Zam and Sand for trying to check with Kevin Fagan and the SF Chron.

"Monticello" means "little mountain", so this could be a generic reference to a murder near a little mountain.

But I think more likely it does refer to the "Monticello" area mentioned by Sandy and others. And if that is true, it seems like we should be able to find a murder or disappearance of a female, age 13 to 35, somewhere near that Monticello area, sometime between say July 1970 and July 1971, with a most likely target period of November 1970 to March 1971.

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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:36 pm

Does anyone know if there were any murders or disappearances in Napa County beyween July 1970 and July 1971?
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Seagull
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:55 pm

AK go to this link-

http://www.countyofnapa.org/Pages/DepartmentForm.aspx?ekfrm=4294973029

It's a form to submit cold case tips. If you click on "Select A Cold Case" in the Crime Information section there is a drop down menu of the cold cases. There are no unsolved cases for 1971 or 1972. Not much information there at all about the individual cases but it's a starting point, I guess.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:35 pm

Thanks.

Right, there are no cases for 1970 or 1971.

So I am now thinking that the "Monticello" mentioned by Zodiac is probably NOT the sunken city near Lake Berryessa.

It could be he meant "little mountain", thus meaning a victim taken near a little mountain.

Or it could be a different "Monticello". Of course there is the Monticello in Virginia, but I think there is one in Utah, and there may be others. I am going to research that, hopefully others will too.

Without knowing all the writing on the cards, the images and other clues, it is hard to figure this out.

We need to see the whole card!
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Daniel Gillotti
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:46 pm

You guys are doing a great job. I hope we get a look at that card soon. It must have been important to the detectives by not revealing it to the public. If it’s lost, it would be a lost opportunity for discovering possible clues…

farao Daniel sunny
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TimeCop
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PostSubject: Bone at Berryessa   Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:58 pm

I read somewhere today that there was a FEMUR found near the Shepard Hartnel crime scene area at the lake. Can not find where I saw that though...but its online, saw it with my own eyes. It was an 1-5 victim.
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PostSubject: Re: "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971   Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:17 am

Yep, that was Roger Reese Kibbe, the I-5 Killer who was convicted for the 1977 murder of Lou Ellen Burleigh. Story here-

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/article_3cc17cc4-a1f6-11e0-a99e-001cc4c002e0.html

And a little something I did for another project, about Kibbe.

ROGER REECE KIBBE

Born: May 21, 1939 Currently serving life without possibility of parole at Pleasant Valley State Prison Coalinga, CA.

TIME: 1977 – 1986

RAISED: Kibbe was the oldest of three boys raised in Chula Vista, California. His father was in the Navy, drafted during WWII, after retiring in 1953 from the Navy he was employed by the postal service. Because of the fathers military service Kibbe was largely raised in his younger years by his mother who really didn't like him very much. His mother was a hospital nurse. He was physically and verbally abused by her. Kibbe was a stutterer. At 15 he was caught burying a box of women's clothing that he had stolen from clotheslines. These clothes had been cut in an unusual manner with medical scissors stolen from his mother. One of Kibbe's brothers became a police officer rising to a homicide detective. Kibbe was close to this brother and they would often talk about homicide cases even some of the murders that Kibbe was eventually charged with. The brother had no idea that Roger was a serial killer.

EDUCATION: Kibbe was a high school dropout in the 11th grade and was a poor student in reading and writing but excelled in mechanical engineering and shop work. As an adult he was skilled in the woodworking and welding trades. He was teased in school by the other kids, called dumbbell and chided for his stuttering. At some point in adulthood he took up skydiving and was accomplished at that.

IQ: Unknown, likely he had learning disabilities that were undiagnosed but he was not stupid.

VICTIM CLASS: The victims were generally motorists that Kibbe conned into pulling over or were already pulled over because of car trouble. They were mainly middle class but a prostitute or two were among the victims. They ranged in age from 17 – 29. Victims were strangled with their own clothing or stabbed. The common thread in all of the murders were the nonfunctional cutting of clothing.

Kibbe was tried, convicted and sentenced for one murder in 1991. Other murders that he was suspected of doing could not be tried for one reason or another mainly involving admissible evidence. He was sentenced to 25 years to life. He came up for parole in 2004 and was denied but when he came up for parole again in 2008 law enforcement was ready. He was charged with six more murders. Through plea bargaining he plead guilty to all of the murders in exchange for dropping the death penalty. Kibbe was only charged with murders where the dysfunctional cutting of clothing was apparent. They were more murders that he was suspected of committing.

NUMBERS: Convicted of 7 murders, suspected of many more.


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